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A week later, I am still crushed. The perspective of a mixed-race marriage and a loss of trust (1 Viewer)

Joe Bryant said:
As usual from Maurile. This. 

I think the degree to which this election was surprising represents how much of a bubble one lives in.  A third of my facebook feed thinks Trump is the Messiah. A third thinks he's the Anti Christ. And a third are like me and in the middle. For what it's worth, that was the exact same breakdown for Obama. It is what it is.

J
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MT for president. Deport Dodds. 

 
ilikedwight said:
To be fair, no one has run that wasn't completely owned by donors in a long time, so it was important for them to destroy Trump.

TOO BAD THEY FAILED.

Trump isn't a racist. Trump isn't a sexist. Trump isn't a bigot. Trump is our President and he is going to Make America Great Again.
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Perhaps, but he's also a vile human being with a long history of ####### others over for his own gain.  

 
ilikedwight said:
To be fair, no one has run that wasn't completely owned by donors in a long time, so it was important for them to destroy Trump.

TOO BAD THEY FAILED.

Trump isn't a racist. Trump isn't a sexist. Trump isn't a bigot. Trump is our President and he is going to Make America Great Again.
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Since he wont release his tax returns he don't know who owns him.

 
Joe Bryant said:
As usual from Maurile. This. 

I think the degree to which this election was surprising represents how much of a bubble one lives in.  A third of my facebook feed thinks Trump is the Messiah. A third thinks he's the Anti Christ. And a third are like me and in the middle. For what it's worth, that was the exact same breakdown for Obama. It is what it is.

J
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This attempts to normalize that which is not normal. Seeing a lot of that lately. Call the trump movement what you want but it is radical in every sense of the word. Ban Muslims? Grab #######? Default on us debt? Deport 11 million? Are you kidding yourself or me? The President he spent eight years ridiculing is giving him remedial presidenting lessons. It's madness, not normal. 

 
Jackstraw said:
This attempts to normalize that which is not normal. Seeing a lot of that lately. Call the trump movement what you want but it is radical in every sense of the word. Ban Muslims? Grab #######? Default on us debt? Deport 11 million? Are you kidding yourself or me? The President he spent eight years ridiculing is giving him remedial presidenting lessons. It's madness, not normal. 
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Trump never wanted to ban Muslims. His toughest stance was not allowing Muslims from areas known for breeding terrorism within the Muslim community into our country until we figured out how to vet them. You're actually lying when you say Trump said he wants to ban Muslims without including the context. My guess is you never knew the context and you were brainwashed by the media.

 
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ilikedwight said:
Trump never wanted to ban Muslims. His toughest stance was not allowing Muslims from areas known for breeding terrorism within the Muslim community into our country until we figured out how to vet them. You're actually lying when you say Trump wants to ban Muslims without including the context. My guess is you never knew the context and you were brainwashed by the media.
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Dude. 

 
Koya said:
Not disputing any of this.

All I know is a couple that I thought would be a good candidate (pun intended!) to be my children's god parents (children that will be mixed-race and Jewish) voted for and actively support a guy who has aligned himself with white-nationalism, Bannon, the KKK, pro-Nazi parties by direct association, putting them in the cabinet and his own rhetoric on the campaign trail.

How can I, in good conscience, expect them to understand and care for the needs of mixed-race, Jewish kids? When I say crushed, this is a very specific personal issue.  He was in my wedding party, a friend for 30 years.  And he supports a white-nationalist backed president without any understanding of what that means to people such as me, my wife, our future kids. 

As I said, crushed. Politics move forward.  Cutting against the very nature of my family's being is a different matter entirely.
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In terms of practical probability, in 2016 and beyond, do you think the kkk and white nationalist groups are a larger threat than terrorists to your children?  

 
TobiasFunke said:
Sure.  I mean personally, I think it's incredibly stupid for regular people to think they know more about what's best for the safety and security of the United States than national security officials on both sides of the aisle. And I think it's incredibly stupid that people think they know what a president does and does not do more than former presidents and chiefs of staff on both sides of the aisle.

But whatever, that's just one dumb-### guy's opinion.  That wasn't my point. 

My point was that you cannot pretend this is just another election and compare reactions to it to reactions to previous elections.  We're in uncharted territory here just based on the four items I listed.  This is different.  Maybe you think it's different in a good way, and you're entitled to your opinion on that.  But you're not entitled to ignore reality and pretend this is the same as any other presidential election of our lifetimes.  I gave you four huge, unprecedented differences, and we all know I could have easily given you forty more.
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What about the Generals and ICEish endorsements?

 
Pipes said:
Good point.  How do we know there is an actual increase or just an increase in reporting?  Regardless these idiots should be thrown in jail.
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I think advocating the jailing of the folks in the Southern Poverty Law Center is taking things too far. ;)

 
Koya, I just re-read your OP.  DO NOT HAVE KIDS NOW!!  You emotionally are not ready for them.  Children require parents who make rational decisions, which you do not do.  You are ready to deep six a relationship with friends, good friends over a vote.  I presume these people you've known for some time.  Know how they feel, have laughed with them, perhaps cried with them, discussed many issues with them.  They are very close friends.  Yet they voted differently then you...And now they are awful racists.  You didnt get a hint of this through the years, through the many many times you and your wife hung out with them.  Well let me tell you, through all those times and years, your eyes didn't lie.  They are good people.  Its the brain washing you've received through your education and perhaps your upbringing that led you to this.  You are afraid to believe what you've seen from these people who were potentially going to be first on the godparents list are good people because it is in direct conflict with the message you've learned through your education.  THEY ARE BAD!! Screams your indoctrination from education.  Yet I'm assuming your a good dude and a good judge of character and have not seen any of this from these people before this vote.  So you have a choice:  Believe what you've learned from your upbringing or believe what your own eyes have shown you from these people.  Simple as that.

My other suggestion is more of a question.  Have you ever been exposed to / read anything from conservative folks?  I have two sisters like you, both were liberal.  Now they are both Conservative.  They started to read people like Thomas Sowell and other conservative writers.  Listen to people like Dennis Prager  (Prager U).  I bet you've never been exposed to this type of thinking because you just don't get it on collage campuses.  I encourage you do expand your horizons, read/watch conservative authors and do not ruin your relationship with these good people over a vote.

 
boots11234 said:
Koya, I just re-read your OP.  DO NOT HAVE KIDS NOW!!  You emotionally are not ready for them.  Children require parents who make rational decisions, which you do not do.
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I'll let Koya answer the rest of your post, which I think has some merit, but you are way off base here.

I know him IRL and he's well educated, responsible, a good friend, and a successful entrepreneur.  Is he a lightweight drinker and a bit of a weirdo? Well yeah, but he'd be a really good Dad IMO. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
I'll let Koya answer the rest of your post, which I think has some merit, but you are way off base here.

I know him IRL and he's well educated, responsible, a good friend, and a successful entrepreneur.  Is he a lightweight drinker and a bit of a weirdo? Well yeah, but he'd be a really good Dad IMO. 
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DD  I can tell by his thoughtful post that he really is a good guy and I'm sorry he's feeling this pain but raising children is serious business.  He's ready to dump a relationship with folks who I'm assuming are very close friends.  Frankly if I found out I had a friend like Koya and thought this of me, I would definitely put space between me and him.  I'd think he's got some issues.  What if his kids have different beliefs then him?  How is he going to react?  This is an extreme position IMO.  I know he's well educated based on his confused state.  His world is upside down because of his indoctrination.  He wants to raise kids who think clearly, and he himself is not thinking clearly IMO based on this post.  

 
Joe Bryant said:
As usual from Maurile. This. 

I think the degree to which this election was surprising represents how much of a bubble one lives in.  A third of my facebook feed thinks Trump is the Messiah. A third thinks he's the Anti Christ. And a third are like me and in the middle. For what it's worth, that was the exact same breakdown for Obama. It is what it is.

J
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I find this comparison offensive. I really do.

We don't know what kind of President Trump will be. He may be a good one; I hope he is. But during his campaign he expressed racism, bigotry, and xenophobia in a manner that was disgraceful and unprecedented. Obama never did anything close to that (neither has any previous modern candidate for that matter.) Regardless of what kind of President Trump turns out to be, his campaign for the office deserves to be condemned. I don't care that he won, it still deserves condemnation.

 
boots11234 said:
DD  I can tell by his thoughtful post that he really is a good guy and I'm sorry he's feeling this pain but raising children is serious business.  He's ready to dump a relationship with folks who I'm assuming are very close friends.  Frankly if I found out I had a friend like Koya and thought this of me, I would definitely put space between me and him.  I'd think he's got some issues.  What if his kids have different beliefs then him?  How is he going to react?  This is an extreme position IMO.  I know he's well educated based on his confused state.  His world is upside down because of his indoctrination.  He wants to raise kids who think clearly, and he himself is not thinking clearly IMO based on this post.  
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Family > friends every time.  If someone doesn't accept my family for reasons of race or politics, they're not friends.

 
Eephus said:
Family > friends every time.  If someone doesn't accept my family for reasons of race or politics, they're not friends.
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How does voting for Trump mean you don't accept mixed children? Try not to hurt yourself while pulling an answer out of your ....

 
Completely reasonable behavior to turn your back on friends and family that voted for a candidate that you disagree with. I mean everybody knows that politics is like math. I mean everything is always clear cut and scientific. There is never any opinion or any doubt. Nope. I mean everybody with a brain knows for sure Hillary would have been better for this country. There is no grey area. 

My grandpa used to always say "Politics, religion, fashion, food, and greatest player of all time lists are the only clear cut topics in this world. Everything else is up for debate." 

 
ilikedwight said:
How does voting for Trump mean you don't accept mixed children? Try not to hurt yourself while pulling an answer out of your ....
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I've commented already in this thread that I disagree with Mrs. Eephus that Trump voters aren't necessarily racist,  But I respect her opinion that Trump's position on race drew a line that cannot be crossed by someone who's not racist.  I don't think white people can fully understand the basis for such an absolutist opinion but that's where we are right now in this country.

Koya's logic wasn't exactly linear but he apparently felt the same line had been crossed

 
Eephus said:
I've commented already in this thread that I disagree with Mrs. Eephus that Trump voters aren't necessarily racist,  But I respect her opinion that Trump's position on race drew a line that cannot be crossed by someone who's not racist.  I don't think white people can fully understand the basis for such an absolutist opinion but that's where we are right now in this country.

Koya's logic wasn't exactly linear but he apparently felt the same line had been crossed
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I don't think you should be commenting on what an entire group of people are capable of understanding or not understanding. Each person is an individual and they aren't defined by their skin or gender.

 
Eephus said:
Family > friends every time.  If someone doesn't accept my family for reasons of race or politics, they're not friends.
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Reading down?  There is no indication this was the issue. It was a vote. That's all. Can't believe you got some poverty likes over this post.  You all need play go and animals to pet.  

 
boots11234 said:
Reading down?  There is no indication this was the issue. It was a vote. That's all. Can't believe you got some poverty likes over this post.  You all need play go and animals to pet.  
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You ever read Koya?  I can't figure out his baseball posts and I know bases. 

He always gets spun up over something but he's a sharp guy with a good heart.  If he feels his family is being disrespected, his priorities are unequivocally correct.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
If there's one thing I've learned from living in Utah, as is verified by the responses in this thread, it's that there is no one that better understands how minorities should feel about stuff than a bunch of white people surrounded by other white people.
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10+ years experience in both Minnesota and eastern Kansas.  Confirm.

 
ilikedwight said:
Trump never wanted to ban Muslims. His toughest stance was not allowing Muslims from areas known for breeding terrorism within the Muslim community into our country until we figured out how to vet them. You're actually lying when you say Trump said he wants to ban Muslims without including the context. My guess is you never knew the context and you were brainwashed by the media.
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ilikedwight said:
Was that your weak attempt at trying to ridicule me because you can't argue against my point? I think it was
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It's pointless to argue against your "point" because you're operating with a different and frankly erroneous set of facts.

We have the most rigorous vetting process of any nation, it takes about a year on average for a refugee to get in here. Multiple different government agencies are involved in the process and they utilize #### like Biometric Scanning; the background checks are thorough. Not to mention the fact that we are taking in fewer refugees than anywhere else, 80% of which are woman and children. What more do you want? Our vetting process is already "extreme".

His definition of countries that have been compromised by terrorism has also been vague and ever-changing. There really is no context to draw from.

All of this combined with the fact that an adviser on Trump's transition team, Kris Kobach, has talked about how there are currently discussions of instating a Muslim registry to supplement  "extreme vetting" and it's clear as day that a ####storm of epic proportions is brewing on the right.

 
James Daulton said:
Joe, your like to post ratio is really bad.  @ClownCausedChaos2 would be horrified.  Time to step up your game my friend. 
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Oh my. @Joe Bryant, we need to talk.  Maybe I can provide tutoring on how to post in order to receive more likes.  Here's your first tip (which is free): Spend less time typing up daily email updates and more time posting videos of you leaping onto high walls.

 
Wait, is the real question "should I have kids?"

Don't do it Koya - I'd recommend getting some weed, coke, frequent sex, saving more money, a sports car that's fun for driving, & a vasectomy. Vacations without kids too :thumbup:

JK Koya, good luck with whatever you decide.

 
timschochet said:
I find this comparison offensive. I really do.

We don't know what kind of President Trump will be. He may be a good one; I hope he is. But during his campaign he expressed racism, bigotry, and xenophobia in a manner that was disgraceful and unprecedented. Obama never did anything close to that (neither has any previous modern candidate for that matter.) Regardless of what kind of President Trump turns out to be, his campaign for the office deserves to be condemned. I don't care that he won, it still deserves condemnation.
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Is there a manner that isn't disgraceful?  Unprecedented, I agree, but it's not unprecedented because he was breaching new territory/material.  It was unprecedented because he took on all the topics himself.  Usually what happens is a candidate latches on to the fear of black people, one latches on to the fear of Muslims, one latches onto the fear of the government etc.  They spread the wealth.  His hyperbole was completely over the top and he even went too far with that as well, but the topics are nothing new.

That said, your last sentence is refreshing (to me anyway).  You were very much a "by any means necessary" sort of guy early and I think you even acknowledged it.  I hope you now see that approach isn't the best way to go.

 
Koya said:
Whatever Andy.  This is my ####### thread, about how I am feeling and the real fear my wife and millions like us feel.

Want to just dismiss that, fine.  But the fact that you'd feel that way, yet still want to put out a flippant reply says more about you than it does about me. I'm just wearing my heart on my sleeve. Could not much care what the #### you all think about it.  

I wanted and needed to emote - good to see who at least can reach across, even if they differ in opinion, and have some shred of decency and compassion. Sorry that does not include you.  
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I genuinely am sorry that you are fearful of the situation. 

I'm not going to speak for Andy, but to some of us, the extreme fear some are expressing now is akin to fear that others were expressing when Obama was elected - it just seems unfounded.  There were some points in your OP that I agree with, but there were others that make me believe you have been watching a bit too much CNN.

The sun will still rise tomorrow.

 
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ilikedwight said:
What if we don't agree with your statements that Trump is a racist or a bigot and believe the media manipulated stupid people into thinking he was?
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I'd seriously question your judgememt. Not joking, the evidence of Trump's bigotry, fraud, mysogyny is there for all to see, and especially being in his hometown of NY, has been on public display for decades. 

Or you could just listen and watch his own words and actions over the last 18 months. There is no reasonable debate here.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
Wait, is the real question "should I have kids?"

Don't do it Koya - I'd recommend getting some weed, coke, frequent sex, saving more money, a sports car that's fun for driving, & a vasectomy. Vacations without kids too :thumbup:

JK Koya, good luck with whatever you decide.
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Brought me a smile, gb. thanks

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Yeah. Chet's argument strikes me as a fine argument the next time we attack a guy like Romney or even McCain or something (and I have a much lower opinion of McCain than most people).  Politics tends to make people exaggerate an opponent's flaws so we make "binders full of women" cracks when we knew that however much we wanted to appoint Supreme Court justices MItt Romney would have made a competent president.

People have to understand that this is different.  It's not just liberals who would have found it incomprehensible that the guy running Breitbart would get a senior White House conservatives a united government.  That is objectively frightening. 
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I agree with what you are saying but you have to admit it makes it easier for someone who was maybe on the fence to say: "well, they said the same thing and Bush and Romney and my beloved Reagan so maybe they are exaggerating this too."  We'll never know the impact but I can't imagine it was zero.

Look at it this way - people in the right called Obama and Clinton socialists which is absurd - then Bernie comes along and self-identifies as a Democratic Socialist.  Many people on the right who would never vote for either Clinton or Obama freaked out - hell Squish repeatedly said he was unelectable.  So imagine in 4 years if a real Socialist or close facsimile came along and people voted for him/her.  I could imagine a scenario where many smart people in the left (like yourself) would say there's no way I can vote for this person.  But it's guaranteed that there would be people who would say "you guys call all of our nominees socialist - I'm voting for them."

 
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