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Koya

A week later, I am still crushed. The perspective of a mixed-race marriage and a loss of trust

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7 minutes ago, Pipes said:

Good point.  How do we know there is an actual increase or just an increase in reporting?  Regardless these idiots should be thrown in jail.

 

Quote

 

WASHINGTON — The F.B.I. reported Monday that attacks against American Muslims surged last year, driving an overall increase in hate crime against all groups.

The data, which is the most comprehensive look at hate crime nationwide, expanded on previous findings by researchers and outside monitors, who have noted an alarming rise in some types of crimes tied to the vitriol of this year’s presidential campaign and the aftermath of terrorist attacks at home and abroad since 2015.

That trend appears to have spiked in just the last week, with civil rights groups and news organizations reporting dozens of verbal or physical assaults on minorities and others that appear to have been fueled by divisions over the election.

In its report on Monday, the F.B.I. cataloged a total of 5,818 hate crimes in 2015 — a rise of about 6 percent over the previous year — including assaults, bombings, threats, and property destruction against minorities, women, gays and others.

Attacks against Muslim Americans saw the biggest surge. There were 257 reports of assaults, attacks on mosques and other hate crimes against Muslims last year, a jump of about 67 percent over 2014. It was the highest total since 2001, when more than 480 attacks occurred in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks.

Attacks against transgender people also sharply increased.
 

Blacks were the most frequent victims of hate crimes based on race, while Jews were the most frequent victims based on religion, according to the F.B.I. data. But the increases in attacks on these groups were smaller than the rise in attacks against Muslims and transgender people.

Over all, 59 percent of the hate crimes that the F.B.I. recorded were based on the victims’ race, ethnicity or ancestry. Religious bias accounted for about 20 percent of all attacks, and about 18 percent of attacks were based on sexual orientation.

Law enforcement officials acknowledge that the statistics give an incomplete picture because many local agencies still have a spotty record of reporting hate crimes, 26 years after Congress directed the Justice Department to begin collecting the data.

“We need to do a better job of tracking and reporting hate crime to fully understand what is happening in our communities and how to stop it,” James B. Comey, the F.B.I. director, said Monday. The F.B.I. regards the prosecution of hate crimes under federal jurisdiction as the top priority of its civil rights branch.

Since the election, hate crime monitors like the Southern Poverty Law Center have reported a rash of verbal or physical abuse targeting minorities and others at schools, mosques and elsewhere.

Some supporters of President-elect Donald J. Trump, however, say they too have been victimized.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Ones that those recording it describe it as "anecdotal but not a fantasy". And AFTER they start looking for it?

Seems akin to realizing how many other people drive the car you just bought when you didn't recognize them at all before.

It doesn't excuse the idiots saying their idiotic things, of course. But like we see here, people say crazy things when they can hide behind their keyboards.

Exactly!!

The bottom line is when either side does stupid racist things it is not okay. One side does not have a corner on this market.

But when you have the MSM "looking" for incidents from one side (while completely not reporting any of the actions of the other side) you have what is akin to the 2001 Summer of Sharks all over again. You know the summer where the media made it seem that any body of water was just a death pool of hungry sharks waiting to kill and maim, but yet when it was all said and done, there were no more deaths and attacks than any other year. 

Some of you seriously need to just stop the fearmongering, turn off your damn TVs and work to make "your" own America great. 

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10 hours ago, Koya said:

I know there are a number of other threads. I don't give a ####.  I've remained mostly silent in the past week, digesting the events, understanding the calculus less of how we got here (that's fairly obvious to me, with plenty of blame to go around on both sides of the aisle).  But this morning I realized... a family who would have been at the top of my list as Godparents for my wife and I when we have children voted for Trump, and actively support him.  

And then I realized, this election went far further than politics.  It's not that I "won't be friends" with them anymore... but we obviously have hugely different views on the world. And they helped elect someone that has either actively called out and/or encouraged others to do the same while surrounding himself with others who do the same re: racism, anti-semitism, bigotry. Someone who admitted to sexually assaulting someone.  Someone who belittles those with disabilities.

But back to what really struck me... it's a week later and we see instances of hate cropping up with greater frequency than ever.  Boosted by a candidate and his supporters pushing white-nationalism and sowing the seeds of hatred and division.  As some here know, this all with my growing up the son of a Holocaust survivor who studied the rise of a man not unlike Trump in his stated beliefs and certainly approach and rhetoric.  Add to that the fact that my wife is part Latina, African American and Native American and I realize, these people literally support and helped elect someone who has put our lives and freedom, to some degree, in question.

As I stated on facebook, because i needed to emote and don't know where to go from here, on a personal level:

 

It's been a week since my country broke my heart. To know that nearly half of those who voted were 100% willing to support a clear bigot, racist, fraudulent conman is, honestly, scary. You may not (or may) be racist yourselves, but either way you are clearly ok with electing a President who is that, and by his own words and deeds, more. Someone who incites the worst human fears by tapping into the virulism of bigotry and division. I'm not looking to get into a back and forth on this post, it's just me emotive thoughts, I have no more energy than that. Just know that you have me thinking:

"How can I, someone in a mixed-race marriage, who wishes to have mixed-race children, ever fully trust a nation and those in it who helped elect and support someone who has purposefully singled people out by race, religion and ethnicity in the worst of ways?"

To those people, please understand that this rises above Politics. This is an affront to me, my wife, my future children. You have your reasons, I am sure. You can blame Hillary, the establishment, the lack of attention to the middle class... But please recognize and bear the responsibility for the choice to have helped make reality... an America that is less safe, less free, less equal than it was a week ago, with a direct impact on me, my family and our wellbeing. Even in the face of what some might have felt was a decision between the lesser of two evils, you chose the evil of inhumanity. In doing so, know that in all your adulation and celebration, you have done real harm to me, my family and millions like us who now are fearful of a nation that is supposed to be land of the free and home of the brave. I now question whether we are either, and moreso, what might it take to reclaim that banner?

Knowing there are those, even those close to me, who still support someone who is so clearly a bigoted racist, not to mention an admitted sexual assaulter, I honestly don't know if the bonds that have been frayed within me, bonds that extend decades in some case, can ever be truly rebuilt. After all, how could I feel safe letting my children be cared for by those who supported a bigot who has attacked their very ethnicity, encouraged others to discriminate and bully, someone who as of today is putting a white nationalist as his leading advisor?

It is a week later. I am still crushed. Not by the election, but the electorate, and especially those whom I thought shared a common ethos of decency, love and acceptance. How do we heal as a nation? We rebuild bonds, reinforce institutions, work together and find common ground. How do I heal as a human? I think to some degree, I never will. We can grow, we can learn, we can survive, evolve and thrive... but some lines, once crossed, can never again be whole. This election will forever be a demarcation whereby I recognized a lot more of this country stands against me and my family rather than for it. It is a week later. And I am still crushed.

 
 

 

What I don't like about your post is we are forced to accept your premise that Trump is x y and z just because you said it?

What if we don't agree with your statements that Trump is a racist or a bigot and believe the media manipulated stupid people into thinking he was?

 

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I think there is a bit of overreaction here. And Koya, I get how this affects you personally, but worrying about who will be the godparents of the hypothetical children you may have someday seems less than productive.

I understand the feelings of minorities and women about this election. My wife has been pretty despondent since last Tuesday. She just keeps telling me it's not about fear that something bad is going to happen; it's about the message. It's about the fact that such a large portion of this country apparently can overlook seemingly deep-rooted misogyny in the person they chose to be their leader. I would imagine minorities feel the same way. It's disappointing. But crying in our coffee isn't going to do anything about that. And maybe this is a good wake up call on many different levels. Maybe now is a good time to be active at the local level and work from within to fight for the causes you believe and and reassure our friends/neighbors/family that people do care and they aren't going to get left behind. 

I also can't understand breaking off friendships over who people voted for in this election. Obviously this is a pretty emotional time and it is easy to see the worst in people. After the election, people started coming out of the woodwork talking about the election - friends, neighbors, family members - and are now openly expressing their support of Trump and their excitement for his win. These are people I have known for a long time. These aren't bad people. I do think at a certain fundamental level, they were able to overlook racism and misogyny and xenophobia in their candidate and that is disappointing. But as many people have said in here, there are a lot of factors at play. We have one guy we're friends with, from suburban Philadelphia, who came out and is all excited that Trump one and his main reason was the second amendment - he doesn't own a gun. There are all kinds of random factors at play in why people did what they did. I can't imagine writing every person off because of how they voted.

I take my wife's family who lives in a small white town in the middle of nowhere and consumes their daily dose of Fox News and heaven knows what else on the internet. Big Trump supporters. They hear rhetoric and horror stories about the brown people in the big cities, to which they have never been, and from Trump himself comparing life there as being more dangerous than war-torn countries in the Middle East. And they get convinced that is really bad and OMG WHY AREN'T WE DOING ANYTHING????? They hear stories of all the black people killing each other and scamming them out of their hard earned dollars by having 13 kids and all the while the government gives them nothing. They watch the news regarding a terrorist attack on our soil, and having never interacted with a Muslim before in their lives, have no world view or point of reference that the people with the funny wraps on their heads don't want to just kill us all. The Mexicans are jumping fences and leaving a trail of rape and destruction in their wakes. And maybe it was my job to at least have a discussion with them and try to educate them - listen to their beliefs that have been mostly shaped from slanted media reports and try to offer a different perspective. And maybe I needed to do a better job explaining the them why I thought that a Trump presidency would be incredibly harmful to our republic. They may not have listened. But I think a common theme coming from this is that we need to stop viewing the other "side" as the enemy. I KNOW for a fact that my in-laws have no idea why people in this country would be this upset over the election results. They are probably watching the news right now thinking how ridiculous those cityfolk whiny crybabies are being. Maybe it was my job to help them understand that. 

I don't know. I'm rambling. But my mindset has been opposite of what Koya is expressing here. I am a bit angry. Maybe angry isn't the right word. I'm more disappointed. I'm disappointed in the collective us because we aren't as good as I thought we were. But I'm not really blaming any specific individuals. It's just more of this ethereal force out there that did something "bad". But I think what we all need to do is make sure we get through this Presidential term and fight to make sure that none of our deepest darkest fears don't come true about what could happen. We shouldn't be telling those close to us to go pound sand. Guess what? They are the same person you knew 9 days ago. Shunning them accomplishes exactly nothing and they aren't defined as a person by who they pulled the lever for last week. 

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2 hours ago, FreeBaGeL said:

If there's one thing I've learned from living in Utah, as is verified by the responses in this thread, it's that there is no one that better understands how minorities should feel about stuff than a bunch of white people surrounded by other white people.

Western Kansas. Can confirm. 

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5 minutes ago, ilikedwight said:

What I don't like about your post is we are forced to accept your premise that Trump is x y and z just because you said it?

What if we don't agree with your statements that Trump is a racist or a bigot and believe the media manipulated stupid people into thinking he was?

 

Then you are free to think Koya is an idiot. And you may choose to express said thought, or not, as you please. 

Oh, and other people are free to think their own thoughts about you and even President elect Trump.

They are free to articulate those thoughts too.

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Just now, msommer said:

Then you are free to think Koya is an idiot. And you may choose to express said thought, or not, as you please. 

Oh, and other people are free to think their own thoughts about you and even President elect Trump.

They are free to articulate those thoughts too.

Trump won though. I run the government now.

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Just now, ilikedwight said:

Trump won though. I run the government now.

That seems factually incorrect, unless your name is Obama

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I cannot believe how many cry babies are in this country. Did men cry like this in years past over election results?  I cannot imagine my father or grandfather acting anything like this. 

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3 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

I cannot believe how many cry babies are in this country. Did men cry like this in years past over election results?  I cannot imagine my father or grandfather acting anything like this. 

To be fair, no obvious ##### bag like Trump has ever been elected president. 

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1 hour ago, Joe Bryant said:

As usual from Maurile. This. 

I think the degree to which this election was surprising represents how much of a bubble one lives in.  A third of my facebook feed thinks Trump is the Messiah. A third thinks he's the Anti Christ. And a third are like me and in the middle. For what it's worth, that was the exact same breakdown for Obama. It is what it is.

J

MT for president. Deport Dodds. 

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1 minute ago, James Daulton said:

To be fair, no obvious ##### bag like Trump has ever been elected president. 

There have been but they were career politicians who said the right things. 

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1 minute ago, James Daulton said:

To be fair, no obvious ##### bag like Trump has ever been elected president. 

To be fair, no one has run that wasn't completely owned by donors in a long time, so it was important for them to destroy Trump.

TOO BAD THEY FAILED.

Trump isn't a racist. Trump isn't a sexist. Trump isn't a bigot. Trump is our President and he is going to Make America Great Again.

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1 minute ago, Nick Vermeil said:

MT for president. Deport Dodds. 

I'd like to go on a speaking tour with Dodds, we'd make :boatloads:

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1 minute ago, ilikedwight said:

To be fair, no one has run that wasn't completely owned by donors in a long time, so it was important for them to destroy Trump.

TOO BAD THEY FAILED.

Trump isn't a racist. Trump isn't a sexist. Trump isn't a bigot. Trump is our President and he is going to Make America Great Again.

Perhaps, but he's also a vile human being with a long history of ####### others over for his own gain.  

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Just now, James Daulton said:

Perhaps, but he's also a vile human being with a long history of ####### others over for his own gain.  

PDFTT

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4 minutes ago, Doctor Detroit said:

I'd like to go on a speaking tour with Dodds, we'd make :boatloads:

Do they sell beer? I'd buy a ticket. 

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8 minutes ago, ilikedwight said:

To be fair, no one has run that wasn't completely owned by donors in a long time, so it was important for them to destroy Trump.

TOO BAD THEY FAILED.

Trump isn't a racist. Trump isn't a sexist. Trump isn't a bigot. Trump is our President and he is going to Make America Great Again.

Since he wont release his tax returns he don't know who owns him.

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1 hour ago, Joe Bryant said:

As usual from Maurile. This. 

I think the degree to which this election was surprising represents how much of a bubble one lives in.  A third of my facebook feed thinks Trump is the Messiah. A third thinks he's the Anti Christ. And a third are like me and in the middle. For what it's worth, that was the exact same breakdown for Obama. It is what it is.

J

This attempts to normalize that which is not normal. Seeing a lot of that lately. Call the trump movement what you want but it is radical in every sense of the word. Ban Muslims? Grab #######? Default on us debt? Deport 11 million? Are you kidding yourself or me? The President he spent eight years ridiculing is giving him remedial presidenting lessons. It's madness, not normal. 

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8 minutes ago, Nick Vermeil said:
14 minutes ago, Doctor Detroit said:

I'd like to go on a speaking tour with Dodds, we'd make :boatloads:

Do they sell beer? I'd buy a ticket. 

Beer is free with the purchase of a ticket, and you should really come already drunk. 

I'll have my people talk to Dodds people to check schedules. 

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6 minutes ago, Jackstraw said:

This attempts to normalize that which is not normal. Seeing a lot of that lately. Call the trump movement what you want but it is radical in every sense of the word. Ban Muslims? Grab #######? Default on us debt? Deport 11 million? Are you kidding yourself or me? The President he spent eight years ridiculing is giving him remedial presidenting lessons. It's madness, not normal. 

Trump never wanted to ban Muslims. His toughest stance was not allowing Muslims from areas known for breeding terrorism within the Muslim community into our country until we figured out how to vet them. You're actually lying when you say Trump said he wants to ban Muslims without including the context. My guess is you never knew the context and you were brainwashed by the media.

 

Edited by ilikedwight
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Just now, ilikedwight said:

Trump never wanted to ban Muslims. His toughest stance was not allowing Muslims from areas known for breeding terrorism within the Muslim community into our country until we figured out how to vet them. You're actually lying when you say Trump wants to ban Muslims without including the context. My guess is you never knew the context and you were brainwashed by the media.

 

Dude. 

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10 hours ago, Koya said:

Not disputing any of this.

All I know is a couple that I thought would be a good candidate (pun intended!) to be my children's god parents (children that will be mixed-race and Jewish) voted for and actively support a guy who has aligned himself with white-nationalism, Bannon, the KKK, pro-Nazi parties by direct association, putting them in the cabinet and his own rhetoric on the campaign trail.

How can I, in good conscience, expect them to understand and care for the needs of mixed-race, Jewish kids? When I say crushed, this is a very specific personal issue.  He was in my wedding party, a friend for 30 years.  And he supports a white-nationalist backed president without any understanding of what that means to people such as me, my wife, our future kids. 

As I said, crushed. Politics move forward.  Cutting against the very nature of my family's being is a different matter entirely.

In terms of practical probability, in 2016 and beyond, do you think the kkk and white nationalist groups are a larger threat than terrorists to your children?  

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5 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

Sure.  I mean personally, I think it's incredibly stupid for regular people to think they know more about what's best for the safety and security of the United States than national security officials on both sides of the aisle. And I think it's incredibly stupid that people think they know what a president does and does not do more than former presidents and chiefs of staff on both sides of the aisle.

But whatever, that's just one dumb-### guy's opinion.  That wasn't my point. 

My point was that you cannot pretend this is just another election and compare reactions to it to reactions to previous elections.  We're in uncharted territory here just based on the four items I listed.  This is different.  Maybe you think it's different in a good way, and you're entitled to your opinion on that.  But you're not entitled to ignore reality and pretend this is the same as any other presidential election of our lifetimes.  I gave you four huge, unprecedented differences, and we all know I could have easily given you forty more.

What about the Generals and ICEish endorsements?

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1 minute ago, pizzatyme said:

What about the Generals and ICEish endorsements?

The loser generals? pfffft

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1 hour ago, Pipes said:

Good point.  How do we know there is an actual increase or just an increase in reporting?  Regardless these idiots should be thrown in jail.

I think advocating the jailing of the folks in the Southern Poverty Law Center is taking things too far.;)

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First sentence sounds like it could be the cstu welching thresd. 

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36 minutes ago, ilikedwight said:
37 minutes ago, Jackstraw said:

Dude. 

Was that your weak attempt at trying to ridicule me because you can't argue against my point? I think it was

Dude

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Koya, I just re-read your OP.  DO NOT HAVE KIDS NOW!!  You emotionally are not ready for them.  Children require parents who make rational decisions, which you do not do.  You are ready to deep six a relationship with friends, good friends over a vote.  I presume these people you've known for some time.  Know how they feel, have laughed with them, perhaps cried with them, discussed many issues with them.  They are very close friends.  Yet they voted differently then you...And now they are awful racists.  You didnt get a hint of this through the years, through the many many times you and your wife hung out with them.  Well let me tell you, through all those times and years, your eyes didn't lie.  They are good people.  Its the brain washing you've received through your education and perhaps your upbringing that led you to this.  You are afraid to believe what you've seen from these people who were potentially going to be first on the godparents list are good people because it is in direct conflict with the message you've learned through your education.  THEY ARE BAD!! Screams your indoctrination from education.  Yet I'm assuming your a good dude and a good judge of character and have not seen any of this from these people before this vote.  So you have a choice:  Believe what you've learned from your upbringing or believe what your own eyes have shown you from these people.  Simple as that.

My other suggestion is more of a question.  Have you ever been exposed to / read anything from conservative folks?  I have two sisters like you, both were liberal.  Now they are both Conservative.  They started to read people like Thomas Sowell and other conservative writers.  Listen to people like Dennis Prager  (Prager U).  I bet you've never been exposed to this type of thinking because you just don't get it on collage campuses.  I encourage you do expand your horizons, read/watch conservative authors and do not ruin your relationship with these good people over a vote.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

Koya, I just re-read your OP.  DO NOT HAVE KIDS NOW!!  You emotionally are not ready for them.  Children require parents who make rational decisions, which you do not do.

I'll let Koya answer the rest of your post, which I think has some merit, but you are way off base here.

I know him IRL and he's well educated, responsible, a good friend, and a successful entrepreneur.  Is he a lightweight drinker and a bit of a weirdo? Well yeah, but he'd be a really good Dad IMO. 

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Just now, Doctor Detroit said:

I'll let Koya answer the rest of your post, which I think has some merit, but you are way off base here.

I know him IRL and he's well educated, responsible, a good friend, and a successful entrepreneur.  Is he a lightweight drinker and a bit of a weirdo? Well yeah, but he'd be a really good Dad IMO. 

DD  I can tell by his thoughtful post that he really is a good guy and I'm sorry he's feeling this pain but raising children is serious business.  He's ready to dump a relationship with folks who I'm assuming are very close friends.  Frankly if I found out I had a friend like Koya and thought this of me, I would definitely put space between me and him.  I'd think he's got some issues.  What if his kids have different beliefs then him?  How is he going to react?  This is an extreme position IMO.  I know he's well educated based on his confused state.  His world is upside down because of his indoctrination.  He wants to raise kids who think clearly, and he himself is not thinking clearly IMO based on this post.  

 

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3 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

As usual from Maurile. This. 

I think the degree to which this election was surprising represents how much of a bubble one lives in.  A third of my facebook feed thinks Trump is the Messiah. A third thinks he's the Anti Christ. And a third are like me and in the middle. For what it's worth, that was the exact same breakdown for Obama. It is what it is.

J

I find this comparison offensive. I really do.

We don't know what kind of President Trump will be. He may be a good one; I hope he is. But during his campaign he expressed racism, bigotry, and xenophobia in a manner that was disgraceful and unprecedented. Obama never did anything close to that (neither has any previous modern candidate for that matter.) Regardless of what kind of President Trump turns out to be, his campaign for the office deserves to be condemned. I don't care that he won, it still deserves condemnation.

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28 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

DD  I can tell by his thoughtful post that he really is a good guy and I'm sorry he's feeling this pain but raising children is serious business.  He's ready to dump a relationship with folks who I'm assuming are very close friends.  Frankly if I found out I had a friend like Koya and thought this of me, I would definitely put space between me and him.  I'd think he's got some issues.  What if his kids have different beliefs then him?  How is he going to react?  This is an extreme position IMO.  I know he's well educated based on his confused state.  His world is upside down because of his indoctrination.  He wants to raise kids who think clearly, and he himself is not thinking clearly IMO based on this post.  

 

Family > friends every time.  If someone doesn't accept my family for reasons of race or politics, they're not friends.

 

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11 minutes ago, Eephus said:

Family > friends every time.  If someone doesn't accept my family for reasons of race or politics, they're not friends.

 

How does voting for Trump mean you don't accept mixed children? Try not to hurt yourself while pulling an answer out of your ....

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Completely reasonable behavior to turn your back on friends and family that voted for a candidate that you disagree with. I mean everybody knows that politics is like math. I mean everything is always clear cut and scientific. There is never any opinion or any doubt. Nope. I mean everybody with a brain knows for sure Hillary would have been better for this country. There is no grey area. 

My grandpa used to always say "Politics, religion, fashion, food, and greatest player of all time lists are the only clear cut topics in this world. Everything else is up for debate." 

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Just now, ilikedwight said:

How does voting for Trump mean you don't accept mixed children? Try not to hurt yourself while pulling an answer out of your ....

I've commented already in this thread that I disagree with Mrs. Eephus that Trump voters aren't necessarily racist,  But I respect her opinion that Trump's position on race drew a line that cannot be crossed by someone who's not racist.  I don't think white people can fully understand the basis for such an absolutist opinion but that's where we are right now in this country.

Koya's logic wasn't exactly linear but he apparently felt the same line had been crossed

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Just now, Eephus said:

I've commented already in this thread that I disagree with Mrs. Eephus that Trump voters aren't necessarily racist,  But I respect her opinion that Trump's position on race drew a line that cannot be crossed by someone who's not racist.  I don't think white people can fully understand the basis for such an absolutist opinion but that's where we are right now in this country.

Koya's logic wasn't exactly linear but he apparently felt the same line had been crossed

I don't think you should be commenting on what an entire group of people are capable of understanding or not understanding. Each person is an individual and they aren't defined by their skin or gender.

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2 minutes ago, ilikedwight said:

I don't think you should be commenting on what an entire group of people are capable of understanding or not understanding. Each person is an individual and they aren't defined by their skin or gender.

Sounds pretty racist

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27 minutes ago, Eephus said:

Family > friends every time.  If someone doesn't accept my family for reasons of race or politics, they're not friends.

 

Reading down?  There is no indication this was the issue. It was a vote. That's all. Can't believe you got some poverty likes over this post.  You all need play go and animals to pet.  

 

 

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Just now, boots11234 said:

Reading down?  There is no indication this was the issue. It was a vote. That's all. Can't believe you got some poverty likes over this post.  You all need play go and animals to pet.  

 

 

You ever read Koya?  I can't figure out his baseball posts and I know bases. 

He always gets spun up over something but he's a sharp guy with a good heart.  If he feels his family is being disrespected, his priorities are unequivocally correct.

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5 hours ago, FreeBaGeL said:

If there's one thing I've learned from living in Utah, as is verified by the responses in this thread, it's that there is no one that better understands how minorities should feel about stuff than a bunch of white people surrounded by other white people.

10+ years experience in both Minnesota and eastern Kansas.  Confirm.

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2 hours ago, ilikedwight said:

Trump never wanted to ban Muslims. His toughest stance was not allowing Muslims from areas known for breeding terrorism within the Muslim community into our country until we figured out how to vet them. You're actually lying when you say Trump said he wants to ban Muslims without including the context. My guess is you never knew the context and you were brainwashed by the media.

 

 

2 hours ago, ilikedwight said:

Was that your weak attempt at trying to ridicule me because you can't argue against my point? I think it was

It's pointless to argue against your "point" because you're operating with a different and frankly erroneous set of facts.

We have the most rigorous vetting process of any nation, it takes about a year on average for a refugee to get in here. Multiple different government agencies are involved in the process and they utilize #### like Biometric Scanning; the background checks are thorough. Not to mention the fact that we are taking in fewer refugees than anywhere else, 80% of which are woman and children. What more do you want? Our vetting process is already "extreme".

His definition of countries that have been compromised by terrorism has also been vague and ever-changing. There really is no context to draw from.

All of this combined with the fact that an adviser on Trump's transition team, Kris Kobach, has talked about how there are currently discussions of instating a Muslim registry to supplement  "extreme vetting" and it's clear as day that a ####storm of epic proportions is brewing on the right.

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8 hours ago, James Daulton said:

Joe, your like to post ratio is really bad.  @ClownCausedChaos2 would be horrified.  Time to step up your game my friend. 

Oh my. @Joe Bryant, we need to talk.  Maybe I can provide tutoring on how to post in order to receive more likes.  Here's your first tip (which is free): Spend less time typing up daily email updates and more time posting videos of you leaping onto high walls.

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5 hours ago, Doctor Detroit said:

"poverty likes" :lmao:

Here you go, here's one for you too.

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