Am I (we) the problem (AITA) - advice from the collective wisdom of the FFA (1 Viewer)

[Slumpbusters]

Long time member, very rare poster, but I read what people write and generally respect the anonymous collective wisdom of the FFA, and would like your thoughts. I'll try to keep it succinct.

My Brother is five years younger than me (mid-40s). We had a good but distant relationship just due to life circumstances. (hadn't lived in the same state from 1993 to 2019). He is married and moved to our area fall of 2019 since his wife is pregnant to be close to family. We get along well and he is a quirky but great guy.

Covid hits, we are fine 2019 and 2020. However, once vaccinated in 2021 we want to get back together with everyone and start having normal family dinners, etc. He and his wife balk because of the baby (who is 1.5 at this point and unvaccinated). This also causes my parents to balk and they want to continue 6ft and zoom "get-togethers" which my wife and I deem ridiculous at that point.

This led to some harsh words between my wife and his wife. There was a leaving of a Facebook group text, a bad 5-minute phone call, and then around 4 bad texts back and forth, then silence for a year.

Last Thanksgiving we attempted to reconcile and get everyone together, at which point my brother announced his separation and pending divorce. We think "Okay, sad about divorce but one less problem".

Divorce is finalized in the spring of this year. They sell the house, now live in 2 separate houses a few blocks from each other, and share custody of 3 year old. This is also fine.

The problem is now his ex-wife wants to be involved in all of our family events. All birthdays, etc. Her vision (and he says his vision too) is that we are all just one big happy family regardless. Meanwhile, after some advice and a fair amount of research, my wife and I are convinced she has narcissistic personality disorder. She refuses to apologize for any past actions or words and just wants to blow things under the rug and pretend everything is fine. My brother's divorce agreement states that he is obligated to spend Thanksgiving and Christmas together with her and their daughter, so now the family is split on those holidays because my now elderly parents have to decide between my family and his as we refuse to get together with ex-wife without a clearing of the air and sincere apologies all around. Even still I feel weird about it because she is now his ex and I feel like she has exited the family so she's responsible for herself.

I feel pressure because this is the first real interpersonal conflict in my small family pretty much ever (my wife and I have been married 21 years) and my parents are sad about it.

So bottom line - are we the "a-holes"? Any sanity check would be appreciated.

 

[ChiefD]

The truth is always in the middle.

Moving forward, my advice is always take the high road. Accommodate her and don't engage when things get dicey.

Just know that things are different now and everyone has to adjust, but how YOU respond and how your side of the family acts are things that you all can control. I've dealt with this in my family for years in varying degrees and I've learned the less I say and the more I have grace the better things are.

Show love to your family and all will be fine.

 

[Zow]

Divorce attorney here. I see these "joint holidays/birthdays" terms often in an initial agreement/orders. I then almost without fail see them change, usually by mutual agreement, one to a few years later.

My point is saying this is that I am willing to bet this is a short term setup. As such, if I were in your shoes, I'd just plug my nose and deal with it for a couple of years.

 

[ChiefD]

I will also add: don't expect apologies to "clear the air". I've learned that forgive and forget works in a lot of cases.

 

[Jayrod]

I think you are holding a reasonable position, but also have the power to forgive and make a reconciliation happen.

I guess it is up to you, but I would allow for the group gatherings on holidays, but you don't have to engage her directly or carry on outside of those galleries.

Forgiveness is more about you than her and you will find incredible relief at forgiving her despite her never apologizing. We had a very recent thread started by Joe Bryant on that exact topic and I shared a personal story in there that is somewhat relevant. Long story short, I forgave someone who had wronged me (wrote a letter to him) and the next time I saw him years later I was totally calm about it and we were cordial and it didn't bother me at all. Had I not forgiven him, I would have had a lot of unresolved issues come up and it would have bothered me for days.

Good luck and sorry things have gotten to this point, but such is life with other humans.

 

[massraider]

I would put up with quite a bit to have a relationship with my brother and his child. It's not worth giving that up because you didn't get an apology. Don't be petty.

Being polite to someone you don't care for at the holidays? That's most people!

Maybe not an @******, but yeah, it's not them, it's you.

 

[massraider]

Nice. I tried to circumvent the language filter, and accidentally summoned a FBG.

 

[Psychopav]

I agree with @massraider . These comments reveal that you bear at least some (most?) of the blame here. Your brother has a problem, don't make it your problem.

...my wife and I are convinced she has narcissistic personality disorder...

...we refuse to get together with ex-wife without a clearing of the air and sincere apologies all around...

I appreciate your loyalty to your brother, but your thin skin is making his problems into your problems. It's not your job to analyze, fix, or punish anyone. Your brother has enough problems in this situation, and your posture is only helping to maintain the drama imo. To what end?

 

[Don Quixote]

We kept things pretty socially distanced until my son was vaccinated too, and know lots of people who did. Every single member of my family said no more than say to do what you are comfortable with, and never tried forcing us to do something that we were not comfortable with. If someone tried convincing us to do more than comfortable with, I’d probably tell them to mind their own business and tell them to screw off, which it sounds like is what his ex-wife did. I would not blame his ex-wife for your parents then balking — they are adults and can make their own decisions.

 

[fruity pebbles]

I’m in the it’s you camp as well. You guys throwing a fit because they didn’t want to get together in 2021 with a one year old and holding a grudge since then is pretty petty and uncool imo.

 

[Chemical X]

Your brother’s agreement says holidays with daughter and ex, it doesn’t say you have to. she is not your family nor your issue. Let him spend time with them and invite him and his daughter only. She ain’t your problem. If it doesn’t work, oh well. I’m not having my holidays ruined for non family.

 

[General Malaise]

Divorce attorney here. I see these "joint holidays/birthdays" terms often in an initial agreement/orders. I then almost without fail see them change, usually by mutual agreement, one to a few years later.

My point is saying this is that I am willing to bet this is a short term setup. As such, if I were in your shoes, I'd just plug my nose and deal with it for a couple of years.

Yeah, this is good stuff. Just roll with it for now because as Zow says, this is likely not going to last after a few efforts. The ex-wife will feel the uncomfortableness as will your brother, even if you and your family do your level best to pretend all is well for the sake of your kids. The most important takeaway for me - far more than getting an apology - is the age of your parents. Time is the one commodity you can't replenish or trade-in and your parents are in far less supply of time than you or your brother or the kids so try and put things in perspective for them. If that means you have to suck it up and be the bigger person (and I'm fairly certain your wife has a stronger opinion on this than you, so that's an issue) for the benefit of your parents and your kids, you do it.

 

[Zow]

I will also add: don't expect apologies to "clear the air". I've learned that forgive and forget works in a lot of cases.

Yep. I have a sister-in-law with some really positive attributes (specifically, a niece and nephew and a husband I'm very close to) and she brings a lot to the table for family get-togethers (both literally and figuratively) but she will never, ever give a sincere apology to anything she's done. It's just not in her nature nor who she is. This has posed a challenge because both my wife and I separately and at various points I've considered significantly reducing contact because not only would she not apologize for doing things that she should apologize for, but that she actively changes the narrative amongst the family so that she's right and the other person is wrong.

Over time, though, we've realized two things: 1) Everybody knows and has experienced what she does so her refusing to apologize and spin the narrative doesn't really hurt us; and 2) She still offers more pros than cons so we just gotta not let her refusal to apologize go.

 

[Wildcat]

I would just wait until your brother finds a new serious relationship and then I doubt he will want his ex-wife involved in family gatherings, except of course for their own kid's birthdays and special events. Basically, wait until that happens and let him deal with it, because I could almost guarantee it will end.

 

[Drunken knight]

Your brother’s agreement says holidays with daughter and ex, it doesn’t say you have to. she is not your family nor your issue. Let him spend time with them and invite him and his daughter only. She ain’t your problem. If it doesn’t work, oh well. I’m not having my holidays ruined for non family.

 

[belljr]

I will be succinct f her

 

[Nick Vermeil]

Definetly offer to be her partner for charades and then tank.

 

[jobarules]

NTA (btw I love this subreddit)

The ex-wife sounds like a nut bag but what's wrong with splitting holidays? Parents spend time with your brother and ex-wife family on Thanksgiving and with you and your family on XMas?

 

[3C's]

Nice. I tried to circumvent the language filter, and accidentally summoned a FBG.

Last seen 2004. Would be hilarious if "he" comes back now.

 

[Slumpbusters]

Wow I did some work and got some lunch and got a ton of thoughtful replies. Thanks to all of you. Its cathartic to air some of this stuff out.

Couple of clarifications -

I'm the one that called off the get togethers around covid. Their fear and wanting to stay at 6 feet were a pretty big trigger for me. This is the one thing I wish I would have done differently. I fully believe in the vaccination and avoidance if any symptoms were present but outside of that by the end of 21 we were full blast.

After the wives had a tiff, my wife attempted reconciliation around 4 times throughout the year, culminating in last Thanksgiving, to be rebutted all four times. For many reasons for my wife, unresolved conflict is like nails on a chalkboard for her (mostly relating to a traumatic childhood), so she talks everything out. This is one reason our marriage has been successful for 21 years. Plugging the nose isn't really an option for her, and is barely for me.

My relationship with my brother and his daughter hasn't overtly suffered. He brought her to my son's birthday, my birthday, last Thanksgiving, pumpkin carving, etc. Things are great when it is just him and his daughter. We have a nice time, don't mention his ex, and don't post any photos on social media out of respect for her. This bothers his ex wife anyway when it happens though as she feels left out.

Get togethers with her prior to all this weren't awesome. She was perpetually 30-45 min late, often moody and snippy, and would at times gaslight my wife. She later started her own company and refers to herself openly and often as "CEO" and as a "keynote speaker". When they bought their first house she hired help to switch out the light switch covers in their house. Talks about having a personal tailor and shopper, and how she "hates staying at subpar hotels" like the Westin. She only rides uber black. She is massively charming to new people but has relatively new money and success and flaunts it openly. She's moderately successful, not the level that she should "only be doing uber black". This further gaslighted my wife as she made the choice to retire in 2017 to support our family and my career got to a point where we didn't need her to work. The values are totally opposite.

We just overlooked all this until the divorce and finally decided it was no longer our problem.

We encourage my mom and dad to have a relationship with her but to just leave us out of it.

My opinion of this is it is a problem 3 days/year - Thanksgiving, Christmas, and his daughter's birthday. We told them to spend Thanksgiving with my brother and celebrate a different day with us, we will do Christmas Eve as opposed to Christmas (with my brother and his daughter included) and at a minimum I will go to his daughter's birthday to support him and because we love his daughter.

Outside of all that I just learned today she has a new boyfriend, which I feel makes this even less of my problem. We hold no ill will toward her and want her to be successful and happy, just at a respectful distance as together it would be awkward and likely not end well.

Thanks again for all the great replies!

 

[Zow]

Wow I did some work and got some lunch and got a ton of thoughtful replies. Thanks to all of you. Its cathartic to air some of this stuff out.

Couple of clarifications -

I'm the one that called off the get togethers around covid. Their fear and wanting to stay at 6 feet were a pretty big trigger for me. This is the one thing I wish I would have done differently. I fully believe in the vaccination and avoidance if any symptoms were present but outside of that by the end of 21 we were full blast.

After the wives had a tiff, my wife attempted reconciliation around 4 times throughout the year, culminating in last Thanksgiving, to be rebutted all four times. For many reasons for my wife, unresolved conflict is like nails on a chalkboard for her (mostly relating to a traumatic childhood), so she talks everything out. This is one reason our marriage has been successful for 21 years. Plugging the nose isn't really an option for her, and is barely for me.

My relationship with my brother and his daughter hasn't overtly suffered. He brought her to my son's birthday, my birthday, last Thanksgiving, pumpkin carving, etc. Things are great when it is just him and his daughter. We have a nice time, don't mention his ex, and don't post any photos on social media out of respect for her. This bothers his ex wife anyway when it happens though as she feels left out.

Get togethers with her prior to all this weren't awesome. She was perpetually 30-45 min late, often moody and snippy, and would at times gaslight my wife. She later started her own company and refers to herself openly and often as "CEO" and as a "keynote speaker". When they bought their first house she hired help to switch out the light switch covers in their house. Talks about having a personal tailor and shopper, and how she "hates staying at subpar hotels" like the Westin. She only rides uber black. She is massively charming to new people but has relatively new money and success and flaunts it openly. She's moderately successful, not the level that she should "only be doing uber black". This further gaslighted my wife as she made the choice to retire in 2017 to support our family and my career got to a point where we didn't need her to work. The values are totally opposite.

We just overlooked all this until the divorce and finally decided it was no longer our problem.

We encourage my mom and dad to have a relationship with her but to just leave us out of it.

My opinion of this is it is a problem 3 days/year - Thanksgiving, Christmas, and his daughter's birthday. We told them to spend Thanksgiving with my brother and celebrate a different day with us, we will do Christmas Eve as opposed to Christmas (with my brother and his daughter included) and at a minimum I will go to his daughter's birthday to support him and because we love his daughter.

Outside of all that I just learned today she has a new boyfriend, which I feel makes this even less of my problem. We hold no ill will toward her and want her to be successful and happy, just at a respectful distance as together it would be awkward and likely not end well.

Thanks again for all the great replies!

I appreciate the thought you're putting into this and you seem genuine and you had some decent positions, but the bold seems a bit extreme to me. You really can't handle being around your niece's mother for a few hours maximum three times per year?? I mean, to use your phrase, seeing a pseudo-family member 3x/year seems like a "respectful distance."

Just ignore her. I'm willing to bet we all have family members that many of us just choose to ignore on holiday gatherings without issue. The fact you can't does suggest, to an extent and as it applies to the current situation, that you and your wife are the assholes.

ETA: Also, the mere fact somebody wanted to keep a six-foot distance from you is an actual "trigger" for you? WTF?? Seems like you're way too overly sensitive here.

 

[Slumpbusters]

I don't disagree with it seeming extreme. The problem is the family is super small the get-togethers are literally my mom, dad, me, wife, brother, would be ex wife, my son, his daughter. My mom and dad aren't huge talkers, nor is my brother. Its pretty damn quiet if my wife and his ex aren't talking.

Thats a total of 8 people one of whom (my son) is a teenager that doesn't participate much under normal circumstances. In a crowd that small its hard to ignore someone. I'd totally agree with you if we had a big family and it was a 15+ person group.

In reply to your edit. If you are vaccinated and healthy, and someone treats you like you have the cooties at a get together, the preference is just not to get together. Mind you this is late 21 when things were getting back to normal, not 2020 when all hell was still broken loose. I actually agree that I could have handled this alot better. I did try to highlight this as the root of the issue to all involved and apologized (even though I'm like 60/40 on it) but was pretty much shot down by the ex. Rest of family moved on no problem but by then other damage had been done by conversation, text as previously mentioned.

 

[Don Quixote]

I'm the one that called off the get togethers around covid. Their fear and wanting to stay at 6 feet were a pretty big trigger for me. This is the one thing I wish I would have done differently. I fully believe in the vaccination and avoidance if any symptoms were present but outside of that by the end of 21 we were full blast.

Not everyone was “full blast.” To the ex-wife’s point, kids were not vaccinated. This is a bit of a trigger for me too, as a lot of folks acted like things were hunky dory and back to normal, but kids were not taken care of yet.

 

[Slumpbusters]

I'm the one that called off the get togethers around covid. Their fear and wanting to stay at 6 feet were a pretty big trigger for me. This is the one thing I wish I would have done differently. I fully believe in the vaccination and avoidance if any symptoms were present but outside of that by the end of 21 we were full blast.

Not everyone was “full blast.” To the ex-wife’s point, kids were not vaccinated. This is a bit of a trigger for me too, as a lot of folks acted like things were hunky dory and back to normal, but kids were not taken care of yet.

Thats fair and the one thing in hindsight years later that I regret significantly as if I was cooler about it all of this may have been avoided.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

we refuse to get together with ex-wife without a clearing of the air and sincere apologies all around.

Will it really change anything if she apologizes or not? Just deal with her being around during the few times a year you need to - you don't actually need to engage her other than to say "hello".

 

[massraider]

we refuse to get together with ex-wife without a clearing of the air and sincere apologies all around.

Will it really change anything if she apologizes or not? Just deal with her being around during the few times a year you need to - you don't actually need to engage her other than to say "hello".

No, she sucks.

An apology isn't going to change her personality.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

She later started her own company and refers to herself openly and often as "CEO"

almost everyone that owns a small company is and calls themselves the CEO of the company.

 

[Slumpbusters]

When you say un-vaxxed, covid only or mumphs, polio, measles, cpox? cause that sh1t don’t fly. and i’d love to argue some non covid vax stuff with someone that is vaxxed for literally everything else.

At that point in time the Covid Vaccination wasn't approved for kids under 5. In general our family is on board with vaccination and follows all the recommendations.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

we refuse to get together with ex-wife without a clearing of the air and sincere apologies all around.

Will it really change anything if she apologizes or not? Just deal with her being around during the few times a year you need to - you don't actually need to engage her other than to say "hello".

No, she sucks.

An apology isn't going to change her personality.

I don't think that's where I was going with my question.

 

[Jaysus]

YTA

 

[Dezbelief]

It's complicated, family always is. As the mother of your niece the ex is in your family tree now. Don't make your parents celebrate Thanksgiving twice. Enjoy time with your brother and your niece. Don't let the ex continue to estrange them from you.

 

[massraider]

We hold no ill will toward her

Guy you spent a paragraph describing in detail how you don't like the way she spends her money.

 

[Slumpbusters]

We hold no ill will toward her

Guy you spent a paragraph describing in detail how you don't like the way she spends her money.

Mostly this was an attempt helping people understand why we think she may be a narcissist. It was a sample of much I could put in there. That being said while I think all of that is ridiculous, that doesn't mean I have any ill will toward her. I wish her all the success and happiness life has to offer and if she wants to blow her cash that's her prerogative.

 

[Zow]

I don't disagree with it seeming extreme. The problem is the family is super small the get-togethers are literally my mom, dad, me, wife, brother, would be ex wife, my son, his daughter. My mom and dad aren't huge talkers, nor is my brother. Its pretty damn quiet if my wife and his ex aren't talking.

Thats a total of 8 people one of whom (my son) is a teenager that doesn't participate much under normal circumstances. In a crowd that small its hard to ignore someone. I'd totally agree with you if we had a big family and it was a 15+ person group.

In reply to your edit. If you are vaccinated and healthy, and someone treats you like you have the cooties at a get together, the preference is just not to get together. Mind you this is late 21 when things were getting back to normal, not 2020 when all hell was still broken loose. I actually agree that I could have handled this alot better. I did try to highlight this as the root of the issue to all involved and apologized (even though I'm like 60/40 on it) but was pretty much shot down by the ex. Rest of family moved on no problem but by then other damage had been done by conversation, text as previously mentioned.

You guys just need to get over things better. Respectfully, you sound like you're in middle school. Just suck it up and spend a few hours with somebody you don't like for the benefit of the family.

 

[Zow]

We hold no ill will toward her

Guy you spent a paragraph describing in detail how you don't like the way she spends her money.

Mostly this was an attempt helping people understand why we think she may be a narcissist. It was a sample of much I could put in there. That being said while I think all of that is ridiculous, that doesn't mean I have any ill will toward her. I wish her all the success and happiness life has to offer and if she wants to blow her cash that's her prerogative.

Based on your comments and positions in this thread, she probably very much thinks the same of you and your wife.

 

[Instinctive]

At the end of the day, here's what I took away:

1. She sucks
2. Because she sucks, you aren't doing what you'd prefer to do and spending time with your family

Only you can decide if her suckiness is too high a cost to pay to spend time with family.

 

[bigbottom]

Just some random thoughts that came to mind:

1) Apologize without expecting an apology.

2) Let go of past grievances.

3) Embrace the blessings of being together as a family.

4) Your brother’s ex is the mother of your niece. So she is indeed part of your family.

5) Trying to figure out who is right and who is wrong is an entirely unproductive endeavor.

6) If your brother’s ex wants to ignore the past and just be one big happy family, indulge her. The result is that you get to spend time together as a family. Win - win.

 

[Slumpbusters]

Thanks for all the feedback, and I appreciate the time everyone took to respond.

One thing that I maybe didn't make clear is my brother has custody of his daughter every other day (they trade off daily). That means we see him and his daughter, as well as my mom and dad all together usually 2X per month if not more. We are with my parents usually 3/4 weekends and my brother and his daughter join for about 1/2 of those, particularly if we are doing something fun. So time with them isn't really the problem.

It is centered around the holidays specifically (which is why it is flaring up now) or milestones when the ex-wife wants to be invited. I don't feel like I need to have her at my birthday just like I don't need to have any of my exes at my birthday and I think its weird that she feels like she needs to be invited. The rest of the year doesn't matter and the ex doesn't get bent out of shape about a random sunday or whatever.

Like I said, related to the holidays - suck it up really isn't an option mostly due to the inherent awkwardness and nails on a chalkboard for my wife, as well as the small crowd. We came up with alternatives where everyone gets time but some of that time doesnt include the ex. This doesn't feel great for everyone, but the divorce didn't feel great for everyone either and we've all accepted that.

 

[Zow]

Thanks for all the feedback, and I appreciate the time everyone took to respond.

One thing that I maybe didn't make clear is my brother has custody of his daughter every other day (they trade off daily). That means we see him and his daughter, as well as my mom and dad all together usually 2X per month if not more. We are with my parents usually 3/4 weekends and my brother and his daughter join for about 1/2 of those, particularly if we are doing something fun. So time with them isn't really the problem.

It is centered around the holidays specifically (which is why it is flaring up now) or milestones when the ex-wife wants to be invited. I don't feel like I need to have her at my birthday just like I don't need to have any of my exes at my birthday and I think its weird that she feels like she needs to be invited. The rest of the year doesn't matter and the ex doesn't get bent out of shape about a random sunday or whatever.

Like I said, related to the holidays - suck it up really isn't an option mostly due to the inherent awkwardness and nails on a chalkboard for my wife, as well as the small crowd. We came up with alternatives where everyone gets time but some of that time doesnt include the ex. This doesn't feel great for everyone, but the divorce didn't feel great for everyone either and we've all accepted that.

Sounds like you and your wife are much more like your brother's ex than you may want to admit. This isn't solely about you or your wife, yet you're clearly good making it that way.

ETA: I feel badly that this sounds harsh and I'm not trying to beat you up, but I'm hoping my candid response is consistent with what you were open to when starting an AITA thread.

 

[General Malaise]

Outside of all that I just learned today she has a new boyfriend, which I feel makes this even less of my problem. We hold no ill will toward her and want her to be successful and happy, just at a respectful distance as together it would be awkward and likely not end well.

Thanks again for all the great replies!

Well, there you go. This guy - if he's just a normal, run of the mill guy - is going to impress upon her how ridiculous it is that she wants to spend holidays and big events with her ex-husband and his family. Hell, he's probably starting a thread somewhere else called "Would I be the AH if"......and the TL;DR version reads: "My SO wants to spend holidays and birthdays with her ex-husband for the benefit of her daughter and I'm thinking this is a deal breaker. Would I be the AH if I broke up with her over this".

 

[Zow]

Outside of all that I just learned today she has a new boyfriend, which I feel makes this even less of my problem. We hold no ill will toward her and want her to be successful and happy, just at a respectful distance as together it would be awkward and likely not end well.

Thanks again for all the great replies!

Well, there you go. This guy - if he's just a normal, run of the mill guy - is going to impress upon her how ridiculous it is that she wants to spend holidays and big events with her ex-husband and his family. Hell, he's probably starting a thread somewhere else called "Would I be the AH if"......and the TL;DR version reads: "My SO wants to spend holidays and birthdays with her ex-husband for the benefit of her daughter and I'm thinking this is a deal breaker. Would I be the AH if I broke up with her over this".

Yep. This poor setup is going to fix itself relatively soon. But, apparently the OP and his wife can't just put their own feelings aside for that short amount of time and their needs come before the overall needs of the entire family.

 

[SWC]

one thing you could so is agree to have her over but when she walks in tell her that she has to dress up like cobra commander and then when she does everyone else reveals that they are part of the gi joe team trust me she will get the hint and probably shout cobra really loud and reveal her true colors and her boyfriend is destro and then at the end you can have a cool wrap up where everyone learns a lesson called the more you know i have seen this work a thousand times take that to the bank brohan

 

[bigbottom]

Thanks for all the feedback, and I appreciate the time everyone took to respond.

One thing that I maybe didn't make clear is my brother has custody of his daughter every other day (they trade off daily). That means we see him and his daughter, as well as my mom and dad all together usually 2X per month if not more. We are with my parents usually 3/4 weekends and my brother and his daughter join for about 1/2 of those, particularly if we are doing something fun. So time with them isn't really the problem.

It is centered around the holidays specifically (which is why it is flaring up now) or milestones when the ex-wife wants to be invited. I don't feel like I need to have her at my birthday just like I don't need to have any of my exes at my birthday and I think its weird that she feels like she needs to be invited. The rest of the year doesn't matter and the ex doesn't get bent out of shape about a random sunday or whatever.

Like I said, related to the holidays - suck it up really isn't an option mostly due to the inherent awkwardness and nails on a chalkboard for my wife, as well as the small crowd. We came up with alternatives where everyone gets time but some of that time doesnt include the ex. This doesn't feel great for everyone, but the divorce didn't feel great for everyone either and we've all accepted that.

These were the two lines from your first post that stood out for me, and my reaction for your consideration:

She refuses to apologize for any past actions or words and just wants to blow things under the rug and pretend everything is fine. Why not let go of your expectations regarding an apology and agree to pretend everything is fine. Eventually it just may be.

so now the family is split on those holidays because my now elderly parents have to decide between my family and his as we refuse to get together with ex-wife without a clearing of the air and sincere apologies all around. Why insist on a clearing of the air and sincere apologies? Consider letting go of past grievances and allowing the family to be together on the holidays. You mentioned your wife doesn't deal well with unresolved conflict. Letting go is a way of resolving conflict.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Trying to say this as nicely as possible. Seems like you and your wife make a lot of things about yourselves.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

This is on you and your wife. Either move on and deal with things as they are now, or continue to have a crappy extended family dynamic. And am I correct in that it’s just 2 days a year you have “conflicts”? Good lord, suck it Up.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The ex-wife is definitely TA here.

That said, is it worth it to potentially alienate your elderly parents just because one of their kids married and divorced a headcase? If I were in your shoes, I would suck it up and just ignore the crazy lady at family gatherings. Most likely this problem will solve itself in a year or so anyway.

 

[Psychopav]

We hold no ill will toward her

Guy you spent a paragraph describing in detail how you don't like the way she spends her money.

Mostly this was an attempt helping people understand why we think she may be a narcissist. It was a sample of much I could put in there. That being said while I think all of that is ridiculous, that doesn't mean I have any ill will toward her. I wish her all the success and happiness life has to offer and if she wants to blow her cash that's her prerogative.

You think she MAY be a narcissist, or "after some advice and a fair amount of research, my wife and I are convinced she has narcissistic personality disorder"?

 

[Slumpbusters]

Thanks for all the feedback, and I appreciate the time everyone took to respond.

One thing that I maybe didn't make clear is my brother has custody of his daughter every other day (they trade off daily). That means we see him and his daughter, as well as my mom and dad all together usually 2X per month if not more. We are with my parents usually 3/4 weekends and my brother and his daughter join for about 1/2 of those, particularly if we are doing something fun. So time with them isn't really the problem.

It is centered around the holidays specifically (which is why it is flaring up now) or milestones when the ex-wife wants to be invited. I don't feel like I need to have her at my birthday just like I don't need to have any of my exes at my birthday and I think its weird that she feels like she needs to be invited. The rest of the year doesn't matter and the ex doesn't get bent out of shape about a random sunday or whatever.

Like I said, related to the holidays - suck it up really isn't an option mostly due to the inherent awkwardness and nails on a chalkboard for my wife, as well as the small crowd. We came up with alternatives where everyone gets time but some of that time doesnt include the ex. This doesn't feel great for everyone, but the divorce didn't feel great for everyone either and we've all accepted that.

Sounds like you and your wife are much more like your brother's ex than you may want to admit. This isn't solely about you or your wife, yet you're clearly good making it that way.

ETA: I feel badly that this sounds harsh and I'm not trying to beat you up, but I'm hoping my candid response is consistent with what you were open to when starting an AITA thread.

Don’t feel badly. I’m super conflicted on this and positive and negative feedback from people with some life experience and no emotional skin in the game is exactly why I posted.

 

[Slumpbusters]

The latter. We have researched it substantially and even gotten therapy on it because I’m used to being fortunate enough not to have a lot of conflict in my life. Feedback is to keep at significant arms length.

 

[Phil Elliott]

When is it her turn to host a holiday for the family ? I would want to keep them close to get to know the child.