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Yenrub

Infinite New York football Giants thread

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Kinda worried about Engram with a rookie QB, who can run, Barkley obviously and now Shepard healthy with Tate coming back?  Is it time to sell in re-draft or is he clearly TE4 rest of the way with Howard disappointing and Hunter Henry hurt.

 

 

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Darius Slayton is expected to make his debut on Sunday against the Bucs as well

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19 minutes ago, monk said:

Wow ... Just Wow!

Wear plastic sheathing tomorrow when reading the press... the gushing will be over the top. The Giants really didn't deserve to win that. Not with giving up as many yards to Evans as they did. Jenkins was beaten like a rented mule. But the delay of game penalty? Inexcusable. The Bucs deserved to miss that kick. Just really poor execution there. Jones needs to learn to hang on to the ball.

 

 

ETA: 

That delay of game was intentional?! File this in the "Dumb coach decision" thread. Wow.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2854853-bruce-arians-says-he-purposely-took-delay-of-game-penalty-before-matt-gay-miss?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral

Edited by IrishTwinkie

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1 hour ago, IrishTwinkie said:

Wear plastic sheathing tomorrow when reading the press... the gushing will be over the top. The Giants really didn't deserve to win that. Not with giving up as many yards to Evans as they did. Jenkins was beaten like a rented mule. But the delay of game penalty? Inexcusable. The Bucs deserved to miss that kick. Just really poor execution there. Jones needs to learn to hang on to the ball.

 

 

ETA: 

That delay of game was intentional?! File this in the "Dumb coach decision" thread. Wow.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2854853-bruce-arians-says-he-purposely-took-delay-of-game-penalty-before-matt-gay-miss?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral

Sometimes its better to be lucky than good. Jones was great in his debut, sure he has to clean up the ball security but you couldn't ask for much more of a rookie making his 1st start. It was nice to see a QB with the ability to make plays with his legs.

The defense was terrible.....in the 1st half. 2nd half they held the Bucs to 3 points (should have been 6 points but I'll take it). I'm not sure if they really figured something out in the 2nd half or the Bucs let off the gas but it was nice to see them not give up points in the 2nd half.  

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13 hours ago, IrishTwinkie said:

Wear plastic sheathing tomorrow when reading the press... the gushing will be over the top. The Giants really didn't deserve to win that. Not with giving up as many yards to Evans as they did. Jenkins was beaten like a rented mule. But the delay of game penalty? Inexcusable. The Bucs deserved to miss that kick. Just really poor execution there. Jones needs to learn to hang on to the ball.

 

 

ETA: 

That delay of game was intentional?! File this in the "Dumb coach decision" thread. Wow.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2854853-bruce-arians-says-he-purposely-took-delay-of-game-penalty-before-matt-gay-miss?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral

Jenkins was a disgrace ... but the Giants certainly deserved to win ...  after all they scored more pts than the opposing team and that's kind a the idea.

I think the PI reversal on Peppers was BS that's not what the review was put in place for. The exact thing happened to Slayton earlier in the game and the Giants didn't review (they shouldnt have) and then the lost a review on a play that was also PI in slow motion ... It was put in place to stop obviously terrible calls like the one that happened in the playoffs and the refs did not reverse anything in the preseason unless it was a blatantly blown call.

Bucs had at least all couple of obvious off-sides that were not called 

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Just watched highlights. Jones is a baller. Congrats Giants fans - you finally have a QB to get excited about. 

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On 8/27/2019 at 11:54 AM, monk said:

Whats the matter with you ... the Patriots were shut out for first time ever at Gillette Stadium and the 1st time since 2006 under Brissett ...against the Bills!?

Brissett has a 2.5 TD%  for his career ... he's terrible ! that's worse than Josh Rosen as a rookie with the Cardinals who were the worst team in the NFL last year 

Not sure why you are such a Brissett fan but you'd better hurry out and get his Jersey before they are all gone  ...they are flying off the shelves 

Hows that "journeyman" Brissett looking through 3 games? 

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46 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

Hows that "journeyman" Brissett looking through 3 games? 

I don't know, but the asking price for Eli has probably gone down. The Colts could get him at a bargain!

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On 9/23/2019 at 11:14 AM, Yenrub said:

Hows that "journeyman" Brissett looking through 3 games? 

Like a journeyman coming off a good game ... or Fitzmagical 

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3 hours ago, monk said:

Like a journeyman coming off a good game ... or Fitzmagical 

Well, he has a 112 QB rating after 3 games, so it is more than just one good game.

I think you may be underestimating the affect of Frank Reich on QB's. In 2017, Wentz was the frontrunner for MVP when he got hurt. Foles had great games in the NFC championship and Super Bowl. In 2018, Andrew Luck had the highest completion percentage and QB rating of his career. And now Brissett this year. The only QB who had a subpar year under Reich was Wentz in his rookie year of 2016 and he had an awful group of wide receivers and mediocre running backs to work with.

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When the FG kicker misses 2 XP and a chippie FG... hard to say you deserve to win. Giants deserved to win like 3-4 games last year and were killed in a similar manner, only the kicker made the kicks. That's luck sometimes...

 

https://twitter.com/JordanRaanan/status/1176602435244232709
 

Quote

The Giants worked out free agent RBs Zach Zenner, Benny Cunningham and Fozzy Whittaker on Tuesday.

Those names aren't going to move the needle in the Giants' post-Saquon Barkley backfield. Zenner is probably the most capable at this stage.

Yikes, so basically no competition for Gallman. Isn't Jay Ayaji still around that they could've paid a prorated contract for?

Edited by The Frankman

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Rather than get down about the RB, it would seem to be a time of optimism and a glimpse of brighter days ahead. This guy reminded me a little bit of another Giants' QB from the 80s, his poise and leadership, awareness to take what was given to him, confidence to execute plays and finish drives to keep them in the football game, winning on road down-18 1st game out of the box. Super impressive and could change the entire arc of their season. 

Edited by Ministry of Pain

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12 hours ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Rather than get down about the RB, it would seem to be a time of optimism and a glimpse of brighter days ahead. This guy reminded me a little bit of another Giants' QB from the 80s, his poise and leadership, awareness to take what was given to him, confidence to execute plays and finish drives to keep them in the football game, winning on road down-18 1st game out of the box. Super impressive and could change the entire arc of their season. 

Scott Brunner or Jeff Rutledge? 😀

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Thank god we did not draft him !!!!!!

Haskins looked really ... really ...  really .... bad !

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Haskins did look bad. To his defense, putting him seemed like a pure desperation play. It is clear he isn't ready and I suspect his coaches know that.

I am happy with the win. The D looked better. Gallman looked at least serviceable. But I am not getting any hopes up. Washington is a bad team. The really aren't any kind of a test. I thought the Giants were a bad team, but it was really only one side of the ball that was dragging them down. Washington was bad, really bad, on both sides of ball.

 

For all the shade thrown Eli's way for protecting the ball... Jones has caused 4 turnovers in two games. All of them his fault. He needs to learn to protect the ball. I'm not holding my breath on hearing anyone in the NY media point this out.

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The Giants converted 62% on 3rd downs today. I wonder how many were a result of a Daniel Jones run.

Good win for the Giants. Way too many turnovers but I'll take the win. LB Connlley hurt his knee, which is going to be a big blow to the defense. He was playing well.

The defense looked good but I won't put too much stock into this game considering how many injuries and missing players Washington. 

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19 hours ago, IrishTwinkie said:

Haskins did look bad. To his defense, putting him seemed like a pure desperation play. It is clear he isn't ready and I suspect his coaches know that.

I am happy with the win. The D looked better. Gallman looked at least serviceable. But I am not getting any hopes up. Washington is a bad team. The really aren't any kind of a test. I thought the Giants were a bad team, but it was really only one side of the ball that was dragging them down. Washington was bad, really bad, on both sides of ball.

 

For all the shade thrown Eli's way for protecting the ball... Jones has caused 4 turnovers in two games. All of them his fault. He needs to learn to protect the ball. I'm not holding my breath on hearing anyone in the NY media point this out.

While I don't disagree ... last week everyone said, yeah but it's just Tampa,  who followed up their loss to the Giants with a 50 plus point thrashing of the 3-0 Rams. Giants have played the Cowboys 3-1, Bills 3-1, and Tampa 2-2  ... a pretty tough schedule. They won their last 2 games with a rookie QB and missing their best offensive weapon and one of their best receivers. Their defense is very young and has arguably gotten better every week  ... I know they are not great but the Gints may be better than we think. The loss of Connelly is pretty huge especially since we are already down 2 ILBs.  I think they can surprise at home vs Min this week ... I'm most concerned about Dalvin Cook with our LB shortage.

NY vs MIN weekend !!!!! Go Giants !!!!! Go Yanks !!!!!!!!

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Upon re-reading I sounded gloomier than I really felt. Loved that we gave to Washington, too many yapping voices on that squad. This was a new game script and I am happy for it.  I am way tired of the old ones we've had, so the new one is nice. I didn't see any of the Rams game, so I'll admit to being shocked at the score. I guess after being gut punched too many times I am wary of getting my hopes up too much.

 

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Dan Salomone
@NYGsalomone

The Giants have placed LB Ryan Connelly on IR and claimed DE Chris Peace off waivers.

 

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Added to 53-man roster:
• WR Golden Tate activated off suspension list
• LB Josiah Tauaefa promoted from practice squad

Released: 
• WR Bennie Fowler
• WR TJ Jones

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Posted (edited)

I thought the Giants played really tough against the Vikings ... just got overmatched.

the Vikings defense is absolutely loaded at every position. Offensively their line was tough and Dalvin Cook is unstoppable...

I thought the safety on the 1st play after the Peppers strip was a horrible call by the Giants and the turning point of the game.

A couple of changes that need to be made immediately are RB - Hilliman is not an NFL back. He is way to slow and with Gallman In Concussion protocol they should sign Jay Ajayi ASAP!

 LB ... there are guys on the street who would be an Instant upgrade over  Stupar ... ie Brandon Marshall ... either of them.  Stupar is really bad!

Peppers is turning into a star ... he looked like LT on a few plays yesterday. The classic LT strip from behind at the goal line and the reckless pinball, ricocheting off of Thielen and Cook and laying them both out in the backfield.

Shurmer not challenging PI in the end zone was stupid. BS Taunting call and hands to Face cost the Giants dearly ... neither should have been called 

Very good chance the Giants pull that game out with Barkley. They may have even had a chance if Gallman didn’t get injured

Edited by monk

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Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
·
Buccaneers released veteran LB Deone Bucannon this morning, before they head to London for Sunday’s game against the Panthers, per source. The former Cardinals’ first-round pick is expected to get a chance elsewhere.

 

Played for Bettcher in Arizona.  Makes too much sense to bring him in, can't tell me he's not betting that Nate freakin Stupar.

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1 minute ago, kodycutter said:

Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
·
Buccaneers released veteran LB Deone Bucannon this morning, before they head to London for Sunday’s game against the Panthers, per source. The former Cardinals’ first-round pick is expected to get a chance elsewhere.

 

Played for Bettcher in Arizona.  Makes too much sense to bring him in, can't tell me he's not betting that Nate freakin Stupar.

The Giants should release Alex Tanney to make room for him

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It's not fair...Giants lose Engram, Sheperd, and Barkley for a game vs. New England that they weren't going to win anyway (Unless Eli played ;)), but now it's going to be a massacre. You know Bill is going to run it up, Baker possibly having to D Edelman is giving me nightmares already.

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2 hours ago, The Frankman said:

It's not fair...Giants lose Engram, Sheperd, and Barkley for a game vs. New England that they weren't going to win anyway (Unless Eli played ;)), but now it's going to be a massacre. You know Bill is going to run it up, Baker possibly having to D Edelman is giving me nightmares already.

Gallman out as well.   I don't see how we are moving the ball.   Hilliman and Penny at RB.   Just gotta hope Jones makes it through healthy.

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Is Rhett Ellison even a consideration for Engram owners, especially given Shepard being out?

Or is the general consensus that this will be a blood bath and avoid at all costs?

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On 10/9/2019 at 9:59 AM, Yenrub said:

The Giants should release Alex Tanney to make room for him

Tanney waived.   Austin Walter (RB) signed from practice squad.

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23 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Is Rhett Ellison even a consideration for Engram owners, especially given Shepard being out?

Or is the general consensus that this will be a blood bath and avoid at all costs?

No, because we have no idea the type of connection Jones has with Ellison. People say start Jon Hilliman, but have you seen his PlayerProfiler? His best comp is Paul Perkins... I mean he's going to get 14-16 carries and dumpoffs, but it won't be pretty. He's startable for volume alone.

Edited by The Frankman

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https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1182375396484014082
 

Quote

Free agent RB Akeem Hunt will work out for the Giants on Friday.

New York's backfield is laughably thin right now with undrafted Rutgers alum Jonathan Hilliman currently serving as the lead back. Saquon Barkley (ankle) is trending toward a Week 7 return, so Hunt would merely be a depth signing for the injury-ravaged Giants. Hunt, who went to training camp with the Titans this summer, hasn't played an NFL down since 2017. He has history with the Giants, who signed him as an undrafted rookie in 2015.

That's next-level thinking there. Wait until you play the game, then work out a RB.

Edited by The Frankman
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I feel like Leslie Nielsen coming in to say "Good luck, Striker. We're all counting on you" but that seems wildly unfair.

Shepard, Barkley, Engram, etc.

This sounds ugly. Who runs with the ones?

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Golden Tate please grab your Superman cape and report to the field immediately. 

How many targets tonight? The problem will be sustained drives, nobody to run the ball. 

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5 hours ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Golden Tate please grab your Superman cape and report to the field immediately. 

How many targets tonight? The problem will be sustained drives, nobody to run the ball. 

16 and counting

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Jones looks good guys, just wanted to poke in and say I think you guys have a legit heir to the throne. Nice pick :thumbup: 

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It's the same players killing the giants over and over again 

Hilliman, Stupar, Hamilton and Jenkins 

Hilliman and Stupar just don't belong in the league ....not even on a practice squad 

Hamilton is all pro covering plays in front of him (short passes and Run) and peewee league covering mid to deep AKA behind him

Jenkins is getting lit up by any decent WR ...He had a  big game vs. the hapless Skins and has been absolute garbage against everyone else  2 or 3 of is picks have been gifted 

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12 hours ago, [icon] said:

Jones looks good guys, just wanted to poke in and say I think you guys have a legit heir to the throne. Nice pick :thumbup: 

He really didn't look good, but sure ok.

 

It's funny how a reverse backlash has happened where now no one wants to criticize Daniel Jones no matter how badly he plays. He looked scared half the night, didn't sense pressure on more than a few plays, and played a dangerous game throwing into extremely small windows. He was a 1 read and pass QB most of the night and for the second straight week, once they had him start doing progression reads he threw a terrible INT and they had to go back to the 1 read offense.

Edited by The Frankman

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2 hours ago, The Frankman said:

He really didn't look good, but sure ok.

 

It's funny how a reverse backlash has happened where now no one wants to criticize Daniel Jones no matter ho badly he plays. He looked scared half the night, didn't sense pressure on more than a few plays, and played a dangerous game throwing into extremely small windows. He was a 1 read and pass QB most of the night and for the second straight week, once they had him start doing progression reads he threw a terrible INT and they had to go back to the 1 read offense.

He was facing the best defense in the NFL last night though.

They’ve made EVERYONE look bad. He’s got the only passing TD in 6 games against them. 

He’s showing promise IMO. 

Edited by [icon]
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2 hours ago, [icon] said:

He was facing the best defense in the NFL last night though.

They’ve made EVERYONE look bad. He’s got the only passing TD in 6 games against them. 

He’s showing promise IMO. 

Jones looked like what he is, a rookie.

While the Patriots defense is putting up historical type numbers, I’m not really sure how good they really are. You mentioned that they have made everyone look bad, which is true but here is the list of QB’s they have played so far this season

Big Ben

Ryan Fitzpatrick

Luke Falk

Josh Allen & Matt Barkley

Colt McCoy

DJ

Outside of Ben and on occasion Fitzpatrick when have these guys ever looked good for a meaningful amount of time?

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8 hours ago, monk said:

It's the same players killing the giants over and over again 

Hilliman, Stupar, Hamilton and Jenkins 

Hilliman and Stupar just don't belong in the league ....not even on a practice squad 

Hamilton is all pro covering plays in front of him (short passes and Run) and peewee league covering mid to deep AKA behind him

Jenkins is getting lit up by any decent WR ...He had a  big game vs. the hapless Skins and has been absolute garbage against everyone else  2 or 3 of is picks have been gifted 

Coaching isn't helping either

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I don’t know how anyone who watch the game could come away saying that Jones look bad given the circumstances. I was very encouraged by the way the Giants as a whole played last night. The o line played well and Jones showed poise and made some nice throws. He made a few bonehead decisions which is typical for a rookie. 
 

But his accuracy in touch on his passes are a thing of beauty. I mean, who is he throwing two last night? No Saquon, no Engram, no Sheppard.  Dude has barely played with Golden Tate and has no rapport with him.  And playing against the best defense maybe ever. 
 

DJ has wildly surpassed all of the expectations that I had for him already this season. I truly do believe he can be the next great Giants quarterback but they need to surround him with talent and a good offensive line

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37 minutes ago, rickyg said:

I don’t know how anyone who watch the game could come away saying that Jones look bad given the circumstances. I was very encouraged by the way the Giants as a whole played last night. The o line played well and Jones showed poise and made some nice throws. He made a few bonehead decisions which is typical for a rookie. 
 

But his accuracy in touch on his passes are a thing of beauty. I mean, who is he throwing two last night? No Saquon, no Engram, no Sheppard.  Dude has barely played with Golden Tate and has no rapport with him.  And playing against the best defense maybe ever
 

DJ has wildly surpassed all of the expectations that I had for him already this season. I truly do believe he can be the next great Giants quarterback but they need to surround him with talent and a good offensive line

Okay, pump the brakes a little bit. New England has a very good defense this year. But after doing a nice job against Roethlisberger, the Patriots have played against Fitzpatrick/Rosen, Falk, Allen, McCoy, and Jones. That's a Journeyman/2nd year back-up, 3rd string rookie, 2nd year starter, Career back-up coming off an injury, and a rookie QB. Not exactly a murderer's row. Let's wait to see how they do against Prescott/Wentz/Mahomes/Watson before we start those kind of proclamations.

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I'm a full picture kind of guy. If a guy plays well for 10 minutes and terribly for 30, I'm supposed to ignore the 30 and gush over the 10? No thank you. Even on the plays he moved the ball he easily could've thrown another 2 INTs. For reference, Dwyane Haskins threw 3 INTs in a game his coach didn't even prepare him for a few weeks ago and the community was about to label him a bust. I mean, this is why I thought back then Jones shouldn't come in to replace Manning until at least Week 7 begin with; presumably he'd have Golden Tate back and a full squad + he'd miss the tough combo of the Vikings and Patriots. He has a lot of warts he has to work out and he's nowhere near having full command of the offense yet.
 

Quote

Giants waived RB Austin Walter.

This would indicate that Saquon Barkley (ankle) is nearing a return. QB Alex Tanney—who was cut when Walter signed earlier this week—will absorb his spot on the active roster. Walter didn't play an offensive snap in Thursday night's loss to the Patriots.

Though Barkley should be back it also means Wayne Gallman Jr. will be ready next week.

Edited by The Frankman
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I think everyone needs to pump the breaks on both sides of the Jones/Giants Offense debates. 

So far Jones has played a game against the Bucs, missing the best RB in the NFL for the entire second half. And his #2 WR for the entire game. Jones was dominant without Barkley in that game, Giants went on to win. 

Jones played a game against the Redskins, missing the best RB in the NFL for the entire game and his #2 WR for the entire game. While not dominant he played fine, he wasn't asked to do much as they basically dominated this entire game, the picks were of some concern though obviously. 

Jones played against the Vikings, missing both the best RB in the NFL AND his backup who looked decent against the Redskins for the entire game. Again, Jones didn't look great, but there's context here.

Jones played against the Patriots. He was missing the best RB in the NFL, his #2 RB, his #1 WR and arguably the most physically gifted (not saying best, just physically gifted) TE in the NFL right now. He's the only QB all season to put up a TD against the Patriots. Of his 3 INTs I'd argue only one was clearly his fault and that was him failing to recognize the underneath coverage on the throw on the sideline to Ellison. 

Go actually watch these games from a coaches film standpoint though. Jones literally has nobody open to throw too. There was a stat earlier on Twitter said that the Giants receivers had the lowest average separation per route run in the entire 4 year history of Next Gen Stats last night. On average at the point of Jones release, the receivers for the Giants had less than 1.8 yards of separation. It's easy to watch the game last night then look at his stats and say "15/31 with 3 INTs? Dude made terrible reads all night". I know last week this stat was also brought up saying on the season, since Jones took over in Week 3 the Giants had the least separation of any unit all year and that was BEFORE they broke that record on Next Gen last night.

But the NextGen stat and just what you see with your eyes on a All 22 feed show you it's not that Jones isn't making the right reads, it's that there's literally no right ones. Nobody was ever open, when they were, Jones hit them in stride liek the TD to Tate. Otherwise, he was forced to throw into double coverage on nearly every drop back. You can't throw every pass away. Eventually you have to try and make plays and I think it's actually good to see that Jones was willing to try and make something happen. Other QBs (Eli for exmaple) would have just thrown the ball away and punted every time and just played horrible football and there's no chance they can win playing like that. 

To me, this all comes back to Saquon. With Saquon out, the Vikings & Pats basically just rushed 5 on every down and dropped 6 into coverage. There's zero fear of Jon Hilliman killing you and even if he does, both teams are MORE than willing to die on the hill of leaving Hilliman with running room. If Barkley is in that backfield though, you literally can't play defense that way as he will gash you to the heavens. Off the top of my head there were 3 plays I recall last night where Hilliman was too slow or lacked the agility to make one guy miss and if he makes that guy miss, he has a easy 50-60 yard run in front of him.

If Saquon is in the backfield, both the Vikings and Pats are forced to play a completely different style of defense. Rather than playing Cover 2 or 3 all night they're probably in Cover 1 most of the night which opens up massive holes in the secondary for Jones to take advantage of and try to actually make the right reads. 

The tl;dr of it all is basically, saying Jones looks great or looks horrible or even looks okay is in my opinion, not something anyone should or can say right now. We've yet to really see him once with a healthy team around him and as a rookie that's devastation. I want to see him with a healthy Saquon + Engram at least on the field together before I go jumping to conclusions. He's basically playing with a bunch of practice squad players and Golden Tate against arguably the best defense in football. Imagine how Kyle Allen would look if CMC weren't active the last three weeks and while we're out of, Reggie Bonnafont gets hurt too? Or Teddy Bridgewater if Kamara was inactive and while we're at it Murray gets hurt after him? What about Minshew without Fournette active? 

You get the point. 

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5 hours ago, dhockster said:

Okay, pump the brakes a little bit. New England has a very good defense this year. But after doing a nice job against Roethlisberger, the Patriots have played against Fitzpatrick/Rosen, Falk, Allen, McCoy, and Jones. That's a Journeyman/2nd year back-up, 3rd string rookie, 2nd year starter, Career back-up coming off an injury, and a rookie QB. Not exactly a murderer's row. Let's wait to see how they do against Prescott/Wentz/Mahomes/Watson before we start those kind of proclamations.

I hear you on that...to clarify my statement, they have been performing as a defense through the first 6 weeks of this season better than any other defense in history has performed from an NFL and fantasy perspective.  I don't know if that will continue, and I suspect that tougher competition will be able to score on them, but I don't think the drop off in their production will be steep enough to change my mind that they are at least the best defense in the NFL this year. 

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