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Bracie Smathers

RB/WR Curtis Samuel

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1 hour ago, BobbyLayne said:

Could someone tell me the differences between DJ Moore and Curtis Samuel?

Does one do things the other one cannot? Do they line up differently, e.g., what's the ratio of outside v slot for each?

Not sure how true this will turn out to be but predraft for both of them I heard....

Curtis Samuel could end up being Steve Smith

D.J. Moore is a better(?) version of Golden Tate

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Transitioning from RB, this kid is still  learning the position.  If his playing time keeps going up, he is going to be great.  He's a playmaker.  With Cam, CMC, Moore, Samuel, Olsen on the field, the CAR offense has the potential to be incredibly electric.  They're getting better as the season goes on and the young WR's get more playing time.

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1 hour ago, robb said:

Samuels a better keeper ROS than Funchess now?

Way higher upside, imo.  If Funchess is sitting on your bench then absolutely worth a swing-for-the-fence upside stash for the end of the season.

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Panthers OC Norv Turner said Curtis Samuel is "becoming an outstanding route runner."

Beat writers have been wowed by Samuel seemingly every day thus far in training camp, and it looks like the receiver has caught the attention of his coach as well. With Devin Funchess gone, Samuel is almost locked in as the No. 2 receiver behind D.J. Moore after showing well when given opportunities last season. Samuel looks like a great upside pick in the later rounds.

SOURCE: Max Henson on Twitter

Jul 29, 2019, 12:16 PM ET

 

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1 hour ago, jm192 said:

Definitely like his value.  Could post similar numbers to Moore a decent bit later. 

Very possible. Moore has some high potential upside, but a lot of it relative to Samuel seems to be based on his 1st round draft pedigree and little else.

Edited by zamboni
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Steve Reed‏ @SteveReedAP

I’m honestly beginning to wonder if Curtis Samuel might be Carolina’s No. 1 WR this season. Won’t surprise me. Not a knock on DJ Moore at all, but Samuel has looked THAT good in training camp.

7:37 AM - 6 Aug 2019

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Coach Ron Rivera said Curtis Samuel is "lightyears" ahead of where he was as a rookie.

Samuel, the 40th pick in the 2017 draft, missed a bunch of time to injury as a rookie before enjoying a second-year leap in 2018. This season, Samuel has been the talk of Panthers camp and is looking like a prime third-year breakout candidate. Some have even suggested Samuel could be Carolina's No. 1 receiver ahead of D.J. Moore when all is said and done. Samuel has been a riser up fantasy draft boards and is currently being selected in the ninth round.

SOURCE: ESPN.com

Aug 7, 2019, 10:29 AM ET

 

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Absolutely looking to grab this guy around the 10th. Severely undervalued. I think Cam bounces back this year now that he is healthy. 

Edited by Elevencents
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10 minutes ago, Elevencents said:

Absolutely looking to grab this guy around the 10th. Severely undervalued. I think Cam bounces back this year now that he is healthy. 

Let's just keep the hype on simmer until after we can draft him to all of our teams :)

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9 hours ago, Elevencents said:

Absolutely looking to grab this guy around the 10th. Severely undervalued. I think Cam bounces back this year now that he is healthy. 

Everyone assumes DJ Moore will breakout, Greg Olsen and Ian Thomas make a great pair of TE's, along with McCaffrey.  Add in Samuel who was really good last year from a football standpoint and only growing into what he's about to blow up as.  Why aren't people talking up the Carolina offense in general?  Cam could have another MVP year if he's healthy.  Could end up being one of the top 5 offenses in all of football.  

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6 hours ago, Zyphros said:

Everyone assumes DJ Moore will breakout, Greg Olsen and Ian Thomas make a great pair of TE's, along with McCaffrey.  Add in Samuel who was really good last year from a football standpoint and only growing into what he's about to blow up as.  Why aren't people talking up the Carolina offense in general?  Cam could have another MVP year if he's healthy.  Could end up being one of the top 5 offenses in all of football.  

Cam essentially is a guaranteed top 5 QB if healthy. I don’t think he has fallen outside of it. Ever. 

I’m really not a fan of him but if he’s still around when I’m looking QB I will take him without hesitation. 

Edit: double checked - top 4 or better every healthy year

Edited by Elevencents

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David Newton @DNewtonespn

Cam Newton to Curtis Samuel with tight coverage from James Bradberry. Samuel keeps impressing.

 

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Brendan Marks @BrendanRMarks

Cam Newton in for team drills, and guess who he’s already found? Curtis.

 

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Where would you put Samuel with respect to the rookie WR class of this year?  Would he be the top draft target in a dynasty rookie draft?

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1 hour ago, Gally said:

Where would you put Samuel with respect to the rookie WR class of this year?  Would he be the top draft target in a dynasty rookie draft?

As of today, I would take him over any of the rookie WR.  Most of the big name rookies have been underwhelming.  If I were in complete rebuild I might go with Harry or Metcalf or something, but I prefer the known in what we are seeing in Samuel.

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9 minutes ago, Winning IS Everything said:

As of today, I would take him over any of the rookie WR.  Most of the big name rookies have been underwhelming.  If I were in complete rebuild I might go with Harry or Metcalf or something, but I prefer the known in what we are seeing in Samuel.

What have we seen from Samuel? Him getting open against defenders going half speed who can't hit yet?

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1 minute ago, Dr. Octopus said:

What have we seen from Samuel? Him getting open against defenders going half speed who can't hit yet?

No, the one that scored 7 total TD's with limited time with the #1 s last year and scorching up defenders in camp at half speed.  I just prefer that to the rookies.

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3 hours ago, Winning IS Everything said:

As of today, I would take him over any of the rookie WR.  Most of the big name rookies have been underwhelming.  If I were in complete rebuild I might go with Harry or Metcalf or something, but I prefer the known in what we are seeing in Samuel.

Interesting. I was offered Samuel and a 3rd for my AJ Brown. Brown was my wr1 pre nfl draft and my wr4 post NFL draft. I like him a lot. 

I declined. 

Samuel is 4th on his team in targets. The games that Samuel did very well were the games Cam Newyon was having trouble with his shoulder, so he had to throw those short passes. 

Everyone is high on DJ Moore, and Samuel is getting out of control hype too. Where are these targets going to come from?

Its conceivable that Samuel did well to end the season because they had to design the offense that way due to Cams shoulder. 

Its conceivable that DJ Moore is a bust and Samuel becomes the #1, or Samuel takes targets from Olsen. 

What's inconceivable to me is that DJ Moore, and Samuel, and Olsen/Thomas, and CMC are going to be massively productive in the passing game. Something has to give 

 

ETA: I understand Funchess left 79 targets, however I expect DJ Moore to be the focal point of that offense. <100 targets for Moore would be ridiculous. 

I would imagine Samuel has about 80-90 targets this year. I dont think that equates to the hype he is receiving. Hes a great wr4, maybe a decent enough wr3. The top of this rookie draft has 3 or 4 wrs who can be wr1s on their teams.

Edited by Dr. Dan
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1 hour ago, Dr. Dan said:

Samuel is 4th on his team in targets. The games that Samuel did very well were the games Cam Newyon was having trouble with his shoulder, so he had to throw those short passes. 

Is this really true?

Curtis Samuel: 402 air yards (6.2p/tgt)

DJ Moore: 382 air yards (4.7p/tgt)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFpI2CZj7c8

Shows highlights game by game in chronological order. Sure seems like he was catching the ball downfield.

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I wouldn't move AJ Brown for him either, but I would try acquiring Samuel anywhere he's available. Unfortunately I've tried in my leagues and the fluff pieces about him maybe being the #1 WR have  cemented his place on rosters or so it seems...

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would he be worth a high 2020 2nd? like pretty much guaranteed 2.1?

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6 hours ago, Genius1223 said:

Is this really true?

Curtis Samuel: 402 air yards (6.2p/tgt)

DJ Moore: 382 air yards (4.7p/tgt)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFpI2CZj7c8

Shows highlights game by game in chronological order. Sure seems like he was catching the ball downfield.

is 6.2 yards per target really downfield? or am I not reading that right? 

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11 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

would he be worth a high 2020 2nd? like pretty much guaranteed 2.1?

Depends on team WR depth in my opinion.  If Samuel is viewed as that Teams #3 WR, not sure it would do it.

My team is very strong at WR.  As a Samuel and DJ owner, I would probably take the 2.1 but only because the 2020 draft class projects so strongly.

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19 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

What's inconceivable to me is that DJ Moore, and Samuel, and Olsen/Thomas, and CMC are going to be massively productive in the passing game. Something has to give 

It really feels to me that Olsen is the odd man out here. Even if he stays healthy, I see his targets dropping off.

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8 minutes ago, Wise Old Owl said:

It really feels to me that Olsen is the odd man out here. Even if he stays healthy, I see his targets dropping off.

I think Cam has the comfort with Olsen over WR's just from history.  I think Olsen value is reduced if they run significant 2 TE sets.  Blocking primary tasks? 

11 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

would he be worth a high 2020 2nd? like pretty much guaranteed 2.1?

IF I was buying, It would take a 1st to get him from me....even a late 1st would do it.  

FWIW, I offered C Samuel & 2020 (mid?) 1st for Calvin Ridley without success.

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3 hours ago, Birdie048 said:

I think Cam has the comfort with Olsen over WR's just from history.  I think Olsen value is reduced if they run significant 2 TE sets.  Blocking primary tasks

Due to injuries Olsen has seen less than 40 targets each of the past two years. Its been a while since Olsen has been Cam's go to guy. CMC has usurped that role.

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The Charlotte Observer has labeled third-year pro Curtis Samuel the offensive MVP of Panthers training camp thus far.

Reporter Brendan Marks said "any credibility we have would be lost if we didn’t pick Samuel." Per Marks, Samuel has been "practically impossible to cover" and makes "one or two plays every day that bring a wow-factor." The Samuel hype train is all the way out of control. Some have suggested he could even emerge as the Panthers' No. 1 receiver over D.J. Moore, but there is not yet evidence to support that. A raw player when he entered the league as a 20-year-old in the 2017 draft, Samuel has taken his time developing, but he certainly appears poised to make a legitimate fantasy impact.

SOURCE: Charlotte Observer

Aug 15, 2019, 2:28 PM ET

 

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18 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

is 6.2 yards per target really downfield? or am I not reading that right? 

Air Yards is Rec Yards-Yards After Catch. Divide that number by number of targets.

Perhaps a better metric would've been average target distance?

Curtis Samuel: 12.4 average target distance (#40 in NFL)

DJ Moore: 9.1 average target distance (#86 in NFL)

Not saying Curtis Samuel is better than DJ Moore. Just pointing out how he actually was a downfield receiver (not just screens and gadget plays) and not just catching short throws from an injured shoulder having Cam Newton. Even more of a downfield receiver than Moore in fact.

 

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Nick Mensio‏Verified account @NickMensio

Impossible to find anything negative on Curtis Samuel. Even #Bills beat writers called Samuel's "footwork a treat to watch" in joint practices with BUF this week. Samuel has routinely dusted CBs Tre'Davious White & Levi Wallace over the last couple days:

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All this news on the CAR WRs, and the news that Cam has his long ball back....I'm starting to think he's getting overlooked a bit in drafts.  Depending on the scoring system (rushing yards vs throwing yards), he could flirt with a top 5 QB finish. 

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This Samuel hype is getting out of control.  He's likely gonna have some sleeper-thirsty owner take him way too early.

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1 hour ago, Deamon said:

This Samuel hype is getting out of control.  He's likely gonna have some sleeper-thirsty owner take him way too early.

At this point is he really a "sleeper"? 

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1 minute ago, Gally said:

At this point is he really a "sleeper"? 

hes over valued. 

4th or 3rd at best option on the team. People acting as if hes going to be a wr2 with wr1 upside. I dont buy it. sure it could happen but that would be at the expense of DJ Moore

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7 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

hes over valued. 

4th or 3rd at best option on the team. People acting as if hes going to be a wr2 with wr1 upside. I dont buy it. sure it could happen but that would be at the expense of DJ Moore

I'm seeing him going around the 7/8 turn and WR36-40.  He's going right about Christian Kirk range.  

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1 minute ago, BassNBrew said:

I'm seeing him going around the 7/8 turn and WR36-40.  He's going right about Christian Kirk range.  

see, I'd rather have Kirk. Kirk could be wr1 and top target getter on his team as early as this year. I dont see Curtis ever achieving that status.

Edited by Dr. Dan

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18 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

see, I'd rather have Kirk. Kirk could be wr1 and top target getter on his team as early as this year. I dont see Curtis ever achieving that status.

I'm going with the guy who's QB made Ted Ginn a WR2 out of no where as opposed to the guy with a rookie QB.  I also learned a long time ago never to bet against Fitz.

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