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Jordan's Bulls vs the Warriors of the past 3 years (2 Viewers)

The Jordan nonsense gets worse every year.  He was awesome.  One of the best ever, obvious argument for the best.  He was not superhuman.  He took a ton of shots and received the ultimate superstar treatment.

He was a great player on great teams with the best supporting player of all time.  He would not score 50 a night now, and Curry would be awesome in the 90s.

 
shader said:
There's nothing bigger, stronger or faster about these Warriors.  

Lebron?  Yeah he's an other worldly guy.  But there's only one of him.  

If Steph Curry tried to go back and play in the mid-90s, he'd struggle to make the all-star team.  You think he's scoring 35 a night with Jordan/Pippen guarding him?  Not a chance.

I will admit if they played under today's rules the Warriors would have a better chance, but if that's the case, Jordan might average 50+ points a game.
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Today's players are hitting 3's from spots where   Jordan era teams wouldn't even try and take shots. 

Some metrics nerds probably has this all figured out but the amount and consistency at which the Warriors hit 3's would be huge.

 
Ok, if not the Warriors of recent history, what about the 86-87 Lakers taking on the Bulls? Magic, Kareem, James Worthy, Bryon Scott, Mychal Thompson, Michael Cooper, AC Green... That team was stacked and Magic was probably at his finest running the show in 86 and 87, while Kareem still had legs.

 
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Zigg said:
He was a great player on great teams with the best supporting player of all time
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I suppose you must mean Pippen.  :lmao:

Perhaps you recall that these guys played as teammates:

  • Kareem and Magic
  • Kareem and Oscar
  • Russell, Havlicek, and Cousy
  • Wilt, West, and Baylor
  • Wilt and Barry
  • Moses and Dr. J
  • Duncan and Robinson
  • Malone and Stockton
  • Shaq and Kobe
  • Shaq and Wade
  • Lebron and Wade
  • Dirk and Nash
  • Dirk and Kidd
  • Curry and Durant
You are saying that Pippen is better than at least one player in each pairing above. Come on, man. And I assume I missed some other compelling pairings, too.

 
I just had this debate with some friends.  The notion that today's players are just bigger stronger faster is itself kind of undermined by the Warriors of today being so good.  I mean the 2016 Warriors set the all time wins mark and the only player there id say is otherworldly athlete is Iguadola.  They start a 6'8" guy at center.  The Warriors dominance today over teams that have many freakier athletes is itself the argument that while athleticism is important, it's certainly not the dominant factor in the NBA.

There's guys like Shaq, David Robinson, Shawn Kemp from 20 years ago that are no less the athlete as anyone from now.  

 
Beef Ravioli said:
So the Warriors lose the finals last year and if the Cavs did not have injuries the previous year (Kyrie, Love and Shumpert played with one arm) they may have lost that year and now we are asking if they are better than Jordan's Bulls?
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Because injuries to Curry, Iggy, Bogut and the Green suspension had nothing to do with last years final.

 
Just Win Baby said:
I suppose you must mean Pippen.  :lmao:

Perhaps you recall that these guys played as teammates:

  • Kareem and Magic
  • Kareem and Oscar
  • Russell, Havlicek, and Cousy
  • Wilt, West, and Baylor
  • Wilt and Barry
  • Moses and Dr. J
  • Duncan and Robinson
  • Malone and Stockton
  • Shaq and Kobe
  • Shaq and Wade
  • Lebron and Wade
  • Dirk and Nash
  • Dirk and Kidd
  • Curry and Durant
You are saying that Pippen is better than at least one player in each pairing above. Come on, man. And I assume I missed some other compelling pairings, too.
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I think you missed the "supporting" part.

 
Zigg said:
The Jordan nonsense gets worse every year.  He was awesome.  One of the best ever, obvious argument for the best.  He was not superhuman.  He took a ton of shots and received the ultimate superstar treatment.

He was a great player on great teams with the best supporting player of all time.  He would not score 50 a night now, and Curry would be awesome in the 90s.
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That's funny you say that because the general consensus is curry wouldn't even be able to get a shot off in the 90s.

 
Just Win Baby said:
Did I? What does it even mean then, if it doesn't mean the best #2 player on a team? Best player not good enough to be a superstar?  :loco:
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I'm didn't make the argument but I guess it's whose game best supports the Alpha player.   For example, Wade wasn't the best supporting player for LeBron because Wade needed the ball in his hand to be most effective and he didn't space the floor. 

 
Short Corner said:
Because injuries to Curry, Iggy, Bogut and the Green suspension had nothing to do with last years final.
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I wasn't trying to prove a point between the Cavs and the Warriors. I was using it as a why would we consider a one time champion team and even that was against a team missing two of their big three players against one of the best teams that threepeated twice. It seems like that's kind of premature question in my opinion.

 
Protocols of Stringer Bell said:
I just had this debate with some friends.  The notion that today's players are just bigger stronger faster is itself kind of undermined by the Warriors of today being so good.  I mean the 2016 Warriors set the all time wins mark and the only player there id say is otherworldly athlete is Iguadola.  They start a 6'8" guy at center.  The Warriors dominance today over teams that have many freakier athletes is itself the argument that while athleticism is important, it's certainly not the dominant factor in the NBA.

There's guys like Shaq, David Robinson, Shawn Kemp from 20 years ago that are no less the athlete as anyone from now.  
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It's really dumb to think that today's athletes are markedly better than athletes from the 90s. The 60s and 70s sure.  But as you say guys like Shaq would still destroy today's NBA.

 
Zigg said:
The Jordan nonsense gets worse every year.  He was awesome.  One of the best ever, obvious argument for the best.  He was not superhuman.  He took a ton of shots and received the ultimate superstar treatment.

He was a great player on great teams with the best supporting player of all time.  He would not score 50 a night now, and Curry would be awesome in the 90s.
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Jordan had a higher fg% than Curry.  What does the "ultimate superstar treatment" mean?

My guess is that the ones arguing against Jordan were all 5 or 6 (or younger) when he retired and honestly have no idea what they are talking about.

The idea that the modern basketball player is somehow more evolved and explosive than the basketball player from the 1990s is absurd.

 
shader said:
Jordan had a higher fg% than Curry.  What does the "ultimate superstar treatment" mean?

My guess is that the ones arguing against Jordan were all 5 or 6 (or younger) when he retired and honestly have no idea what they are talking about.

The idea that the modern basketball player is somehow more evolved and explosive than the basketball player from the 1990s is absurd.
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The average player is unquestionably more evolved and explosive.  We know a ton more about the science of sport now and how to get more out of players' bodies.  IMO there's a little doubt at how much better the top end of players are across eras (especially if you gave them access to today's training and nutrition regiments), but where you would really the see the difference between today's players versus 20 years ago is how much better the 35-45 win NBA teams are now than the 35-45 teams of the past, or how much better non-contending teams are at lower levels of play than their predecessors.  

 
Zigg said:
The Jordan nonsense gets worse every year.  He was awesome.  One of the best ever, obvious argument for the best.  He was not superhuman.  He took a ton of shots and received the ultimate superstar treatment.

He was a great player on great teams with the best supporting player of all time.  He would not score 50 a night now, and Curry would be awesome in the 90s.
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Jordan was the best ever, not one of the best ever. He also received the ultimate superstar treatment.

He would not score 50 a night in the current NBA; he's lead the league in scoring, and would probably be in the low 30's most night's. 

Both teams have great defense, GS offers a new dimension in 3 point shooting that wasn't as much of a game plan in the 90's. Pippen would be the best guy possible to put on Durant, but Rodman (or Grant) would have difficulties having to cover 3 point shooters.

Curry would be a difficult guard for the Bulls.

Rodman would give GS fits on the boards and Jordan isn't really guardable although they do have a lot of bodies to try.

 
There is just no comparison to today's elite athletes and athletes of even two decades ago.  

Warriors Sweep. 

 
Dr Oadi said:
There is just no comparison to today's elite athletes and athletes of even two decades ago.  

Warriors Sweep. 
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I completely disagree with this. Please explain what makes any player -- any player -- on the current Warriors a better athlete than Jordan was in 1995-96. Jordan hit the weights and bulked up to deal with the pounding he was taking in the late 80s. He probably had a vertical higher than any player on the Warriors. He had quickness, great hands, and great basketball IQ. Please elaborate on how many current Warriors are greater athletes than he was and what made them greater.

Then move on to Pippen. Then to Rodman.

Then explain how it is that greater athletes automatically win, regardless of coaching and game strategy. Do the teams with the best athletes always win today? For example, did that happen in last year's Finals? Did it happen when the Spurs beat the Heat a few years ago? I'm sure we can come up with many examples where it isn't true.

This is a silly narrative.

 
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So many guys in here thinking Jordan scores 45-50 per night with modern rules citing no hand checking, but everyone forgets that other rules have changed too.  NBA is now permitted to run zone schemes.  The hybrid zone schemes teams run today would certainly create more "double teams" and help defense opportunities that never existed in Jordan's day.  

 
Galileo said:
So many guys in here thinking Jordan scores 45-50 per night with modern rules citing no hand checking, but everyone forgets that other rules have changed too.  NBA is now permitted to run zone schemes.  The hybrid zone schemes teams run today would certainly create more "double teams" and help defense opportunities that never existed in Jordan's day.  
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Bottom line is that guys like Harden, Westbrook, and Lebron seem to be able to go to the rim at will in today's game. Jordan was as good or better than them at that, and also had a much better midrange game than any of them.

 
Just Win Baby said:
I completely disagree with this. Please explain what makes any player -- any player -- on the current Warriors a better athlete than Jordan was in 1995-96. Jordan hit the weights and bulked up to deal with the pounding he was taking in the late 80s. He probably had a vertical higher than any player on the Warriors. He had quickness, great hands, and great basketball IQ. Please elaborate on how many current Warriors are greater athletes than he was and what made them greater.

Then move on to Pippen. Then to Rodman.

Then explain how it is that greater athletes automatically win, regardless of coaching and game strategy. Do the teams with the best athletes always win today? For example, did that happen in last year's Finals? Did it happen when the Spurs beat the Heat a few years ago? I'm sure we can come up with many examples where it isn't true.

This is a silly narrative.
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i completely agree with this

the 86 Celtics were an absolutely dominant team and did not do it with athleticism.  Neither do the Warriors of today.  Neither did two time MVP steve Nash.

Sure they didn't have combo guards like Russell Westbrook twenty years ago.  

If you want to argue that Michael Jordan wouldn't win the dunk contest today, I'm happy to be open to that.  

Do people really think David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Allen Iverson, Dominique Wilkins, Vince Carter, etc couldn't hang athletically today?  

 
Just Win Baby said:
Bottom line is that guys like Harden, Westbrook, and Lebron seem to be able to go to the rim at will in today's game. Jordan was as good or better than them at that, and also had a much better midrange game than any of them.
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And they all put up around 30 per game.  You honestly think Jordan is 15-20 per game better than these guys?

 
cubd8 said:
Who is saying that Jordan would average 45+ a game? I think he'd average 32-36 a game in today's league.
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ShamrockPride said:
Bulls regardless of rules.

-If 90's, Curry and String Bean would get knocked around so much. Nobody to body up with Rodman.

-If today's rules, Jordan averages 40-45 PPG. Rebounding carries across eras, Rodman would still kill it.

-I do think Iggy covering Jordan would be super interesting though
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shader said:
There's nothing bigger, stronger or faster about these Warriors.  

Lebron?  Yeah he's an other worldly guy.  But there's only one of him.  

If Steph Curry tried to go back and play in the mid-90s, he'd struggle to make the all-star team.  You think he's scoring 35 a night with Jordan/Pippen guarding him?  Not a chance.

I will admit if they played under today's rules the Warriors would have a better chance, but if that's the case, Jordan might average 50+ points a game.
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Mario Kart said:
They'd rotate the defenders all game so Curry would never know who's on him. Rodman would hold the basket with a Big White on the opposite side. Kerr wouldn't know how to defend it or the players wouldn't know how to battle it. 

Give them the handchecking and the Bulls would hold the scorers of today no problem. No hand checking, Jordan goes for 50+. 
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He'd lead the league in scoring, I'd stop there. He may lead the league in 50 or 40 point games, but his average would be in the 30's.

 
90s style of play the Bulls without a doubt.  Curry would not be a force and unless Green kicked MJ in the nuts and disabled him the Bulls in 5.

 
The steph curry would struggle to be an all-star in the 90s shtick is my favorite. :lmao:  Terry Porter made multiple all-star teams in the 90s. 

Some of you dorks really need to get over your childhood. Jordan was amazing but the NBA in the 90s kinda sucked. The league is so much better now. 

 
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Premier said:
The steph curry would struggle to be an all-star in the 90s shtick is my favorite. :lmao:  Terry Porter made multiple all-star teams in the 90s. 

Some of you dorks really need to get over your childhood. Jordan was amazing but the NBA in the 90s kinda sucked. The league is so much better now. 
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Guys who played in the NBA all think Jordan would average 40+ but a bunch of fat disasters who have likely never played competitive basketball disagree.

Lol at "dorks".  

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Guys who played in the NBA all think Jordan would average 40+ but a bunch of fat disasters who have likely never played competitive basketball disagree.

Lol at "dorks".  
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I think Jordan would be amazing in today's game. Taking it reading comp hit you hard on the SAT. 

 
On a slightly separate but related note...

at least in NBA terms I think conditioning/training/medical advances have largely allowed players to extend their careers more than made them more athletic in some way.  Kobe would've been absolutely done post Achilles and the guys with back injuries like Bird etc never really recovered at all.  Guys regularly last at a high level until their late 30s now and that never used to happen.  

i don't think they are bigger stronger and faster.  They just stay that way longer

 
Hilarious. Just think what the NBA will look like in another 20 years! Everyone will be 10' tall and able to dunk from half court. 

 
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