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MikeIke

Taking in a child from a troubled home 9-27 UPDATE we're still here

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Hi @MikeIke

I haven't been able to shake this today. It was especially chilling to read back through the entire thread knowing where it is now.

A couple of thoughts. And pardon me, but this is mostly me dumping out my thoughts here. 

1. "Rescuing" something is one of the best things humans can do. It's selfless and puts others ahead of you. Even when it's one's job, it's admired. There's a reason ER Doctors and Firefighters and Paramedics are elevated in society. Rightly so. I think we're wired to love something being "saved". There's a reason comeback stories are so loved. There's a reason people love the underdog. When all seems lost, the crowd cheers when the thing is saved at the last moment. In the best parts of ourselves, we are wired to be drawn towards "rescue". And nothing is more valued to rescue than a child. And the world is a better place for it. 

2. Another thing we value as humans is "keeping your word" or "doing what you say". From politicians to people selling products, we are continually disappointed when people don't keep their word. Whether it's a campaign promise or the promise the detergent will get the grass stain out, people want promises kept. Many individual people put great pride in doing what they say they'll do. Keeping a promise is universally admired. Breaking a promise is seen just as strongly but in the negative. 

3. Everyone has priorities. Yeah, we're all supposed to love everyone. Reality is there's a priority. For most people. It's family. Above pretty much everything else. In other words, most of us would have no trouble breaking the law if it meant feeding our family. Or doing things much bigger. Bottom line, protecting your wife and biological children are your priority. That's not just normal. That's commendable. I wish Padme's mother and father had felt this way more strongly. Bottom line is I'm guessing this isn't about comfort or convenience. This is about you protecting your wife and sons. 

If I'm understanding rightly, the problem lies with reconciling the first two points with the third.

You want to rescue Padme. And you want to keep your word to her, to others and to yourself. But it feels like doing those things are opposed to protecting your family. Both emotionally and maybe physically. I don't have the answer. But for me sometimes framing the problem helps. 

A couple more thoughts. Sadly, just as random.

Choices are awful sometimes. If it truly does come down to Padme or your family, I think you know what you're going to do. BUT, the question as I see it comes down to not "Padme or my family" but "IS IT TRULY a choice of Padme or my family"? Does that make sense? In other words, the ideal answer is you don't have to choose. That it's NOT really a choice of Padme or your family. And determining the answer is something probably only you and your wife can know. 

Which leads to the next point that you know is obvious but I'll say anyway. Your wife has to be a gigantic part of this. Something of this magnitude has to be you and your wife in unison. I'd caution to fully explore this as much as possible. You don't want this to resurface down the road that she felt strong-armed into something she wasn't 100% on board with. I'd err on the side of over-communicating here.

And maybe the biggest one is this: The hard reality is all you can do is all you can do. Specifically - You can't save everyone. And that sucks. I deal with this when we do the Homeless stuff downtown. My inclination is to bring five folks home with me every time and let them move in with me. But that's not realistic. And that's ok. The "would you save the dog or the drowning person" threads here were popular for a reason. Sometimes it's real and hard choices. It's awful, but sometimes life is like the battlefield MASH unit and you simply can't save them all. It's maybe one of the toughest parts for war for the survivors. But in the end, you have to accept what I opened with. All you can do is all you can do. 

I know you're not looking for affirmation or answers here. And I'm sorry this post was so rambling. I finally gave up on a cogent response and just started typing. But I'm guessing I speak for all of us when I say nobody at this point is going to fault you for whatever choice you make. We're with you.

Thank you for all you've done so far and all you're doing. It's people like you that give me faith in humanity. Thank you.

 

 

Edited by Joe Bryant
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Sending her off for long term treatment is not only what is needed here but the most loving thing you can do. Of course she won't see it that way and will probably try and make you feel guilty.

The fact that she tried to commit suicide rules out weekly therapy sessions working right now. A friend of mines 16 year old daughter is bipolar. She's tried therapy, having her sister babysit her while she's out (she's being home schooled now) all to no avail. She sometimes takes her meds. All in the course of a year she's tried 3 times to kill herself. Two times they awoke in the middle of the night from a noise to find her hanging. One time her sister found her unconscious. The OD caused her to go into cardiac arrest and she was in a coma for a couple days. We didn't know if she'd suffered any permanent deficits. Thankfully she is young and mostly recovered with some memory issues remaining 6 months later.

She doesn't want to send her daughter away for she'll feel like a failure. Thing is daughter isn't getting the kind of help she needs and isn't staying on her meds. So there will be another attempt and another. So far she's been lucky, but her luck is bound to run out. It's a terrible situation whatever you do or don't do. Ultimately you have to do what's best, which happens to be what's best for your family and Padme.

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i'll add, as the biological child in a family with lots of foster kids... you tend to get lost in the wash as others needs are more intense and take higher precedence.

maybe that's true of all child/parent relationships when one of the kids is more... needy... than the others, i dunno. but at least in my case, with the amount of attention some of the foster kids needed and how much pressure and stress it put on my parents.... my brother and i more or less got left behind for a long time.

it led to a lot of anger and resentment. not towards the kids because, well, we weren't that far apart in age and i could understand their perspective more readily but towards my parents because at a young age it felt a lot like they were choosing strangers over blood.

 

their intentions were/are selfless and amazing and they poured their souls in to caring for other people's children but the unintended blowback was years of troubled relations with their own biological children who would in theory be there forever and not on a transitory basis. 

something else to consider if this girl is really causing that much havoc. consider your biological kids in this, too. they're suffering and confused about this far more than maybe they are letting on / capable of letting on.

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How much you want to continue to fight for this girl is entirely up to you and your wife. 

Regardless of your decision, I hope you don't feel guilty about it. 

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One more thing I thought of. Counselors can be a huge resource here. Most people experience this kind of thing once in a lifetime if at all. Counselors, unfortunately, see it regularly. They likely can be way more objective than you can be. 

Not all will level with you fully like this but if you have one you think that will, I would ask something like, "Let's cut the clinical talk. If you were me in my situation with my wife and my boys, what would you do?"

They might not answer honestly. If they don't, that's ok. But you might get some insight if you ask it that way. Maybe worth a try. 

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3 hours ago, The Duff Man said:

How much you want to continue to fight for this girl is entirely up to you and your wife. 

Regardless of your decision, I hope you don't feel guilty about it. 

This is such a good post and point. No matter what way you choose I suspect you will feel some guilt, but you shouldn't. You did a great thing.

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22 hours ago, flranger said:

First of all, to even attempt this I have major respect.

That being said, everything I read suggests the decision is already made.   

 

22 hours ago, Frostillicus said:

Don't give up on this poor child.  Unless you need to.  Ugh.  I don't even know how to write what I'm trying to say.

First of all, this is the first chance I've had to respond to the plethora of responses last night. I will not get to each individual post, and I apologize for that. But these two stuck out in my mind as needing a response first. 

I'm not ready to give up on Padme. Not yet. My wife? Maybe, I don't know. Her words Yesterday were so emotion-driven that I'm not sure how much stock to put in them. 

Today I met individually with the floor counselor and the psychiatrist. Unfortunately, the counselor is not the same one who was in the room last night with my wife and Padme, so all she had to go on was the notes that the prior counselor had written. "Clinician observed a marked change in patient's temperament." That's it. That's all she had to say about Padme tearing my wife a new a hole. The psychiatrist told me "that means [Padme] got mad," but I felt it was my duty to tell her what actually happened and how my wife was attacked verbally. I repeated the same narrative with the counselor a few hours later, just to stress how mean Padme had been to my wife. 

Tonight we had a family session with me, my wife, Padme, and the counselor. It went - not great, not OK, but not horribly. Padme had an attitude the entire time and the counselor was surprised, because she had talked with her earlier and seen a completely different girl than what she was seeing now. 

So in a nutshell, today wasn't great but it also wasn't terrible. It was better than yesterday. This girl has a lot of problems and the psych ward she's in just isn't designed to cure or even diagnose them. It's a crisis ward - they want to make sure she's not going to try to kill herself and when they're assured of that, they're done. She needs more than that. 

Sorry to anyone who wanted closure, but at this point there's none to give. 

Thank you to everyone that took the time to read and reply. It means a lot to me to have a place where I can vent and get differing opinions from otherwise uninterested onlookers. 

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9 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

Hi @MikeIke

I haven't been able to shake this today. It was especially chilling to read back through the entire thread knowing where it is now.

A couple of thoughts. And pardon me, but this is mostly me dumping out my thoughts here. 

1. "Rescuing" something is one of the best things humans can do. It's selfless and puts others ahead of you. Even when it's one's job, it's admired. There's a reason ER Doctors and Firefighters and Paramedics are elevated in society. Rightly so. I think we're wired to love something being "saved". There's a reason comeback stories are so loved. There's a reason people love the underdog. When all seems lost, the crowd cheers when the thing is saved at the last moment. In the best parts of ourselves, we are wired to be drawn towards "rescue". And nothing is more valued to rescue than a child. And the world is a better place for it. 

2. Another thing we value as humans is "keeping your word" or "doing what you say". From politicians to people selling products, we are continually disappointed when people don't keep their word. Whether it's a campaign promise or the promise the detergent will get the grass stain out, people want promises kept. Many individual people put great pride in doing what they say they'll do. Keeping a promise is universally admired. Breaking a promise is seen just as strongly but in the negative. 

3. Everyone has priorities. Yeah, we're all supposed to love everyone. Reality is there's a priority. For most people. It's family. Above pretty much everything else. In other words, most of us would have no trouble breaking the law if it meant feeding our family. Or doing things much bigger. Bottom line, protecting your wife and biological children are your priority. That's not just normal. That's commendable. I wish Padme's mother and father had felt this way more strongly. Bottom line is I'm guessing this isn't about comfort or convenience. This is about you protecting your wife and sons. 

If I'm understanding rightly, the problem lies with reconciling the first two points with the third.

You want to rescue Padme. And you want to keep your word to her, to others and to yourself. But it feels like doing those things are opposed to protecting your family. Both emotionally and maybe physically. I don't have the answer. But for me sometimes framing the problem helps. 

A couple more thoughts. Sadly, just as random.

Choices are awful sometimes. If it truly does come down to Padme or your family, I think you know what you're going to do. BUT, the question as I see it comes down to not "Padme or my family" but "IS IT TRULY a choice of Padme or my family"? Does that make sense? In other words, the ideal answer is you don't have to choose. That it's NOT really a choice of Padme or your family. And determining the answer is something probably only you and your wife can know. 

Which leads to the next point that you know is obvious but I'll say anyway. Your wife has to be a gigantic part of this. Something of this magnitude has to be you and your wife in unison. I'd caution to fully explore this as much as possible. You don't want this to resurface down the road that she felt strong-armed into something she wasn't 100% on board with. I'd err on the side of over-communicating here.

And maybe the biggest one is this: The hard reality is all you can do is all you can do. Specifically - You can't save everyone. And that sucks. I deal with this when we do the Homeless stuff downtown. My inclination is to bring five folks home with me every time and let them move in with me. But that's not realistic. And that's ok. The "would you save the dog or the drowning person" threads here were popular for a reason. Sometimes it's real and hard choices. It's awful, but sometimes life is like the battlefield MASH unit and you simply can't save them all. It's maybe one of the toughest parts for war for the survivors. But in the end, you have to accept what I opened with. All you can do is all you can do. 

I know you're not looking for affirmation or answers here. And I'm sorry this post was so rambling. I finally gave up on a cogent response and just started typing. But I'm guessing I speak for all of us when I say nobody at this point is going to fault you for whatever choice you make. We're with you.

Thank you for all you've done so far and all you're doing. It's people like you that give me faith in humanity. Thank you.

 

 

Thank you, @Joe Bryant, for reading and replying in my thread. And most of what you say is true - I want to stick this out because I promised Padme (and the judge) that I would. I don't want to go back on my word.

Other posters have made comments like "if this were your biological child, what would you do?" That's a legitimate question. The obvious answer is, "I would do everything I possibly could to keep this child safe, happy, and healthy." 

The question for me is, do I feel that way about Padme? Honest answer - I just don't know. Part of me wants to be done with her, but another pet of me wants to fight with every part of my being. Just like I would for my two biological sons

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6 minutes ago, MikeIke said:

 

First of all, this is the first chance I've had to respond to the plethora of responses last night. I will not get to each individual post, and I apologize for that. But these two stuck out in my mind as needing a response first. 

I'm not ready to give up on Padme. Not yet. My wife? Maybe, I don't know. Her words Yesterday were so emotion-driven that I'm not sure how much stock to put in them. 

Today I met individually with the floor counselor and the psychiatrist. Unfortunately, the counselor is not the same one who was in the room last night with my wife and Padme, so all she had to go on was the notes that the prior counselor had written. "Clinician observed a marked change in patient's temperament." That's it. That's all she had to say about Padme tearing my wife a new a hole. The psychiatrist told me "that means [Padme] got mad," but I felt it was my duty to tell her what actually happened and how my wife was attacked verbally. I repeated the same narrative with the counselor a few hours later, just to stress how mean Padme had been to my wife. 

Tonight we had a family session with me, my wife, Padme, and the counselor. It went - not great, not OK, but not horribly. Padme had an attitude the entire time and the counselor was surprised, because she had talked with her earlier and seen a completely different girl than what she was seeing now. 

So in a nutshell, today wasn't great but it also wasn't terrible. It was better than yesterday. This girl has a lot of problems and the psych ward she's in just isn't designed to cure or even diagnose them. It's a crisis ward - they want to make sure she's not going to try to kill herself and when they're assured of that, they're done. She needs more than that. 

Sorry to anyone who wanted closure, but at this point there's none to give. 

Thank you to everyone that took the time to read and reply. It means a lot to me to have a place where I can vent and get differing opinions from otherwise uninterested onlookers. 

You're rescuing a lost and abandoned child.  Stick to it as much as you can.  

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I'm trying, Frosty. I'm not finished yet. My posts from last night might make it sound like I am, but they were made in the heat of the moment. 

Like the counselor told Padme tonight "Mike and [Mrs. Ike] came back today. They haven't given up, they want it to work." 

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I feel like the realization of the magnitude of what they bit off is frightening them.  It's barely a half year into the process.  To give up now seems like barely trying.

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1 minute ago, cockroach said:

I feel like the realization of the magnitude of what they bit off is frightening them.  It's barely a half year into the process.  To give up now seems like barely trying.

I know this is just an honest thought from you, but I couldn't disagree more.

Mike has done more than what 99% of the people in the world would ever have done for Padme.

And he's still fighting.

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16 minutes ago, MikeIke said:

I just hope that Padme wants it to work as well. I'm not sure that she does. 

Have your said this to her? If so, how was it said and where were you/what was the context? 

From your perspective, what would making it work look like? Does your wife share that perspective? Padme?

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5 hours ago, MikeIke said:

Thank you, @Joe Bryant, for reading and replying in my thread. And most of what you say is true - I want to stick this out because I promised Padme (and the judge) that I would. I don't want to go back on my word.

Other posters have made comments like "if this were your biological child, what would you do?" That's a legitimate question. The obvious answer is, "I would do everything I possibly could to keep this child safe, happy, and healthy." 

The question for me is, do I feel that way about Padme? Honest answer - I just don't know. Part of me wants to be done with her, but another pet of me wants to fight with every part of my being. Just like I would for my two biological sons

God Bless you @MikeIke

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On 5/17/2018 at 2:15 AM, flranger said:

First of all, to even attempt this I have major respect.

That being said, everything I read suggests the decision is already made.   

 

13 hours ago, mr. furley said:

their intentions were/are selfless and amazing and they poured their souls in to caring for other people's children but the unintended blowback was years of troubled relations with their own biological children who would in theory be there forever and not on a transitory basis. 

something else to consider if this girl is really causing that much havoc. consider your biological kids in this, too. they're suffering and confused about this far more than maybe they are letting on / capable of letting on.

 

6 hours ago, MikeIke said:

Sorry to anyone who wanted closure, but at this point there's none to give. 

Thank you to everyone that took the time to read and reply. It means a lot to me to have a place where I can vent and get differing opinions from otherwise uninterested onlookers. 

Mike, you are amazing for giving it your efforts here, and no matter what you decide I suspect you'll have the support of nearly everyone here, me in particular.  This community is amazing, and to have folks like Furley (and others) to weigh in who have actually lived this life is something I don't know how you replicate elsewhere.  And it's why there was such an uproar when things about the community change.  Fear of losing what we have, not the ability to rate pictures.

I just came out of a marriage where my spouse (not my childrens mother) was creating a never ending situation of emotional turmoil due to extreme anxiety.  For me, and this does not imply your choice is the same, I had to end the situation for the benefit of my own sanity and the relationship with my natural children.  This woman deeply loved me, but was also going to impact my number one priorities as well as my own personal health.  It was terrible.

I certainly have no skin in the game and if this thread continues for 20 years, I hope we all are able to at least have been a part of the support system.  Make no mistake about it though, deep emotional issues such as these are highly unlikely to go away.  They will get better, then worse, then better, then worse.  But they will continue.

I leave you with what advice I think I can give.  I have a very specific way I make big decisions, similar to the decision with my ex mentioned above, and one I would use here.  I pick a certain time frame depending on the confidence I need to have to know its the right answer, and every morning when I first wake up, before the days trials and tribulations impact out ability to think clearly, I ask my self the question what do I want to do about it?  It might be five days for smaller items, or something like a marriage or your situation it could be dozens or hundreds of days.  And I tell myself that if I cannot have a consistent answer each morning, then I know I need to keep fighting until I get to the point that I do.  And using that method of making big decisions has been incredibly valuable to me because its given me peace and confidence knowing I had a process in place that greatly enhances my ability to make the right decision.

All of us here I appreciate you, and all your family is going through.  This forum can be cathartic as well, so please continue to share as you travel this journey.

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We have some really good people around these parts. Amazing, actually.

Some of you may not realize it but you leave a lasting impression beyond just the time spent reading and posting here.

@MikeIke, welcome to that list. Wishing you and your family the best and for clarity in how to keep moving forward.

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5 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

We have some really good people around these parts. Amazing, actually.

Some of you may not realize it but you leave a lasting impression beyond just the time spent reading and posting here.

@MikeIke, welcome to that list. Wishing you and your family the best and for clarity in how to keep moving forward.

This. Been struggling a lot with words of encouragement. But this puts it as well as I could. Prayers for all of you, brother.

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8 hours ago, MikeIke said:

I just hope that Padme wants it to work as well. I'm not sure that she does. 

She is damaged and this is her only defense. She only knows the people that were supposed to help her and promised her the world have not only let her down, but hurt her. So she is trying to not let that happen again.

I am sure you have told her that you and your family are different and wouldn't do that to her, but so has everyone else and those other people were her blood. She is scared and skeptical. 

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i'll add this to the pile for further pondering

my parents took in two girls within a few weeks of each other. both came from terribly broken homes. their stories were just ####### horrible. i was old enough to hear just enough to make me sick & angry but what i heard only barely scratched the surface as i now understand it almost 30 years later.

one of the girls was about 9 at the time. very far behind her peers in terms of social skills, education, maturity. she was seeing a therapist, being provided special ed assistance at school, as much as the state would provide. she was woefully behind. could barely read. could not put 2+2 together whether literally or figuratively. had absolutely no sense of self worth confidence. could not look anyone in the eye or defend herself in any situation. just a shell of a child.

her mom was, what we now consider, special needs. not able to hold a job. heavily in to drinking and drugs. she "dated" men who came in and out of the family life. each one of them apparently worse than the one before. mostly just guys taking advantage of a helpless woman and her family for a place to stay and the ability to prey on her children and abuse the kid's mom. 

the poor kid was molested and beaten by her own mother, her biological father and a succession of scumbags for her entire life. ENTIRE life. they often times had no food. no heat. no lights. the landlord let the family stay in their place because he got to #### the mom whenever he wanted. 

 

and yet.. despite the horrors that waited for her at her biological mother's home, going home was the only thing she wanted. more than anything else in life. she fought, cried, got violent, you name it... thinking that if she ruined her foster situation she would be sent home to mom. 

she stayed with us for, i think it was, close to 2 years before the state deemed her mom fit to parent again after she had met certain criteria. the kid moved back in with her mom and younger sister and we lost touch for several years.

 

at the time i didn't/couldn't understand why someone would want to go back to a situation like she came from. how can anyone willingly live like that? how could someone think that a life lived that way was all they deserved? but as i grew older i came to realize ... she was a little kid. she didn't know anything else. she only knew that some happy lady in a suit came to her house one day with a couple cops and took her away from her mom and sister to live in a dormitory with other kids she didn't know who were pretty ####ed up.... and then she got shuttled to a house full of strangers for 2 years.

all she wanted was her mommy and she was going do everything her 9 year old mind could think of to get back there. the lure of family is incredibly strong for children. it's all you know when you're young. anything is normal. everything is normal. you don't know other kids aren't going through the same thing. you only know what someone that you don't know came and took you from your mom/dad and sent you to live with people you don't know who are trying to tell you what to do and possibly sending you to doctors who may or may not be drugging you "for your own benefit".

scary, confusing stuff. 

 

the girl is back in contact with my mom now who from all indications was the only parent she ever had that was worth a ####. her bio mom was later diagnosed with schizophrenia and  cycled through who knows how many men. at least one of whom we know tried to kill her but barely didn't succeed. who knows how many others beat her severely and mistreated her or what that did to her kids... i don't want to know. i'm sure my mom knows but i don't think i can handle hearing anymore than i already know.

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, msudaisy26 said:

She is damaged and this is her only defense. She only knows the people that were supposed to help her and promised her the world have not only let her down, but hurt her. So she is trying to not let that happen again.

I am sure you have told her that you and your family are different and wouldn't do that to her, but so has everyone else and those other people were her blood. She is scared and skeptical. 

This x 1000.  Make sure your wife understands this.  

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11 hours ago, MikeIke said:

I just hope that Padme wants it to work as well. I'm not sure that she does. 

This kid has been taught that the world will do nothing but reject her.  If she's pushing you away it's to confirm that bias that rightfully grew inside her for 12 years.

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This is a real rock and hard place thing now.

Rock: You made a promise to care for a little girl who no one has really ever cared for.  If you break that promise, you'll just confirm what she has grown up knowing, that nobody wants her.  Her life will absolutely continue to be an unabated trainwreck.  She will probably end up killing herself or in prison.

Hard Place: This girl was obviously poorly raised, and is also likely rejecting you and your family as a self defense mechanism.  If she rejects you first, you can't reject her.  So she is going out of her way to reject your family, and your wife in particular.  Maybe that is because of her past with her biological mother, maybe it is because of your wife's own issues and the kid figured out she'll react more.  Either way, her presence continues to disrupt your family's life is a major fashion.

 

What to do?  There is no easy answer here.  If it was me, I'd talk with my family (even the kids) and determine the way ahead together.  It impacts them all equally.  I would also keep in mind that your boys are learning a lot about how to handle the world by how you handle this.

 

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Q: How many therapist does it take to change a light bulb?

A: Just one, but the light bulb has to want to change.

 

Very tough situation you are in.  My thoughts to you and your family.  I hope Padme chooses to start working with you and not against you any further.  It's been her defense and much easier for her to set the terms of departure than any rejection from the latest family (as others have alluded to).

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3 hours ago, (HULK) said:

This is a real rock and hard place thing now.

Rock: You made a promise to care for a little girl who no one has really ever cared for.  If you break that promise, you'll just confirm what she has grown up knowing, that nobody wants her.  Her life will absolutely continue to be an unabated trainwreck.  She will probably end up killing herself or in prison.

Hard Place: This girl was obviously poorly raised, and is also likely rejecting you and your family as a self defense mechanism.  If she rejects you first, you can't reject her.  So she is going out of her way to reject your family, and your wife in particular.  Maybe that is because of her past with her biological mother, maybe it is because of your wife's own issues and the kid figured out she'll react more.  Either way, her presence continues to disrupt your family's life is a major fashion.

 

What to do?  There is no easy answer here.  If it was me, I'd talk with my family (even the kids) and determine the way ahead together.  It impacts them all equally.  I would also keep in mind that your boys are learning a lot about how to handle the world by how you handle this.

 

A lot of wisdom in this post.

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My god....  What a terrible situation.  Mike, you and your wife are saints for even attempting this.  I can't imagine how hard it is for you and your family.

The only thing I'll add is that this girl has never had anyone keep a promise to her in her entire life.  One of the reasons she may be acting out so much more now could be that she's trying to "break you".  It makes no sense, why would she try and hurt the people who are actively trying to help her?  Confirmation bias.  She's convinced herself that she's worthless and everything she's experienced in her life has proven her right.  You giving up on  her would only reinforce that.  

So, it basically comes down to what that little girl's life and happiness is worth?  Is it worth going through hell and dragging your family with you to accomplish it?  That's up to you, but know this... she's 12.  She's not gonna give anyone else a chance to prove her wrong IMO, so you're basically her last hope of seeing a normal life.  IMO, you can't choose to "try a little bit longer".  You have to decide right now if this fight is worth it or not, because even if she calms down from this one, it won't be the last time and likely won't even be the worst.  You either have to say "she's mine, I love her and will fight all beings in heaven, hell, and on earth to bring her happiness or you have to move on.  You can't test the waters anymore.  Once again, just my opinion.

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MikeIke, you are a saint for even considering doing what you did. I hope it all works best. You probably thought of it, so forgive me but I wonder if there is any sort of military boarding school she could attend? Or would she not meet the baseline emotional stability for that? Best of luck.

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As for us, tomorrow Padme is coming home. She seems to have taken reasonably well to the counseling they've been providing all week. The counselors feel she is not an immediate threat to herself or anyone else so she's ready for discharge. 

We're not giving up. I agree with everyone who has posted that's she's trying to push us in that direction in order to see what we do. I really don't want to confirm her suspicion. 

I guess tomorrow begins the next chapter of our story. I hope it has a happy ending. 

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3 minutes ago, Dedfin said:

MikeIke, you are a saint for even considering doing what you did. I hope it all works best. You probably thought of it, so forgive me but I wonder if there is any sort of military boarding school she could attend? Or would she not meet the baseline emotional stability for that? Best of luck.

We're looking into a Columbus organization called Buckeye Ranch. It's for at-risk, troubled, and criminal kids. The hospital is putting in a referral for us. They have a wide variety of services, including daily schooling. 

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@mr. furleythank you as well for sharing your story. It's kind of crazy how such an anonymous group as a fantasy football board can have people who have gone through the same kind of situation as we find ourself in now. It's really my favorite thing about the FFA - it's a great sounding board where you're going to get a lot of feedback, some it in the form of gems like these that seem to directly relate to what I'm going through right now. 

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I really have nothing to add, but I just wanted to give my support and say that it’s an amazing thing you are trying to do for this young girl, no matter the outcome. Best wishes for you and your family, and we’re all hopeful that this story ends well. 

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33 minutes ago, msudaisy26 said:

Get in line, toots.

 (@MikeIke, I can offer an endless supply of Bugles.)

I haven't wanted to post because I have nothing useful to impart, but want to add my support to you and your family, in which I'm including Padme.

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Just now, krista4 said:

Get in line, toots.

 (@MikeIke, I can offer an endless supply of Bugles.)

I haven't wanted to post because I have nothing useful to impart, but want to add my support to you and your family, in which I'm including Padme.

Bugles are disgusting, I win.

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2 minutes ago, msudaisy26 said:

Bugles are disgusting, I win.

:no:

Oh Daisy, you have no idea how wrong you are. Krista and I have a shared history and Bugles play a huge part in  it. 

But please, ladies, continue fighting over me. That's been enjoyable and a welcome :lol: moment for me when I desperately needed one. 

 

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Just now, MikeIke said:

:no:

Oh Daisy, you have no idea how wrong you are. Krista and I have a shared history and Bugles play a huge part in  it. 

But please, ladies, continue fighting over me. That's been enjoyable and a welcome :lol: moment for me when I desperately needed one. 

!

I must do some research on snacks, and I will come back prepared!

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1 hour ago, MikeIke said:

As for us, tomorrow Padme is coming home. She seems to have taken reasonably well to the counseling they've been providing all week. The counselors feel she is not an immediate threat to herself or anyone else so she's ready for discharge. 

We're not giving up. I agree with everyone who has posted that's she's trying to push us in that direction in order to see what we do. I really don't want to confirm her suspicion. 

I guess tomorrow begins the next chapter of our story. I hope it has a happy ending. 

Good to hear some good news here.  The process will be a long one. You'll see a lot of 2-3 steps forward, and then a step back, 2-3 forward, and then a step back. Actions speak louder than words, so keep showing her how much you all care and she will get better in time. The hard thing is no one really knows how long it will take. It could take years.

Are there any activities (sports, music, etc) that she can get involved in that everyone can support her in?

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I would offer a hug but I don’t want to step on Jessups toes. 

But for real I know it’s hard. I have a few friends who have stories like Furleys. It’s hard no matter what. You do your best. 

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20 minutes ago, Getzlaf15 said:

Good to hear some good news here.  The process will be a long one. You'll see a lot of 2-3 steps forward, and then a step back, 2-3 forward, and then a step back. Actions speak louder than words, so keep showing her how much you all care and she will get better in time. The hard thing is no one really knows how long it will take. It could take years.
 
Are there any activities (sports, music, etc) that she can get involved in that everyone can support her in? 

This is a big part of why Padme is so miserable. My kids are computer geeks and perfectly happy to sit in front of a monitor for 12 hours straight. Padme isn't. She wants to play volleyball, or basketball. I'm going to look into the options the local rec center has. 

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Just now, MikeIke said:

This is a big part of why Padme is so miserable. My kids are computer geeks and perfectly happy to sit in front of a monitor for 12 hours straight. Padme isn't. She wants to play volleyball, or basketball. I'm going to look into the options the local rec center has. 

great. find out what she likes and get her involved and support it.  When my daughter was 12, she took up the clarinet. That led to the marching band in HS and tons of supportive friends. She also played hoops and softball.  Get her on a team if she wants to and go cheer her on.

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12 hours ago, Adam Harstad said:

Anyway, Mary figured sooner or later we were going to abandon her, so unconsciously she wouldn't allow herself to get close to us. She kept trying to push us away, to make us abandon her and prove her right.

There's also the reverse of this.  She tries to make you abandon her so that when you don't she's reassured.  But that relief only lasts so long.  Then she has to do it again.

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14 hours ago, Getzlaf15 said:

great. find out what she likes and get her involved and support it.  When my daughter was 12, she took up the clarinet. That led to the marching band in HS and tons of supportive friends. She also played hoops and softball.  Get her on a team if she wants to and go cheer her on.

I've seen a couple of people mention band and I just wanted to also mention it as a consideration.

The quality and emphasis on music varies by school, but for school systems with a good band program, it's a tremendous environment for a kid to be in.  It's pretty much guaranteed to be a diverse group of kids, and the process of learning and practicing something new that's entirely non-intuitive (playing an instrument, and marching at the same time if its a marching band), and going through the process of gaining the discipline of being present and on time for practice and performances, as well as learning how to work together to produce a unified end result usually results in strong friendships and a large group of friends and casual friends.  I'm a big proponent of it it after seeing how much it contributed to my kids growth and happiness in school.

You never know what's going to click with a kid... Padme likely has never been exposed to music.

So just a thought to consider and blend in along with all the other truly tremendous advice in this thread.

Edited by NotSmart
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Thinking about you and the family (including Padma) today Mike. Hope it's going ok 

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15 hours ago, MikeIke said:

This is a big part of why Padme is so miserable. My kids are computer geeks and perfectly happy to sit in front of a monitor for 12 hours straight. Padme isn't. She wants to play volleyball, or basketball. I'm going to look into the options the local rec center has. 

What about something like taekwondo 

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