Ghost Rider
Footballguy
He basically posts how Baker Mayfield would if he were a poster on this forum, pulling his junk out and flashing it at everyone at the slightest hint of success.
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QB Baker Mayfield, TB (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter OU#1
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voiceofunreason
Footballguy
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
They did. After Jackson was fired. Mayfield set rookie records after that. Records that surpass all other QBs that have ever played in the NFL. Yet here you are deriding Mayfield’s season as though he’s just a run-of-the-mill middle-of-the-pack JAG QB.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Soulfly3
Footballguy
http://m.espn.com/nfl/leagueleaders?groupId=9&season=2018&seasonType=2&statgroup=passing&category=quarterbackRating
Best #19th ranked QB in league history. 27 TDs/14 interceptions is not very good. You guys are drunk on Kool-Aid. That's actually below average. 19 of 32. He's going to be good. But relax.
amnesiac
beer is good
why post a bunch of inflammatory statements and then say relax?
how about we both relax?
i’m willing to take a week off from this thread if you are.
A link to actual statistics isn't inflammatory. This wasn't opinion. It's statistics. If the actual stats are perceived as inlamatory, then I've proved my point
Great examples. As an eagles fan, I wasn't pretending Wentz was an MVP candidate with those 14 interceptions as a rookie. We thought he looked like a good draft pick and hoped he'd improve in year two. Which he did to an MVP level.
Dez
Footballguy
As a rookie.............them pretty damn good numbers for a rookie who didn't even get to start the 1st week of the season played with a team that had won 0 games the previous season.
How many other rookie QB's had to play with a team that had 0 wins the previous season ?
He broke the NFL record for TD passes in a season for a rookie.......
amnesiac
beer is good
“You guys are drunk on Kool-Aid”
not sure what you’re trying to prove in here, but i can assure you, it’s not going well.
just relax.
I'm discussing football. Not trying to prove anything. A few of you get upset that I'm not anointing Mayfield as Joe Montana Jr just yet. I've said a ton of positive things about him. I'm just not ready to do cartwheels over the 19th rated quarterback in the league.
amnesiac
beer is good
fair enough.
maybe take a few deep breaths and run on over to the Barkley thread and discuss football over there. (assumining you’re not just trying to be argumentative?)
If my presence here bothers you, stay out. Not that difficult. You're free to go to the Barkley thread though.
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amnesiac
beer is good
Brownsfan
Footballguy
As a Browns fan I can say Mayfield has given me a reason to be hopeful for the future. I don't know how good he will end up being. I do know that I haven't been this excited about a Brown's quarterback since Bernie Kosar. Last year I was doing yardwork on Sunday afternoons in November and December. This year I was in front of the television experiencing emotions that I haven't felt in years. I finally have a team to feel good about, that has a chance to win every week. Before Mayfield was here we had no chance to win unless we played perfectly and even then something bad had to happen to the opponent for us to have a chance at all. This is a great time to be a Browns fan
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DallasDMac
Footballguy
You've latched on to that one single number with pit bull-like tenacity. He was ranked 19th in his first year in the league, out pacing all other rookies. He broke two rookie QB records. His QBR ranking might carry more weight if you were referring to, say, Kirk Cousins. But for a first year QB, his performance was much more than that single number.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
You’re the only one whom I have seen mention Montana in this discussion.
Here’s where I think you’re getting a disconnect. You keep falling back to that QB19 stat and build an entire argument around it. It’s true, but it only tells half a story, which makes it misleading even while it is a fact. I believe a more accurate depiction of Mayfield’s ability and capability is measured by looking at his performance after Jackson was canned. There’s no way to deny that Mayfield was a much better QB when Jackson wasn’t holding him down.
So why don’t you look at the last half of the season as a better indicator? Is that something you’re even willing to consider?
He was far and away the best rookie quarterback. It's not even close. He may be the only one from this class still starting in two years. With the exception of Allen toward the end of the year, this class did not impress me at all. Mayfield is going to lead a very talented Browns team for years to come. The Browns nailed it with their pick. I only point out that he was the 19th best QB when a few people here start with the hyperbole. Or is it trolling? Soulfly spent five years doing the exact same act with Josh Gordon.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
Edit to add, the thumbs up is for taking the time to explain your position. Don't want you to take it as "Oh, thumbs up, he agrees Mayfield is great" kinda thing.
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Yes. I think it was a combination of replacing Jackson, Mayfield himself getting more comfortable with the NFL game speed, and a very young group of talented players learning to play with each other and how to win.
Peak
Footballguy
PFF released it's Final QB Rankings for the season, and Baker is listed at #9. The top 10 QBs in 2018, according to PFF:
Rank Name Overall Rating
1 Brees 94.7
2 Mahomes 93.2
3 Luck 91.1
4 Rivers 90.8
5 Brady 90.7
6 Rodgers 89.9
7 Wilson 87.2
8 Goff 85.5
9 Mayfield 84.5
10 Ryan 84.3
According to PFF:
Oh, and how did the other rookie QBs fair this year? Darnold, Allen, Rosen, and Jackson, were ranked #26, #25, #32, and #31, respectively. Baker also outperformed other up and coming names like Watson (#11), Wentz (#13), and Mariota (#17),
I think if given the larger picture of what Baker did to change a losing culture and fractured organization, turning them into something positive that deliver results no matter the opponent - makes him OROY. The stats are the starting point, but how one rookie has turned around a franchise and empowered a fan base are inspiring. I think those are the stories that would resonate more than stats. This story is something the NFL should embrace and would help bring a new face to the shield that resonates with people and helps create new fans. Just like Mahomes going crazy in KC, Baker awakening a sleeping giant near Lake Erie should be celebrated.
Rank Name Overall Rating
1 Brees 94.7
2 Mahomes 93.2
3 Luck 91.1
4 Rivers 90.8
5 Brady 90.7
6 Rodgers 89.9
7 Wilson 87.2
8 Goff 85.5
9 Mayfield 84.5
10 Ryan 84.3
According to PFF:
Huge accomplishment for a Rookie QB who only started 13 games, and led an 0-16 team to a 6-7 record - despite having to work/learn from 2 OCs and 2 HCs in a span of 4 games. The fact that he helped lead a team to a 5-3 record following a coaching change is unprecedented. The kid balled out the last half of the year when the coaches finally handed him the reigns and said "This team is yours". If Hue hadn't been playing political mind-games to position himself within the FO the first half of the season, he may still be the HC of the Browns today. If Haley wasn't trying to sabotage Hue by putting a bland offense on the field the first half of the season, he might still have a job and started to course correct the "stale, out-dated OC game plans" he's become known for nowadays. These two buffoons shot themselves in their foot, while Baker has helped make Freddie and Gregg shine over the last 8 games.
Oh, and how did the other rookie QBs fair this year? Darnold, Allen, Rosen, and Jackson, were ranked #26, #25, #32, and #31, respectively. Baker also outperformed other up and coming names like Watson (#11), Wentz (#13), and Mariota (#17),
I think if given the larger picture of what Baker did to change a losing culture and fractured organization, turning them into something positive that deliver results no matter the opponent - makes him OROY. The stats are the starting point, but how one rookie has turned around a franchise and empowered a fan base are inspiring. I think those are the stories that would resonate more than stats. This story is something the NFL should embrace and would help bring a new face to the shield that resonates with people and helps create new fans. Just like Mahomes going crazy in KC, Baker awakening a sleeping giant near Lake Erie should be celebrated.
I posted a link to the official NFL statistics. Perhaps the league should switch to this other standard. But until it does, it doesn't change the fact that he was officially the 19th ranked quarterback.
beer 30
Footballguy
Stats are cool and all but frankly I don't care, kid is good and has/will transform CLE back into a powerhouse. You disagree? Cool, we'll stomp your ### regardless of if you believe in the kid or not.
What has caught my attention is NFL Fines Baker Mayfield $10,026 for Pantomimed Unfurling of Loins. Say that out loud...pantomiming unfurling of loins. Sounds like something Bugs Bunny would say on Saturday morning in days of old. I giggled like a school girl when I heard it today.
https://slate.com/culture/2018/12/baker-mayfield-cleveland-browns-crotch-celebration.html
What has caught my attention is NFL Fines Baker Mayfield $10,026 for Pantomimed Unfurling of Loins. Say that out loud...pantomiming unfurling of loins. Sounds like something Bugs Bunny would say on Saturday morning in days of old. I giggled like a school girl when I heard it today.
https://slate.com/culture/2018/12/baker-mayfield-cleveland-browns-crotch-celebration.html
Peak
Footballguy
Actually you linked to ESPN's version of NFL statistics. The QBR, which you hype with Baker being #19, is an ESPN concoction that has been debated and argued since it was unveiled. It's not a true measurement, but something to suit ESPN. If you have doubts, all you need to do is look for the best QBR of all time, and it will point to a 2 INT game with Charlie Batch. Like most stats, there are flaws, and the QBR is not a heavily followed criteria. My second point to this is go to the NFL site and let me know where QBR is within their stat list. I'll hang up and listen to your answer.I posted a link to the official NFL statistics. Perhaps the league should switch to this other standard. But until it does, it doesn't change the fact that he was officially the 19th ranked quarterback.
PFF has been utilized by many, including the NFL, as a true leader in stats and how they pertain to on-field performance. I thought you might latch on to that, as it does paint a good picture for Barkley as well. But you can continue using ESPN's non-sense, if that's more your speed.
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I don't really use anyone's stats. I couldnt care less what PFF thinks or ESPN thinks. I was replying to people mentioning him as an MVP discussion. Even the cherry picked rankings that you chose to use has him as the 9th best QB. So let's say he's somewhere between 9 and 19. I'd stick to ROY discussions. There he has a 50/50 chance.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
For a guy who says he doesn't use stats you only have one stat and have used it again, and again, and again.I posted a link to the official NFL statistics. Perhaps the league should switch to this other standard. But until it does, it doesn't change the fact that he was officially the 19th ranked quarterback.
Peak
Footballguy
Cmon....you've been banging the #19 QB since before the MVP discussion. You have to own that one.
Not cherry-picked. Saw it online today and thought it spoke well to what a Rookie QB with less than a full season of starts has managed to accomplish. If I want to cherry-pick stats, I can go to his RedZone TD% numbers, or his UnderPressure Comp% numbers...those would be cherry-picking (because both are actually very, very good!)
Agreed, and this is where I've always been. You keep banging the drum for Barkley, and I'll do the same for Baker. Both are deserving, but I think Baker is the better all around resume outside of stats. NFL is a team game, and very rarely can one person change the face and the fate of a franchise so suddenly and positively the way Baker has done this year. That is something that even you can say Barkley hasn't done.
Pssst. I'll type it slower this time so you understand. I actually had to search Google for '2018 quarterback stats'. I was curious because someone (or maybe a few people) mentioned Mayfield as a MVP candidate. It thought that was the craziest thing I ever heard considering he led a 7-win team. Thought maybe his stats were better than I thought. So I looked it up. Guy above said 'You can continue to use ESPN', to which I said I don't really use anyone's. This was a one time thing. Hope this helps.For a guy who says he doesn't use stats you only have one stat and have used it again, and again, and again.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Anytime you think you have to explain something to me is a day that they take you away. You're saying nothing new and are repeating nothing.
Well apparently you were confused. I like helping out confused posters. I'm very nice that way.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Yet another great football take, worthy of the Shark Pool HOF. Take a pill kid, give it a rest. You're not funny or cute. Your take sucks and at this point you know it so stop.
What is 'my take'? I'll give it to you in a nutshell. tell me where I'm off. I'll list it in individual lines so you can tell me my errors and I can learn from you.
Cleveland made an excellent pick by taking Mayfield #1 overall. They've had a couple great drafts in a row and have accumulated a lot of young talent.
He played an integral part of Cleveland improving to a 7 win team. He, and the team, got better as the season progressed as the coaching improved and the young players started to gel.
He, along with Saquon Barkley, are the front runners for OROY. I give a slight edge to Barkley, but could see it going either way.
Cleveland has a very bright future with Mayfield at the helm of a talented team with a great O-line. I predict further improvement next year with a probable wild card birth. And could see them controlling the division for several years after that.
If he continues to improve, I can see him eventually becoming a top 5 QB talent in the league as guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers get old/retire and young gunslingers like Mahomes, Goff, Wentz, etc become the cream of the crop.
There you go. That's my 'take'. As it's been all along. It's not my fault that you and a few others get offended when realistic posters pump the brakes on the "Slam dunk!" ROY and/or league MVP talk. I didn't realize this was an 'Idolize King Mayfield' thread. I thought it was actual football discussion.
So anyway, please let me know where 'my take' is off. Thanks
Mayfield is a superstar in the making. It's that simple. I own him and Wentz in dynasty. I don't see the same ceiling on Wentz. He's regressed to where he uses Ertz as a crutch. I hope he can snap out of it and I think he can but he has injury issues as well. Mayfield is way above Wentz and the only 3 year and under vet above him is Mahomes. Haven't been this psyched about my starting FFL QB since the Favre days. If you can't watch him and see the incredible talent (Mahomes as well) then you can't scout QBs.
The no look handoff You don't even see vets coming up with these type of moves. Tells me he's thinking about how to fool the D. This didn't come from a coach. THAT is a superstar in the making.
The fake handoff
His TD celebrations are great too.
Couldn't find the fake handoff that was for a 1st down on 4th down but it faked out the LB completely. Mayfield hid the ball behind his leg. Stuf like that is why he is so far ahead of everyone else at this stage of his career. He's doing things 10-15 year vets can't do.
He's also spreading the ball around like a 10 year vet. It's hard to have any receiver in FF because of that. Great for Mayfield owners.
The no look handoff You don't even see vets coming up with these type of moves. Tells me he's thinking about how to fool the D. This didn't come from a coach. THAT is a superstar in the making.
The fake handoff
His TD celebrations are great too.
Couldn't find the fake handoff that was for a 1st down on 4th down but it faked out the LB completely. Mayfield hid the ball behind his leg. Stuf like that is why he is so far ahead of everyone else at this stage of his career. He's doing things 10-15 year vets can't do.
He's also spreading the ball around like a 10 year vet. It's hard to have any receiver in FF because of that. Great for Mayfield owners.
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I agree with you on Mayfield. But Wentz hasn't regressed. He was the best QB in the entire league in 2017 and then tore both his ACL and PCL. He came back in 10 months for an injury combination that normally takes a year and a half to be 100% from. On top of that, he played 3 or 4 games with a broken vertebrae. I'll agree with the locking-in-on-Ertz thing though. Probably a result of no offseason work with his receivers or training camp. Ertz is his best friend and security blanket. He didn't do that in 2017 when healthy and hopefully will get back to what made him the league MVP the year before.
In my eyes, Mahomes is the cream of the crop of young QBs. He also has the most talent around him (along with Goff). If I was starting a team today, I'd be very happy with Mahomes, Wentz, Goff, or Mayfield. All are young talents who will be the cream of the crop for the next decade or so, ala Brady/Rodgers/Brees this past decade.
That was why I referred to him regressing. It wasn't a big regression but he's got to get back to spreading it around. I've seen it before. Matt Ryan with Tony G. Could be play calling, who knows. It's just concerning when the backup is doing a better job of it.
Mahomes is definitely #1. He's the only one I would take over Mayfield in the whole NFL. I'm a big fan of Wentz and Goff. I knew they were NFL QB material. Didn't scout Mahomes because I had just drafted Wentz to be the future. Wish I had because I would have grabbed Mahomes. Took Mayfield because of Wentz injury and I know Mayfield is tough. He exceeded my expectations by a ton.
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As an Eagles fan, I have zero worries about any regression. He's young and brilliant with a photographic memory. and he's like Brees as far as slave to film study. Even at a percentage of being healthy, he completed 70% of his passes for 21 TDs and 7 int. His bad year is better than most QBs good years. I'd still take Mahomes over him if starting a team from scratch. But then it would be Wentz.
-OZ-
Footballguy
I'd still put Wentz and Goff ahead of Baker but don't fault anyone for liking Mayfield.
Superflex:
Daniel, Chase CHI QB 34.555
Goff, Jared LAR QB 443.7312
Hill, Taysom NOS QB 25.166
Mannion, Sean LAR QB -0.1012
Mayfield, Baker CLE QB (R) 275.7011
Wentz, Carson PHI QB (O) 249.509
(now if I could just get my receivers to perform)
Peak
Footballguy
Is this where we still put the superflous rookie of the year contributions from those with opinions outside of this board? Asking for a friend.....
Baker Mayfield is the PFT Offensive Rookie of the Year
Baker Mayfield is the PFT Offensive Rookie of the Year
Someone should tell Florio and the PFT gang that Mayfield is on the 19th rated QB and therefore cannot be in consideration for MVP. Otherwise, we Browns fans appreciate the slight node to our fanaticism.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Is this where we still put the superflous rookie of the year contributions from those with opinions outside of this board? Asking for a friend.....
Baker Mayfield is the PFT Offensive Rookie of the Year
Someone should tell Florio and the PFT gang that Mayfield is on the 19th rated QB and therefore cannot be in consideration for MVP. Otherwise, we Browns fans appreciate the slight node to our fanaticism.
Although one would have to admit, it's easier for Mayfield to "transform" the franchise than it is for Mahomes, Prescott, Watson, or even Lamar Jackson. Even if Baker lost 7x the number of games Jackson lost.
Mayfield is definitely graded on a different curve than everyone else. The team had accumulated a boatload of top picks the last few years. And their own pick is always top 5. The way the league works, it's impossible to stay horribly bad for long. Mayfield played great and improved as the season went on. But saying he's completely transformed them is a huge discredit to guys like Myles Garrett, Denzel Ward, Nick Chubb, Bitonio, Zeitler, Jarvis Landry, etc. Mayfield deserves accolades, but I'm sure the rest of the young guys who improved at the same time just love hearing that it was him that made the Browns better.
Although one would have to admit, it's easier for Mayfield to "transform" the franchise than it is for Mahomes, Prescott, Watson, or even Lamar Jackson. Even if Baker lost 7x the number of games Jackson lost.
