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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Thread (7 Viewers)

It is kind of silly she drags in so many different agendas under the umbrella of the green new deal.   The discussion of greenhouse emissions is huge enough without adding fair employment practices, unions, education, and health care.   The worst part of her proposal is she wants to shut down nuclear plants just because she does not like them, disregarding the fact those are by far our biggest source of green power.  
They are hugely expensive and they produce harmful waste. They really aren't all that much a source of clean power once you take into account that they produce waste that you can turn into a dirty bomb and that no one wants stored anywhere near them.

 
Lol, I’m trying to think of a place I want to take a train *to from NO. Maybe Fort Walton? Admittedly Houston, but that’s already a 50 minute flight. I have to say it works pretty well in the northeast though. Connect what’s there and build out to major cities in upstate NY, Ontario, MI, OH, IL. It makes sense in Europe because people are always connecting to major cities. There are vast swaths of America where you really don’t have anywhere important to connect to, and I consider myself in that area. This would be a massive program on the order of the interstate but instead of all of America benefitting would likely be just the left/right coasts.

Basic local regional rail might make more sense. Maybe to the northshore. We need rail to the airport here. We actually for some reason just built a new airport (seriously, no one knew) and we don’t have a road path to it. That’s the level of government we deal with here.
That's light rail and doesn't have anything really to do with high speed rail.  And a lot of cities are already doing it, they have to, because there isn't enough room to build larger and larger highways nor the capacity to park all the cars.  Denver's light rail is pretty in tact and we've been building in Houston and Seattle.   It doesn't replace aircraft, it replaces car travel.

 
They are hugely expensive and they produce harmful waste. They really aren't all that much a source of clean power once you take into account that they produce waste that you can turn into a dirty bomb and that no one wants stored anywhere near them.
If you truly believe CO2 is the biggest threat to us and even threaten our existence, these are minor negatives.  Nukes are the clear winner in terms of cost and scaleability.  To then argue for removing existing ones is pretty Looney. 

 
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It is kind of silly she drags in so many different agendas under the umbrella of the green new deal.   The discussion of greenhouse emissions is huge enough without adding fair employment practices, unions, education, and health care.   The worst part of her proposal is she wants to shut down nuclear plants just because she does not like them, disregarding the fact those are by far our biggest source of green power.  
Actually it would be silly to propose transforming the economy without addressing the individuals that would be displaced.  Especially considering the number of individuals that have been left behind by the transformation that has occurred the past 40 years or so.

However the Green New Deal isn't something that was crafted in 2019 by AOC, but has it origins in the global economic mess a little less than 15 years ago.  It is a collection of proposals to restore prosperity while addressing the threat of climate change.  It mirrors the American New Deal that coincided with the threats that lead to WWII.  Some things have changed since the Great Recession of course, but if anything the need for a UHC and UBI have grown not diminished and the need is only going to grow if we move more towards a green economy.

 
If you truly believe CO2 is the biggest threat to us and even threaten our existence, these are minor negatives.  Nukes are the clear winner in terms of cost and scaleability.  To then argue for removing existing ones is pretty Looney. 
If nukes are the clear winner why are there no investors?  There was a brief renaissance a decade ago but the same old cost overruns and construction delays have doomed most all of those projects to the same fate of those in the late '70s and early '80s.   Nuclear is rejected by a market that no longer concerns itself with growth but instead quarterly profits.  Hm, sounds like another argument for that 70% marginal tax rate.

 
Horrible post making it personal instead of focusing on the topic.


He seems to do that often especially to new people.
I made nothing personal.  Gave good advice to a new person to read a thread.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Id ask you try the same, talk about the topic rather than the person.  I was asked a question, I answered.  Nobody asked you two to chime in.

 
I made nothing personal.  Gave good advice to a new person to read a thread.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Id ask you try the same, talk about the topic rather than the person.  I was asked a question, I answered.  Nobody asked you two to chime in.
So you just admitted you didn't talk about the topic and made it personal.

 
So for all the accountants figuring out how much the green New Deal will cost have you figured out how much not doing things in an expeditious manner is going to cost? It's estimated that climate change has already cost the u.s. nearly 400 billion dollars in the last 10 years it's further estimated that climate change will reduce GDP by at least 10% in the coming years for those at home right now with today's GDP that somewhere in the neighborhood of almost 2 trillion dollars per year so add the increased costs because we have to keep cleaning up after storms sure seems like this whole we don't want to spend any money thing isn't going to work out for us one way or the other. And by the way how much is Miami worth to you or  New Orleans or New York City how much are they worth when ocean levels rise and they find themselves engulfed in floods if not completely flooded how much do you think that's going to cost? How much do you think it's going to cost the US when the breadbasket moves into Canada? How much do you think these major floods in the midwest that have completely destroyed the corn crop how much do you think that's going to cost us as consumers and as a country?

If you ask me you guys need to be doing a lot of new calculations.
These points are all valid. But there’s also a lot you’re missing, and it has to do with political realities. 

The public will never allow politicians like AOC to hurt American industry in the anticipation of trying to prepare for change in the future. Most of the public agrees that climate change is real and they want something done, but the minute you start taking away their goodies that changes. And this is the fundamental problem with the Green New Deal. You want to spend trillions fighting climate change? The public will back you on that so long as you either borrow it or tax somebody else- not them. The public’s mantra on this sort of thing is “find a way to do it without bothering me.” And that’s why the GND is doomed to fail. 

I’ve made this point before: in order to effectively fight climate change we need to follow the Manhattan Project/space program example: which means we need to tell the public: look we solved it for you! And toss the solution in their laps. 

 
These points are all valid. But there’s also a lot you’re missing, and it has to do with political realities. 

The public will never allow politicians like AOC to hurt American industry in the anticipation of trying to prepare for change in the future. Most of the public agrees that climate change is real and they want something done, but the minute you start taking away their goodies that changes. And this is the fundamental problem with the Green New Deal. You want to spend trillions fighting climate change? The public will back you on that so long as you either borrow it or tax somebody else- not them. The public’s mantra on this sort of thing is “find a way to do it without bothering me.” And that’s why the GND is doomed to fail. 

I’ve made this point before: in order to effectively fight climate change we need to follow the Manhattan Project/space program example: which means we need to tell the public: look we solved it for you! And toss the solution in their laps. 
This is ridiculous. Green energy is the next multi-trillion dollar industry. Leading in Green Energy is how America stays a dominant economic force. Stop trying to save buggy makers at the expense of auto makers.. Green energy already employs over a hundred thousand people it has more employees than coal it has more employees than oil and gas it's going to dwarf both of those Industries put together soon enough. This idea that oh my God we will lose some industry is ridiculous and you're just falling into the trap of the people who don't want to do anything because maybe that money would not go into their pockets.

 
This is ridiculous. Green energy is the next multi-trillion dollar industry. Leading in Green Energy is how America stays a dominant economic force. Stop trying to save buggy makers at the expense of auto makers.. Green energy already employs over a hundred thousand people it has more employees than coal it has more employees than oil and gas it's going to dwarf both of those Industries put together soon enough. This idea that oh my God we will lose some industry is ridiculous and you're just falling into the trap of the people who don't want to do anything because maybe that money would not go into their pockets.
You’re still not getting what I’m saying. You want to offer people new jobs in new industries? Great. But you had better do that before you take away their old industries. 

We have had industrial change in this country before, but it’s always been bottom up, begun in the private sector. The GND would be an attempt to force it top down by the federal government. We’ve never tried that. Other countries have; the results weren’t good. But that doesn’t matter because the political will for it isn’t here. 

We will end up doing quite a bit of what GND is calling for, but it will be over time and without as much organization as what is being proposed. Bits and pieces. 

 
You’re still not getting what I’m saying. You want to offer people new jobs in new industries? Great. But you had better do that before you take away their old industries. 

We have had industrial change in this country before, but it’s always been bottom up, begun in the private sector. The GND would be an attempt to force it top down by the federal government. We’ve never tried that. Other countries have; the results weren’t good. But that doesn’t matter because the political will for it isn’t here. 

We will end up doing quite a bit of what GND is calling for, but it will be over time and without as much organization as what is being proposed. Bits and pieces. 
Coal plants are already more expensive than solar, companies are shutting them down and not building new ones. Gas plants are next. That is private industry doing that. So the GND may include some tax breaks or R&D money but this is fiat accompli.  This is the new field for those in those dying industries and it's a better fit than coding. 

 
Not sure if that helps your point.  But if the party who is suppose to be 100% behind the metoo movement puts up a groper as their presidential candidate, you can write off the movement as officially dead.  It is on life-support as it is, as it has clearly lost its steam.  
The democratic party has not put up Joe Biden as their presidential candidate. HTH

 
Gas is largely a byproduct of oil drilling.  It will have a place for quite a while - at least until the train to Honolulu is completed.
Right now solar is overtaking the smaller gas generation plants that are used as supplements for when the grid has spikes in demand. Just like coal it is becoming economically unfeasible to build and maintain the more expensive option. Not quite there yet but as prices continue to fall it won't be that long before the just dont build new ones and they phase out the older ones. Trains not withstanding. 

 
Hmmmm.  I wonder what the word 'if' means.....He is currently leading in all the polls despite the numerous examples.   
Just because Joe elects to run that doesn't mean he wins. Here's Joe's history as a presidential candidate. He's looking good pre announce and then the longer he campaigns the worse his numbers get. He has a lot of issues to overcome to get the nomination starting with his tendency to be a gaffe machine. Running is not the same as winning and it's a long time to the primaries. 

 
AOC shuts down the haters.

MSNBC‏ @MSNBC 1h1 hour ago

"I'm proud to be a bartender...there is nothing wrong with being a working person in the United States of America and there is everything dignified about it," Rep. Ocasio-Cortez says.

https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/aoc-shuts-down-the-haters-1474546243609?cid=sm_npd_ms_tw_ma
She pulled a Hillary': Critics mock AOC for 'affecting an accent' while speaking to a mostly black audience in NYC alongside Al Sharpton, while calling for 'reparations for Black Americans'

link

 
Right now solar is overtaking the smaller gas generation plants that are used as supplements for when the grid has spikes in demand. Just like coal it is becoming economically unfeasible to build and maintain the more expensive option. Not quite there yet but as prices continue to fall it won't be that long before the just dont build new ones and they phase out the older ones. Trains not withstanding. 
Just as a note right now in the Permian natural gas is at negative prices.  Notwithstanding nuclear, the energy density of oil is impossible to beat.  Therefore oil, and by corollary natural gas, aren't going anywhere soon.  They will be in the energy mix for a long time.  

If we could magically export all this NG to China that would do more for our CO2 emissions than just about anything else that can be done at this juncture.

 
Just as a note right now in the Permian natural gas is at negative prices.  Notwithstanding nuclear, the energy density of oil is impossible to beat.  Therefore oil, and by corollary natural gas, aren't going anywhere soon.  They will be in the energy mix for a long time.  

If we could magically export all this NG to China that would do more for our CO2 emissions than just about anything else that can be done at this juncture.
Or we could leave it in the ground. 

 
AOC shuts down the haters.

MSNBC‏ @MSNBC 1h1 hour ago

"I'm proud to be a bartender...there is nothing wrong with being a working person in the United States of America and there is everything dignified about it," Rep. Ocasio-Cortez says.

https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/aoc-shuts-down-the-haters-1474546243609?cid=sm_npd_ms_tw_ma
AOC keeps hitting home runs. She can hit any pitch at any time. She is what America needs right now. She is a voice of sanity in the asylum of the insane.

 
Think about the mechanics of that.  It would involve Venezuela levels of asset confiscation.
It doesn't have to. Policy could be put place that keeps it from being viable financially. But at some point the ability of this planet to support life is going to trump making money.

 
Not sure if that helps your point.  But if the party who is suppose to be 100% behind the metoo movement puts up a groper as their presidential candidate, you can write off the movement as officially dead.  It is on life-support as it is, as it has clearly lost its steam.  
You know, you’ve written this sort of thing before. Despite my many disagreements with you I consider you a pretty smart guy, but these comments show a terrible lack of understanding of social change. It’s as if, when Obama came out against gay marriage in 2008, you had predicted that the gay marriage movement was officially dead. For all I know, maybe you did. 

Putting aside the seriousness of the charges against Joe Biden (not too much IMO) social movements are impervious to hypocrisy. You don’t seem to get this. The me too movement is a grass roots movement; politicians didn’t create it, they responded to it. So nothing that politicians do or don’t do will affect it too much. Sometimes movements take two steps back before taking 4 steps forward. But the movement forward is always inevitable. 

 
AOC shuts down the haters.

MSNBC‏ @MSNBC 1h1 hour ago

"I'm proud to be a bartender...there is nothing wrong with being a working person in the United States of America and there is everything dignified about it," Rep. Ocasio-Cortez says.

https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/aoc-shuts-down-the-haters-1474546243609?cid=sm_npd_ms_tw_ma
There’s nothing particularly special about it either though. She’s right that we shouldn’t disparage bartenders but we don’t need to glorify them. 

The Republicans made a huge deal out of that Joe the Plumber guy- he was supposed to be important because he was an average joe. It’s a dangerous form of populism that I don’t like very much. 

 
There’s nothing particularly special about it either though. She’s right that we shouldn’t disparage bartenders but we don’t need to glorify them. 

The Republicans made a huge deal out of that Joe the Plumber guy- he was supposed to be important because he was an average joe. It’s a dangerous form of populism that I don’t like very much. 
For crying out loud, Tim. She isn't glorifying being a bartender, she is responding to her critics suggesting it is a lesser job, or something that she should have to apologize for. This is not analogous to Joe the Plumber, who was trotted out there to show that, contrary to the stereotype, there actually are average working people in the GOP (that isn't a case one has to make with Democrats).

Here is the quote with a little more context.

AOC: "I'm proud to be a bartender. Ain't nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with working retail, folding clothes for other people to buy. There is nothing wrong with preparing the food that your neighbors will eat."

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1114218894439342081

 
You know, you’ve written this sort of thing before. Despite my many disagreements with you I consider you a pretty smart guy, but these comments show a terrible lack of understanding of social change. It’s as if, when Obama came out against gay marriage in 2008, you had predicted that the gay marriage movement was officially dead. For all I know, maybe you did. 

Putting aside the seriousness of the charges against Joe Biden (not too much IMO) social movements are impervious to hypocrisy. You don’t seem to get this. The me too movement is a grass roots movement; politicians didn’t create it, they responded to it. So nothing that politicians do or don’t do will affect it too much. Sometimes movements take two steps back before taking 4 steps forward. But the movement forward is always inevitable. 
FYI, I acknowledged gay marriage was going to win at the Supreme Court level years before it did.  You see my comments as terrible, but there are many articles even from feminists who see the metoo movement as losing steam and dying.  It jumped the shark with Kavanaugh and continues it's downward trend with the Fairfax situation and now possibly with Biden.  The movement has too much partisanship in it.   That has been the problem with feminism in the past, conservative women are not included.    

 
It is apparently a new Trump and GOP talking point:

Meridith McGraw‏ @meridithmcgraw 41m41 minutes ago

"The Green New Deal...proposed by a wonderful young bartender," Trump said referring to AOC. "We'll take trains to Hawaii and Australia."

 
FYI, I acknowledged gay marriage was going to win at the Supreme Court level years before it did.  You see my comments as terrible, but there are many articles even from feminists who see the metoo movement as losing steam and dying.  It jumped the shark with Kavanaugh and continues it's downward trend with the Fairfax situation and now possibly with Biden.  The movement has too much partisanship in it.   That has been the problem with feminism in the past, conservative women are not included.    
What is the essence of the me too movement? That women are tired of being abused by men in positions of power, and are no longer willing to be silent about their experience. You really think this is going to die because some politicians are attempting to politicize it (according to you)? What does “die”’mean to you? That women who are abused will go back to accepting it without comment? Sorry but that’s just foolish. 

This is a major societal change and you’re not recognizing it. 

 
It is apparently a new Trump and GOP talking point:

Meridith McGraw‏ @meridithmcgraw 41m41 minutes ago

"The Green New Deal...proposed by a wonderful young bartender," Trump said referring to AOC. "We'll take trains to Hawaii and Australia."
Unless the Republicans come up with their own plan to deal with climate change (extremely unlikely to say the least) Trump is going to have a problem with this argument. 

 
For crying out loud, Tim. She isn't glorifying being a bartender, she is responding to her critics suggesting it is a lesser job, or something that she should have to apologize for. This is not analogous to Joe the Plumber, who was trotted out there to show that, contrary to the stereotype, there actually are average working people in the GOP (that isn't a case one has to make with Democrats).

Here is the quote with a little more context.

AOC: "I'm proud to be a bartender. Ain't nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with working retail, folding clothes for other people to buy. There is nothing wrong with preparing the food that your neighbors will eat."

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1114218894439342081
Nice accent 

 
HellToupee said:
She pulled a Hillary': Critics mock AOC for 'affecting an accent' while speaking to a mostly black audience in NYC alongside Al Sharpton, while calling for 'reparations for Black Americans'

link
:lol: :lol: Republicans are making fun of the way AOC talks now? I'd hate to see the checklist you guys are using to demonize AOC in hopes of striking fear into all Republicans across the land. Some of you are truly showing how pathetic the views of the current GOP are. WOW! Sad. :lol: :lol:

 
:lol: :lol: Republicans are making fun of the way AOC talks now? I'd hate to see the checklist you guys are using to demonize AOC in hopes of striking fear into all Republicans across the land. Some of you are truly showing how pathetic the views of the current GOP are. WOW! Sad. :lol: :lol:
It's so Hillary....

 

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