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Jamal Khashoggi - Journalist Killed in Saudi Consulate (2 Viewers)

Henry Ford said:
I guess the "body double" was just a diva?  He wouldn't shave his hair to look like Khashoggi?  Because it's pretty glaringly stupid to have a guy with a full head of hair pretend to be a guy who's about half bald.
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Maybe the play was that Khashoggi was trying to disappear and was wearing a wig.  That’s the only thing I can come up with.  The hair is pretty obvious.

 
dkp993 said:
I really hope that was sarcasm @Underachievers
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I read it that way.  Tone is hard to get on a board like this - the horde is pretty quick to pile on.

Dedfin said:
Thats the type of post that should get you a one way ticket put of here. But this board is different.  
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You've just won the award for most ironic post this decade.  Amazing your card hasn't been yanked.

 
How the man behind Khashoggi murder ran the killing via Skype

According to one high-ranking Arab source with access to intelligence and links to members of Saudi Arabia’s royal court, Qahtani was beamed into a room of the Saudi consulate via Skype.

He began to hurl insults at Khashoggi over the phone. According to the Arab and Turkish sources, Khashoggi answered Qahtani’s insults with his own. But he was no match for the squad, which included top security and intelligence operatives, some with direct links to the royal court.

A Turkish intelligence source relayed that at one point Qahtani told his men to dispose of Khashoggi. “Bring me the head of the dog”, the Turkish intelligence source says Qahtani instructed.

It is not clear if Qahtani watched the entire proceedings, which the high-ranking Arab source described as a “bungled and botched operation”.

The Arab source and the Turkish intelligence source said the audio of the Skype call is now in the possession of Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan. The sources say he is refusing to release it to the Americans.
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When are people going to learn that if you transmit in bits, it will be possible to collect those bits and make your private conversions, images, instructions, and snuff films public, or at least known to intelligence sources.

It does make me wonder how the U.S. Armed Forces communicates securely though...

 
whoknew said:
I disagree. His base will do whatever Trump says.
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I'm gonna take issue with this line of thinking yet again - nothing personal. People say things like this as if they believe that people will actually do what Trump  says because he says it. That just isn't the case. People support Trump because he says what's already on their minds. He doesn't lead anyone who weren't already there to begin with. Trump is nothing more than the figurehead of a very real group of millions of Americans who already sees and saw things the way Trump does. You're giving him far too much credit. 

 
The Z Machine said:
When are people going to learn that if you transmit in bits, it will be possible to collect those bits and make your private conversions, images, instructions, and snuff films public, or at least known to intelligence sources.

It does make me wonder how the U.S. Armed Forces communicates securely though...
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If you transmit in any way it will be possible to capture the information. How long it takes to crack encryption mostly depends on how many resources you use to do it.

 
T J said:
I'm gonna take issue with this line of thinking yet again - nothing personal. People say things like this as if they believe that people will actually do what Trump  says because he says it. That just isn't the case. People support Trump because he says what's already on their minds. He doesn't lead anyone who weren't already there to begin with. Trump is nothing more than the figurehead of a very real group of millions of Americans who already sees and saw things the way Trump does. You're giving him far too much credit. 
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So is it fair for those of us who regard Trump as an evil person to conclude he's just a reflection of his base, not leading them?

 
Buckle up....

Sky News Breaking‏Verified account @SkyNewsBreak

Sky Sources: body parts of journalist Jamal Khashoggi who was killed in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul have been found

5:00 AM - 23 Oct 2018

 
Bucky86 said:
Oops.

Was that bad? Should they not have dumped them there?
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Well, considering that the Saudis had been spinning a tale of passing the body to a local guy to dispose of the body - I'd say, finding the body is not good for that latest version of what happened.

 
Encyclopedia Brown said:
Gina Haspel, the CIA director, is currently on a flight to Turkey. She gave no warning or reason for her departure. 
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She's the torturing kind...

She is going over to conduct a clinic for the Saudis.

 
Seriously though - it was a dumb idea to send Pompeo to the area.  It is somewhat bizarre to send Haspel.  What exactly is she supposed to do - run some sort of Op?

The more people we send at that level, the more I begin to wonder about our own complicity...  :tinfoilhat:

 
Sinn Fein said:
Seriously though - it was a dumb idea to send Pompeo to the area.  It is somewhat bizarre to send Haspel.  What exactly is she supposed to do - run some sort of Op?

The more people we send at that level, the more I begin to wonder about our own complicity...  :tinfoilhat:
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Quick...cover up our involvement before they find where we hepled the Saudis be that stupid.

 
Insomniac said:
So is it fair for those of us who regard Trump as an evil person to conclude he's just a reflection of his base, not leading them?
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I’m going to preface this but saying I don’t speak for anyone but myself, but my opinion is that yes, if you think people that think the way Trump thinks on some key issues, such as immigration are evil, then got for it.

For clarity though, there is a bunch of stuff Trump has done and still does that makes him agreeably a horrible person. 

Twitter rants,  belittling people, lying, his smugness, I could go on. Dude just is not presidential in almost any way.

I think where his base elected him and supports him are on, like I said,  immigration,  but also political correctness.  A lot of people, myself included, feel that has swung waaaay too far left and the pendulum needs to come back some the other way. Not all the way, but definitely some. He’s in your face with it and a lot of people like that. Are they evil? 

 
T J said:
I’m going to preface this but saying I don’t speak for anyone but myself, but my opinion is that yes, if you think people that think the way Trump thinks on some key issues, such as immigration are evil, then got for it.

For clarity though, there is a bunch of stuff Trump has done and still does that makes him agreeably a horrible person. 

Twitter rants,  belittling people, lying, his smugness, I could go on. Dude just is not presidential in almost any way.

I think where his base elected him and supports him are on, like I said,  immigration,  but also political correctness.  A lot of people, myself included, feel that has swung waaaay too far left and the pendulum needs to come back some the other way. Not all the way, but definitely some. He’s in your face with it and a lot of people like that. Are they evil?  
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I'm gonna try to tread lightly here because I don't want to get banned, but IMO yes, they are.  Here's why: so long as there's not an actual law restricting certain kinds of speech, "political correctness" does not negatively impact anyone's life in any way.  The same cannot be said for rudeness or bigotry or "getting in your face with it," which obviously hurts people.

Maybe you mean something other than being rude or stereotyping minorities or whatever it is you think is the opposite of "political correctness," and if so I would love to hear you elaborate. I'd also love to hear an explanation of how political correctness hurts people to the point where you support having a man you describe as a "horrible person" as president because he fights back against it.  Otherwise yeah, getting joy from someone being rude or bigoted towards other human beings in the absence of some tangible benefit from that behavior is 100% evil.

 
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Meanwhile ...

“In terms of what we ultimately do, I’m going to leave it very much -- in conjunction with me -- I’m going to leave it up to Congress," Trump says of Khashoggi killing. He added that "it was a bad original concept... and they had the worst cover up ever."
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That's some major league weaseling. The guy who abhors political correctness describing torture, murder and dismemberment described as a "bad original concept."

Also Congress already told him what to do.  It's called the "Global Magnitsky Act."  It authorizes the president to sanction foreign officials who commit human rights violations. Then some Senators wrote a letter triggering an executive branch response to this particular human rights violation.  Time for the President to actually do his job for once instead of passing the buck.

 
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TobiasFunke said:
I'm gonna try to tread lightly here because I don't want to get banned, but IMO yes, they are.  Here's why: so long as there's not an actual law restricting certain kinds of speech, "political correctness" does not negatively impact anyone's life in any way.  The same cannot be said for rudeness or bigotry or "getting in your face with it," which obviously hurts people.

Maybe you mean something other than being rude or stereotyping minorities or whatever it is you think is the opposite of "political correctness," and if so I would love to hear you elaborate. I'd also love to hear an explanation of how political correctness hurts people to the point where you support having a man you describe as a "horrible person" as president because he fights back against it.  Otherwise yeah, getting joy from someone being rude or bigoted towards other human beings in the absence of some tangible benefit from that behavior is 100% evil.
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I have zero issue with equal rights for all. You’re transgender? Great. Muslim? Swell. Whatever.

There are a lot of people out there who don’t like it being force fed. Bruce Jenner has a show and wins an espy? No thanks. Do your thing Bruce, power to you but the airtime it got was nauseating.

 
T J said:
I have zero issue with equal rights for all. You’re transgender? Great. Muslim? Swell. Whatever.

There are a lot of people out there who don’t like it being force fed. Bruce Jenner has a show and wins an espy? No thanks. Do your thing Bruce, power to you but the airtime it got was nauseating.
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What does this have to do with the President?  Do you want the government telling ESPN who it can and cannot honor?

 
Lol people care about bs tv shows and espy awards? What messageboard is this? www.knittinggirls.com?

 
T J said:
I have zero issue with equal rights for all. You’re transgender? Great. Muslim? Swell. Whatever.

There are a lot of people out there who don’t like it being force fed. Bruce Jenner has a show and wins an espy? No thanks. Do your thing Bruce, power to you but the airtime it got was nauseating.
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Not sure you understand what this means.

 
TobiasFunke said:
I'm gonna try to tread lightly here because I don't want to get banned, but IMO yes, they are.  Here's why: so long as there's not an actual law restricting certain kinds of speech, "political correctness" does not negatively impact anyone's life in any way.  The same cannot be said for rudeness or bigotry or "getting in your face with it," which obviously hurts people.

Maybe you mean something other than being rude or stereotyping minorities or whatever it is you think is the opposite of "political correctness," and if so I would love to hear you elaborate. I'd also love to hear an explanation of how political correctness hurts people to the point where you support having a man you describe as a "horrible person" as president because he fights back against it.  Otherwise yeah, getting joy from someone being rude or bigoted towards other human beings in the absence of some tangible benefit from that behavior is 100% evil.
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I'm not convinced evil is the right word.  how about.....................deplorable?

 
It has to do with the type of thing that caused Trump’s election. Millions upon millions of people are fed up with going to far with political correctness and Trump embodies that mindset. At least in my neck of the woods. 

Doesn’t make any difference though. You feel the way you feel. I feel the way I feel. All good in my book. You and I have quarreled quite a bit on these boards but you seem intelligent. I’m guessing if we met outside of this place and neither knew anything about the other, there’d be no issues whatsoever. 

 
sho nuff said:
PC stuff may be one of the strangest reasons to pick a leader.
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A lot of people, me included, voted for Obama the first time around because he was a good speaker. Different reasons to vote one way or another resonate at different times.

You may not agree with it but it doesn’t seem strange at all given the climate established by Trump’s predecessor, which I believe to have been one of divisiveness. 

Like I said to Tobias though. It doesn’t matter. Conversations are positive regardless how much I disagree with the other side and hopefully vice versa.

 
T J said:
I'm gonna take issue with this line of thinking yet again - nothing personal. People say things like this as if they believe that people will actually do what Trump  says because he says it. That just isn't the case. People support Trump because he says what's already on their minds. He doesn't lead anyone who weren't already there to begin with. Trump is nothing more than the figurehead of a very real group of millions of Americans who already sees and saw things the way Trump does. You're giving him far too much credit. 
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I dont think you’re giving him enough.  I would bet that there is a significant portion of the hardcore Trump base (25-35% of the voting electorate) that will do whatever he tells them to.  

Trump has completely subjugated the GOP.  It is his party.  No question.  And, in this era where facts don’t matter, the leader is followed.  Praise be.  

 
zoonation said:
I dont think you’re giving him enough.  I would bet that there is a significant portion of the hardcore Trump base (25-35% of the voting electorate) that will do whatever he tells them to.  

Trump has completely subjugated the GOP.  It is his party.  No question.  And, in this era where facts don’t matter, the leader is followed.  Praise be.  
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Maybe, but maybe not. I hope there is a more presidential option in the primaries who takes some of the same hard lines Trump does but in a way that is far less cartoonish and is more likeable and commands respect. 

 
Shula-holic said:
I'm not too clear these days.  My rudimentary assumption is a proxy war with Iran.
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Pretty much this.

Northern Yemen, including the capital, is held by rebels backed by Iran.  Southern Yemen is held by the government, backed by the Saudis.  The rebels are Shia and the government is Sunni, but I heard this AM that the Yemeni sub-sects of each haven't historically had a beef -- it's more political.

The Saudis have blockaded the ports which has had the effect of putting something like 8 million people on the verge of starvation.  And have conducted air raids in heavily populated areas without much consideration of civilians -- many of whom have been killed.

The original motives of the Houthi rebels seem pretty complex and I have no idea what the truth is/was.

 
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NYT with a brutal story on the war in Yemen today, with horrific pictures of the famine taking place over there.  

CHEST HEAVING AND EYES FLUTTERING, the 3-year-old boy lay silently on a hospital ward in the highland town of Hajjah, a bag of bones fighting for breath.

His father, Ali al-Hajaji, stood anxiously over him. Mr. Hajaji had already lost one son three weeks earlier to the epidemic of hunger sweeping across Yemen. Now he feared that a second was slipping away.

It wasn’t for a lack of food in the area: The stores outside the hospital gate were filled with goods and the markets were bustling. But Mr. Hajaji couldn’t afford any of it because prices were rising too fast.

“I can barely buy a piece of stale bread,” he said. “That’s why my children are dying before my eyes.”

The devastating war in Yemen has gotten more attention recently as outrage over the killing of a Saudi dissident in Istanbul has turned a spotlight on Saudi actions elsewhere. The harshest criticism of the Saudi-led war has focused on the airstrikes that have killed thousands of civilians at weddings, funerals and on school buses, aided by American-supplied bombs and intelligence.

But aid experts and United Nations officials say a more insidious form of warfare is also being waged in Yemen, an economic war that is exacting a far greater toll on civilians and now risks tipping the country into a famine of catastrophic proportions.

Under the leadership of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, the Saudi-led coalition and its Yemeni allies have imposed a raft of punitive economic measures aimed at undercutting the Houthi rebels who control northern Yemen. But these actions — including periodic blockades, stringent import restrictions and withholding the salaries of about a million civil servants — have landed on the backs of civilians, laying the economy to waste and driving millions deeper into poverty.

Those measures have inflicted a slow-burn toll: infrastructure destroyed, jobs lost, a weakening currency and soaring prices. But in recent weeks the economic collapse has gathered pace at alarming speed, causing top United Nations officials to revise their predictions of famine.

“There is now a clear and present danger of an imminent and great, big famine engulfing Yemen,” Mark Lowcock, the under secretary for humanitarian affairs, told the Security Council on Tuesday. Eight million Yemenis already depend on emergency food aid to survive, he said, a figure that could soon rise to 14 million, or half Yemen’s population.

“People think famine is just a lack of food,” said Alex de Waal, author of “Mass Starvation” which analyzes recent man-made famines. “But in Yemen it’s about a war on the economy.”...

Looking around her, Dr. Mahdi could not fathom the Western obsession with the Saudi killing of Jamal Khashoggi in Istanbul.

“We’re surprised the Khashoggi case is getting so much attention while millions of Yemeni children are suffering,” she said. “Nobody gives a damn about them.”

She tugged on the flaccid skin of a drowsy 7-year-old girl with stick-like arms. “Look,” she said. “No meat. Only bones.”..

One hope for Yemenis is that the international fallout from the death of the Saudi dissident, Jamal Khashoggi, which has damaged Prince Mohammed’s international standing, might force him to relent in his unyielding prosecution of the war.

Peter Salisbury, a Yemen specialist at Chatham House, said that was unlikely.

“I think the Saudis have learned what they can get away with in Yemen — that western tolerance for pretty bad behavior is quite high,” he said. “If the Khashoggi murder tells us anything, it’s just how reluctant people are to reign the Saudis in.”
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