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*Official 2019 Philadelphia Eagles Thread* - Season's over; Go Away Now... (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Insein
- Start date
babydemon90
Footballguy
The concern is what are we going to do next season, and going forward.
Not a fan of Groh at all. Maybe its unfair, but this offense has been mediocre with little development of players since he took over.
Not a fan of Groh at all. Maybe its unfair, but this offense has been mediocre with little development of players since he took over.
Insein
Footballguy
He needs to go at a minimum next year. Schwartz is making is second half save of his job like he always does.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
We still see Wentz making plays that are out of this world. He needs to regain some confidence and work on some things but the potential is there. I don't know how anyone can question the guy's potential. He's still very young. It would also help if he had a few more playmakers........
need2know
Footballguy
GoBirds
Footballguy
Totally agree, they are doing him no favors. Aging WR's are out, backups have not stepped up to the plate. Rarely establish a running game to provide any element of surprise. Coaching has been unable for months now to adapt to receivers out and scheme anything to make plays happen. Not long ago in years past you would see players running open downfield through good scheming....when is the last time we've seen anything like that?
GoBirds
Footballguy
Thrash/Stinkston level.....yet they keep running out the same players to run the same plays. Why not give Greg Ward a shot at this point?
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
GoBirds
Footballguy
With the SB win that leash is long and I’m good with that, but some coordinator positions as well as his draft team need some shake up.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
renesauz
IBL Representative
That ball was in the air for a long time. Agholar made it look MUCH harder then it should have been. Most WRs turn the other direction and cath it over their shoulder, or turn around completely and fall backwards.
The wind could have moved the ball, but the truth is he didnt track it well. This wasnt a 10 yard pass with no time to adjust...it was 30+ yards downfield. Agholar is NOT the reason Philly lost, but as a high draft pick he's missed an awful lot of chances to be the reason Philly won.
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Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
Howie is the person most deserving of our ire. The contracts for Jackson and Jeffrey and the money spent on aging vets is “Ruben Amaroesque.” Every time that dude with four names that he took in the second round is mentioned, I get short of breath. It angers me more than Sydney Jones now.
Can anyone see if Hollins has set some kind of record for running 200 plays and not catching a ball since September? It’s absurd. I mean statistically speaking, any one of us might have TWO catches in that time. Christ, a parking cone would be more useful out there.
Without elliot, I can’t anoint Dak the better player. Although, I remember my old man complaining bitterly that we should have taken Elliot, spent less draft capital and then gotten Dak just like Dallas did (all while that draft was unfolding I might ad). So maybe it’s more an issue of Jones’ kid or whomever is the GM>Howie.
I don’t know...
And with Howie’s craptastic track record of late, I’m disgusted he didn’t make any moves of note. What’s the point of having draft picks when he blows them like I blow into a Kleenex?
Can anyone see if Hollins has set some kind of record for running 200 plays and not catching a ball since September? It’s absurd. I mean statistically speaking, any one of us might have TWO catches in that time. Christ, a parking cone would be more useful out there.
Without elliot, I can’t anoint Dak the better player. Although, I remember my old man complaining bitterly that we should have taken Elliot, spent less draft capital and then gotten Dak just like Dallas did (all while that draft was unfolding I might ad). So maybe it’s more an issue of Jones’ kid or whomever is the GM>Howie.
I don’t know...
And with Howie’s craptastic track record of late, I’m disgusted he didn’t make any moves of note. What’s the point of having draft picks when he blows them like I blow into a Kleenex?
JetMaxx
Footballguy
DJax decision continues to haunt this team.
I can see better track jobs and catches at a high school game than what $9 million Agholor did on that pass. Yet he still got both hands on it, and OF COURSE dropped it
The days of getting torqued about the Eagles are mostly past for me but Agholor moved the needle with that one
I can see better track jobs and catches at a high school game than what $9 million Agholor did on that pass. Yet he still got both hands on it, and OF COURSE dropped it
The days of getting torqued about the Eagles are mostly past for me but Agholor moved the needle with that one
need2know
Footballguy
our wrs stink but you have to blame carson too. some of those throws yesterday were pretty bad.
only 11 carries for sanders. would have been nice to try to establish more run
defense played about as well they could. we once again see the problem of not being able to play well at the same time on offense and defense.
only 11 carries for sanders. would have been nice to try to establish more run
defense played about as well they could. we once again see the problem of not being able to play well at the same time on offense and defense.
babydemon90
Footballguy
unckeyherb
Footballguy
There were 5-6 times Wentz missed on chain moving passes that he normally would make. Threw a couple of darts that got batted down, which had he lofted the pass and led the wr a little more they’d have gone for big gains.
But then, with the pocket collapsing and time running out makes about as good a throw as I think anyone could make, putting it up for his $10 million WR to make a play and the guy barely can track it, still manages to get both hands on it and then drops it.
What a frustrating year.
But then, with the pocket collapsing and time running out makes about as good a throw as I think anyone could make, putting it up for his $10 million WR to make a play and the guy barely can track it, still manages to get both hands on it and then drops it.
What a frustrating year.
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babydemon90
Footballguy
I think the frustrating part is that it seems to be so many things..
Offensive play calling is - offensive. Literally for 2 weeks we said the one chance the Eagles had was them identifying their role as a good run team, which is the Pats weakness - then we barely run the ball. I mean yea, we were averaging around 3.5 ypc, but that's usually how it goes to start, then bigger runs break open as the day goes on.
WR's are horrible. JJ was supposed to be AJ's backup, that's all we heard, but then he's barely in the game, instead Jordan Mathews gets all the snaps (and predictably does almost zero with them). (at least JJ had one good catch)
Carson missing throws and little pocket awareness.
Of course, the above 3 probably all feed each other. Are the WR's never open because the scheme is predictable? Is Wentz holding the ball too long because the WR's aren't getting open?
On the plus side, the defense is healthy and playing like it.
Offensive play calling is - offensive. Literally for 2 weeks we said the one chance the Eagles had was them identifying their role as a good run team, which is the Pats weakness - then we barely run the ball. I mean yea, we were averaging around 3.5 ypc, but that's usually how it goes to start, then bigger runs break open as the day goes on.
WR's are horrible. JJ was supposed to be AJ's backup, that's all we heard, but then he's barely in the game, instead Jordan Mathews gets all the snaps (and predictably does almost zero with them). (at least JJ had one good catch)
Carson missing throws and little pocket awareness.
Of course, the above 3 probably all feed each other. Are the WR's never open because the scheme is predictable? Is Wentz holding the ball too long because the WR's aren't getting open?
On the plus side, the defense is healthy and playing like it.
Insein
Footballguy
The Noid
Avoid me!
This. The story of the season for him. His skills in the NFL have proven to mostly be limited to a decent slot receiver (when he's not going through extended bouts of the drops) and an occasional jet sweep/speed threat. Asking him to run deep routes, and track long throws, is just beyond his ability.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
Very winnable game yesterday. If our D played like it has in the past, we could have lost that game 30-10. Frustrating how close we came though.
Still had a lot of fun though. Tailgated way too hard and only made it down to the field for the last 30 minutes of warmups but got to go inside the tunnel as the team all ran out.... shook Howie's hand as he walked by too.
After the game everyone was pretty bummed but not nearly as bad as last year's Carolina game. We got into the touchdown club and got a couple pictures with BG and mainly were chatting with the defensive guys who were in there. Didn't see any offensive guys show up in there (much like during the game). Got to head out for food and drinks with some of the D guys too and the restaurant wiped the bill to zero which was awesome.
Defense was frustrated with the lack of offense because they knew they did their part and just needed a bit of help from the other side of the ball which they didn't get. But they knew they played well enough to win.
Still had a lot of fun though. Tailgated way too hard and only made it down to the field for the last 30 minutes of warmups but got to go inside the tunnel as the team all ran out.... shook Howie's hand as he walked by too.
After the game everyone was pretty bummed but not nearly as bad as last year's Carolina game. We got into the touchdown club and got a couple pictures with BG and mainly were chatting with the defensive guys who were in there. Didn't see any offensive guys show up in there (much like during the game). Got to head out for food and drinks with some of the D guys too and the restaurant wiped the bill to zero which was awesome.
Defense was frustrated with the lack of offense because they knew they did their part and just needed a bit of help from the other side of the ball which they didn't get. But they knew they played well enough to win.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Everything is out of synch right now.
Things that the organization couldn't much control: injuries, dropped balls
Things that the organization could have controlled: better coaching staff, better game planning, better in-game management
Things that are up in the air: scouting ability of those currently in the building, is carson really THE guy?
Things that they still do well: for all the errors that the defense makes, i still think that schwartz schemes about as well as he can with what he has available. doug's risk reward on decision making. cap management.
In 2017, all of these things (plus a few more) fell right into place and seemed to feed off of each other. Right now, most of these things are going wrong individually and seem like they have a domino effect on everything else.
No idea if they will correct it this year, but everything will be ok.
Things that the organization couldn't much control: injuries, dropped balls
Things that the organization could have controlled: better coaching staff, better game planning, better in-game management
Things that are up in the air: scouting ability of those currently in the building, is carson really THE guy?
Things that they still do well: for all the errors that the defense makes, i still think that schwartz schemes about as well as he can with what he has available. doug's risk reward on decision making. cap management.
In 2017, all of these things (plus a few more) fell right into place and seemed to feed off of each other. Right now, most of these things are going wrong individually and seem like they have a domino effect on everything else.
No idea if they will correct it this year, but everything will be ok.
Wentz is playing every bit as well as his "MVP" year in my eyes, its hard for any QB when no WR's get open, you have little running game, and the o-line is dropping like flies, against the best defense(maybe team) in the NFL. I have zero questions about Wentz.
I'd like to see Arcega-Whiteside playing more, its very possible he's not ready, and inconsistent, but at least there is upside there. What does Jordan Matthews bring? Or Hollins? Agholor is capable of being an ok slot WR, but only if he's the #4 option in the passing game, anything more and he wilts under pressure. Obviously a healthy D-Jax would help, and so would Jeffery to a lesser extent(though he seemed to be slowing down even when healthy) but at least JJAW could provide some upside, or at the very least get more experience.
As much as it may pain Eagles fans, the correct answer is to stay patient, and stay the course. They are only 1 game behind Dallas, who barely edged out a below average team, with a backup QB. They didn't go head to head with a Super Bowl favorite.
dhockster
Footballguy
Not overly simplistic, but the mistake was not drafting a young speedster to compliment Jackson (or to fill in for Jackson if/when he got hurt). Just look at the Eagle's offense with a deep threat the last couple of years (Torrey Smith and Jackson for 1 game this year) and without one (Wallace and Jackson injured). Make's a huge difference in the other receivers being able to get open.
Wentz may have missed on a few throws yesterday but his receivers had no separation. Even on completions, the receivers and tight ends were tightly covered.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Disagree and I'm not happy about it. I agree that his WR's are not getting open because they are simply not good enough to compete. That being said, there were at least 5 times that the WR did get open and Wentz simply overthrew, underthrew or zinged a bullet into a lineman when a lighter, lofted pass over the line would have made more sense. Numerous batted balls on those passes attest to that. He has zero pocket awareness-at least 3 sacks last night were his fault. Dude is pressing too much, trying to make something out of nothing (because he knows his "playmakers" aren't going to do it), refusing to throw it away and instead takes the sack. I could go on, but I think that's enough of a case that he is definitely not playing as well.
The upside, IMO is that the run game looked pretty good (IMO) even though Doug abandoned it. The Oline gave him a lot of time (until Lane and Peters were out). Our defense, both line play and secondary played maybe their best game of the year.
I'm still optimistic that this team is getting healthier and the important weeks are ahead of us. We always had to split NE and Seattle to realistically challenge for the division. We are still in that position. Wilson scares me, but their defense ain't what it used to be. Before this NE game I said I did not think we could beat Seattle, but honestly, if the defense played like it did last night I think we have a real shot.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Can someone explain to me why Miles Sanders (who can easily be argued as the best and most explosive pass catching rookie RB) had 2 catches for 9 yards yesterday on 4 targets?
I'm not going to rip Wentz for something that multiple people should be accountable for, but WTF?
I read through looking for an answer, didn't find one... Saw the Dak comparison, and Dak is far outplaying Wentz this season - I have no stake in any of it, but that's my opinion. To be fair, Dak is surrounded by more talent though.
I'm not going to rip Wentz for something that multiple people should be accountable for, but WTF?
I read through looking for an answer, didn't find one... Saw the Dak comparison, and Dak is far outplaying Wentz this season - I have no stake in any of it, but that's my opinion. To be fair, Dak is surrounded by more talent though.
babydemon90
Footballguy
Baldy broke down a bunch of our O-line play in the game - bottom line, piss poor effort and play form what should have been our strength.
I agree Wentz is pressing, but I can't blame him for it. Just like Mayfield was taking too much blame for the Browns situation, Wentz is just one guy. I don't think the Eagles would be better with a different QB, unless it was somebody like Wilson who routinely makes something from nothing.
Speaking of Wilson, I'd be very shocked if the Eagles defense played anywhere near this well next week. A little secret that has been lost a bit this year, is New England isn't very good on offense. The defense has scored a huge % of their points, and they haven't really faced anybody other than Baltimore. I think defensively anyway, Seattle is a FAR more difficult threat than New England. That said, obviously they don't have New England's defense. That feels like a 34-27 type game to me.
Its possible with no deep threat, or power running game to worry about, New England prioritized Sanders out of the backfield. I don't have a route/matchup count in front of me, but I remember a few plays where McCourty was covering Sanders, and that isn't a great matchup for Philly. Most teams don't have the DB depth to do that, or frankly the coaching gusto to use a top DB on a RB. How many times have you seen LB's still covering McCaffrey/Kamara?
I don't think Dak is outplaying Wentz this season. I'm a Bears fan, so no stake here either. Dak has had some rough games, and that is with a much better supporting cast, and almost no injuries, other than Gallup missing a couple games. Dallas has also played the easiest part of their schedule, while the Eagles is yet to come. The Eagles best 2 pass catchers play TE, and even then Goedert missed some time.
I'd rather have Wentz than Dak if I were an running an NFL franchise. I think people get a little too sucked into fantasy stats and recency bias. I'm sure there are a large amount of people who would have taken Goff over both of them at this time a year ago.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Think it had something to do with Lane leaving the game. The whole game plan changed after that; they stopped running almost completely and had Wentz start slinging. Think at that point BB also moved attention over to Sanders instead of Ertz, which is why Ertz actually saw some action later in the game.fantasycurse42 said:
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Fair enough, I can't blame him for wanting to try and make something out of nothing. However, I absolutely will blame him for simply missing throws that he used to make with precision. There were a couple of sideline passes that he wasn't close to his WR's, a few screens that he threw in the ground and a couple more that he threw a frozen rope (that got batted) when a little loopy touch-pass in stride goes for a big gain.travdogg said:
Regarding the Seattle game I agree, I said before this NE game that I didn't think we have a chance at stopping Wilson and our best shot at splitting these two games was to beat NE, which we clearly could/should have.
The Noid
Avoid me!
I think the prevailing thinking that we just have to beat Dallas to win the division is way too optimistic. I can see us dropping the Seattle game and Dallas pulling out a miracle win in NE. Or, Dallas losing to NE and winning their next 3. Their "tough" remaining schedule isn't as bad as people assumed just a few weeks ago. This Pats/Bills/Bears/Rams stretch for them could very well wind up 3-1.
Not to mention this Eagles team is perfectly capable of throwing in a clunker against one of MIA/NYG/WSH. It's becoming a very legit possibility our season is all but over before the DAL game because we're going into it 7-7 (2-2 division) while Dallas is 9-5 (4-0 in division), which means we need to both beat Dallas AND have them lose the following week to WSH (in Dallas.)
In the end, this is going to be a season of too many games that were there for the taking (ATL, DET, NE) that we just weren't good enough to take.
Not to mention this Eagles team is perfectly capable of throwing in a clunker against one of MIA/NYG/WSH. It's becoming a very legit possibility our season is all but over before the DAL game because we're going into it 7-7 (2-2 division) while Dallas is 9-5 (4-0 in division), which means we need to both beat Dallas AND have them lose the following week to WSH (in Dallas.)
In the end, this is going to be a season of too many games that were there for the taking (ATL, DET, NE) that we just weren't good enough to take.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Receptions this season:
Michael Thomas - 94
Philadelphia Eagles - 93
Michael Thomas - 94
Philadelphia Eagles - 93
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Some other random thoughts:
Doug called a #### game. One of his worst as HC. Very strange given what he had at WR
After seeing the D pretty healthy I’m glad we didn’t trade for a DB
Speaking of those DB’s— catch the damn ball!!!! So many chances at picks and they dropped them
I still feel like Wentz is a good QB who can be elite if we gets more consistent and gets an actual #1 WR to grow with.
Aghalor faking an injury after the drop just shows you where he is mentally. He’s done.
The WR’s we rolled out yesterday have to be the worst in the NFL by a lot right?
Doug called a #### game. One of his worst as HC. Very strange given what he had at WR
After seeing the D pretty healthy I’m glad we didn’t trade for a DB
Speaking of those DB’s— catch the damn ball!!!! So many chances at picks and they dropped them
I still feel like Wentz is a good QB who can be elite if we gets more consistent and gets an actual #1 WR to grow with.
Aghalor faking an injury after the drop just shows you where he is mentally. He’s done.
The WR’s we rolled out yesterday have to be the worst in the NFL by a lot right?
need2know
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
I'm starting to feel the old anger returning. Super Bowl quelled it for a bit but my irrational anger for the stupidity if this team is slowly building to 2012 and 2015 levels.
What have we been saying all week? The games we've looked best, we run the ball, control the clock, make the other team have to be perfect to beat us. We come out in this game with a 97 yard dominating drive in the first quarter. Then we don't run a single play even close to what was run on that drive for the rest of the game. We barely give Miles Sanders the ball. We insist on throwing against the best secondary in the NFL this year far and away with the worst WR corps assembled in the last decade or so.
I love Doug for 2017 but this is looking like McCarthy 2.0 real fast here.
I still think we'll be ok. Even if we lose to Seattle, Dallas and Philly should be 8-6 going into that game. Then it's on them. Of course if they want to eliminate that zero margin for error, maybe go out and beat Seattle in your house. I swear to God though if we drive down the field and totally dominate their Defensive line in the first quarter only to abandon the run the rest of the game I'm going to go back to breaking #### on Sundays.
What have we been saying all week? The games we've looked best, we run the ball, control the clock, make the other team have to be perfect to beat us. We come out in this game with a 97 yard dominating drive in the first quarter. Then we don't run a single play even close to what was run on that drive for the rest of the game. We barely give Miles Sanders the ball. We insist on throwing against the best secondary in the NFL this year far and away with the worst WR corps assembled in the last decade or so.
I love Doug for 2017 but this is looking like McCarthy 2.0 real fast here.
I still think we'll be ok. Even if we lose to Seattle, Dallas and Philly should be 8-6 going into that game. Then it's on them. Of course if they want to eliminate that zero margin for error, maybe go out and beat Seattle in your house. I swear to God though if we drive down the field and totally dominate their Defensive line in the first quarter only to abandon the run the rest of the game I'm going to go back to breaking #### on Sundays.
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
I watched Q4 of the super bowl over the weekend and was reminded that Agholor made several good catches.
Wonder if it is normal regression, change in coaching, change in QB...?
Wonder if it is normal regression, change in coaching, change in QB...?
cloppbeast
Footballguy
The O averaged more yards per run than yards per pass, so..... Doug may have done things different had Howard played, but I still call it inexcusable to get into predictable pass happiness against the Pats defense. This defense made every qb they played look very bad, so I wont hold too much against Wentz. No less with both tackles out of the game and Agholor as his best receiver.babydemon90 said:
The obviousness to run the ball in this game, Adam Gase may have even picked up on it.
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The Noid
Avoid me!
2017 is just an outlier at this point. His other 4 years are likely who he is.
need2know
Footballguy
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Funny, after that #### show in Sunday I had the play by play highlights video of the super bowl running on my desktop at work yesterday. Then I watched the history of the Philly Special. Then I watched the crowd reaction to the Philly Special at Xfinity Live. What a magical run that year was.
One takeaway from that season that makes me optimistic about this year. We were not running enough in the beginning of the season, clearly. The players spoke up and Doug listened. He started running more and we started trucking teams. After Carson went down, Foles came in and really didn't play great. Everyone was assuming our season was over, even though we'd clinched a bye at that point. Doug and company recognized his strengths in the RPO and re-adjusted the play calling to suit him and the rest is history.
In my mind Doug has earned the benefit of the doubt. He revamped his play calling drastically, twice, in that season. There is definitely time to turn this thing around. Like I said earlier, no one expected us to beat both NE and Seattle; we always had to split these two games. So we still need to.
I trust in Doug to right the ship.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
i'm on board with this, but in thinking about the fact that they came out of the bye and didn't seem to do much to change, i'm not sure what to think. Maybe they just don't have a confidence in the personnel between the injuries and performance to run what they really want to run.
babydemon90
Footballguy
oof Nelson
https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2019/11/19/20972456/nelson-agholor-worst-wide-receiver-nfl-week-11-eagles-pro-football-focus-pff-bench-cut-stats-grades?fbclid=IwAR1zMOPjeKXX4QqOCmAOM0jiLLqMteV50fBuBMmj97nS3RJEftd3SN92_HY
I mean at this point - Greg Ward, more JJ, anyone. There is no reason for Agholor to be taking snaps.
https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2019/11/19/20972456/nelson-agholor-worst-wide-receiver-nfl-week-11-eagles-pro-football-focus-pff-bench-cut-stats-grades?fbclid=IwAR1zMOPjeKXX4QqOCmAOM0jiLLqMteV50fBuBMmj97nS3RJEftd3SN92_HY
I mean at this point - Greg Ward, more JJ, anyone. There is no reason for Agholor to be taking snaps.
need2know
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
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