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TRUMP TO INFINITY AND BEYOND HQ - The Great and Positive Place (17 Viewers)
- Thread starter knowledge dropper
- Start date
TheMagus
Footballguy
Can you elaborate what you are talking about or provide some links?
What surge in "irregularities"?
What is the 3% in 100 ballots about in AZ?
What "shady stuff" in Fulton county?
Thunderlips
Footballguy
It really does seem like there's several judges appointed by Trump who are just outright blasting these cases out of court. I have to ask....have these guys been corrupted into the Deep State Conspiracy quickly....or does Trump just make bad choices in regards to picking Constitutionally sound judges?
Max Power
Footballguy
A nice article on some of the irregularities.
https://spectator.us/reasons-why-the-2020-presidential-election-is-deeply-puzzling/
Mark Gosar on the 3% found in AZ.
https://twitter.com/DrPaulGosar/status/1334308696013168640?s=20
Fulton county - I know it's the GWP, but the video is the video and I dont know who else is hosting it at the moment.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/unbelievable-mother-along-daughter-handled-counted-ballots-alone-hours-georgia-ruby-freeman-caught-running-batch-ballots-tabulator-three-times/
CR69
Footballguy
GordonGekko
Footballguy
"I witnessed military ballots being duplicated. It was strange that only Biden's name was selected"
445,534 views •Dec 1, 2020
Poll watcher in #Michigan: "I witnessed the military ballots being duplicated. I just thought it was strange that only Biden's name was selected, no down ballot...and not one was for Trump."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1br3kbgRzo
>>The state court let Trump's allies scrutinize some absentee voters' signatures, check duplicated ballots, etc. After all that, the court concluded, in bold, "The Evidence Does Not Show Fraud Or Misconduct."<<
https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/1335010288224137217
From wikipedia about Mark Gosar - should we trust this guy:
>>Seven of Gosar's siblings wrote an open letter to the Kingman (Arizona) Daily Miner newspaper denouncing Gosar's claims about Soros as "despicable slander...without a shred of truth", saying the congressman "owes George Soros a personal apology.<<
Max Power
Footballguy
>>The county already has conducted multiple audits and hand counts. None have shown any irregularities in ballot counting or problems with the county’s equipment.
Still, County Supervisor Steve Chucri said Friday that he is supportive of an audit, and Supervisor Bill Gates said he looks forward "to having a discussion with my colleagues regarding actions the board could take to further instill voter confidence in the election results."<<
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2020/12/04/arizona-republican-speaker-house-rejects-calls-overturn-election-rusty-bowers/3830827001/
How many audits are needed? I supported and gave money to the Jill Stein recount effort in Michigan. In the end, there was no evidence of intentional voter fraud, but instead some cases of mistakes.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/stein-ends-recount-bid-but-says-it-revealed-flaws-in-voting-system.html
https://knowledgecenter.csg.org/kc/content/michigan-2016-election-audit-no-evidence-voter-fraud
Mile High
Footballguy
It was breaking news yesterday.
Steve Vladeck
@steve_vladeck
·
Dec 3
Pennsylvania has already certified its electors, and the timing of Alito’s order means #SCOTUS wouldn’t even be able to act on this nonsense before the federal safe-harbor deadline—which is December 8. Pretty clever of Justice Alito—and also a clear sign that this has no chance.
Quote Tweet
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Thanks for the link Max. Definitely a handful of folks - not millions, a small group - who thought the 2016 election involved fraud.
Sadly, tens of millions believe it now in 2020, with an equal amount of evidence as in 2016.
TheMagus
Footballguy
OK I will star with the first link here.
First of all, I have no flipping idea who spectator.us is but based on this particular article, I wouldn't think that they are a particularly credible journalistic source. Let's look at this:
That is based on exit polls. And we know exit polls are pretty worthless in 2020 given that it is not a representative sample of the population. We know democrats were more likely to vote by mail than go to the polls. Trump outright told his supporters to not vote by mail. And with increased mail-in voting for 2020, exit polls are pretty much meaningless because they would clearly be slanted one way. Yet this article by this "new source" that I have never heard of jumps to the following evidence of "irregularities""
There was no avalanche here of black voters. They voted the same way they always do. This whole analysis is based on a false predicate of exit polling which was not a representative sample of the entire population. Let's look at previous results from the 2016 election in Philly:
Clinton: 584,025 82.3%
Trump: 108. 748 15.3%
Now lets look at the results for the 2020 election:
Biden: 603,790 81.4%
Trump: 132,740 17.9%
Does anything seem weird there? Trump actually got a higher share of votes than he did in 2016. And turnout was up across the board. Would you actually posit that Philly was actually red and some kind of massive voter fraud turned them blue? Or that you think there was a ground swell of Trump support in Philly that would have required hundreds of independent actors in the election process to fix the vote for Biden? Do you know anything about that city? Did you see the celebrations in the streets when Biden officially won? Would you like to come to Philly and do random samples of a thousand people who live here and ask them about their political leanings? To be honest the most shocking thing to me about this election is that Trump actually increased his vote share in Philly.
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Osaurus
Footballguy
JAA
Footballguy
I found these funny, sorry. To act like this is special to any POTUS is laughable.Saw this on Facebook
I tolerated 44 (Obama) for 8 years and only discussed the normal politically ideological differences.
Here is my issue with the whole, “let us all be a United States again” that we heard from Joe Biden.
For the last 4+ years, the Democrats have gone scorched earth. You have salted the fields and now you want to grow crops.
The problem is 72+ million of us have memories longer than a hamster.
We remember the women’s march (vagina hats and all) the day after inauguration.
We remember the 4 years of attacks and impeachments
We remember “not our president” and the “Resistance…”
We remember Maxie Walters telling followers to harass us in restaurants.
We remember the Presidents spokesperson being kicked out of a restaurant.
We remember hundreds of Trump supporters physically attacked.
We remember Trump supporters getting Doxed, and fired from jobs.
We remember riots, and looting
We remember “a comedian” holding up the President’s severed head
We remember a play in Central park paid with public funding, showing the killing of President Trump
We remember Robert de Niro yelling “F" Trump” at the Tony’s and getting a standing ovation.
We remember Nancy Pelosi tearing up the State of the Union Address.
We remember the total in the tank move on the mainstream media
We remember the non-stop and live fact checking on our President and his supporters.
We remember non-stop in your face lies and open cover-ups from the media.
We remember the President and his staff being spied on.
We remember five Republican legislators shot on a ballfield.
We remember every so-called comedy show turn into nothing but Trump hate fest.
We remember 95% negative coverage in the news.
We remember the state governors asking and getting everything they ask for and then blaming Trump for their problems.
We remember a Trump top aid verbally assaulted in two DC restaurants.
We remember people banging on the Supreme Court doors.
We remember that we were called every name in the book for supporting President Trump.
We remember that Hollywood said they would leave after Trump was elected but they stayed.
This list is endless, but you get the idea.
My friends will be my friends, but a party that has been on the attack for 4 long years does not get a free pass with me!
The others, well - that’s pretty sour grapes IMHO.
I will give one here, the Caesar play in NYC. I had to research that one. It’s completely true. I then thought how I would react if it was Obama that they had play Caesar. I think it would have bothered me and I’m not even a huge Obama fan.
1-46 about, seems like the standard batting average for Trump. I KID I KID!!
JAA
Footballguy
Question - when is enough is enough? I thought I asked you this question last week and you told me after Jenna Ellis? Cause she had a good reputation. Now that it has been proved she is a crackpot, when next is enough is enough?
Where is the finish line? Is the only finish line when Trump declared the victor? Is that the only possible outcome here?
JAA
Footballguy
I put him on ignore earlier in the week and my enjoyment factor increased 10 fold.
HellToupee
Footballguy
VerySaw this on Facebook
I tolerated 44 (Obama) for 8 years and only discussed the normal politically ideological differences.
Here is my issue with the whole, “let us all be a United States again” that we heard from Joe Biden.
For the last 4+ years, the Democrats have gone scorched earth. You have salted the fields and now you want to grow crops.
The problem is 72+ million of us have memories longer than a hamster.
We remember the women’s march (vagina hats and all) the day after inauguration.
We remember the 4 years of attacks and impeachments
We remember “not our president” and the “Resistance…”
We remember Maxie Walters telling followers to harass us in restaurants.
We remember the Presidents spokesperson being kicked out of a restaurant.
We remember hundreds of Trump supporters physically attacked.
We remember Trump supporters getting Doxed, and fired from jobs.
We remember riots, and looting
We remember “a comedian” holding up the President’s severed head
We remember a play in Central park paid with public funding, showing the killing of President Trump
We remember Robert de Niro yelling “F" Trump” at the Tony’s and getting a standing ovation.
We remember Nancy Pelosi tearing up the State of the Union Address.
We remember the total in the tank move on the mainstream media
We remember the non-stop and live fact checking on our President and his supporters.
We remember non-stop in your face lies and open cover-ups from the media.
We remember the President and his staff being spied on.
We remember five Republican legislators shot on a ballfield.
We remember every so-called comedy show turn into nothing but Trump hate fest.
We remember 95% negative coverage in the news.
We remember the state governors asking and getting everything they ask for and then blaming Trump for their problems.
We remember a Trump top aid verbally assaulted in two DC restaurants.
We remember people banging on the Supreme Court doors.
We remember that we were called every name in the book for supporting President Trump.
We remember that Hollywood said they would leave after Trump was elected but they stayed.
This list is endless, but you get the idea.
My friends will be my friends, but a party that has been on the attack for 4 long years does not get a free pass with me!
I hear you. I cringed and hated when a bunch of these things happened.Saw this on Facebook
I tolerated 44 (Obama) for 8 years and only discussed the normal politically ideological differences.
Here is my issue with the whole, “let us all be a United States again” that we heard from Joe Biden.
For the last 4+ years, the Democrats have gone scorched earth. You have salted the fields and now you want to grow crops.
The problem is 72+ million of us have memories longer than a hamster.
We remember the women’s march (vagina hats and all) the day after inauguration.
We remember the 4 years of attacks and impeachments
We remember “not our president” and the “Resistance…”
We remember Maxie Walters telling followers to harass us in restaurants.
We remember the Presidents spokesperson being kicked out of a restaurant.
We remember hundreds of Trump supporters physically attacked.
We remember Trump supporters getting Doxed, and fired from jobs.
We remember riots, and looting
We remember “a comedian” holding up the President’s severed head
We remember a play in Central park paid with public funding, showing the killing of President Trump
We remember Robert de Niro yelling “F" Trump” at the Tony’s and getting a standing ovation.
We remember Nancy Pelosi tearing up the State of the Union Address.
We remember the total in the tank move on the mainstream media
We remember the non-stop and live fact checking on our President and his supporters.
We remember non-stop in your face lies and open cover-ups from the media.
We remember the President and his staff being spied on.
We remember five Republican legislators shot on a ballfield.
We remember every so-called comedy show turn into nothing but Trump hate fest.
We remember 95% negative coverage in the news.
We remember the state governors asking and getting everything they ask for and then blaming Trump for their problems.
We remember a Trump top aid verbally assaulted in two DC restaurants.
We remember people banging on the Supreme Court doors.
We remember that we were called every name in the book for supporting President Trump.
We remember that Hollywood said they would leave after Trump was elected but they stayed.
This list is endless, but you get the idea.
My friends will be my friends, but a party that has been on the attack for 4 long years does not get a free pass with me!
Here's where I am.
A lot of my Trump voting friends are angry/hurt/upset by these things. With good reason.
A lot of my Biden voting friends could make a list of similar things where their side has been wronged. They're angry/hurt/upset by those things. With good reason.
It seems to me we have a have a couple of paths in front of us.
1. The most obvious. Just keep doing what we're doing. Continue to be offended and continue to retaliate and escalate the conflict. Your retaliation will add to the list of offensive things done to the other side which gives them more reason to retaliate back and further escalate the conflict or division.
2. Another path is a lot more difficult. That path is being the bigger person and showing grace and swallowing the ego a little and not retaliating. I get it, I thought DiNero's "F Trump" and the cheering after was gross. There was also gross stuff before that which caused him to say that and there was stuff before that which caused another to say something and on it goes. People will justify the bad behavior and give a list of offenses that they'll say caused them to act this way. Rinse and repeat.
I'm saying at some point, you break the back and forth cycle. You don't have to forget what DiNero said or how the people cheered. But you can let it go and not retaliate.
Of the two options, the second is far more difficult for people and thus far more unlikely to happen. People want to make sure the other side is "accountable" they'll talk about how they're not really withholding "cheap grace", they're simply being just. In my experience, that's often rooted in self and ego. Their focus is on making sure they get what they want.
But regardless, I would ask, for these paths, "What are the likely outcomes?"
If we continue in the downward spiral of the first path, and continue to retaliate and hit back and be tools to the other side because they were tools to us, I'm pretty certain we'll continue the conflict and division and rancor. I see no reason we'd get different results than we've been seeing. And don't kid yourselves, this isn't all about Trump. We've been on this path for a while.
If we try the second, and extend grace and empathy or even just stop the outward retaliation and condescension and general douchiness to each other, I think we might have a chance for real change and healing and unity.
And yeah, I'm a self admitted hopeless optimist at times. We'll see.
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Capella
Footballguy
Social media ensures we are never going back down the second path. Anger and hate and division sells and gets big clicks and people are addicted to it. The path of showing grace and extending a hand to the other side isn’t happening again. You gotta be realistic here and look for the best path on the only option.
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timschochet
Footballguy
So President Trump visits Georgia today to campaign for Senators Perdue and Loeffler. The question is: will he help them or hurt them?
I'm not saying you don't acknowledge truth. That's exactly what I addressed when I said,
I'm absolutely engaging reality. That's all I'm engaging with. I'm saying dial back the whatabouts.
I'm saying stop trying to justify offensive actions on one side because the other side did something prior. Because that simply winds up being the other side did that thing prior because my side did this other thing prior. And the justification for offensive stuff goes on and on. Self righteous justification is powerful.
And yes, I know what I'm saying is likely a pipe dream. I fear most people simply have too much ego and focus on getting what they want and retaliating when they were offended/slighted/hurt.
And to make sure I'm totally clear, I'm speaking to both sides here. I'm speaking just as much to the Trump voter who wrote the Facebook post above as I am to the Biden voter who has their list.
And one last thing - this isn't about who has the worst list.
That's not how grace works.
That's not how grace works.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Let us know when you're ready to take that first step. You are outta' your mind if you think this is confined to "the right" or Trump supporters.
Capella
Footballguy
To going back to where we were? There isn’t one. The only path is everybody stick to their little tribes and try to keep the overt threats of violence down. I don’t think we are heading to a civil war but I do worry that people are getting angrier and more violent and I worry what may be the fall out of that.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
This is a perfect example of the gaslighting you're accusing "the other side" of engaging in. After what has transpired in the last 4 years - from both sides - you seriously going to stand here and claim that "the other side" doesn't want to face the truth and/or facts?
You're not interested in grace - you're interested in revenge. And a misguided revenge at that.
Max Power
Footballguy
Spectator is rated as a highly factual, right leaning source. It doesnt sound like the data is being disputed, but the interpretation of the data that is.
And no, I can't speak to anything Philly. Tou wanted a list of irregularities and that's what I tried to provide. I did notice that article didnt address the belweather county issue, which is another one that makes some people pause.
Neo
The Dude minds
There is a .001% chance he doesn't go into his election fraud routine even though those in his party are pleading with him not to. Whether that hurts or helps....dunno.
Trump, Pence and the Trump kids campaigned in Georgia several times in October, but so did Biden and Harris. Stacey Abrams built a big grass roots movement. Having a black candidate for Senate will bring out the black vote. I think Trump hurts more than helps, but he has no choice.
Max Power
Footballguy
You guys love to ask this question it seems. And I think you confused Jenna Ellis with Sidney Powell. I still like Sidney Powell's claims of data manipulation. We have some forensic audits coming up and I'll be interested to hear the results.
I've answered the finish line multiple times here. I'll be happy when I feel like the questions of election integrity are answered. Watching the media, Democrats and courts stonewall these claims is frustrating.
If Biden gets sworn in Jan 21st, I'll accept it and move on. But if we never investigate our own elections and correct some of this issues, I'll always think this was a compromised election.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
The right is much better at live and let live. We don’t riot, we don’t march in pink hats, we don’t really complain much. We roll up our sleeves and move on.
This forum is a prime example of the differences. There was a thread thousands of pages long that lasted for four years that railed on Trump every single day. We create the same thread for Biden and it’s locked in two weeks. Why is the Biden thread the final straw? Because people complain? Because now is a good time to start being cool? Trump was fair game and now we need to be serious and reset things? Everyone got calling us Nazis, racists, misogynists, Proud Boys, etc. out of their systems?
I am an even keeled dude and can live by these rules, but hopefully you can see what this place was allowed to become over the past 4 years. A reset needs to include all even FBG mods.
Thank you.
Max Power
Footballguy
Is there still a Biden gaffe thread? I haven't seen it bumped, but he has had a couple whoppers lately.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
BigJim®
Footballguy
This is startling self reflection. The right rolls up its sleeves and throw its energy behind putting an entire democracy in doubt after 240 years of peaceful transitions. Based on facts and unsubstantiated allegations that have been ridiculed by 46 courts to date. It could not be further from not complaining much. It could not be further from moving on.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
I haven't seen a claim yet.....that hasn't been investigated. There is an entire thread that has compiled boatloads of links laying out all the analyses that have been done. So far.....zero fraud. Other than 2 Trump voters who tried to vote illegally. That's it. Claims have been raised....investigated....debunked. At some point, after hundreds of debunkings....maybe the gut instinct will be "oh, a new claim, this one is probably just another false claim."
Every day, the sun rises in the east. So when I wake up in the morning, I expect the sun to rise in the east. The continuing assumption that each new voter fraud claim.....will be proven true.....seems a lot like if I woke up every day and assumed that the sun would rise in the west....
Anyway, I would love to see a voting system in place that all/99% of Americans would accept as fraud-proof.
timschochet
Footballguy
I honestly don’t know. I’m a bit skeptical of the notion that conservatives are going to stay at home because they’re pissed about the Trump result- that sounds like liberal wishful thinking to me. On the other hand, if Trump spends most of his time talking about how it’s all fraudulent who knows?
Trump won’t say you need a Republican senate to stop Biden since that would be conceding. So what exactly does he say? Vote for these guys because I will be President and I need a Republican senate??
The whole thing is weird. What do you think?
He’s going to talk a lot about fraud and donations - cause that’s the con he’s running right now.
JAA
Footballguy
I don’t want to offend by saying this, but do you understand how disingenuous that statement sounds? Trump and the GOP have been to court almost 50 times and lost all but 1. No one has found any indication of systemic election or voter fraud. This includes every organization inside the United States government including multiple people appointed by Trump himself.
Look, it’s cool you want to believe what you want to believe. However, please don’t make statements like these.
timschochet
Footballguy
The buck stops with me on how this forum is moderated. You can call that a "reset" or whatever you want to but I've been pretty clear in what I'm saying for a good while. Lots of people think I'm unfair to the left. Lots of people think I'm unfair to the right.
We're going to try and operate in a way that is respectful but also discuss factual things we see and disagree with. We'll fall short I'm sure in places. But that's been our goal and it's going to be our goal.
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JAA
Footballguy
I’m not here to defend any side, but do you realize how disingenuous that statement sounds?
Some people march with military grade tactical weapons. Some people drive cars into crowds. Some people go looking for trouble in protests and end up killing people. Some people disenfranchise socioeconomic populations. Some people separate mother and child at the border
This is a mess and all people who do bad things should be brought to justice. All of them. This concept of the right and left is divisive. How about the law abiding and the not law abiding? Instead of dividing the population on political lines, how about division based on laws?
peace
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
Exactly
Just 26 congressional Republicans acknowledge Biden’s win, Washington Post survey finds
I'm with JB but there will never be peace if one side doesn't want it. I'm so happy that Biden is acting like every other POTUS in history, besides Trump, that keeps reminding us we're all Americans and we're all in this together. I hope and pray that the republicans change their tactics.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Fair enough. You are free to express your views. I actually enjoy reading any and all views, and hope you continue to post your thoughts.I'll make whatever statement I feel like. Stop reading this thread if you dont want to read it.
I’d be interested in your response to the first paragraph you had quoted too.
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BladeRunner
Footballguy
I find this statement to be hollow, shallow and extremely self-serving considering the last 4 years of attacks from the left. Now that "your guy" won, suddenly the left is acting as if that never happened at all.
You'll have to forgive conservatives if we just don't believe this.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
I can appreciate why you feel that way. It does seem inconsistent at best, hypocritical at worst.
Most people I know quickly accepted the result in 2016 and immediately shifted into the mode of “let’s hope that President Trump is a uniter who shakes up the status quo.”
I don’t know a single person who lobbied for the election to be overturned. Or who thought the election was full of rampant fraud. Or who talked about armed rebellion.
I do know a bunch of folks who were super upset. Worried for the future. Convinced that Russian propaganda on social media influenced voters. Convinced that Trump was a stooge of Putin.
I also know a lot of people who have said and done appalling things the past 4 years. I’ve probably fallen in that camp more than I’m comfortable with, but also far less than some in this forum might imagine. Candidly, my only worry the past 4 years has been the survival of democracy. I don’t care about the Supreme Court, or taxes, etc etc. I only care about preserving a well functioning and stable democracy that is the envy of the world.
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