jamny
Footballguy
Exactly. Our presence alone as advisers and air support was enough to keep the Kurds safe. No reason to pull out other than to appease Erdogan. A shameful act.
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Turkey invades Syria: Update- ISIS rebuilds (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
The General
Footballguy
By cutting bait and leaving this allowed Erdogan to bomb away. He wouldn’t have done this with our troops there.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
https://www.cnn.com/2014/08/18/world/kurdish-people-fast-facts/index.html
violence, war, bombings, killing .......... its what that region seems to do and all they want to do :(
violence, war, bombings, killing .......... its what that region seems to do and all they want to do :(
timschochet
Footballguy
The Republicans oppose this but so what? What are they going to do, pass a bill condemning Trump’s decision? The damage is already done.
dkp993
Footballguy
You really need to go back and re-read, then re-read again, then one more time re-read the responses since your last post. It can not be more clear and you conflating it with other questions that have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it doesn’t change the answers.
The General
Footballguy
Seems like a good time to address Military spending. Start cutting that ASAP.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Yep. Trump was supposed to pull the covers back on the military industrial complex during the "big reveal" which never happened.
timschochet
Footballguy
I was going to advise you not to waste time with him (which is very good advice BTW) but SC’s views are emblematic of the isolationist branch of the Republican Party that Trump has come to represent.
They’re lazy. They’re ignorant of history. They believe that America has no responsibilities whatsoever to the rest of the world, and they refuse to consider any long term consequences.
President Trump mentioned Normandy yesterday, one of our greatest military achievements in history. The greatest lesson of Normandy is this: it was unnecessary. All that sacrifice, all those lives lost and treasure spent- none of it needed to happen. It happened because during the 1920s and 1930s we allowed isolationists to take over the foreign policy of this country. They were exactly the same as Trump and his followers are now: lazy and ignorant of history. They even used the same phrase: America First. They controlled this nation’s actions until the whole world became dominated by murderous dictators who threatened our existence, forcing us to fight a bloody war which we were, frankly, lucky to win.
Now, 75 years later, these same fools have returned with the same message that we can ignore the rest of the world, ignore our former allies, and go our own way. And it’s just as idiotic as it was the first time. Even worse in this age of terrorism and potential nuclear horror. When innocent Americans die we will know whom to blame. Not that it will help us.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
timschochet
Footballguy
If anyone wants to read some good books about the years between World War I and World War II, and how foreign policy extremely similar to President Trump’s led to disaster, I recommend:
The Collapse of the Third Republic by William L. Shirer
Modern Times by Paul Johnson
The Last Lion: Winston Spencer Churchill, Alone 1932-1940 by William Manchester
The Collapse of the Third Republic by William L. Shirer
Modern Times by Paul Johnson
The Last Lion: Winston Spencer Churchill, Alone 1932-1940 by William Manchester
People need to retweet all of these to Trump, maybe he'll finally grow a conscience. Then again, maybe I'll finally grow that money tree.
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Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
HellToupee
Footballguy
Donald’s Facebook message 
Turkey has been planning to attack the Kurds for a long time. They have been fighting forever. We have no soldiers or Military anywhere near the attack area. I am trying to end the ENDLESS WARS. Talking to both sides. Some want us to send tens of thousands of soldiers to the area and start a new war all over again. Turkey is a member of NATO. Others say STAY OUT, let the Kurds fight their own battles (even with our financial help). I say hit Turkey very hard financially & with sanctions if they don’t play by the rules! I am watching closely.
Turkey has been planning to attack the Kurds for a long time. They have been fighting forever. We have no soldiers or Military anywhere near the attack area. I am trying to end the ENDLESS WARS. Talking to both sides. Some want us to send tens of thousands of soldiers to the area and start a new war all over again. Turkey is a member of NATO. Others say STAY OUT, let the Kurds fight their own battles (even with our financial help). I say hit Turkey very hard financially & with sanctions if they don’t play by the rules! I am watching closely.
timschochet
Footballguy
For this discussion- Trump’s foreign policy- the years before World War II Are even more important.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Thumbs up to that weak ### retort by him?Donald’s Facebook message
Turkey has been planning to attack the Kurds for a long time. They have been fighting forever. We have no soldiers or Military anywhere near the attack area. I am trying to end the ENDLESS WARS. Talking to both sides. Some want us to send tens of thousands of soldiers to the area and start a new war all over again. Turkey is a member of NATO. Others say STAY OUT, let the Kurds fight their own battles (even with our financial help). I say hit Turkey very hard financially & with sanctions if they don’t play by the rules! I am watching closely.
timschochet
Footballguy
Let me stop at the first sentence. Yes it’s true they’ve been planning to attack the Kurds for a long time. Yet they haven’t until now. Why? Because with a few hundred soldiers we prevented it, that’s why.Donald’s Facebook message
Turkey has been planning to attack the Kurds for a long time. They have been fighting forever. We have no soldiers or Military anywhere near the attack area. I am trying to end the ENDLESS WARS. Talking to both sides. Some want us to send tens of thousands of soldiers to the area and start a new war all over again. Turkey is a member of NATO. Others say STAY OUT, let the Kurds fight their own battles (even with our financial help). I say hit Turkey very hard financially & with sanctions if they don’t play by the rules! I am watching closely.
This guy is despicable. Full stop.
jamny
Footballguy
I'm sure those people that are dying as I type this will appreciate sanctions against Turkey after being loyal allies to the US.Donald’s Facebook message
Turkey has been planning to attack the Kurds for a long time. They have been fighting forever. We have no soldiers or Military anywhere near the attack area. I am trying to end the ENDLESS WARS. Talking to both sides. Some want us to send tens of thousands of soldiers to the area and start a new war all over again. Turkey is a member of NATO. Others say STAY OUT, let the Kurds fight their own battles (even with our financial help). I say hit Turkey very hard financially & with sanctions if they don’t play by the rules! I am watching closely.
Like they would give a crap about a bunch of non white and/or non-Christian people getting slaughtered.
timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
zoonation
Footballguy
yeah. what a buffoon.Donald’s Facebook message
Turkey has been planning to attack the Kurds for a long time. They have been fighting forever. We have no soldiers or Military anywhere near the attack area. I am trying to end the ENDLESS WARS. Talking to both sides. Some want us to send tens of thousands of soldiers to the area and start a new war all over again. Turkey is a member of NATO. Others say STAY OUT, let the Kurds fight their own battles (even with our financial help). I say hit Turkey very hard financially & with sanctions if they don’t play by the rules! I am watching closely.
HellToupee
Footballguy
President Trump did the right thing. Obama illegally entered Syria and was supporting a quasi-nation state within its borders. And we were obligated to defend it forever? Against Turkey, a NATO ally? This was never going to end well. President Trump was right to finally pull the plug and end what would have become another endless war.Watch them closely and hit Turkey with sanctions if the overstep
timschochet
Footballguy
You’re wrong. I’ve explained why.
But even if you were right, the way he did it, suddenly, without consultation with the Kurds, our other allies, or the Pentagon, in such a way that allowed Turkey to attack immediately, is as big a catastrophe as the decision itself, and just as indefensible.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Pulling out of Syria is one thing, pulling the rug out from under everyone - including our own Pentagon - is quite another.
And informing everyone about via a tweet is cowardly even for President Bone Spurs..
And informing everyone about via a tweet is cowardly even for President Bone Spurs..
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sho nuff
Footballguy
This is not the right thing.
Abandoning allies and allowing a resurgence of ISIS to appease Erdogan and Putin is not the right thing.
Sanctions after the death of thousands are toothless.
E Street Brat
Footballguy
I’ve skipped a few pages here so hopefully it’s already been stated up thread, but seeing the words, allies, friends, and loyal is far from accurate when talking about the Syrian Kurds.
The Syrian Kurds here are not really our friends or allies. They are more of an enemy of our enemy.
I’m no big fan of Turkey here and what they are doing, but let’s not kid ourselves or sugar coat or pretend that the PPK Kurds are like Canadians to us.
The Syrian Kurds here are not really our friends or allies. They are more of an enemy of our enemy.
I’m no big fan of Turkey here and what they are doing, but let’s not kid ourselves or sugar coat or pretend that the PPK Kurds are like Canadians to us.
E Street Brat
Footballguy
I’m also amused by people who demanded Gitmo be closed and AQ fighters be released are now scared of ISIS [aka the JV team] prisons being emptied,
timschochet
Footballguy
This in particular is highly reminiscent of Neville Chamberlain’s guarantee of what remained of Czechoslovakia AFTER giving the Sudetenland to Germany. In the end it meant nothing.
timschochet
Footballguy
I’m not aware of anyone who demanded Gitmo be closed also demanding that AQ fighters be released. The argument, which I disagreed with, was that they deserved trial and regular imprisonment.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
They've been fighting shoulder to shoulder with the U.S. for five years. That makes them allies. They're not historically allies, but that's partially because we've repeatedly simply hung Kurds out to dry when we've been on the same side of things.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Could be, time will tell. It’s a gamble I don’t mind him taking.
I like it when Donald is bold
timschochet
Footballguy
That’s what we were doing. We were cutting back by using special forces. We’re destroying that strategy.
timschochet
Footballguy
Russia might as well walk into Ukraine right now. We won’t lift a finger.
E Street Brat
Footballguy
I don't think that is accurate. We've mostly supplied air support and intelligence. We haven't been dug into the same trenches. That said, it doesn't make it right, but these are not the same as the Iraqi Kurds. They are more like the Afghanistan Mujahideen. And I think that is important to remember if we're going to be honest.
Unless they lie and say they found NEW DIRT on Biden's son. We know that kind of bait would work for those dullards
E Street Brat
Footballguy
Or the democrats, Gotta burn all that evidence............................ I kid I kid. sorta
E Street Brat
Footballguy
Do you think our "Loyal Allies" the PPK were holding court and providing legal counsel is ISIS fighters? Forget it, Withdrawn
HellToupee
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
"Shoulder to shoulder" was mostly meant as a metaphor, but it's not like our forces haven't spent any time together. And the Iraqi Kurds you're referring to kind of are the same as the Syrian Kurds. Kurdistan was an area that now encompasses parts of Turkey, Syria, Iran, and Iraq. These are all the same groups.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Yeah you are right the Kurds did NOTHING to help us in the war
https://twitter.com/ric_cole/status/1182277768819728385
Trump is lucky that unless it is put on their timeline and not muted or blocked already that most Americans are too lazy or willfully blind to fact check his statements.
https://twitter.com/ric_cole/status/1182277768819728385
Trump is lucky that unless it is put on their timeline and not muted or blocked already that most Americans are too lazy or willfully blind to fact check his statements.
That one guy
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
They’ll probably really love us after we bail on them as Trump’s personal favor to Erdogan.
timschochet
Footballguy
I would suggest that the THREAT of force, and a small military presence, is what has protected weaker states like Ukraine, South Korea, and Taiwan from being invaded, and prevented war. I would suggest that if other nations don’t believe the possibility of that threat they will take advantage. This is what Teddy Roosevelt meant by talk softly and carry a big stick. Donald Trump speaks loudly and other nations are starting to realize he will never use the stick at all.
