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Moving Forward......Jackson or Mahomes...?

Who do you want as your real football QB?  

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Mahomes seems to have the demeaner that others want to join and play with. I get the opposite feeling about Jackson. It's like Lebron/Kobe vs. Jordan/Magic/Bird.... All are equally great, but if I were building a team around a player, I want the one who makes the others better, not the one who wants the spotlight and actually hurts the demeaner of the team. Jackson looked frustrated this weekend. His demeaner was horrible. His teammates noticed. He has some maturing to do. And, in actuality, this weekend could help him mature and make him better. Hopefully it does.

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As much as I enjoyed watching what Jackson did this year, I can’t be the only one that thinks this isn’t close right? Not saying the gaps enormous but I don’t think it’s a question. 

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Jackson too much involved in the running game for his team.  Mahomes doesn't have to put his body in harm's way for his team to be successful.  Mahomes all day.

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3 minutes ago, mlbnfl said:

As much as I enjoyed watching what Jackson did this year, I can’t be the only one that thinks this isn’t close right? Not saying the gaps enormous but I don’t think it’s a question. 

It's not close.

Madden or for entertainment? I'll take Lamar. 

Real life or FF dynasty? It's Pat

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It's again, as people are saying, all things constant, not close.

Mahomes brings plenty enough athleticism to be in the second tier of QB mobility (Jackson alone in Tier One) and passing prowess almost years plural ahead of Jackson's.

Mahomes, barring injury. That knee...

And Jackson taking those hits...

Wish them both injury-free sparkling careers. But right now, Sunday was a microcosm of strengths and weaknesses for each. 

Edited by rockaction
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I think Mahomes can fit into many systems and excel and lead a team.  Lamar has to have a specific offense built around his strengths (which Ravens have done wonderfully).  Lamar has a lot of room to grow and the Ravens could use a big possession type WR to compliment the speed of Brown.  That is what was missing. 

 

Mahomes has the more forgiving range of outcomes so he is the easy choice. 

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As @rockaction

 said, I wish both injury free sparkling careers - but in my mind malhomes is already the best qb in the NFL.  I think a better question would be Jackson or Watson.

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Can't argue with much of what has been said as a big fan of both. PM only a year older and much smoother all around.  But give LJ a better surrounding cast and it could get closer.

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How far forward are we talking, 3 years? 5 years? 10 years?

Truth be told, if its a 3 year window, I'd take Russell Wilson over either, and I'd probably have Rodgers over Jackson.

5+ year window, its Mahomes. 

8 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

I think a better question would be Jackson or Watson.

I'd agree with this. I'd probably take Jackson, but its pretty close. Super controversially I'm sure, I'd still take Baker Mayfield over either, with a legit NFL HC. I think both his and Jackson's 2019 will be outlier seasons.

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14 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

As @rockaction

 said, I wish both injury free sparkling careers - but in my mind malhomes is already the best qb in the NFL.  I think a better question would be Jackson or Watson.

I'd take Watson over Jackson too, though that is a lot closer.

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Good to see the common sense of not a single person picking jackson

That guy is going to have an RGIII end to his career.  You cannot run a qb 20 times a game up the middle of the field in todays nfl.  

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Lamar Jackson is both great and fun to watch. Make no mistake, defenses will slow that offense down. The curve will come around. Jackson will still be really good and his growth as a passer is noteworthy, but these types of, for lack of a better term, “wildcat” offenses eventually get figured out. Jackson is still an excellent QB, but Mahomes is an easy choice for me.

 

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7 minutes ago, Warhogs said:

I'm a little surprised this is unanimous.

 

I take it as more a complement to Patrick than anything. Nothing wrong with being #2.

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I love Lamar and have watched nearly every snap of his college and pro career, but the answer is Mahomes and I can't imagine anyone being in the same stratosphere as him any time soon.

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Close call for dynasty, I lean Mahomes.

In real life, Mahomes is the easy choice IMO. 

Edited by kittenmittens
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17 minutes ago, Warhogs said:

I'm a little surprised this is unanimous.

 

I am too, but Mahomes is the clear choice.  I want my QB to be dependable for years to come.  Sure, Mahomes got injured and missed a few games.  But I think he's a much smaller injury risk than Jackson going forward.

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1 hour ago, killface said:

Good to see the common sense of not a single person picking jackson

That guy is going to have an RGIII end to his career.  You cannot run a qb 20 times a game up the middle of the field in todays nfl.  

Funny that you never made this voictrous claim through the season.

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1 hour ago, Leroy Hoard said:

I take it as more a complement to Patrick than anything. Nothing wrong with being #2.

Number 2 on a list of 2.  There are a lot more QB's that I would take for the next couple years before Jackson.  

Edited by Chaz McNulty
edit. Maybe not a lot, but definitely 3 or 4.
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2 minutes ago, Chaz McNulty said:

Number 2 on a list of 2.  There are a lot more QB's that I would take for the next couple years before Jackson.  

Well he mentioned exactly 2.

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1 minute ago, Leroy Hoard said:

Well he mentioned exactly 2.

Is this where I chime in and talk about the virtues of 11? 

I'll see myself out...

Back onto the football off-topic: The question changes if you're asking from a pure fantasy perspective and you put a cap on the longevity. In that case, I think I'd rather have Jackson for a few years.

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17 minutes ago, kodycutter said:

alright, show yourself,  who is the 1 guy out of 67 that voted for Lamar?

I'm guessing his name is Lamar.

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Mahomes is the best player in the league right now with the very real potential to be the best to ever play QB imo. 

Jackson is perhaps the more exciting player to watch, but you gotta go mahomes here. I'd take mahomes over anyone in the nfl currently.

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If NFL was starting from scratch, Mahomes goes 1.1 no question. Jackson is in the discussion for 1.2 with Watson, Wilson, and not sure who else.

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I am with those who say this isn't close.  The answer is Mahomes. I think he and Russell Wilson are 1a and 1b right now for best QB in the league, and the thing is, Mahomes is like Wilson in that he could run like crazy and pile up rushing yards, but has already figured out that he will stay healthier being a passer who runs occasionally, rather than a running QB.  Jackson is still, by and large, a running QB and we have still never really seen a running QB excel over the long haul, just in spurts. 

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Mahomes has led an upper echelon offense for 2 straight seasons, Jackson has just done it for one. There is much more risk of an offense or QB falling back towards Earth after 1 huge season than after 2 straight, so that points in favor of Mahomes.

QB rushing ages worse than QB passing, is more hampered by minor injuries, and creates more injury risk. So that also points in favor of Mahomes, especially if we're looking at the next decade or two and not just the next season or two.

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Mahomes and it isn’t even remotely close IMO.  The ability and production that we have seen from him at such a young age is unprecedented.  He’s the Juan Soto of football.

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15 hours ago, travdogg said:

Truth be told, if its a 3 year window, I'd take Russell Wilson over either, and I'd probably have Rodgers over Jackson.

5+ year window, its Mahomes. 

So Mahomes has been better for the last two years and will be better 4-5 years from now, but isn't the guy you want for the next three years?

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2 hours ago, fred_1_15301 said:

Mahomes and it isn’t even remotely close IMO.  The ability and production that we have seen from him at such a young age is unprecedented.  He’s the Juan Soto of football.

I agree this question is really about how great Mahomes is, not any shortcomings Lamar has at this point in his career. To make it more interesting, I’ll ask what QB in NFL history would you have taken over Mahomes at a comparable stage in their careers?

For me, the conversation includes Marino, Montana, Brady, maybe Rodgers - and I would probably take Mahomes over at least a couple of them 

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4 minutes ago, The_Man said:

I agree this question is really about how great Mahomes is, not any shortcomings Lamar has at this point in his career. To make it more interesting, I’ll ask what QB in NFL history would you have taken over Mahomes at a comparable stage in their careers?

For me, the conversation includes Marino, Montana, Brady, maybe Rodgers - and I would probably take Mahomes over at least a couple of them 

Its hard to compare, mahones is made for the modern game...

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Easy call. Running backs get hurt more often than QBs. I’ll take Mahomes. 

unless LJax learns to stay in the pocket, or at least develop into a Russell Wilson (Or even Mahomes) type where he uses his legs to buy time to throw downfield, I can’t see a long career. 

but so long as he’s “next gen RGIII / Vick” I give it 3 seasons before he takes that one hit too many. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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4 hours ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

So Mahomes has been better for the last two years and will be better 4-5 years from now, but isn't the guy you want for the next three years?

I would disagree that Mahomes has been better than Wilson the last 2 seasons. Imagine Wilson with a good o-line, more weapons, and Andy Reid calling plays. I think very highly of Mahomes, but he's in a very QB friendly situation, Alex Smith put up huge numbers in 2017 in that offense. Wilson succeeds in spite of his situation.

I said Mahomes in 5+ years, because Wilson will be hitting an age where mobility start to go. Where Mahomes will still be smack dab in the middle of his prime. Right now, I'd take Wilson, and I don't think that is all that bold a call. 

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1 hour ago, travdogg said:

I would disagree that Mahomes has been better than Wilson the last 2 seasons. Imagine Wilson with a good o-line, more weapons, and Andy Reid calling plays. I think very highly of Mahomes, but he's in a very QB friendly situation, Alex Smith put up huge numbers in 2017 in that offense. Wilson succeeds in spite of his situation.

You act like Mahomes didn't dislocate his kneecap and wasn't playing with a mish-mash of scrub RBs and a star WR who missed 25% of the season in 2019.

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33 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

You act like Mahomes didn't dislocate his kneecap and wasn't playing with a mish-mash of scrub RBs and a star WR who missed 25% of the season in 2019.

I'm not arguing that Mahomes hasn't been an elite QB, I'm just arguing that I think Russell Wilson is better right now. Wilson plays with an o-line that protects nothing, and overcomes awful playcalling. Even with the mish-mash of RB's and Hill missing 25% of the season, Mahomes had better weapons too.

This is a side track, and its hairsplitting. Ultimately, Wilson and Mahomes are the top-2 QB's in the league in my opinion. I would bet that a poll of Wilson v. Mahomes over the next 3 years, would be a much closer vote, than Mahomes v. Jackson turned out to be.

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Mahomes makes ridiculous throws.  Lamar has improved so much as a passer, but he's not near the passer Mahomes is.  Lamar will not be able to keep this running style up for more than a few mores seasons would be my guess.  Mahomes reminds me of vintage Rodgers the way he can scramble around throw darts from different angles.  That isn't something you really teach.  

 

The question should be who would you pick between Mahomes and Russ.

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23 minutes ago, Manster said:

Mahomes makes ridiculous throws.  Lamar has improved so much as a passer, but he's not near the passer Mahomes is.  Lamar will not be able to keep this running style up for more than a few mores seasons would be my guess.  Mahomes reminds me of vintage Rodgers the way he can scramble around throw darts from different angles.  That isn't something you really teach.  

 

The question should be who would you pick between Mahomes and Russ.

I agree with this thoroughly but there seems to be a lot of people that believe that Jackson, with a little practice, will just learn how to be this type of thrower

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15 minutes ago, killface said:

I agree with this thoroughly but there seems to be a lot of people that believe that Jackson, with a little practice, will just learn how to be this type of thrower

At the beginning of the season I was saying the same. 

over the course of the year I feel like he regressed. His touch passes weren’t on target, and he was in way too much of a hurry to take off running. Effectively, no doubt,  but not evolving as a passer.

At this point, while I believe he can improve as a passer, I’m skeptical that he’ll    ever be as effective as Mahomes at throwing on the run. With hard work he could evolve to a Russell Wilson-esque “buy time scrambling so receivers can get open” type of QB, but only if he manages to avoid injury over the next couple of seasons.

and as I said above, I’m skeptical that happens. He plays balls-out & it’s really entertaining to watch. But history suggests his fearlessness will shorten his career. Fear can be a healthy trait for a QB. 

 

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1 hour ago, travdogg said:

I would bet that a poll of Wilson v. Mahomes over the next 3 years, would be a much closer vote, than Mahomes v. Jackson turned out to be.

agree with this. i am in the camp of doubting Wilson all of his career but he's got top tier talent and now clearly that veteran presence. Mahomes is getting there quicker than most, Jackson is probably a few years away. Once Brees and Rodgers leave the game, Wilson probably will be finally in the conversation at least.

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This ratio. Wow. 

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Too bad the poll isn't public. Have the 3 voters who voted for Jackson in the poll identified themselves and their reasoning?

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43 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

Too bad the poll isn't public. Have the 3 voters who voted for Jackson in the poll identified themselves and their reasoning?

I think they are raven maniacs.

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Here's some home cooking.  I was listening to a KC radio station and a former center for the chiefs who played while Montana was there, said Mahomnes was the best QB ever for the Chiefs.  Outside of Montana I would think maybe Smith, Green or Dawson would be the other choices and Mahomes has lapped the field.

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On 1/13/2020 at 2:01 PM, Jayrok said:

Jackson too much involved in the running game for his team.  Mahomes doesn't have to put his body in harm's way for his team to be successful.  Mahomes all day.

And who got hurt this year?

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16 minutes ago, zeamax said:

Here's some home cooking.  I was listening to a KC radio station and a former center for the chiefs who played while Montana was there, said Mahomnes was the best QB ever for the Chiefs.  Outside of Montana I would think maybe Smith, Green or Dawson would be the other choices and Mahomes has lapped the field.

He’s better than Chiefs-era Montana, IMO.

not ready to say “Montana in his prime” yet, but by the time he was with the chiefs he had some back issues, and while he did take them to the playoffs, he wasn’t as good as he was when he was with the Niners.

And unrelated to the point, he had to wear that hideous color red. 🤢 

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