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Please Help Joe Pick An MLS Team (1 Viewer)

Joe Bryant said:
My "true" soccer nerd friends say the same. I fully understand it. I just don't agree. 

I'm not a fan because I love soccer. I don't even like soccer. I'm a fan because I'm pulling for sports in America. 

So for me, this is MLS. 
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This makes sense in the short term - pick a team and kind of rally around sports coming back, at least on television. The women's league (NWSL) is also back playing so that may be worth checking out. Hopefully, it won't be long before NBA, baseball and football are all back, at least on TV.

I'm a big soccer fan and have tried with MLS pretty hard over the years.  I used to go to Fire games when I lived in Chicago about 15-20 years ago, but haven't been able to get back into it since we moved north.  We have a local semi-pro club here in Milwaukee and I buy 2 season tickets every season, otherwise my soccer time investment is all in Europe and the international tournaments.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Sadly, you may have to get an ESPN+ subscription to follow the Hammers next season.
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I have one, though I think my world will be okay. Though I do thank you for the concern. I never took to soccer regardless, and don't follow it all that closely. I did watch all of Euro 2008 though, when Greece was stunning everybody. That's about as close as I get to following it daily. 

I would ask if they're about to be relegated, but I should really look it up instead of wasting your time. 

 
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Joe Bryant said:
CletiusMaximus said:
I’ve always thought it’s hard to just decide you like a certain team. The best approach is to watch a dozen games and see if a team picks you. Failing that, go with your local team or the team closest to where you live. 
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That sounds romantic and all but I don't have time for that. I need a team now. 
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Reread bolded.

Go with local. See a couple games live to get the experience. Local will be easier to see on TV or live...if you plan on watching. Otherwise, roll some dice and just pick any old team.

MLS has the best equality of teams in the world, so you don't get perpetual top and bottom teams. As such, any team is likely to do well within a short time span.

 
Joe Bryant said:
That's awesome. 
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Wait, if the good works of a particular team weigh on your decision-making, I will say that the Houston Dynamo and Dynamo Charities does a TON for childhood cancer. And to further pull at your heartstrings . . .

Here’s a photo of Chance firing the pre-game cannon:  https://imgur.com/a/dGlOQUQ

The downside to picking the Dynamo, however, is that they’ve had losing records the last couple of seasons and failed to make the playoffs. 

 
Slapdash said:
Nashville the clear choice based on location.
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Thanks @Slapdash I don't really have any draw to Nashville, though. If anything, kind of prefer not Nashville. My friends from Nashville where complaining yesterday on twitter about how I hated Nashville. Then they started acting like they invented BBQ and it went downhill from there... ;)  

 
bigbottom said:
Wait, if the good works of a particular team weigh on your decision-making, I will say that the Houston Dynamo and Dynamo Charities does a TON for childhood cancer. And to further pull at your heartstrings . . .

Here’s a photo of Chance firing the pre-game cannon:  https://imgur.com/a/dGlOQUQ

The downside to picking the Dynamo, however, is that they’ve had losing records the last couple of seasons and failed to make the playoffs. 
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That's awesome. I love how it seems lots of these teams are super community focused. 

 
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Joe Bryant said:
Thanks @Slapdash I don't really have any draw to Nashville, though. If anything, kind of prefer not Nashville. My friends from Nashville where complaining yesterday on twitter about how I hated Nashville. Then they started acting like they invented BBQ and it went downhill from there... ;)  
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I hear ya. It would be hard to support a Raleigh team for me, luckily Charlotte has one coming next year.

I'd find Miami appealing because I love the kit and they are brand new. Philly Union and Houston Dynamo have strong pitches in here.

 
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Joe - you just want to pick someone for this tournament but don't get too attached. Next summer, Austin FC joins.  Sure they are the Austin Football Club, but their logo is a tree. 

No doubt they are quickly going to be the darlings of the MLS and win multiple titles.

Everyone is going to want to play and root for Austin FC.

 
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B Maverick said:
Sounds about right, although a couple teams may be AAA level...
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I was going to say AAA - the problem here is the comparison to the top leagues.  I don't think anybody is arguing MLS is close to top-7 league in the world (big 4 Europe, Dutch, Brazil and Mexico top of head are superior) but it's come a long way and is entertaining.  I think AAA baseball is a great comparison but is probably the floor and not the ceiling.

 
If you like to suffer you could go with Orlando City. Front office has not been able to get out of it's own way. Just like a few NFL teams. We do have new manager of operations Muzzi and a new manager in Pareja both from Dallas so there is hope.

Atmosphere and the stadium is great. Fanbase is outstanding. Not a real bad trip if you wanted to do a little get away see some soccer and visit the theme parks or do a little fishing. It's just a little hard to be a OCSC fan we seem to be the butt of a lot of jokes directed at us from other teams in the league. We did win last night but people will be sure to remind us that's only our 12 th win in the last 63 games.

I never would have believed I would be a soccer fan if you had told me I would 10 years ago. I'm glad I gave it a shot I really enjoy it especially when I go see them live nothing like it.

 
AAABatteries said:
I was going to say AAA - the problem here is the comparison to the top leagues.  I don't think anybody is arguing MLS is close to top-7 league in the world (big 4 Europe, Dutch, Brazil and Mexico top of head are superior) but it's come a long way and is entertaining.  I think AAA baseball is a great comparison but is probably the floor and not the ceiling.
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I would say lower. How many MLS players could play consistently in the big 3 euro leagues? Zero? One? Seems more like single A to me honestly. 

 
whoknew said:
Joe - you just want to pick someone for this tournament but don't get too attached. Next summer, Austin FC joins.  Sure they are the Austin Football Club, but their logo is a tree. 

No doubt they are quickly going to be the darlings of the MLS and win multiple titles.

Everyone is going to want to play and root for Austin FC.
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I avoid the darlings though. Darlings would be a negative. That's what has me leaning more towards something like Columbus Crew. Also just found out my guy Jimmy Haslam owns them. LOL. 

 
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Capella said:
I would say lower. How many MLS players could play consistently in the big 3 euro leagues? Zero? One? Seems more like single A to me honestly. 
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I watched part of the Union vs NYFC match this morning... and just watched most of the Leeds/Stoke match.  And even though Leeds (Leeds Leeds) SMOKED Stoke, I have to think that Stoke would have ran circles around the MLS teams I saw today. 

 
Jaysus said:
I watched part of the Union vs NYFC match this morning... and just watched most of the Leeds/Stoke match.  And even though Leeds (Leeds Leeds) SMOKED Stoke, I have to think that Stoke would have ran circles around the MLS teams I saw today. 
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There is no doubt imo the championship is better than MLS. Would MLS equate to League One?

 
Capella said:
I would say lower. How many MLS players could play consistently in the big 3 euro leagues? Zero? One? Seems more like single A to me honestly. 
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Sorry but this is just wrong, IMO.  There's a lot more players 0 or 1 that could immediately go play in the big 4 Euro leagues.  There's several that would go in and be immediate starters for lower level clubs - your Norwich's, Bournemouth's, etc.  Now if you are talking super clubs from across those 4 leagues then you are absolutely correct.

I can just use Almiron for example - he went from MLS to a starter on a mid-level EPL team.  He could easily be a player on just about any squad in the world.  Sure he may be an exception but that's before we get to bottom of the table teams.

Don't get me wrong though - MLS is absolutely inferior to those other leagues - but it's probably in the 8-12 range.  A decade ago that was probably 15-20.  They may have hit their peak for a while as it would take a couple of generations to bypass more.

 
Jaysus said:
I watched part of the Union vs NYFC match this morning... and just watched most of the Leeds/Stoke match.  And even though Leeds (Leeds Leeds) SMOKED Stoke, I have to think that Stoke would have ran circles around the MLS teams I saw today. 
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Yeah, the Championship could be the 8th best league - give or take a spot.

 
I think ESPN paid Joe to drum up interest in this MLS is Back tournament.  Which has to be one of the most lame names of a tournament ever.

 
Joe Bryant said:
Thanks @Slapdash I don't really have any draw to Nashville, though. If anything, kind of prefer not Nashville. My friends from Nashville where complaining yesterday on twitter about how I hated Nashville. Then they started acting like they invented BBQ and it went downhill from there... ;)  
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 Then root for their rival. I guess that would be Atlanta(?). 

 It introduces another entire level of smack talk. 🤷‍♂️

 That is if your friends even give a crap.

 
Ted Lange as your Bartender said:
I’ll throw Philadelphia Union out there for your consideration.

No FC or United in their name?  Check

cool logo?  Check

Fans?  The Sons of Ben have their own Netflix documentary 

Young US National Team prospects?  Check (Brendan Aaronson, Mark McKenzie)

The team began play in 2010, and historically they have not been very good, but they’ve developed a really fun fast paced, pressing style of play the last two years under Technical Director Ernst Tanner.  And last year they turned the corner by winning their first ever playoff game in exciting fashion. So they’re very much a team on the rise

NFL team is tough because there isn’t equal spending like the NFL (Despite a “salary cap”) so the Union are definitely a “have not” financially.  But they place a very heavy reliance of developing their own players through their Academy, which is its own full-time high school, the first of its kind developed in the US.  

So strictly from that perspective, I would say they are a nascent Pittsburgh Steelers pre-super Bowl dynasty, who also had a long time being bad before developing a style of play and the players to fit it (Also the Steelers rarely sign free agents as they prefer to grow their own players in-house).  Remains to be seen if the Union can achieve what the Steelers did

Also, Kevin Durant just bought into the Union as a minority owner.

Union play NYCFC this morning at 9AM - check it out
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Add in the fact they’re looking to grow organically via their academy.  

He’ll come around after the Union win this tournament. 

 
loser said:
 Then root for their rival. I guess that would be Atlanta(?). 

 It introduces another entire level of smack talk. 🤷‍♂️

 That is if your friends even give a crap.
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First thought was it will end up being Cincy or Columbus.  Atlanta has Orlando already, although with Miami entering it could conceivably be Orlando/Miami, Atlanta/Nashville, Cincy/Columbus.

 
AAABatteries said:
Sorry but this is just wrong, IMO.  There's a lot more players 0 or 1 that could immediately go play in the big 4 Euro leagues.  There's several that would go in and be immediate starters for lower level clubs - your Norwich's, Bournemouth's, etc.  Now if you are talking super clubs from across those 4 leagues then you are absolutely correct.

I can just use Almiron for example - he went from MLS to a starter on a mid-level EPL team.  He could easily be a player on just about any squad in the world.  Sure he may be an exception but that's before we get to bottom of the table teams.

Don't get me wrong though - MLS is absolutely inferior to those other leagues - but it's probably in the 8-12 range.  A decade ago that was probably 15-20.  They may have hit their peak for a while as it would take a couple of generations to bypass more.
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But how many could? I honestly don’t know enough about individual players but the perspective I always seem to see is very few could be regulars in the EPL or Bundselgia.

I mean I guess those teams in the 17-20 range are pretty dreadful I’ll grant you that. I’ve watched Norwich a bunch since the restart (I like watching the teams fighting for their relegation) and they are positively awful. 

 
AAABatteries said:
Sorry but this is just wrong, IMO.  There's a lot more players 0 or 1 that could immediately go play in the big 4 Euro leagues.  There's several that would go in and be immediate starters for lower level clubs - your Norwich's, Bournemouth's, etc.  Now if you are talking super clubs from across those 4 leagues then you are absolutely correct.

I can just use Almiron for example - he went from MLS to a starter on a mid-level EPL team.  He could easily be a player on just about any squad in the world.  Sure he may be an exception but that's before we get to bottom of the table teams.

Don't get me wrong though - MLS is absolutely inferior to those other leagues - but it's probably in the 8-12 range.  A decade ago that was probably 15-20.  They may have hit their peak for a while as it would take a couple of generations to bypass more.
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I split mine between AA and AAA based on the concept of a team and how they play.  Of course there are a few players in MLS that could do well in the EPL, like Almiron. Vela could too.  But as far as a full team, as they stand now, I really only see a few of them being competitive in the Championship.  I think the majority would be trying to get promoted to the Championship and the other half trying not to get relegated from the Championship.  I don't see any looking at promotion to the EPL.

An true MLS All Star team? they might compete for promotion, even if you aren't including the Rooneys, Nanis, Chicharitos, Zlatan's etc.  But any actual MLS team? AA/AAA for me.

 
AAABatteries said:
Sorry but this is just wrong, IMO.  There's a lot more players 0 or 1 that could immediately go play in the big 4 Euro leagues.  There's several that would go in and be immediate starters for lower level clubs - your Norwich's, Bournemouth's, etc.  Now if you are talking super clubs from across those 4 leagues then you are absolutely correct.

I can just use Almiron for example - he went from MLS to a starter on a mid-level EPL team.  He could easily be a player on just about any squad in the world.  Sure he may be an exception but that's before we get to bottom of the table teams.

Don't get me wrong though - MLS is absolutely inferior to those other leagues - but it's probably in the 8-12 range.  A decade ago that was probably 15-20.  They may have hit their peak for a while as it would take a couple of generations to bypass more.
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I could probably come up with 40-50 MLS players off the top of my head that could be playing in the lower half of Germany/Spain etc and that is being conservative.  Even a player as totally limited as Yedlin went from MLS to a multi year starter in the EPL.

In general players go where they can make the most money.  MLS teams have the ability to pay players more than the smaller teams in the big leagues.  I think people look at EPL salaries and assume its like that every where for every team in the big leagues.  It isn't.

Look at poor Schalke.  They are a top tier team in Germany typically, was just in the Champions League and they are flat out broke.  They are going to need to have a fire sale to stay alive.

 
I just moved to Portland and people here are pretty nuts about the Timbers.  Was thinking of following along, but like you, the British terminology for everything is awful especially when I hear Americans use them.  I'll be turned off if I hear things like pitch or sides or equalizer.

 
B Maverick said:
An true MLS All Star team? they might compete for promotion, even if you aren't including the Rooneys, Nanis, Chicharitos, Zlatan's etc.  But any actual MLS team? AA/AAA for me.
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This is why the comparison falls flat for me

MLS is simply organized differently than all Euro leagues.

The simplest explanation is that MLS is organized as a socialist league where as all Euro leagues are organized as capitalism leagues.

As we know, all the top talent in Europe funnels to the top small handful of teams (some leagues it is 3 or less legit teams).  They are defacto all star teams.  MLS does not do that as the talent is spread across the league in more of a traditional American sports model.

This makes MLS far more competitive top to bottom than most leagues but it also leaves the leagues best teams significantly weaker than the top teams in Europe.  And when fans typically only watch the top teams in Europe, the contrast can be huge.

Those of us who have watched the Sunderlands over the years can see the difference :)

 
Capella said:
But how many could? I honestly don’t know enough about individual players but the perspective I always seem to see is very few could be regulars in the EPL or Bundselgia.

I mean I guess those teams in the 17-20 range are pretty dreadful I’ll grant you that. I’ve watched Norwich a bunch since the restart (I like watching the teams fighting for their relegation) and they are positively awful. 
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Yeah - we are on the same page here.  Andy showed up and can answer this much better than me but there's a large number of players that can compete for positions on mid and bottom table teams in those 4 leagues.

Atlanta has 4 guys that would be guaranteed spots - Josef, Pity, Barco and Miles

They have a few more that wouldn't be out of their depth playing for Norwich - Guzan, Hyndman, Remedi

That's 7 players from one team that I am confident that would make the cut. 

 
AAABatteries said:
Yeah - we are on the same page here.  Andy showed up and can answer this much better than me but there's a large number of players that can compete for positions on mid and bottom table teams in those 4 leagues.

Atlanta has 4 guys that would be guaranteed spots - Josef, Pity, Barco and Miles

They have a few more that wouldn't be out of their depth playing for Norwich - Guzan, Hyndman, Remedi

That's 7 players from one team that I am confident that would make the cut. 
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I think you could make an average of 4-5 per team across the league (which speaks to my point about how talent is spread across the league).

And this doesn't even talk about players in MLS academies who are walking into first teams in the big leagues in Europe like Swag and Gio and others have.

 
Joe Bryant said:
My "true soccer" friends say MLS is like AA baseball compared to Premier League. That sound right?
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Yes. I've been watching a lot  of the Bundesliga and Premier League in recent weeks. The MLS game last night was brutal in comparison but I will stick with it because like you I'm rooting for US sports to succeed during Covid.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Yes. I've been watching a lot  of the Bundesliga and Premier League in recent weeks. The MLS game last night was brutal in comparison but I will stick with it because like you I'm rooting for US sports to succeed during Covid.
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I'm trying to stay out of the 'ranking' of leagues.  But the Bundesliga games looked pretty rough when they first returned also.  I didn't watch last night's MLS game, but I have to assume there was rust there as well.  

 
Slapdash said:
Nashville the clear choice based on location.
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You must not be familiar with the 3 Grand Divisions of Tennessee.  The East Tennessee folk sometimes don't want to be grouped with their West and Central brethren (according to my friends from Johnson City and Kingsport).

Not having a dog in the fight, I would have picked Atlanta.  I like the United moniker, their kits are great, they have good talent, and they have a stadium (which is awesome) that is close enough for me to go to if I wanted to catch a game live.  The fans are actually pretty rabid as well (which is unusual given Atlanta's track record).

 
Poke_4_Life said:
I'm trying to stay out of the 'ranking' of leagues.  But the Bundesliga games looked pretty rough when they first returned also.  I didn't watch last night's MLS game, but I have to assume there was rust there as well.  
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some one on reddit made a funny video of two teams in the Bundesliga (I forget which but not the big name teams) from their first game back as a compilation of all the unforced errors.  It was like watching the key stone cops.

But if people are watching arguably one of the most elegant teams in the world like Dortmund play a lot(which due to the Gio factor is likely high), then sure, the average MLS game is going to look very rough.   

 
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NewlyRetired said:
I could probably come up with 40-50 MLS players off the top of my head that could be playing in the lower half of Germany/Spain etc and that is being conservative.  Even a player as totally limited as Yedlin went from MLS to a multi year starter in the EPL.

In general players go where they can make the most money.  MLS teams have the ability to pay players more than the smaller teams in the big leagues.  I think people look at EPL salaries and assume its like that every where for every team in the big leagues.  It isn't.

Look at poor Schalke.  They are a top tier team in Germany typically, was just in the Champions League and they are flat out broke.  They are going to need to have a fire sale to stay alive.
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THERE HE IS :wub:

 
NewlyRetired said:
some one on reddit made a funny video of two teams in the Bundesliga (I forget which but not the big name teams) from their first game back as a compilation of all the unforced errors.  It was like watching the key stone cops.

But if people are watching arguably one of the most elegant teams in the world like Dortmund play a lot, then sure, the average MLS game is going to look very rough.   
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first 3-4 games for each team across the board looked rough. I commented back then that it reminded me of watching an preseason MLS game.

VERY glad to see you back. HOpe all's well

 
NewlyRetired said:
This is why the comparison falls flat for me

MLS is simply organized differently than all Euro leagues.

The simplest explanation is that MLS is organized as a socialist league where as all Euro leagues are organized as capitalism leagues.

As we know, all the top talent in Europe funnels to the top small handful of teams (some leagues it is 3 or less legit teams).  They are defacto all star teams.  MLS does not do that as the talent is spread across the league in more of a traditional American sports model.

This makes MLS far more competitive top to bottom than most leagues but it also leaves the leagues best teams significantly weaker than the top teams in Europe.  And when fans typically only watch the top teams in Europe, the contrast can be huge.

Those of us who have watched the Sunderlands over the years can see the difference :)
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This is really the key point here.

Obviously the big leagues have more talent than MLS.  And that isn't likely to change any time soon.

MLS simply can't afford to take the full "capitalist" approach because the main goal is still to grow the sport nationwide. If they allowed the gap between the haves and the have nots to be as big as it is in England, Spain, Germany and France (and others) it would hurt the long term growth of the league because small market/low spending fan bases wouldn't have as much reason to watch. In England, the long-term fans of clubs like Norwich will be die hards no matter what. Its part of the local culture passed down through generations.

So the result is a flatter league that makes it harder to elite teams to emerge and truly demonstrate the top level of play that MLS has.

I'm a soccer fan but dont really watch much MLS. The LA vs LA games were exciting last year (although Zlatan leaving ruins that for me) and some other teams are fun at times.  But I dont have a lot of incentive to watch on TV. Soccer in person is a lot of fun though.

 
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Poke_4_Life said:
I'm trying to stay out of the 'ranking' of leagues.  But the Bundesliga games looked pretty rough when they first returned also.  I didn't watch last night's MLS game, but I have to assume there was rust there as well.  
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First game out of the box was an expansion team and a team that’s never had much success.  It would be like having the first EPL match be Norwich and Brighton.

 
Jaysus said:
I watched part of the Union vs NYFC match this morning... and just watched most of the Leeds/Stoke match.  And even though Leeds (Leeds Leeds) SMOKED Stoke, I have to think that Stoke would have ran circles around the MLS teams I saw today. 
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Thats not a fair comparison. Bielsa is a god. Give him the keys to any MLS team and they beat lower level Premiership teams

And lets not get all wholly on European leagues. The French league sucks outside of 1-2 teams and you know what, La Liga isnt much better outside Barca and Madrid. EPL, Bundesliga, and Seria A (maybe) would be my ranking

 
This was the last MLS national TV match before everything shut down.

Anyone who watched this game live, and then were told that MLS is only ever going to be “AA” would just shake their heads.  They are (were?) clearly on the right trajectory as a league.  This was as exciting as any match I’ve ever watched.

if you watch nothing else in this video, make sure you see the Jacob Glesnes rocket from 35 yards at the 2:30 mark.  As good as any free kick goal you’ll ever see by anyone in any league.  And it was hit by a center back.

 
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AAABatteries said:
First game out of the box was an expansion team and a team that’s never had much success.  It would be like having the first EPL match be Norwich and Brighton.
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There has probably never been a MLS game as bad as Spurs v. Bournemouth was today.  That was wretched.

 
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