In this thread I rank my favorite post-Beatles Beatles songs: 291-1. (2 Viewers)

Raging weasel said:

Always wondered if there was any significance to the 5th of November. Thanks to you, now I know!

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krista4 said:

It'll be fine; no one will have read it here.

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krista4 said:

Still, a solid song that will be on my supplemental "Favorite post-Beatles Beatles songs 291-580" list.  I am NOT serious about that.

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krista4 said:

Getting back to this, I realized that I don't want to respond too much, because a "well, here's why I don't like these" gets into the kind of back-and-forth I have precisely zero interest in.  I love the post and hearing what you love/like/dislike/hate in these, so I encourage differing opinions on these songs!  Given some earlier comments, I know that some of people's favorites did not make my list at all; some because I despise the song, some just based on multiple cuts and trying to get the number of songs for discussion down to a more reasonable number. 

I will say, as to the two above:

1.   Wild Life was on my initial list of Paul songs I enjoy the most, which numbered something like 250, and in fact made it through the second set of cuts as well.  It's the vocal, which I love, that kept it on the list for so long, plus I note that I love his saying "aminals."    I didn't write down why it didn't make the final cut, but I suspect it's the length, as it starts to wear on me after a while.  Still, a solid song that will be on my supplemental "Favorite post-Beatles Beatles songs 291-580" list.  I am NOT serious about that.

2.  Some People Never Know didn't make the first cut, but I think it's a nice enough song.  My problem with it is the opposite of something you like:  the lyrics.  For humor only, I'll say that OH's only comment on this one was "I'm afraid I'm going to remain one of those people."

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krista4 said:

197.  John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band – Remember (John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band, 1970)  Spotify  YouTube

(John #40)

The melody for this song was adapted from an earlier John composition called “Across The Great Water,” which he had worked on in early 1970.  In the studio, however, John’s harsh pounding of the piano keys and the driving rhythms from Voormann and Ringo made it into much more of a rocker.  Voormann’s and Ringo’s work on this song is outstanding in my opinion – they really keep it all together as John combines different meters and tempos in a way that sounds a bit random. 

The lyrics are, as with the rest of this album, describing memories of John’s unstable childhood, revealed in his therapy, that he was working out through the songs.  The lyrics of the verses relay childhood memories of adults acting “phony” and seeing everything in black-and-white, with “heroes” and “villains” playing their parts…I’m just going to copy the lyrics below for you to form your own opinions on all of this, since interpretations vary and these songs were meant for us each to take in based on our own experiences. 

One notable portion of the song is an adaptation of the first lines of Sam Cooke’s “Bring It On Home To Me.”  Cooke’s lines,  “If you ever change your mind, about leaving, leaving me behind” become “If you ever change your mind, about leaving it all behind” and then go on, “Remember, remember today” before leading into the first chorus, if anything in this song could reasonably be called a chorus:  “Don't feel sorry the way it's gone, and don't you worry about what you've done.” Though Cooke in his song is inviting a lover to join him, in the context of John’s song, the adapted lyrics seem to encourage one to address the past but then leave it behind, and even more importantly to remember this moment of clarity and calm, which will undoubtedly be challenged when the past causes pain again in the future.

Speaking of that “chorus,” it’s the most musically pleasing part of the song to me, slowing the beat down for a beautiful melody before the driving beat resumes.  After the second “chorus,” as John once again reminds us to “remember,” he suddenly explodes into a scream of “the fifth of November” followed by the sound of an explosion.   The reference of “remember, remember, the 5th of November” is to a nursery rhyme about Guy Fawkes Night.  John ad-libbed that line and then cut the rest of the song off and added the explosion:  “In England it’s the day they blew up the Houses of Parliament. We celebrate it by having bonfires every November the fifth. It was just an ad lib. It was about the third take, and it begins to sound like Frankie Laine – when you’re singing ‘remember, remember the fifth of November.’ And I just broke and it went on for about another seven or eight minutes. I was just ad libbing and goofing about. But then I cut it there and it just exploded ’cause it was a good joke.”

The song was recorded on John’s 30th birthday (10/9/70).  George stopped by Abbey Road Studios in his Ferrari that day to wish John a happy birthday and give him a plastic flower in celebration; the two had a nice visit in a break from John’s recording of the song.  A not-so-successful visit occurred the same day, as John had invited his father, Alf Lennon, for lunch.  Alf, his wife, and their 18-month-old son (whom John had never met) joined John, but the get-together turned into a lengthy tirade by John against his father, utilizing learnings from his primal scream therapy .  According to Alf, John, becoming ever more angry and ending in screams, described the therapy he had undergone and shouted about his dead mother “in unspeakable terms,” then turning to similar rants against his Aunt Mimi and some of his close friends, before comparing himself to Hendrix and others who had died and calling himself “bloody mad, insane” and predicting an early death for himself as well.  Alf concluded:  “There was no doubt whatsoever in my mind, that he meant every word he spoke, his countenance was frightful to behold, as he explained in detail, how I would be carried out to sea and dumped, ‘twenty – fifty – or perhaps you would prefer a hundred fathoms deep.’ The whole loathsome tirade was uttered with malignant glee, as though he were actually participating in the terrible deed.”  This was the last time that John ever saw his father.

Remember when you were young
How the hero was never hung
Always got away

Remember how the man
Used to leave you empty handed
Always, always let you down

If you ever change your mind
About leaving it all behind
Remember, remember today
Hey hey

Don't feel sorry
The way it's gone
And don't you worry
About what you've done

Just remember
When you were small
How people seemed so tall
Always had their way
Hey hey

Do you remember your ma and pa
Just wishing for movie stardom
Always, always playing a part

If you ever feel so sad
And the whole world is driving you mad
Remember, remember today
Hey hey

Don't feel sorry
About the way it's gone
Don't you worry
About what you've done

Remember
Remember, the Fifth of November

&

196.  John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band - Look At Me (John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band, 1970)  Spotify  YouTube

(John #39)

Just going to throw this one up here today as well, since it’s from the same album. 

John began writing this song in 1968 while the Beatles were with the maharishi in India and picked it up again during this time when he realized how relevant the lyrics were to his therapeutic sessions:  “Who am I supposed to be?”  “What am I supposed to do?” “Who am I?”  The finger-picking guitar style will sound familiar as the style they’d learned from Donovan on that trip and often adopted for tracks on the White Album, notably including “Julia.”  The song doesn’t showcase any exciting twists or turns, but I love that repeating pattern as he increases the urgency of the questions just slightly on each turn.  The highlight of the song for me is John’s highly vulnerable double-tracked vocal. 

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Morton Muffley said:

Thanks Krista.  Appreciate the restraint and am not the least bit surprised that Some People Never Know failed to convert OH    nor that it wasn't on your list.  As I wrote to @Raging weasel, I have never been able to appreciate Walls and Bridges so I completely understand how tastes vary: by musical knowledge, personal preferences, life situation, etc.  

And as I wrote, I have a particularly fondness for Paul screaming in tune and indeed have on my Paul 100 that I find superior to the released track SOLELY due to the tuneful screaming/vocal.  

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Pip's Invitation said:

Explosion aside, these are two of the less-challenging-on-the-ears songs from JL/POB, but they offer plenty of insights nonetheless. I never realized how close Look at Me is to Julia until you brought it up. 

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Morton Muffley said:

In Defense of Wild Life, the first album from Wings:

Exhibit #1: Dear Friend, a song to John

Many people consider this to be an olive branch response to John’s How Do You Sleep? But as it was recorded about a month before the release of Imagine album (on which How Do You Sleep? resides), that seems highly unlikely.  That is, unless John was sending Paul demo tapes of his upcoming musical assaults!  Or maybe Paul got a decades early screening of the Imagine film in which John calls Paul the c-word on a rehearsal version of the song.

More likely, Paul was simply responding to the many things John was saying about Paul in the press.  In any case, the song is pretty clearly a heartfelt attempt to, if not reconcile, at least bury the hatchet.  I write “pretty clearly,” because while the emotion and subject are obvious, the lyrics are not:

• “Throw the wine”? is that even an expression?
  
• “Are you a fool?” Umm, if you are looking to reconcile, maybe leave the name calling out of it
  
• “Does it really mean so much to you?” Paul, I’m not sure you understand quite how to do this
  

Ok, so my defense isn’t going that well, but hang in there because...

Exhibit #2: Wild Life, a song to people who don’t appreciate animals

Inspired by a trip Paul took to an African wild life sanctuary during which he saw a posted sign that read “the animals have the right of way.” It caused Paul to reflect that “we’re all so full of our own importance. It’s kind of nice, you know. You’re just a guy in a Land Rover. You don’t matter so much! So that was why I wrote that song. Man, you know, we’re the ‘top species,’ and yet we’re the ones who eff it up”

Ok, so that’s all well and good, but here’s what I really love about the song:

• Paul’s vocals.  I love when he screams in tune and think he does/did it better than anyone else.  This song has plenty of that classic screaming.
  
• The groove/vibe.  He’s screaming, but it’s not a fast, rocking song.  Some may even find the pace a bit ponderous, but I really like it.  I’m admittedly not musically schooled, but I’d classify it as Jamaican Blues Pop.  Does that make any sense?  Does that sound appealing?  Well, it is to me.
  
• That he recognizes the potential preachiness of the subject matter and so on at least two occasions changes “animals” to “aminals.” 
  

Exhibit #3: Some People Never Know, a song to @krista4

Ok, so maybe he didn’t have Krista in mind exactly, but he had people LIKE Krista in mind. This song is intended for all the people who don’t see Linda the way Paul sees Linda.  Is it sappy?  Well, it’s no My Love if that’s what you are asking @Pip's Invitation But as with Silly love Songs, Paul takes that cynicism on directly with lyrics like “some people can sleep at nighttime believing that love is a lie.”  So, yeah it may be sappy to some, but I prefer to look at it differently.  Paul was in a depression in the immediate break-up of the Beatles and Linda helped him out of that funk. In this song he expresses his immense gratitude.  If you've ever been saved (in whatever small way) by another person…someone whose faith in you was greater than your own…someone who didn’t simply TELL you that you were good, but who lovingly MADE you a better person: then maybe this song will mean something to you.  I have and it does all those things to me.  Here’s what else I love about this song:

• The simplicity: I am not a fan of big and bloated, something that will become increasingly apparent as we get to a few of the McCartney "classics."  This song has a lot of what I love about Every Night (from his first album), but not quite as successfully…but close enough to land relatively high in my Paul 100
  
• The double meaning of the title: whether intentional or not, I find the title lyric to be sublime.  It contains two distinct meanings: 1. Some people don’t understand what I see in you 2. Some people will never experience what I have
  
• The bongos.  Every time I listen to this song I get to the end and I think “oh yeah, the bongos. Why the eff are there bongos in this song?  Where did they come from? Have they been in this song the whole time?  I need to listen to this song again to see when the bongos arrive because it feels like they just showed up for the last minute and that makes NO sense.” Truly, I feel like the bongos are the musical equivalent of that youtube focus test with the gorilla and the basketball passes.  Does anyone have ANY idea what the eff I am talking about?  Anyway, it’s late, I’m tired and I'm rambling…
  

Exhibit #4: It was their first album, they recorded it in a week for crissakes.  What happened to grading on a curve?

Ok, so it isn’t a great defense.  And it’s admittedly not a great album.  But it has it's charms and the above 3 songs plus the aforementioned Mumbo are several of them.

The defense rests [in hopes of at least one rogue juror who can hang this proceeding]

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krista4 said:

Sue me!

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krista4 said:

---MINI-LUDE –John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band - John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band (1970)---

This record, like All Things Must Pass and Band On The Run, feels like it needs no introduction, or rather any ---INTERLUDE---, but just in case an asteroid hits and leaves nothing but this thread for historical record, which could totally happen, I’ll type out a little in a new and innovative concept, the ---MINI-LUDE---.

From the time it was released in 1970 (on the same day as the similarly titled and packaged album by Yoko), this has been considered John’s masterpiece, never to be repeated.  And of course it couldn’t be repeated, given the source of the songs was a deep emotional cleansing that couldn’t have been re-attempted with the same honesty and depth.  That doesn’t mean this was immediately a hit with the public, though it did reach #6 on the US charts.  As Ringo termed it, the album didn’t contain any “toe-tappers” that would result in hit songs. 

Ringo was right; these songs weren’t put together to be commercial or to provide a laid-back listening experience.  Instead, the album’s songs arose from the five months of primal scream therapy that John and Yoko undertook under the guidance of Arthur Janov, the psychotherapist who developed the therapy, which (I’m simplifying this significantly) encourages patients to relive repressed traumatic experiences and feelings from childhood in the belief that the repression of such memories leads to untold emotional damage in adults.  When John and Yoko received Janov’s book in the mail from its publisher, which circulated the book unrequested to famous people hoping to find some endorsements in advance of its publication, John turned to Yoko and said, “It’s you,” in reference to her vocal stylings, and after devouring the book quickly became convinced this was exactly what he needed.  Though this form of therapy remains controversial to say the least, it resonated with John, who’d suffered, among other things, the near-full abandonment by his father, his shuttling at the age of six to his Aunt Mimi to be raised by her, and then the death of his mother Julia in a car accident when he was 18.  In the midst of his therapy, however, visa issues brought it to an abrupt end.  To continue using the therapeutic experiences he'd learned with Janov, John then composed the most personal and intense songs of his life, directly addressing his feelings of abandonment and other suffering by unleashing a torrent of raw pain.  Not even “Help!” had been so blunt in relaying his visceral emotion.  Although John did not set out to make a commercial record, he did believe that the feelings he expressed were universal, and in that sense he wasn’t simply acting out his own needs but hoped that the audience could connect and recognize their own stories within the songs. 

As with the lyrical content of the songs, the production of this album was likewise raw and stark, which might be a surprise given that Phil Spector was involved.  Unlike Spector’s usual Wall of Sound, these were produced in a simple, sparse style, but with an in-your-face intensity.  In addition to John’s use of his guitar in a primitive (John’s word) style to accentuate the honesty of the lyrics, he also instructed his tiny band – consisting only of Voormann and Ringo for the vast majority of the material – to adopt this same primitive style.  The idea, they were told, was not to strive for perfection but to play with honest energy.  Their tight playing on these songs provides a strong foundation and an energy for the overlay of John’s lyrical and musical brutality.

Each song on this album other than the 49-second “My Mummy’s Dead” will be on my countdown.  These songs so clearly and directly speak for themselves that I needn’t say any more, but I’m sure I will anyway. 

The cover art is a photo taken of John and Yoko at their estate by one of their assistants; a nearly identical photo graces the cover of Yoko's simultaneously released album, except with the two of them switched in position.  It's such a peaceful and serene cover considering what's inside. 

Track listing:

1. Mother
   
2. Hold On
   
3. I Found Out
   
4. Working Class Hero
   
5. Isolation
   
6. Remember
   
7. Love
   
8. Well Well Well
   
9. Look At Me
   
10. God
    
11. My Mummy’s Dead
    

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krista4 said:

Oh Woman, Oh Why?

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Pip's Invitation said:

That's George's song. 

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krista4 said:

Sue you!

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Morton Muffley said:

I love this album and think it is absolute work of art.  I remember the first time I heard it.  I was 14, had devoured all the Beatles catalog and was beginning to turn my attention to the solo work of Lennon, McCartney and  (a little bit of George).  This album was maybe the 6th or 7th solo Beatles album I consumed (after Imagine, Band on the Run, All Things Must Pass, Tug of War, Double Fantasy - and maybe and Venus and Mars) and can remember beginning to clean my room after dropping the needle (yeah, I'm old and it was a library copy).  Anyway, I started to tidy my room but within 1-2 minutes I was struck with the clarity that "this is NOT a record to be listened to passively, this record demands my attention."  I sat on the edge of my bed overwhelmed by the raw emotion of Mother.  I don't know if I cried, but I certainly felt something in me that I'd never felt from music before.  I felt pain.  I felt John's pain and I empathized completely with it.  I knew John's life story already so it wasn't hard to understand everything he was railing against in Mother or to be moved by the line in I Found Out: "they didn't want me so they made me a star."  I never liked concept albums as I generally felt that the whole was less than the sum of the parts.  But this album didn't feel like it could even be broken into songs, this was a whole whose parts were great, but whose whole was genius.  Indeed, I rarely listen to a single song from this album.  Mostly I listen to an entire side or to the entirety.  And yes, I too don't listen to it a frequently as other John songs/albums but I don't judge a song/album by how frequently I listen to it.  I judge it by what it does to me.  I am a Kubrick fan and also have seen each of Fletch, Holy Grail, Butch Cassidy, and Reservoir Dogs many more times than 2001, Barry Lyndon, or Paths of Glory.  And yet each of those Kubrick movies is, in my estimation, inarguably superior to those other wonderful movies I enjoy so much/frequently.

Back to Plastic Ono Band: after "discovering" this wonder I tried to play the album for a few friends, but they didn't hear what I heard.  Or maybe the time and place was simply wrong.  I don't know, but for years this felt like my secret passion.  Others I met may have loved the Imagine album or were Beatles fans or liked Instant Karma, but I seemed to be the only one I knew who had connected so powerfully with this album.  Anyway, am rambling again.  Looking forward to discussing the individual songs, but did want to make the case for others to listen to the album in its entirety rather than song-by-song.  

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Morton Muffley said:

No, that's on my list, but not the one I was referring to.  If I said "rough and ready demos" does that help?  Am honestly not trying to play games so if you really want to know I'll tell you, but was thinking it's possible that it's on your list and we could discuss the demo then.

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krista4 said:

MINI-LUDE 

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krista4 said:

I might not have read closely enough, trying to get back to my Band On The Run MINI-LUDE while meanwhile nearly vomiting over the RBG news.  I usually hate being on the "guessing" side of guessing games (which doesn't prevent me from being on the other side in my thread contest), so it was a one-off that I tried.  Having failed, I don't think I'll do it again for many more years.     It's up to you if you wish to share or save it, though!

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krista4 said:

I might not have read closely enough, trying to get back to my Band On The Run MINI-LUDE while meanwhile nearly vomiting over the RBG news.  I usually hate being on the "guessing" side of guessing games (which doesn't prevent me from being on the other side in my thread contest), so it was a one-off that I tried.  Having failed, I don't think I'll do it again for many more years.     It's up to you if you wish to share or save it, though!

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Pip's Invitation said:

There were probably some of those at the Wild Life sessions too. 

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Morton Muffley said:

 

Ok, given that it's unlikely that it's on your, list I'll spill:

The demo on my list is The Lovers that Never Were.  Again, am partial to anything that Paul screams in.  Add in the presence of another musical hero of mine (Elvis Costello) and I like it more than is rationally deserved.

RIP RBG...on the plus side, am hopeful that while the supreme court seat will be a key election issue for both sides that her passing so close to election will allow us to properly recognize/mourn her without immediately discussing the political ramifications.

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Morton Muffley said:

Can't stop ME from guessing, so put me down for Mrs. Vandebilt.  This low only because of Ho - Hey - Ho.  Then again you didn't seem mind "toot-toot" as much as me and @Pip's Invitation, so maybe it's Helen Wheels.  We'll see

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krista4 said:

Btw, I don't include Helen Wheels on Band On The Run as it was a single not included on the original UK version.  I call it a "single" in my rankings.

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Pip's Invitation said:

Those Brits and their weird single/album configurations.

As far as I'm concerned, Helen Wheels is on Band on the Run, ELO's Showdown is on On the Third Day, and that's that. And don't get me started on the US and UK versions of the Clash's debut, which are basically entirely different albums. 

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krista4 said:

You do you.

It wasn't on the original album release where it matters.   

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krista4 said:

Maybe it matters or not to anyone else but Paul and me, but it wasn't intended to be on either the UK or US release, and Paul had to be dragged kicking and screaming to put it on the US release.  

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Pip's Invitation said:

I get where he's coming from, because the Beatles hated that Capitol chopped up their UK albums and released them in different forms in the US. But to US listeners, HW has always been a part of that album, and it's the only thing that's different from Paul's vision of it. 

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krista4 said:

Ah, our rules are different, and I'm only including songs that were released on contemporaneous albums or singles.  No demos need apply.  The final version from Off The Ground, however, is on my list.

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krista4 said:

@Morton Muffley, which is your favorite Paul solo or Wings album?  No weasel words allowed (no offense to raging weasel nor implication that you would), just a simple answer, please.   

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krista4 said:

I'll start:  if I could only listen to one, I'd choose Flaming Pie.  Band On The Run is a very close second.

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krista4 said:

Actually, I should open this up to everyone.  I was asking Morton as being the most unabashedly Paul guy, but Shaft is, too, and even those who might have other "favorites" love Paul as well.  To me, it seems like George has one obvious choice for everyone, and Ringo is...well, Ringo.  We've had some discussion of John, and while there can be love for Imagine or Walls and Bridges, it seems like most everyone gravitates to Plastic Ono Band if forced to name a favorite.

But Paul has so many.  Maybe y'all go chalk with Band On The Run, which would be understandable, but it seems like he has a lot of great options that could be in the mix.

I'll start:  if I could only listen to one, I'd choose Flaming Pie.  Band On The Run is a very close second.

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krista4 said:

@Morton Muffley, which is your favorite Paul solo or Wings album?  No weasel words allowed (no offense to raging weasel nor implication that you would), just a simple answer, please.   

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• Chaos and Creation: when I want to embrace a certain mournfulness 
  
• Tug of War: when I am feeling nostalgic...Not because the music is nostalgic but because that album is so personally connected to MY youth
  
• Flaming Pie: when I just want to enjoy some classic Paul music
  
• Band on the Run: when I am cleaning the house - because I need energy to clean AND I need to be mobile in order to advance the CD player when two songs come on that I just cannot listen to.  What artist wouldn't be pleased to hear that one of his biggest fans appreciates one of his masterpieces because the closing track gives him JUST the energy he needs to finish scrubbing the toilet with passion and determination! Is there a higher compliment than that?
  

krista4 said:

@Morton Muffley, which is your favorite Paul solo or Wings album?  No weasel words allowed (no offense to raging weasel nor implication that you would), just a simple answer, please.   

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Raging weasel said:

Not offended but what are weasel words?

My fav is Band on the Run 

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krista4 said:

197.  John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band – Remember (John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band, 1970)  Spotify  YouTube

(John #40)

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Morton Muffley said:

Ram would be #1 for me, and has been for decades.  And fwiw, I feel like Ram is now chalk within the McCartney community.

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Pip's Invitation said:

As I said earlier, I’ve listened to very few solo Beatles albums all the way through, so I can’t really answer the best Paul album question.

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krista4 said:

I knew Ram was beloved, but this is interesting.  Of course, I don't know what "the McCartney community" is and probably want to keep it that way.    Not just Paul, but I don't want to be part of any Beatles community other than the little one we have here.  

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Pip's Invitation said:

Aren't you "Beatle fan Krista" on Sirius/XM? 

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krista4 said:

I knew Ram was beloved, but this is interesting.  Of course, I don't know what "the McCartney community" is and probably want to keep it that way.    Not just Paul, but I don't want to be part of any Beatles community other than the little one we have here.  

I try to be careful to say "favorite" not "best."  The former is subjective, and might be "best" if you define it that way, but "favorite" could be defined however a person wants, as Morton demonstrated as well.  I know you still won't have a "favorite," but I wanted to make the distinction.

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Raging weasel said:

Not offended but what are weasel words?

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Binky The Doormat said:

are you ####### serious Clark?

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krista4 said:

I've been out all day running errands.  Some of those errands were wine tasting.  Anyway, heard snippets of Peter Asher's show in the car, and I don't know what his theme is for the show, but he played John's "Mother" and "God" right in a row.  That's a gut punch.  Was surprised to hear those.  He also had "Crackerbox Palace," and then as I got to the garage, he played "Ballad of Frankie Crisp," which is a severely underrated All Things Must Pass track IMO.  I sat in the car until it was over.  Do other people still do that?  Sit in the garage finishing a song, even though you have it readily available on several media?

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