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ABC affiliate: FBI investigates plot to overthrow Michigan Government (1 Viewer)

For example, I've spent the last four years bitterly criticizing Trump.  Nobody should interpret my criticism as license to kidnap the guy.

 
Chaz McNulty said:
Trumps response.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1314377607379640320

Governor Whitmer of Michigan has done a terrible job. She locked down her state for everyone, except her husband’s boating activities. The Federal Government provided tremendous help to the Great People of Michigan. My Justice Department and Federal Law Enforcement announced...

...today that they foiled a dangerous plot against the Governor of Michigan. Rather than say thank you, she calls me a White Supremacist—while Biden and Democrats refuse to condemn Antifa, Anarchists, Looters and Mobs that burn down Democrat run cities...

...I do not tolerate ANY extreme violence. Defending ALL Americans, even those who oppose and attack me, is what I will always do as your President! Governor Whitmer—open up your state, open up your schools, and open up your churches!
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Seems like one of Trump's more rationale well-reasoned tweets.  

 
jon_mx said:
They are on record as hating Trump, so it is unlikely they were influenced by anything Trump said.   But it will be reported ad nauseam as a fact by the media and become the 'truth'.
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We'll see as more info comes out.  

But I presume this tempered response (both sides, bad apples etc) would have been the same if the FBI had unmasked a BLM plot to kidnap a Republican governor?  

 
massraider said:
That video is worth watching.

Trying to shoehorn these guys into right wing or left wing is not productive.

One of those guys dons a Trump hat in that video, but these guys would not welcome McConnell or Graham at a BBQ.  
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Wait, you’re telling be there are people out there who don’t like either side. Unpossible.  

 
jon_mx said:
Chaz McNulty said:
Trumps response.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1314377607379640320

Governor Whitmer of Michigan has done a terrible job. She locked down her state for everyone, except her husband’s boating activities. The Federal Government provided tremendous help to the Great People of Michigan. My Justice Department and Federal Law Enforcement announced...

...today that they foiled a dangerous plot against the Governor of Michigan. Rather than say thank you, she calls me a White Supremacist—while Biden and Democrats refuse to condemn Antifa, Anarchists, Looters and Mobs that burn down Democrat run cities...

...I do not tolerate ANY extreme violence. Defending ALL Americans, even those who oppose and attack me, is what I will always do as your President! Governor Whitmer—open up your state, open up your schools, and open up your churches!
Click to expand...
Seems like one of Trump's more rationale well-reasoned tweets.  
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The fact that this tweet is considered “rationale” and “well reasoned” shows how deep the divide is.  

 
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Wildudes said:
We'll see as more info comes out.  

But I presume this tempered response (both sides, bad apples etc) would have been the same if the FBI had unmasked a BLM plot to kidnap a Republican governor?  
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Well considering 90 percent of the violent crap going on right now is from the left, i was actually being generous to the left already.  

 
jon_mx said:
Whitmer's blaming Trump for it was reckless speculation.  For once Trump is kind of on the high road.  
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Not defending Whitmer, honestly know nothing about her.  But you saying it was “kind of the high road” does nothing but strengthen my statement.  The gap was growing prior to Trump, it’s become the Grand Canyon during his time and threatening to become Valles Marineris with this type of thinking.  
 

*just my humble opinion, not taking a shot at you Jon.  Im speaking to the “collective you” not the specific “you”.  

 
sho nuff said:
Full of lies, calling the DOJ and FBI his...thats well reasoned and rational?  Those tweets are terrible from anyone much less POTUS.
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Well, it wasn't an incoherent rant in ALL CAPS, so comparatively it was well reasoned and rational.

 
sho nuff said:
Full of lies, calling the DOJ and FBI his...thats well reasoned and rational?  Those tweets are terrible from anyone much less POTUS.
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The FBI and DOJ are both part of the executive branch which Trump is in charge of.  Just how is that a lie?  

 
dkp993 said:
Not defending Whitmer, honestly know nothing about her.  But you saying it was “kind of the high road” does nothing but strengthen my statement.  The gap was growing prior to Trump, it’s become the Grand Canyon during his time and threatening to become Valles Marineris with this type of thinking.  
 

*just my humble opinion, not taking a shot at you Jon.  Im speaking to the “collective you” not the specific “you”.  
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The canyon was always there, the right just walked on eggshells prior to Trump.  

 
Wildudes said:
link?  
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I feel like i am arguing the sky is blue, but here is a start 

https://www.axios.com/riots-cost-property-damage-276c9bcc-a455-4067-b06a-66f9db4cea9c.html

The protests that took place in 140 U.S. cities this spring were mostly peaceful, but the arson, vandalism and looting that did occur will result in at least $1 billion to $2 billion of paid insurance claims — eclipsing the record set in Los Angeles in 1992 after the acquittal of the police officers who brutalized Rodney King.

 
jon_mx said:
They are on record as hating Trump, so it is unlikely they were influenced by anything Trump said.
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Not sure who you mean by "they" here, but some of the specific ones identified as being involved in this attempt have some VERY friendly Trump messaging on their social media :shrug:  

 
The criminal complaint identified the six accused in the plot against Whitmer as Adam Fox, Ty Garbin, Kaleb Franks, Daniel Harris, Brandon Caserta, all of Michigan, and Barry Croft of Delaware. All but Croft appeared Thursday in federal court in Grand Rapids. They asked for court-appointed lawyers and were returned to jail to await detention hearings Tuesday.

Fox, who was described as one of the leaders, was living in the basement of a vacuum shop in Grand Rapids. The owner said Fox was opposed to wearing a mask during the pandemic and kept firearms and ammunition at the store.
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I dunno why, but....  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Potential Cult Member:  "Well, tell me about your leader?"
Cult Recruiter:  "Sure, first off, he lives in the basement of a vacuum shop in Grand Rapids".
Potential Cult Member:  "Really?  Wow, tell me more about this great man!"

 
jon_mx said:
The canyon was always there, the right just walked on eggshells prior to Trump.  
Click to expand...
As I said it “was growing PRIOR to Trump”, but it’s good to see you admit the right is complicit in the gaps rapid growth under Trump.

 
General Malaise said:
I dunno why, but....  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Potential Cult Member:  "Well, tell me about your leader?"
Cult Recruiter:  "Sure, first off, he lives in the basement of a vacuum shop in Grand Rapids".
Potential Cult Member:  "Really?  Wow, tell me more about this great man!"
Click to expand...
What's a vacuum shop?

 
General Malaise said:
TBH, anybody that kidnapped Donald Trump would probably just return him after half an hour or so.
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LOL..that is what people on the radio here were saying about Whitmer.  If they asked for a ransom nobody would pay it. 

I voted for Whitmer. I thought she would be different but she comes off at times like Trump with different views.

 
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General Malaise said:
I dunno why, but....  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Potential Cult Member:  "Well, tell me about your leader?"
Cult Recruiter:  "Sure, first off, he lives in the basement of a vacuum shop in Grand Rapids".
Potential Cult Member:  "Really?  Wow, tell me more about this great man!"
Click to expand...
There is definitely a gimp in a box somewhere in that same basement.  

 
massraider said:
The video in this link is amazing. 

I wish I needed a vacuum cleaner repaired, because I would ship it to Mr. Titus. 
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Me too!  Which begs the question:  I don't think I've ever even entertained the idea of getting a vacuum repaired.  I think I'm doing it wrong?

Mr. Titus getting choked up because he he cares about his customers was a bit a tear jerker for me.

 
General Malaise said:
Me too!  Which begs the question:  I don't think I've ever even entertained the idea of getting a vacuum repaired.  I think I'm doing it wrong?

Mr. Titus getting choked up because he he cares about his customers was a bit a tear jerker for me.
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Yes.

I don't feel this same level of customer commitment from my VCR guy.

 
massraider said:
Wait till you fellas meet Sheriff Leaf:

https://twitter.com/rossjonesWXYZ/status/1314581815815004160?s=19
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Seems like a reasonable fellow.

“Let’s wait and see what it really was, it’s just a charge right now. They have a right to a trial. They could have been making a citizens arrest. People are upset they were planning to murder the governor but let’s not forget a lot of people are mad at her.“ 

Was helpful of him to include the cite (NCO 764.4, maybe .5, somewhere in that vicinity.)

Let’s not jump to conclusions here, guys.

#mealteam6

 
jon_mx said:
That does not prove it caused it.  It is still reckless speculation, no matter if in your opinion it may be true.  
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If it is true, then it wouldn't be reckless speculation. Trump's words were inflammatory and while a direct cause and effect can't be proven at this time, his rhetoric encouraged something like this.  Below is a WaPo opinion piece from April:

PostEverything @PostEverything Oct 8

From the archives:

Trump’s ‘LIBERATE MICHIGAN!’ tweets incite insurrection.

That’s illegal.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/04/17/liberate-michigan-trump-constitution/

 
jon_mx said:
I feel like i am arguing the sky is blue, but here is a start 

https://www.axios.com/riots-cost-property-damage-276c9bcc-a455-4067-b06a-66f9db4cea9c.html

The protests that took place in 140 U.S. cities this spring were mostly peaceful, but the arson, vandalism and looting that did occur will result in at least $1 billion to $2 billion of paid insurance claims — eclipsing the record set in Los Angeles in 1992 after the acquittal of the police officers who brutalized Rodney King.
Click to expand...
All that does is prove they were insured so it was totally ok. 

 
squistion said:
If it is true, then it wouldn't be reckless speculation. Trump's words were inflammatory and while a direct cause and effect can't be proven at this time, his rhetoric encouraged something like this.  Below is a WaPo opinion piece from April:

PostEverything @PostEverything Oct 8

From the archives:

Trump’s ‘LIBERATE MICHIGAN!’ tweets incite insurrection.

That’s illegal.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/04/17/liberate-michigan-trump-constitution/
Click to expand...
If I speculated that you like pina coladas and getting caught in the rain, it is speculation because i really don't have proof it is true.  Even if it ends up being true, it was still speculation when i said it.  

 
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General Malaise said:
Me too!  Which begs the question:  I don't think I've ever even entertained the idea of getting a vacuum repaired.  I think I'm doing it wrong?

Mr. Titus getting choked up because he he cares about his customers was a bit a tear jerker for me.
Click to expand...
I have to get mine repaired once or twice a year. I have a wooded lot and vacuuming up all the stuff off the ground to prevent fires is pretty tough on my eureka. 

 
jon_mx said:
The protests that took place in 140 U.S. cities this spring were mostly peaceful, but the arson, vandalism and looting that did occur will result in at least $1 billion to $2 billion of paid insurance claims — eclipsing the record set in Los Angeles in 1992 after the acquittal of the police officers who brutalized Rodney King.
Click to expand...
i'm sensing a theme here

 
jon_mx said:
There is.  A  certain group which constantly over-reacts fueled by a media which lies to them. 
Click to expand...
Just to be clear...

There was a plot by a domestic terrorist group to kidnap & murder a sitting state governor.

Your take is we’re overreacting & it’s the media’s fault?

 
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