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***Official 2020 Election General*** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter hagmania
- Start date
Terpman22
Footballguy
No it would not. This is what happens when you make enemies at every level. At some point, all those enemies are going to come back to haunt you.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
The biggest problem for the Republicans in 2024 is if Trump or Don Jr. runs in the next primary. If they get put up as the nominee, then you are giving the same motivation to the Democratic party and voter turnout will again be huge (plus you would have the disadvantage of running against an incumbent). If they lose the nomination to a mainstream candidate, then you piss off 1/2 your base and get much lower turnout.
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Doug B
Footballguy
Sideshow Bob
Footballguy
I believe in his mind the crimes he may have committed are not crimes. So even if it meant eventually going to jail, he'd say he's never done anything wrong.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Redwes25
Footballguy
I really don't want us to rehash the Trump years with investigations, etc. It was an awful 4 years and I want us to move on and focus on the real issues on hand, which is basically the biggest crisis we have had as a nation since WWII with Covid. We need leadership to bring us together to deal with that issue and the things related to it (economic damange, etc.). A bunch of investigations, lawsuits, etc. against Trump is going to prevent a real ability for us to move forward.
I don't want them and don't support them. My guess is Biden understands it and will have that view as well but there are many people on the left that see blood in the water and want to go all in. That is a mistake in my mind and also something that Biden can't quite control (Cy Vance in NY is the perfect example).
I don't want them and don't support them. My guess is Biden understands it and will have that view as well but there are many people on the left that see blood in the water and want to go all in. That is a mistake in my mind and also something that Biden can't quite control (Cy Vance in NY is the perfect example).
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
A million times this. He has been given a slap on the wrist for his crimes his entire life. He has hurt an unprecedented amount of Americans dividing the country and a lack of response to the pandemic. Then there's that whole Russia thing where he fires Sessions and installs Barr because somehow the POTUS is equal to a king. No, no, no, no. This has to stop now. The position of POTUS needs to be reeled in and accountable.
Sorkin would love the story idea but hate being limited to one syllable words to make it authentic
sho nuff
Footballguy
I hope not...sure, if things come up out of other places and the legal system should investigate and punish. But I don't think POTUS or congressional Dems should be doing so. Country needs to heal.
Need to start with things like Stimulus and once we get through some of that things like Infrastructure actually getting done (things that are popular for both parties).
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
But back to the election.
Saw a Trump protestor in Arizona say that the election was rigged because he saw Trump signs everywhere so there's no way he could lose.
Saw a Trump protestor in Arizona say that the election was rigged because he saw Trump signs everywhere so there's no way he could lose.
Part of the reason Ford pardoned Nixon was to avoid the circus of an investigation and trial.
In this case, given some of the potential crimes (e.g., obstruction of justice by the President, tax fraud by the President), I think we need to air it all out publicly for the sake of promoting necessary governmental reforms. Nixon's crimes led to reforms because Nixon's team stopped gaslighting everyone after getting caught. Trump won't do that.
I'm on board with pardoning Trump after he's convicted. We do not need a former President serving a criminal sentence. Pardon him before that happens. (Any culpable people around Trump should serve sentences, as happened with Nixon.)
But if he's not going to come clean about any wrongdoing, and if there's credible evidence warranting charges, I think we need a conviction before a pardon. (If he's acquitted, a pardon is not necessary.)
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Don't Toews Me
Footballguy
My thoughts as well. I'm also guessing we're in the minority, although I'm holding out hope that we're not.
apalmer
Footballguy
My preference would be to have Biden sit him down in the Oval Office and say, "I would be willing to pardon you for national unity. But, I am not going to do it now and give you a clean slate and the ability to try and take over this country again in 2024. What I will do instead is instruct the Justice Dept. not to pursue any charges against you between now and election day, 2024. I will then pardon you on that day, if you and your family stay out of politics until then."
dgreen
Footballguy
Yes, a trial and conviction first. Because I'd like the trial televised. And I'd like Trump to defend himself. Ratings, baby!
shader
Footballguy
Trump isn’t going to prison. I’d bet money that right now he’s beginning the process of creating a new media organization and will soon concede.
He currently is likely figuring out when to concede in a way that will keep his massive support. If he concedes too early it will look like he gave up. Too late and he will begin hemorrhaging support.
Theres a path for him to leave with dignity (in his eyes), start a media empire, and focus on making money. Possibly he will convince supporters he’s running again in 2024 but that’s never happening.
He currently is likely figuring out when to concede in a way that will keep his massive support. If he concedes too early it will look like he gave up. Too late and he will begin hemorrhaging support.
Theres a path for him to leave with dignity (in his eyes), start a media empire, and focus on making money. Possibly he will convince supporters he’s running again in 2024 but that’s never happening.
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
Was it Jane Wells' interview? That guy said he thought it because of the number of signs plus rally attendance. Confirmed he had no evidence, though.She also talked to a woman who said this is a battle between God and Satan. I don't see how you change minds in cases like this.But back to the election.
Saw a Trump protestor in Arizona say that the election was rigged because he saw Trump signs everywhere so there's no way he could lose.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Blinky the Three Eyed Fish
Footballguy
No president can pardon someone for local or state charges. I am sure there are places lined up for potential chargeable offenses or civil lawsuits. Biden can't absolve Trump for all his sins. Also, do you think the GOP is suddenly going to lay off of the Hunter mess? I am not sure there is anything but bad blood and sharks in the water on both sides.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Trump doesn't need to concede to maintain his support. He can just walk away and tell his supporters that he was thrown out.
Don't Toews Me
Footballguy
How would Biden reconcile his "healing" message with a "here's a prison sentence, Donald?"
I don't know. Would make it difficult for me to believe that after a campaign on "healing," he'd turn around and do that.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
The reality is that he can do whatever he wants and maintain his support because just about the only true thing he's said in the last 4 years is that he could shoot someone on 5th avenue and not lose a vote.
lakerstan
Footballguy
I guess they underestimated the amount of cheating necessary to win a couple extra Senate seats and some state legislatures in a Census year, though?
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I don't think Biden will need to do anything. Trump's issues are going to be with the state of NY, his taxes, debts and the tons of lawsuits that he has to deal with and no pardon is going to help him with that.
There is a price you must pay when you continually disregard laws and treat the people you deal with like crap.
Kilgore Trout
Footballguy
What does a blanket pardon cover? Everything? I don't know how you give a pardon to someone who has not yet been convicted of a crime. I agree that I don't want 13 different house committees investigating Trump over the next couple of years, but if crimes were committed, Trump should have to face the music. I do think a more constructive use of congress would be to assess where Trump overstepped his power and pass laws to prevent those things from happening in the future. With so much noise this year, it seems to have gone over the public's head how much money the Trump organization has earned from the government over the past 3 plus years. There is no way he should have been allowed to use any of his properties for government purposes.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Maybe Trump gets a pardon, but Barr and all the other boot-lickers get held accountable?
National healing is extremely important after periods of intense division.
After the Civil War, the reconstruction era (albeit way too short-lived) was a time of healing, but it didn't happen until after the South had stopped fighting and admitted defeat.
After Nixon got caught, the period of healing didn't start until after he resigned in disgrace.
We're not going to have healing in this country, pardon or no pardon, as long as Trump keeps lighting fires everywhere. He needs to concede, and he needs to admit and apologize for any criminal wrongdoing (e.g., the several counts of obstruction laid out in the Mueller report). If he won't do that, there won't be healing.
After the Civil War, the reconstruction era (albeit way too short-lived) was a time of healing, but it didn't happen until after the South had stopped fighting and admitted defeat.
After Nixon got caught, the period of healing didn't start until after he resigned in disgrace.
We're not going to have healing in this country, pardon or no pardon, as long as Trump keeps lighting fires everywhere. He needs to concede, and he needs to admit and apologize for any criminal wrongdoing (e.g., the several counts of obstruction laid out in the Mueller report). If he won't do that, there won't be healing.
Biden will have nothing to do with it. The President isn't in charge of whether to bring charges. The President doesn't interfere with the Department of Justice. Trump did, but Biden won't.
I do not want to see a blanket pardon, but it has nothing to do with a victory lap or gloating. I believe that when the people place an amount of public trust in those with positions of authority, it is paramount that those authorities not abuse their power. When those people do abuse their power, the punishment must be severe. For example, cops caught abusing their authority should be punished more severely than a regular citizen guilty of the same crime. If we ignore those who abuse their authority, it effectively teaches future people in those same positions that they can abuse that same authority without repercussion.
Capella
Footballguy
I don’t know about a blanket pardon for Trump (wouldn’t help with NY anyways but just saying). He completed disregarded laws and then flouted his disregard of them for years, created so much hate and chaos — I mean he deserves it. Why should he continue to be let off the hook?
However, I do agree the county needs to move past him and just get back to some level of basic normalcy. Tough situation for sure.
However, I do agree the county needs to move past him and just get back to some level of basic normalcy. Tough situation for sure.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
The Apprentice is almost certainly the most successful business venture he ever undertook. Its the main reason he had to engage in so much tax evasion, because he truly had significant income from that business. That said, starting a media organization from scratch is a massive, costly undertaking in an extremely competitive market. I would say he could certainly create a successful show, but not an entirely new media company. He could pick his network, every one of them would do anything to host it.
dgreen
Footballguy
Right. Healing from Trump has to happen before healing from divisiveness. Maybe an analogy is that if someone is punching you in the face, the first "healing" is to stop them from punching you in the face. Once that's done, you can then move towards healing of forgiveness and grabbing a beer and watching the game together.
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fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
I think Biden can reach out to Trump supporters with inclusive messages without giving special treatment to Trump himself.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
I see that Fox has added Alaska to the "Key States" category, adding some red numbers to balance out the blue.
Kilgore Trout
Footballguy
I think this is harder to keep the thread on topic now that it seems fairly inevitable that Biden is the President-Elect and there are very few returns coming in right now.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
This is an open question. It hasn't been litigated. Ford gave Nixon a blanket pardon, but it's not clear that such a pardon would be upheld as valid if it were to be challenged.
Terpman22
Footballguy
One could argue, although we started healing, we never fully healed after these, and the same root issues that were in place (slavery/racism and greed/unhinged power hunger) still persist today because we never fully addressed them head on and did what needed to be done. Bandaids eventually fall off over time.
dgreen
Footballguy
Thanks, edited it.
NutterButter
Footballguy
Let's go North Carolina. I know you're not releasing any updates for another week, but you've got to be itching to get aboard the Biden Express. We've got one seat reserved for you when you're ready.
dgreen
Footballguy
Most people seem to think Trump will hold NC. I'm not so sure. Biden's % needed there is similar to what he needed to make comebacks in other states.
And there were many ways he could have easily won re-election. I’d bet that if he came out of his COVID diagnosis and started taking it seriously, that would have been enough.
NutterButter
Footballguy
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I don't disagree with any of this, but I just don't see any way Trump concedes, in a traditional sense. He may have some sort of pseudo-concession press conference, and he'll leave the White House, but he will never concede that the election was not rigged against him and that he simply lost. He will be a mainstay on political talk news television and the like, regurgitating the same tired lies for the remainder of his life. We as a country should move on, but I don't think we will until he fades from the public spotlight.
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