sho nuff
Footballguy
Also ignoring that Biden and Harris can't just proclaim more people on the court and it has to be done through congress...yeah, pretty much.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
👨🏻🦳👩🏾 2020 Vice Presidential Debate - October 7 - 9:00PM ET (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sinn Fein
- Start date
MAC_32
Footballguy
We as a society will never do it, but we would function so much better if we would listen to others rather than instinctively searching for an instant reaction that coincides with what we wanted to believe in the first place. This information is important, but rather than consider it a meaningful percentage of the population is actively looking for reasons to dismiss/ignore it.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
massraider
Footballguy
Social media is:
#Imspeaking
the fly
#Imspeaking
the fly
Let’s discuss. First there is “stacking” the court and there is”packing” the court.
Stacking is what Trump is doing right now. He’s not looking for an objective candidate. He is looking for someone who will overturn ACA, overturn Roe, and vote with him when he disputes the election results.
Stacking is more offensive than packing.
while I would like Biden not to pack the court, I do think it’s important for the court to look demographically like America.
and really isn’t trump packing the court right now by rushing a nominee - when 4 years ago we had to wait ubtil after the vote?
Shula-holic
Footballguy
More to do with his management of a pitching staff as a whole. Super nice guy, I imagine the players love him too, but he's done some weird stuff too. Just look at Dustin May this year.
yak651
Footballguy
I think both Pence and Harris did what they wanted to last night.
And that's good for Biden since he's ahead. Trump/Pence needed a game-changing event, and it certainly didn't happen.
And that's good for Biden since he's ahead. Trump/Pence needed a game-changing event, and it certainly didn't happen.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Another point that I haven't seen mentioned as much was her line about Trump not selecting a single black judge out of 30 lifetime appointments.
Last edited by a moderator:
Good that she put bad people in jail. The two issues I see are a) she put a lot of people in jail for minor drug offenses which a lot of people dont consider bad and b) she disportionatly put black people in jail while simultaneously clamoring for equality.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Thunderlips
Footballguy
If R's were so worried about the expansion of the Court.....why aren't they pushing legislation/Amendment to limit the number of SC Justices at 9?
If this is a serious issue to some and it's not in the Constitution.....there should be definitive steps to lock it down. That Republicans aren't doing this tells me they want the flexibility to do the same thing further down the road.
There are rules and laws.....and there are "accepted" tradition and norms. Let's not confuse the two. If Biden/Harris win in a landslide..... I don't see why adjusting the court (since it's not prohibited) wouldn't be discussed.
If this is a serious issue to some and it's not in the Constitution.....there should be definitive steps to lock it down. That Republicans aren't doing this tells me they want the flexibility to do the same thing further down the road.
There are rules and laws.....and there are "accepted" tradition and norms. Let's not confuse the two. If Biden/Harris win in a landslide..... I don't see why adjusting the court (since it's not prohibited) wouldn't be discussed.
Fair criticism. She and Biden want to decriminalize marijuana. I think that's a good first step.
What is the Trump position?
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
You seem very indignant about Harris lying. Is honesty one of the most important traits that you look for in a leader?
jm192
Footballguy
I believe people have tried.
Rubio introduced something in 2019. Collins recently introduced a bill into the house that would require a 10 year delay in legislation to change the number of seats and the new seats existing.
I have to assume Pelosi and Schiff aren't too eager to play ball on that.
jm192
Footballguy
Great point.
I thought Pence looked a little better than Harris. But not to the point that anything substantial changes.
jm192
Footballguy
I think the mansplaining arguments are ridiculous.
Pence debated the same way everyone debates at these things. People talk over the moderater. People interrupt and talk over the other candidates. Should Pence have treated her differently because she's a woman? Of course not.
It's a Vice Presidential debate. This is what happens. The people crying mansplaining were always planning to cry it the second this debate was planned. There's no way for a man to debate a woman without being accused of such.
massraider
Footballguy
jm192
Footballguy
Some, yes.
And really since mansplaining is a made up word, it’s really whatever people want it to be.
It’s 2020, so if someone says they’re offended—we have to accept the person they feel offended by in fact behaved poorly.
There was no way for Pence to show up and not be accused of “mansplaining.”
Last edited by a moderator:
Trump's favorite poll taker has been Rasmussen and they were about the only ones that predicted Trump win in 2016. President Trump has a pathway to win but it will not be a landslide if he does. On the other hand Biden has a shot at winning in a landlide. https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/519999-rasmussen-biden-leads-trump-by-12-points-nationally
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
His position makes total sense.
Candidates interrupt each other and the moderators at these debates all the time. It happens. Politics is dirty pool. I have no idea if Pence is sexist or not, but there is plenty to criticize him for without resorting to sexism when there is no evidence that his interruptions were because Kamala or the mod were women. Had the democratic V-P candidate and/or the moderator been male, I’m sure his interruptions would have been just as frequent and obnoxious.
Last edited by a moderator:
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
That is because he was on point with the talking points of the right. The "3 years trying to overturn the election", "no obstruction, no collusion", etc. This was great for Pence in keeping himself near the top for the Trump base. It probably did absolutely nothing to help Trump make up ground in the current race. (Which I think you agreed with.) Now I'm not changing my mind and voting for Trump-Pence so convincing me isn't the point, but Pence's job was to make a case that Trump deserves four more years with those that might change their mind. I think those nonsensical talking points, accusing Harris of having her "own facts", etc. was a horrible performance as far as making that case. Fair or not the way he was perceived to treat Harris and the moderator also likely turned off a segment of voters. Maybe the polls will show I'm wrong at this, but if you are correct then I'm not wrong.
Harris on the other hand had a different job to do last night. Her job was to make voters comfortable that she could step in and be president. I think she did that primarily emphasizing the working relationship she has with "Joe". How they are on the same page. She also did that by showcasing her resume, about the Senate committees she is on, the tasks she performed as Attorney General, etc. Its probably unfair as her "bar" was the one that Pence cleared four years ago. Her job wasn't as much to make a case for Biden getting four years and even whiffed a few times when Pence widely opened the door for her (eg. to VP Pence - who would be the president if Trump's win was "overturned"?) Despite this she probably still did a better job than Pence but again because her hurdle was lower - "Joe" deserves to be elected because he is not Trump.
So I think Harris helped Harris. She helped "Joe". Pence helped Pence. Don't think Pence helped Trump-Pence all that much.
So maybe they both actually did what they wanted?
gianmarco
Footballguy
All words are made up words.
If you are denying the existence of what it's trying to describe, then you are essentially telling almost half of the population on Earth that they are wrong and that it really doesn't exist.
Do you think that's a reasonable assumption being on the other side or, perhaps, is there something to it and maybe you (and others) could learn about why the term was even created and how it can affect half of the population?
It's not about being offended just to be offended. Misogyny still exists. Women still make less than equal male counterparts. And, as I posted about this article elsewhere, read below and see that it's a real issue.
Instead of using the excuse that this is how debates go or dismissing the opinions of so many women about their feelings how the debate went last night, perhaps consider that there's something to it and learn about it. It's not easy to do. It's a lot easier to think you know better and they are just complaining to complain or using a victim complex. It's a lot easier to find other examples of the same thing happening when it wasn't a woman and saying it has nothing to do with that. It's a lot harder to challenge your belief on this and say "maybe I'm wrong about it". As I already admitted, I didn't notice any of it last night while watching. But just because I didn't and just because I don't speak to women that way (or who knows, maybe I do and don't know it), doesn't make it non-existent.
From that article linked above:
Research shows that these women have a point. Several studies of differences in speech patterns between genders since the 1970s have found that men are more likely to interrupt other people — and they interrupt women the most.
A landmark Stanford University study in 1975 featured researchers listening in on conversations in coffee shops and drugstores, and counting the interruptions committed by men and women during these chats. Only one interruption in the 48 they counted was made by a woman. That’s one in 48. “Men deny equal status to women as conversational partners with respect to rights to the full utilization of their turn and support for the development of topics,” the researchers concluded.
A 1983 study on “Interruptions and Nonverbal Gender Differences” noticed that men interrupted women more when the ladies leaned away, smiled and didn’t look at the person they were speaking to. Harris, many viewers noticed, leaned in and often looked directly at Pence while she was speaking Wednesday nigh
By 2014, a George Washington University study found the overall interruption gap between men and women closing, with both genders butting in when it wasn’t their turn at similar rates. But women were still getting talked over more — by both men and women. Men interrupted 33% more when they were speaking with women, cutting women off 2.1 times during a three-minute conversation, but only talking over other men 1.8 times. The women in the study only interrupted men once, on average, during a three-minute conversation — but they interrupted other women 2.8 times.
Women also have to fight to get a word in edgewise on the highest court in the land. Researchers from the Northwestern Pritzker School of Law analyzed 15 years of oral-argument transcripts for the Supreme Court of the United States. And they found that male justices interrupted female justices about three times more often than they interrupted other men.
And it only got worse as more women joined the court. When former Justice Sandra Day O’Connor was the only woman on the bench in 1990, 35.7% of interruptions were of her. When O’Connor was joined by the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg in 2002, 45.3% of all interruptions were directed at them. And when Ginsburg, Justice Sonia Sotomayor, and Justice Elena Kagan were all on the Supreme Court in 2015, 65.9% of interruptions were directed at them.
This was also not the first time that Harris has been interrupted on the national stage. She was cut off by Sen. Richard M. Burr and the late Sen. John McCain, Republicans from North Carolina and Arizona, while questioning then–Attorney General Jeff Sessions during a 2017 Senate Intelligence Committee hearing on Russian election interference. The same senators had interrupted her the week before as she attempted to question the deputy attorney general, Rod J. Rosenstein.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
I don't really disagree. That being said should we not expect that Pence would be cognizant of how this would be perceived in the dirty pool of politics?
jm192
Footballguy
I’m not arguing with you about misogyny. I’m telling you that Pence treated Kamala Harris the same as he would have treated any other candidate. His interruptions are classic for political debates. And instead of chalking it up to debate behavior, it was misoginy?
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Gotta admit when I saw that fly my mind immediately went to Furio.
Ju got a bee on yur hed
*smack*
Missed opportunity which will haunt Ms. Harris for years.
Ju got a bee on yur hed
*smack*
Missed opportunity which will haunt Ms. Harris for years.
massraider
Footballguy
Bunch of guys can tell each other that mansplaining ain't a thing, and that a man would have received the same treatment, but that doesn't really matter to women, does it?
massraider
Footballguy
jm192
Footballguy
It shouldn’t be a consideration. Women shouldn’t be treated differently. She’s a candidate for VP. She was treated as an equal last night and people are mad that she wasn’t given more courtesy than a male candidate.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Also, this was a poll IMMEDIATELY following the debate. This wasn't after the fact with people seeing some reactions and then agreeing.
I found the debate to be pretty equal overall. I don't think there was a clear winner. If you look at the males responding, that seems like a reasonable take.
But then you see a HUGE disparity among women. Their IMMEDIATE reaction was to be turned off by Pence and how he interrupted and responded. There has to be something to that. And it's something that most men clearly didn't see.
jm192
Footballguy
I guess should we just not care then?
I support equality for women. And Harris was treated the same as Bernie Sanders or Mayor Pete would have been treated. Pence would have interrupted and spoke over them.
Being mad that she didn’t get unusual courtesy in an arena not known for courtesy is the opposite of equality.
gianmarco
Footballguy
I understand what you're telling me. And MANY women are telling you something else. Do you think they are wrong or making it up? Or is there something there you aren't seeing? See my post above this one about women's immediate reactions following the debate. There was a HUGE disparity.
Last edited by a moderator:
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
While I agree that Pence's debate tactics are probably the same for a white man, she was most certainly not treated as an equal. But even if she was this is about winning an election and to say how Pence might be perceived in treating a female candidate by potential voters should not be a consideration only makes sense in an ideal world. In the world this happens to be it seems to me that a campaign needs to care. And I'm not arguing they did not care, just that the result seemed counter productive to campaign goals.
massraider
Footballguy
You can care all you want, I am saying that it doesn't matter to women voters if people think that if she had been a man she would have received the same treatment.
One of their strategies was clearly to not let it slide when Pence interrupted. #Imspeaking becomes the hashtag on Twitter, and women start posting their support, and women start thinking about the myriad times when men were condescending and dismissive, and boom, the points have been scored.
Women have a lot of history of men not letting them speak, and the Biden camp was able to make the debate last night about that.
It was a clear plan by the Biden camp last night, and it worked. Luckily, Trump squashed all that, by calling her a monster first thing this morning.
whoknew
Footballguy
This is not a hypothetical, though, right? We have something to compare it to. He debated Tim Kaine in 2016.
I don't remember the debate but -
According to this article, Pence interrupted Kaine 40 times. While Kaine interrupted Pence 70.
Interesting that Kellyanne accused Kaine of sexism for interrupting the moderator.
gianmarco
Footballguy
yak651
Footballguy
Haven't seen any tweets from Kamala complaining about treatment. Funny thing is that the majority (not all) she abided by the rules and once the moderator reminded her time was up she stopped talking. A majority of the time when Pence was reminded his time was up he just kept talking. Law and Order group is all for following the rules, right....
Trump stalking Hillary on the stage certainly worked...for Trump and his base apparently.
Yes that is right, they had Clinton up by just 2 points which statically when it comes to polls would be considered a tossup. But most other polls the last week only had Clinton up around 4 points just days before the election. Biden "currently" has a larger lead.
Similar threads
