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Any movie that continues the story would just be a waste of time. What are they going introduce characters that we don't care about ala Godfather III. If there ever is a movie, Chase would be wise to make it either a prequel or an event that took place in the periods of time that were missing in the series. Anything else would ruin the end of the series.softball said:
Do you always need everything spelled out for you? All of those clues and that symbolism was put in there for no reason, right?
Do you not understand: What you see is what you get? All those "clues and symbolism" were put in to create conspiracy theories among film nerds. Guess you've joined the AV club.
After just reading the section on the POV camera angles, I think it's pretty obvious that Tony is dead.
Yeah, you're right. All of that stuff couldn't have possibly been put in there because it all meant something. Heaven forbid a writer force his audience to think!
Since Chase is unwilling to address the matter in a definitive manner all I can do is go by what I saw. And the last image of the series was Tony still alive. So therefore, he's alive.And Meadow sucks at parallel parking.
The last image of the series is a black screen.
And the last time we saw Tony he was alive. So I view him as still being alive. I can speculate that he might be dead but the last image I saw of Tony Soprano he was alive. That's all I can go on since Chase didn't deliver a clear ending and has subsequently refused to definitively make a statement on the matter (at least nothing that I've seen).
Did you go to the link GR gave? It's incredibly long, but I read the first page, and just doing that makes everything really obvious and clear. Tony's quite dead.
Is Adriana alive? I mean, the last time we saw her (not in a dream), she was alive, so therefore, we must assume that she is still alive, right?
You didnt see Sil aiming his gun at her on the ground and firing 3-4 shots?Cant compare that to the Tony scene
It's pretty obvious Tony is dead, once you carefully review all the details. Also, remember that Chase originally wanted the screen to cut to black and last for close to a minute I believe, but HBO made him shorten it.
I read it when it was first posted. Great analysis. But it's just speculation. If there was a definitive answer we still wouldn't be here having this discussion.
The fact is, Chase delivered an ambiguous ending. Since that's the decision he made all I can do is go by what I saw and what I saw last was Tony Soprano alive. If Chase wanted to send a different message he should have delivered a different ending in my opinion.
Why?I read it when it was first posted. Great analysis. But it's just speculation. If there was a definitive answer we still wouldn't be here having this discussion.The fact is, Chase delivered an ambiguous ending. Since that's the decision he made all I can do is go by what I saw and what I saw last was Tony Soprano alive. If Chase wanted to send a different message he should have delivered a different ending in my opinion.
Because what I see tells me more than what I can speculate. I can conjure up speculation that says Tony is dead and I can conjure up speculation which says he's alive. Since Chase didn't provide a definitive answer to the question I'm forced to rely on what I last saw. And the last image I had of Tony Soprano was him alive. I'm not saying that's right or wrong; just saying that's my response to what the ending provided.Why?I read it when it was first posted. Great analysis. But it's just speculation. If there was a definitive answer we still wouldn't be here having this discussion.
Of course she is alive. Tony told Carmella that numerous times. We never saw her die.
Huh? Getting whacked in that type of setting is commonplace. Remember the guy Silvio was eating dinner with at that restaurant who got whacked (when the blood goes on Silvio's face in slo mo). Btw, was the guy that whacked Silvio's dinner partner the same guy who was sent to whack Ralph down in Florida?
Was that at an "Italian "mobbed up" place though? The diner seemed more like a civilian place where someone would finger this guy to the law.
True. But he could have just as easily gotten whacked out on the dark street getting into his car.
Just seemed like a good italian restaurant to me. I doubt anyone would be able to finger the shooter in either case. In each instance, the shooter was wearing a baseball cap. And once someone starts opening fire in a restaurant, I doubt anyone is going to take a good long look at the guy to memorize his profile. Everyone would be in shock.As long as the shooter doesn't hang around the scene of the crime, no witness is going to be able to give a good description of the guy.
Don't forget the opening scene of the final episode where Tony is laying in bed like it's a coffin.Also, the foreshadowing of Tony's death goes all the way back to the first episode of the season when him and Bobby are fishing on the lake, and they muse whether you ever see it coming. This was a recurring theme throughout the final season. Sylvio's dinner partner's death, Bobby's death, Phil's death, and Tony's death all have something in common - none of them see it coming. Hell, Sylvio didn't even see the guy at his dinner table get whacked until his blood was sprayed all over his face.
Bobby did see it coming.There's no doubt it was set up to seem like Tony could have been shot. The question is whether or not Chase purposefully made it so it would be left open to debate, with multiple possibilities. It seems unnecessary and unlikely that they would whack Tony in such a public place.Dexter Manley said:
Yup. Not to mention there was no longer a need to kill Tony given the truce. But if Chase is saying there are different ways to view the ending then he seems to be saying the viewer is free to believe for himself or herself whether Tony's alive or dead. That was my problem with the ending at the time and though I've warmed up a bit to in the time since that's still an issue with me. I wish Chase had taken a stand instead of trying to be clever and ambiguous.
Unless Phil's underboss who made the truce with Tony had ambitions to see both Phil and Tony whacked, so he could consolidate the whole thing for himself.Also, Tony made a great many enemies... it could have been personal rather than business.
The problem with that is is that it involves civilians in the situation, that being something the Mob wouldn't want. The police would have been called. There would have been witnesses, etc. etc. The hits throughout the series have been one on one, with no or few witnesses or created so that it looks like "the random black man" did it...( the planned hit on Carmine and Junior attempted whack on Tony). Only the really desperate hits took place in public. The guy at the diner was more or less on a suicide mission compared to the previous hits that we've seen....particularly given that the circumstances involved (a tenuous peace with NYC) didn't dictate such a desperate move. In the end, I'm on your side. I think he was clipped. I just think that it was a little sloppily thought out. Unless of course the man was some person not affiliated with any mob and was just out for revenge....not that I buy that though.,Dexter Manley said:
Very possible. Again, though, that's speculation. There's nothing shown at the end of the episode which indicates anyone is considering killing Tony, much less deciding to carry such a plot out. That's creating a storyline which does not exist in the story Chase told in the finale.
So who ordered the hit? Where is it shown in the episode after the truce that someone is plotting to kill Tony?
Had they shown a plot to kill Tony, that would have completely taken away from the final scene. It would have been extremely predictable.Besides, just because there was a truce does not mean that Butchie was going to abide by it. That guy never liked Tony at all (he was first seen in the last episode of 6A), and could have easily been behind a plot to take Tony out, once his guard was down a bit.
But why would he have it done in such a public place?
Again, that's speculation. I'm not saying it's incorrect but that's what it is. And I'd say that if the ending is going to be the death of Tony Soprano (a rather important plot point in the show), then there should be something in my opinion which at least provides a hint as to why it's happening and who might be behind it. I don't need everything spelled out in big, bold letters. Honest.
But if that's going to be the ending of your show, I think there needs to be more clarity as opposed to leaving it open-ended. Just my opinion.Because that's when Tony would most likely have his guard down. When he's sitting in a public place with his family.
If we're going to speculate I'll go with the cat.
I think AJ would be next in line to take over the family, no?
and with that, I am over this ridiculous conversation. He isnt dead or alive, it's open ended so that the viewer can get what they want out of the show and to generate continued buzz for DVDs, books etc. (and so juuuuuust in case they wanna make a movie).Technically its not even the Soprano Family. It's the DiMeo Family. The actual head of the family has been in jail the entire series. First Jackie Aprile was the acting Street Boss....then it was Tony.
I don't fault the conversation. That was the intent of the ambiguous ending, after all.and with that, I am over this ridiculous conversation. He isnt dead or alive, it's open ended so that the viewer can get what they want out of the show and to generate continued buzz for DVDs, books etc. (and so juuuuuust in case they wanna make a movie).
Gerry "The Hairdo" TorcianoDexter Manley said:
Chase STILL has people arguing about it, I'm sure that was his intent. Ego or setting up a movie, either way he's getting what he wants.I don't fault the conversation. That was the intent of the ambiguous ending, after all.and with that, I am over this ridiculous conversation. He isnt dead or alive, it's open ended so that the viewer can get what they want out of the show and to generate continued buzz for DVDs, books etc. (and so juuuuuust in case they wanna make a movie).
Technically in between Jackie and Tony it was Junior.(Be it only in title)
There is something to be said about creating an ending that continues to be heavily discussed and debated. On that count, Chase succeeded. However, part of the reason why it's still being discussed is being he intentionally avoided a clear and concise ending and left it open to viewer interpretation. His comment to EW about how there "are different ways to view the ending" only serve to add more fuel to the discussion. He refused to be direct in the episode and now he's intentionally adding to the confusion with comments such as these. When it comes to Tony's fate, there shouldn't be multiple options available, there should be only one.Dead.Alive.All I wanted was for Chase to pick one and take a stand and avoid all the ambiguous BS. That he didn't is where my frustration with the finale has always resided. As a fan of the show I admire the skillful way the final scene unfolded. It really is a great scene. There's a lot going on there on the surface and in terms of subtext. It's extremely well done. But as a fan of the show I also wanted David Chase to deliver an ending that did not leave it to my interpretation as to what happened. I want to know what David Chase intended. Does he believe Tony Soprano is alive or dead? What did he mean to say with the ending? I don't think there are unfair questions to answer and it's frustrating that even now he's still being coy. All I want from him is a straight answer. The fact he refused to provide one in the episode and subsequently in interviews is annoying. I expected more from the finale and from him. So while I admire the skillful aspects of the scene and how it was delivered, I still remain unsatisfied with that being the final moment of a show I loved. Just my two cents.
Oh, I agree. But if he had done that, no one would be talking about the show any more. And they are. Cagey *******, Chase.
I suppose they are on message boards and such... but I haven't discussed this show with any of my friends in months. Have you?
