The Z Machine
Footballguy
Ok, I'll take credit for the comeback since I turned it off at the half with Atleti down a goal and a man.
I haven't seen a good view or the freeze frame (which always makes it look worse then it is), but what I have seen I say yellow. He goes for the tactical foul, yes not trying to play the ball (hence tactical), and the connection forces his foot down making it look worse.Curious what people think about the Arsenal red card. They're complaining, but the freeze frame where the ball is 8' gone and the tactical foul is accomplished with full studs on the departing player's back instep looks pretty bad. You can play the ball and get a yellow and you can take the guy out without the studs and get a yellow, but the studs are pretty forceful there and it's clearly not a play for the ball.
Curious what people think about the Arsenal red card. They're complaining, but the freeze frame where the ball is 8' gone and the tactical foul is accomplished with full studs on the departing player's back instep looks pretty bad. You can play the ball and get a yellow and you can take the guy out without the studs and get a yellow, but the studs are pretty forceful there and it's clearly not a play for the ball.
Waiting for goalzone and the replays to get a better view.Curious what people think about the Arsenal red card. They're complaining, but the freeze frame where the ball is 8' gone and the tactical foul is accomplished with full studs on the departing player's back instep looks pretty bad. You can play the ball and get a yellow and you can take the guy out without the studs and get a yellow, but the studs are pretty forceful there and it's clearly not a play for the ball.
I watched that live. It was a very clear cynical yellow, live- tripping the guy on a break. So when I saw Oliver go immediately back pocket, I thought it was a bmav Oliver blunder wet dream.
But the replay clearly shows the defender going studs down to ankle when trying to trip the guy trying to break... I would bet everything he was just trying to trip him, not hit him with studs, but got wrong time footed in the tackle and mad ethe mistake. No intent, but on replay a clear red card (per current rules). Very well done by Oliver.
Michael Oliver always gets it right.Curious what people think about the Arsenal red card. They're complaining, but the freeze frame where the ball is 8' gone and the tactical foul is accomplished with full studs on the departing player's back instep looks pretty bad. You can play the ball and get a yellow and you can take the guy out without the studs and get a yellow, but the studs are pretty forceful there and it's clearly not a play for the ball.
I watched that live. It was a very clear cynical yellow, live- tripping the guy on a break. So when I saw Oliver go immediately back pocket, I thought it was a bmav Oliver blunder wet dream.
But the replay clearly shows the defender going studs down to ankle when trying to trip the guy trying to break... I would bet everything he was just trying to trip him, not hit him with studs, but got wrong time footed in the tackle and mad ethe mistake. No intent, but on replay a clear red card (per current rules). Very well done by Oliver.
I was watching the live broadcast and they showed really clear replays of the tackle with studs coming down/across ankle to top of foot. VAR reviewed it and immediately came back with whatever the term is- dangerous play or ehatever- that kept it red.Waiting for goalzone and the replays to get a better view.Curious what people think about the Arsenal red card. They're complaining, but the freeze frame where the ball is 8' gone and the tactical foul is accomplished with full studs on the departing player's back instep looks pretty bad. You can play the ball and get a yellow and you can take the guy out without the studs and get a yellow, but the studs are pretty forceful there and it's clearly not a play for the ball.
I watched that live. It was a very clear cynical yellow, live- tripping the guy on a break. So when I saw Oliver go immediately back pocket, I thought it was a bmav Oliver blunder wet dream.
But the replay clearly shows the defender going studs down to ankle when trying to trip the guy trying to break... I would bet everything he was just trying to trip him, not hit him with studs, but got wrong time footed in the tackle and mad ethe mistake. No intent, but on replay a clear red card (per current rules). Very well done by Oliver.
Was talking to someone else who also thought it was no more than a yellow. I told them I was trying to be objective and remove biases:
-Wanting someone not named city to catch liverpool, making me pro arsenal
-Michael Oliver
You sunnavaAdams is still just 25 (for a couple weeks). If he can stay healthy I still think he ends up with a bigger club.
Just watched the replays again and yellow at most. Never a red.I was watching the live broadcast and they showed really clear replays of the tackle with studs coming down/across ankle to top of foot. VAR reviewed it and immediately came back with whatever the term is- dangerous play or ehatever- that kept it red.Waiting for goalzone and the replays to get a better view.Curious what people think about the Arsenal red card. They're complaining, but the freeze frame where the ball is 8' gone and the tactical foul is accomplished with full studs on the departing player's back instep looks pretty bad. You can play the ball and get a yellow and you can take the guy out without the studs and get a yellow, but the studs are pretty forceful there and it's clearly not a play for the ball.
I watched that live. It was a very clear cynical yellow, live- tripping the guy on a break. So when I saw Oliver go immediately back pocket, I thought it was a bmav Oliver blunder wet dream.
But the replay clearly shows the defender going studs down to ankle when trying to trip the guy trying to break... I would bet everything he was just trying to trip him, not hit him with studs, but got wrong time footed in the tackle and mad ethe mistake. No intent, but on replay a clear red card (per current rules). Very well done by Oliver.
Was talking to someone else who also thought it was no more than a yellow. I told them I was trying to be objective and remove biases:
-Wanting someone not named city to catch liverpool, making me pro arsenal
-Michael Oliver
And again- live, not zoomed in and slowmo, it looked like a textbook cynical yellow. But replays are clear red.
I have no boner for Oliver, Arsenal or anything else...and was more than ready to be outraged by what at first looked like an overreactive call.
Arsenal scored when it went to 10v10.... good for them.And amidst all this red card talk, Arsenal still managed to get the win a man down for the entire 2nd half.
Never change, BMav. Never change.Just watched the replays again and yellow at most. Never a red.I was watching the live broadcast and they showed really clear replays of the tackle with studs coming down/across ankle to top of foot. VAR reviewed it and immediately came back with whatever the term is- dangerous play or ehatever- that kept it red.Waiting for goalzone and the replays to get a better view.Curious what people think about the Arsenal red card. They're complaining, but the freeze frame where the ball is 8' gone and the tactical foul is accomplished with full studs on the departing player's back instep looks pretty bad. You can play the ball and get a yellow and you can take the guy out without the studs and get a yellow, but the studs are pretty forceful there and it's clearly not a play for the ball.
I watched that live. It was a very clear cynical yellow, live- tripping the guy on a break. So when I saw Oliver go immediately back pocket, I thought it was a bmav Oliver blunder wet dream.
But the replay clearly shows the defender going studs down to ankle when trying to trip the guy trying to break... I would bet everything he was just trying to trip him, not hit him with studs, but got wrong time footed in the tackle and mad ethe mistake. No intent, but on replay a clear red card (per current rules). Very well done by Oliver.
Was talking to someone else who also thought it was no more than a yellow. I told them I was trying to be objective and remove biases:
-Wanting someone not named city to catch liverpool, making me pro arsenal
-Michael Oliver
And again- live, not zoomed in and slowmo, it looked like a textbook cynical yellow. But replays are clear red.
I have no boner for Oliver, Arsenal or anything else...and was more than ready to be outraged by what at first looked like an overreactive call.
The Robbies on NBC agree never a red. He even calls out Oliver for a bad decision.
And the VAR refs are always afraid to call out Oliver!!!
Plus the second yellow for Joao Gomes was a worse stamp on the foot than the one which Arsenal saw red.
And just lost... They were the last undefeated team in europeJust saw that Juve have drawn 13/22 matches this season. That's hard to do.
Haven't seen that since AFC Richmond's first season in the Championship after being relegated by Tartt at City.Just saw that Juve have drawn 13/22 matches this season. That's hard to do.
I really dislike Arsenal and their incessant whining, diving, and moaning, but In real time, there is no malicious intent in that tackle - it's a cynical, professional foul that stops a break and nothing more. How Oliver sees that as a red without the benefit of replay or the still is unfathomable. Despite that, VAR cleared it and it will be cleared again when the league looks at it. VAR and the after match review care nothing about getting the call right - the sole focus is on supporting the on field decision. It's a farce of a system.*If* Oliver and the rest of the referees had some kind of governing body, all of this would be so much easier. They could provide guidance on a consistent approach to serious foul play / use of studs. Then all fouls could be reviewed by some kind of TV replay booth to check on studs / serious foul play, to enforce that consistency. Just an idea…
Well, he was back from his last injury for about 11 whole days so he was due.Calvert-Lewin injury
I mean, I don't usually believe in this stuff, but KP....wow@KarmaPolice I am sure you are a lovely guy, so it pains me to say this, but:
I can't help but think your new support and Spurs demise are causally connected...
I have no words either. Especially when part of my choosing process was trying to get a team NOT in jeopardy of relegation.I mean, I don't usually believe in this stuff, but KP....wow@KarmaPolice I am sure you are a lovely guy, so it pains me to say this, but:
I can't help but think your new support and Spurs demise are causally connected...
I really dislike Arsenal and their incessant whining, diving, and moaning, but In real time, there is no malicious intent in that tackle - it's a cynical, professional foul that stops a break and nothing more. How Oliver sees that as a red without the benefit of replay or the still is unfathomable. Despite that, VAR cleared it and it will be cleared again when the league looks at it. VAR and the after match review care nothing about getting the call right - the sole focus is on supporting the on field decision. It's a farce of a system.*If* Oliver and the rest of the referees had some kind of governing body, all of this would be so much easier. They could provide guidance on a consistent approach to serious foul play / use of studs. Then all fouls could be reviewed by some kind of TV replay booth to check on studs / serious foul play, to enforce that consistency. Just an idea…
Pompey?Has a club won a Eurpoa or FA cup and gotten relegated in the same season?
Watch this video (not you @El Floppo , but for anyone not thinking it's a red)I really dislike Arsenal and their incessant whining, diving, and moaning, but In real time, there is no malicious intent in that tackle - it's a cynical, professional foul that stops a break and nothing more. How Oliver sees that as a red without the benefit of replay or the still is unfathomable. Despite that, VAR cleared it and it will be cleared again when the league looks at it. VAR and the after match review care nothing about getting the call right - the sole focus is on supporting the on field decision. It's a farce of a system.*If* Oliver and the rest of the referees had some kind of governing body, all of this would be so much easier. They could provide guidance on a consistent approach to serious foul play / use of studs. Then all fouls could be reviewed by some kind of TV replay booth to check on studs / serious foul play, to enforce that consistency. Just an idea…
I'll start by saying I don't know what the exact letter of the law is .. so caveat emptor and all.
Watching live, It looked to me like a standard cynical yellow to stop the break.
Oliver was right there a couple feet away with a great view and didn't hesitate pulling out the red. Replays showed the guy coming down with studs on ankle and foot. VAR reviewed it very quickly and didn't overturn- dangerous play and red upheld
In my day- a foul, no yellow. Pre VAR- yellow. Now... This is what we get. If the rules say studs to ankle is a red, VAR couldn't have missed it with the clear replays...dunno what to say![]()
Bound to be more examples but this is probably the most recent and egregious oneHas a club won a Eurpoa or FA cup and gotten relegated in the same season?
Here you goWatch this video (not you @El Floppo , but for anyone not thinking it's a red)I really dislike Arsenal and their incessant whining, diving, and moaning, but In real time, there is no malicious intent in that tackle - it's a cynical, professional foul that stops a break and nothing more. How Oliver sees that as a red without the benefit of replay or the still is unfathomable. Despite that, VAR cleared it and it will be cleared again when the league looks at it. VAR and the after match review care nothing about getting the call right - the sole focus is on supporting the on field decision. It's a farce of a system.*If* Oliver and the rest of the referees had some kind of governing body, all of this would be so much easier. They could provide guidance on a consistent approach to serious foul play / use of studs. Then all fouls could be reviewed by some kind of TV replay booth to check on studs / serious foul play, to enforce that consistency. Just an idea…
I'll start by saying I don't know what the exact letter of the law is .. so caveat emptor and all.
Watching live, It looked to me like a standard cynical yellow to stop the break.
Oliver was right there a couple feet away with a great view and didn't hesitate pulling out the red. Replays showed the guy coming down with studs on ankle and foot. VAR reviewed it very quickly and didn't overturn- dangerous play and red upheld
In my day- a foul, no yellow. Pre VAR- yellow. Now... This is what we get. If the rules say studs to ankle is a red, VAR couldn't have missed it with the clear replays...dunno what to say![]()
Start at the 0:59 mark and watch at 0.25 playback speed on YouTube. You can see his studs hit the ankle and slide down. And this is the angle Oliver sees it from as he's standing there as well.
Other angles don't show this as well and it looks much more innocent.
Crazy thing is, Nottingham Forest has a +6 goal differential and is sitting in 3rd with 44 points while Spurs have a +9 GD and sitting in 15th with just over half the points (24).I have no words either. Especially when part of my choosing process was trying to get a team NOT in jeopardy of relegation.I mean, I don't usually believe in this stuff, but KP....wow@KarmaPolice I am sure you are a lovely guy, so it pains me to say this, but:
I can't help but think your new support and Spurs demise are causally connected...
Sorry, Spurs fans!!
Not sure it's going to get cleared. Will be *fascinating* to watch Ref Watch this week, and see them explain the decision (and the Yellow for Gomes, and Enciso's flying leap).I really dislike Arsenal and their incessant whining, diving, and moaning, but In real time, there is no malicious intent in that tackle - it's a cynical, professional foul that stops a break and nothing more. How Oliver sees that as a red without the benefit of replay or the still is unfathomable. Despite that, VAR cleared it and it will be cleared again when the league looks at it. VAR and the after match review care nothing about getting the call right - the sole focus is on supporting the on field decision. It's a farce of a system.*If* Oliver and the rest of the referees had some kind of governing body, all of this would be so much easier. They could provide guidance on a consistent approach to serious foul play / use of studs. Then all fouls could be reviewed by some kind of TV replay booth to check on studs / serious foul play, to enforce that consistency. Just an idea…
Such an ugly game to watch. Neither team looked good.Bet over 8 corners in the Fulham game, naturally the first half has zero corners
I think he's finding his feet in the league.Martinez
He's not called the Butcher for no reason haha. You are right, he does come in a little reckless at times, but I actually am ok with that. Sometimes you have to be to spark something. The rest of the team is so soft at times. He's finding his spot as the left sided player in the back 3.I think he's finding his feet in the league.Martinez
I've always really liked his game as a 6- reads space really well and is really good with distribution, especially setting up attacks or hitting that killer ball to set up the assist. Doesn't United need a 6?
But it feels like every single tackle teeters on yellow or worse (I've been surprised at how much he's gotten away with, tbh)- that's the part of his game that would give me pause if I was a MU fan.
United seem to be working on Patrick Dorgu from Lecce to help with a left sided wing back. Don't know much about him so hopefully he is actually a fit.Right now United is struggling with a lack of true wing backs.
I've been reminded of end of career Scholes when watching Martinez. in the good and bad ways.He's not called the Butcher for no reason haha. You are right, he does come in a little reckless at times, but I actually am ok with that. Sometimes you have to be to spark something. The rest of the team is so soft at times. He's finding his spot as the left sided player in the back 3.I think he's finding his feet in the league.Martinez
I've always really liked his game as a 6- reads space really well and is really good with distribution, especially setting up attacks or hitting that killer ball to set up the assist. Doesn't United need a 6?
But it feels like every single tackle teeters on yellow or worse (I've been surprised at how much he's gotten away with, tbh)- that's the part of his game that would give me pause if I was a MU fan.
United's formation doesn't really set up with a true or loan 6 in their 3-4-2-1, (its more of dual 8s) but Ugarte is that guy and doing well. He is showing strength and the ability to turn and pass forward. I am happy with that signing. And Collyer is starting to get some time in there as well. I actually wouldn't mind seeing Ugarte and Collyer in the middle pushing Mainoo up next to Bruno in the dual 10s.
Right now United is struggling with a lack of true wing backs. Guys who instinctually get higher up the pitch in this system and are creative going forward. Maz is solid and Dalot has been terrible but neither are creative and both's first thoughts are defend. It leaves the attack to 3-4 guys instead of 5-6...
Their other issue is lack of goals. Hojlund is struggling badly and Zirkzee likes to drop deep. Bruno and Amad are really the only ones seeing the passes and shots so there is still a lack of service to a striker. They need more creativity out of their wing-backs.
Good call. HA.I've been reminded of end of career Scholes when watching Martinez. in the good and bad ways.He's not called the Butcher for no reason haha. You are right, he does come in a little reckless at times, but I actually am ok with that. Sometimes you have to be to spark something. The rest of the team is so soft at times. He's finding his spot as the left sided player in the back 3.I think he's finding his feet in the league.Martinez
I've always really liked his game as a 6- reads space really well and is really good with distribution, especially setting up attacks or hitting that killer ball to set up the assist. Doesn't United need a 6?
But it feels like every single tackle teeters on yellow or worse (I've been surprised at how much he's gotten away with, tbh)- that's the part of his game that would give me pause if I was a MU fan.
United's formation doesn't really set up with a true or loan 6 in their 3-4-2-1, (its more of dual 8s) but Ugarte is that guy and doing well. He is showing strength and the ability to turn and pass forward. I am happy with that signing. And Collyer is starting to get some time in there as well. I actually wouldn't mind seeing Ugarte and Collyer in the middle pushing Mainoo up next to Bruno in the dual 10s.
Right now United is struggling with a lack of true wing backs. Guys who instinctually get higher up the pitch in this system and are creative going forward. Maz is solid and Dalot has been terrible but neither are creative and both's first thoughts are defend. It leaves the attack to 3-4 guys instead of 5-6...
Their other issue is lack of goals. Hojlund is struggling badly and Zirkzee likes to drop deep. Bruno and Amad are really the only ones seeing the passes and shots so there is still a lack of service to a striker. They need more creativity out of their wing-backs.
I saw that yesterday. Rashford is done at United for sure. There is no coming back from that.lol... @B Maverick ....and this:
Manchester United boss Ruben Amorim has suggested he'd rather give a place on the bench to his 63-year-old goalkeeping coach instead of Marcus Rashford because of a perceived lack of effort.
I know I've posted the opposite stance... But aside from coming down funny with the tackle, it was a textbook yellow, not red. Very glad he's not missing time.![]()
Myles Lewis-Skelly wrongful dismissal claim upheld, three-match suspension removed for Arsenal youngster after red card
The FA has confirmed that an independent regulatory group upheld a wrongful dismissal claim from Arsenal regarding a red card for Myles Lewis-Skelly from the game against Wolverhampton Wanderers. As a result, Lewis-Skelly's three-game suspension has been overturned and he will be available for selection.
Never a red card.