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⚽ Soccer Match-day Thread (2 Viewers)

Curious what people think about the Arsenal red card. They're complaining, but the freeze frame where the ball is 8' gone and the tactical foul is accomplished with full studs on the departing player's back instep looks pretty bad. You can play the ball and get a yellow and you can take the guy out without the studs and get a yellow, but the studs are pretty forceful there and it's clearly not a play for the ball.
 
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Curious what people think about the Arsenal red card. They're complaining, but the freeze frame where the ball is 8' gone and the tactical foul is accomplished with full studs on the departing player's back instep looks pretty bad. You can play the ball and get a yellow and you can take the guy out without the studs and get a yellow, but the studs are pretty forceful there and it's clearly not a play for the ball.
I haven't seen a good view or the freeze frame (which always makes it look worse then it is), but what I have seen I say yellow. He goes for the tactical foul, yes not trying to play the ball (hence tactical), and the connection forces his foot down making it look worse.


oh and of course its Michael Oliver.


Not a hill I'd die on arguing against a red though.
 
Curious what people think about the Arsenal red card. They're complaining, but the freeze frame where the ball is 8' gone and the tactical foul is accomplished with full studs on the departing player's back instep looks pretty bad. You can play the ball and get a yellow and you can take the guy out without the studs and get a yellow, but the studs are pretty forceful there and it's clearly not a play for the ball.

I watched that live. It was a very clear cynical yellow, live- tripping the guy on a break. So when I saw Oliver go immediately back pocket, I thought it was a bmav Oliver blunder wet dream.

But the replay clearly shows the defender going studs down to ankle when trying to trip the guy trying to break... I would bet everything he was just trying to trip him, not hit him with studs, but got wrong time footed in the tackle and mad ethe mistake. No intent, but on replay a clear red card (per current rules). Very well done by Oliver.
 
And of course the one tile Liverpool are on Peacock, it's a hohum laugher vs Ipswich. The game I wanted to see was Forest vs burnmouth, which of course was unavailable.
 
Curious what people think about the Arsenal red card. They're complaining, but the freeze frame where the ball is 8' gone and the tactical foul is accomplished with full studs on the departing player's back instep looks pretty bad. You can play the ball and get a yellow and you can take the guy out without the studs and get a yellow, but the studs are pretty forceful there and it's clearly not a play for the ball.

I watched that live. It was a very clear cynical yellow, live- tripping the guy on a break. So when I saw Oliver go immediately back pocket, I thought it was a bmav Oliver blunder wet dream.

But the replay clearly shows the defender going studs down to ankle when trying to trip the guy trying to break... I would bet everything he was just trying to trip him, not hit him with studs, but got wrong time footed in the tackle and mad ethe mistake. No intent, but on replay a clear red card (per current rules). Very well done by Oliver.
Waiting for goalzone and the replays to get a better view.

Was talking to someone else who also thought it was no more than a yellow. I told them I was trying to be objective and remove biases:
-Wanting someone not named city to catch liverpool, making me pro arsenal
-Michael Oliver
 
Curious what people think about the Arsenal red card. They're complaining, but the freeze frame where the ball is 8' gone and the tactical foul is accomplished with full studs on the departing player's back instep looks pretty bad. You can play the ball and get a yellow and you can take the guy out without the studs and get a yellow, but the studs are pretty forceful there and it's clearly not a play for the ball.

I watched that live. It was a very clear cynical yellow, live- tripping the guy on a break. So when I saw Oliver go immediately back pocket, I thought it was a bmav Oliver blunder wet dream.

But the replay clearly shows the defender going studs down to ankle when trying to trip the guy trying to break... I would bet everything he was just trying to trip him, not hit him with studs, but got wrong time footed in the tackle and mad ethe mistake. No intent, but on replay a clear red card (per current rules). Very well done by Oliver.
Michael Oliver always gets it right.
 
Curious what people think about the Arsenal red card. They're complaining, but the freeze frame where the ball is 8' gone and the tactical foul is accomplished with full studs on the departing player's back instep looks pretty bad. You can play the ball and get a yellow and you can take the guy out without the studs and get a yellow, but the studs are pretty forceful there and it's clearly not a play for the ball.

I watched that live. It was a very clear cynical yellow, live- tripping the guy on a break. So when I saw Oliver go immediately back pocket, I thought it was a bmav Oliver blunder wet dream.

But the replay clearly shows the defender going studs down to ankle when trying to trip the guy trying to break... I would bet everything he was just trying to trip him, not hit him with studs, but got wrong time footed in the tackle and mad ethe mistake. No intent, but on replay a clear red card (per current rules). Very well done by Oliver.
Waiting for goalzone and the replays to get a better view.

Was talking to someone else who also thought it was no more than a yellow. I told them I was trying to be objective and remove biases:
-Wanting someone not named city to catch liverpool, making me pro arsenal
-Michael Oliver
I was watching the live broadcast and they showed really clear replays of the tackle with studs coming down/across ankle to top of foot. VAR reviewed it and immediately came back with whatever the term is- dangerous play or ehatever- that kept it red.

And again- live, not zoomed in and slowmo, it looked like a textbook cynical yellow. But replays are clear red.

I have no boner for Oliver, Arsenal or anything else...and was more than ready to be outraged by what at first looked like an overreactive call.
 
Curious what people think about the Arsenal red card. They're complaining, but the freeze frame where the ball is 8' gone and the tactical foul is accomplished with full studs on the departing player's back instep looks pretty bad. You can play the ball and get a yellow and you can take the guy out without the studs and get a yellow, but the studs are pretty forceful there and it's clearly not a play for the ball.

I watched that live. It was a very clear cynical yellow, live- tripping the guy on a break. So when I saw Oliver go immediately back pocket, I thought it was a bmav Oliver blunder wet dream.

But the replay clearly shows the defender going studs down to ankle when trying to trip the guy trying to break... I would bet everything he was just trying to trip him, not hit him with studs, but got wrong time footed in the tackle and mad ethe mistake. No intent, but on replay a clear red card (per current rules). Very well done by Oliver.
Waiting for goalzone and the replays to get a better view.

Was talking to someone else who also thought it was no more than a yellow. I told them I was trying to be objective and remove biases:
-Wanting someone not named city to catch liverpool, making me pro arsenal
-Michael Oliver
I was watching the live broadcast and they showed really clear replays of the tackle with studs coming down/across ankle to top of foot. VAR reviewed it and immediately came back with whatever the term is- dangerous play or ehatever- that kept it red.

And again- live, not zoomed in and slowmo, it looked like a textbook cynical yellow. But replays are clear red.

I have no boner for Oliver, Arsenal or anything else...and was more than ready to be outraged by what at first looked like an overreactive call.
Just watched the replays again and yellow at most. Never a red.
The Robbies on NBC agree never a red. He even calls out Oliver for a bad decision. :lmao:
And the VAR refs are always afraid to call out Oliver!!!

Plus the second yellow for Joao Gomes was a worse stamp on the foot than the one which Arsenal saw red.
 
Curious what people think about the Arsenal red card. They're complaining, but the freeze frame where the ball is 8' gone and the tactical foul is accomplished with full studs on the departing player's back instep looks pretty bad. You can play the ball and get a yellow and you can take the guy out without the studs and get a yellow, but the studs are pretty forceful there and it's clearly not a play for the ball.

I watched that live. It was a very clear cynical yellow, live- tripping the guy on a break. So when I saw Oliver go immediately back pocket, I thought it was a bmav Oliver blunder wet dream.

But the replay clearly shows the defender going studs down to ankle when trying to trip the guy trying to break... I would bet everything he was just trying to trip him, not hit him with studs, but got wrong time footed in the tackle and mad ethe mistake. No intent, but on replay a clear red card (per current rules). Very well done by Oliver.
Waiting for goalzone and the replays to get a better view.

Was talking to someone else who also thought it was no more than a yellow. I told them I was trying to be objective and remove biases:
-Wanting someone not named city to catch liverpool, making me pro arsenal
-Michael Oliver
I was watching the live broadcast and they showed really clear replays of the tackle with studs coming down/across ankle to top of foot. VAR reviewed it and immediately came back with whatever the term is- dangerous play or ehatever- that kept it red.

And again- live, not zoomed in and slowmo, it looked like a textbook cynical yellow. But replays are clear red.

I have no boner for Oliver, Arsenal or anything else...and was more than ready to be outraged by what at first looked like an overreactive call.
Just watched the replays again and yellow at most. Never a red.
The Robbies on NBC agree never a red. He even calls out Oliver for a bad decision. :lmao:
And the VAR refs are always afraid to call out Oliver!!!

Plus the second yellow for Joao Gomes was a worse stamp on the foot than the one which Arsenal saw red.
Never change, BMav. Never change.
 
*If* Oliver and the rest of the referees had some kind of governing body, all of this would be so much easier. They could provide guidance on a consistent approach to serious foul play / use of studs. Then all fouls could be reviewed by some kind of TV replay booth to check on studs / serious foul play, to enforce that consistency. Just an idea…
 
Another big win by Everton. And with the Wolves and Ipswich both losing, the Blues get some much needed breathing room! Praying that the Calvert-Lewin injury is not a long-term issue.
 
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*If* Oliver and the rest of the referees had some kind of governing body, all of this would be so much easier. They could provide guidance on a consistent approach to serious foul play / use of studs. Then all fouls could be reviewed by some kind of TV replay booth to check on studs / serious foul play, to enforce that consistency. Just an idea…
I really dislike Arsenal and their incessant whining, diving, and moaning, but In real time, there is no malicious intent in that tackle - it's a cynical, professional foul that stops a break and nothing more. How Oliver sees that as a red without the benefit of replay or the still is unfathomable. Despite that, VAR cleared it and it will be cleared again when the league looks at it. VAR and the after match review care nothing about getting the call right - the sole focus is on supporting the on field decision. It's a farce of a system.
 
@KarmaPolice I am sure you are a lovely guy, so it pains me to say this, but:



I can't help but think your new support and Spurs demise are causally connected...
I mean, I don't usually believe in this stuff, but KP....wow
I have no words either. Especially when part of my choosing process was trying to get a team NOT in jeopardy of relegation.

Sorry, Spurs fans!!
 
*If* Oliver and the rest of the referees had some kind of governing body, all of this would be so much easier. They could provide guidance on a consistent approach to serious foul play / use of studs. Then all fouls could be reviewed by some kind of TV replay booth to check on studs / serious foul play, to enforce that consistency. Just an idea…
I really dislike Arsenal and their incessant whining, diving, and moaning, but In real time, there is no malicious intent in that tackle - it's a cynical, professional foul that stops a break and nothing more. How Oliver sees that as a red without the benefit of replay or the still is unfathomable. Despite that, VAR cleared it and it will be cleared again when the league looks at it. VAR and the after match review care nothing about getting the call right - the sole focus is on supporting the on field decision. It's a farce of a system.

I'll start by saying I don't know what the exact letter of the law is .. so caveat emptor and all.

Watching live, It looked to me like a standard cynical yellow to stop the break.

Oliver was right there a couple feet away with a great view and didn't hesitate pulling out the red. Replays showed the guy coming down with studs on ankle and foot. VAR reviewed it very quickly and didn't overturn- dangerous play and red upheld

In my day- a foul, no yellow. Pre VAR- yellow. Now... This is what we get. If the rules say studs to ankle is a red, VAR couldn't have missed it with the clear replays...dunno what to say :shrug:
 
*If* Oliver and the rest of the referees had some kind of governing body, all of this would be so much easier. They could provide guidance on a consistent approach to serious foul play / use of studs. Then all fouls could be reviewed by some kind of TV replay booth to check on studs / serious foul play, to enforce that consistency. Just an idea…
I really dislike Arsenal and their incessant whining, diving, and moaning, but In real time, there is no malicious intent in that tackle - it's a cynical, professional foul that stops a break and nothing more. How Oliver sees that as a red without the benefit of replay or the still is unfathomable. Despite that, VAR cleared it and it will be cleared again when the league looks at it. VAR and the after match review care nothing about getting the call right - the sole focus is on supporting the on field decision. It's a farce of a system.

I'll start by saying I don't know what the exact letter of the law is .. so caveat emptor and all.

Watching live, It looked to me like a standard cynical yellow to stop the break.

Oliver was right there a couple feet away with a great view and didn't hesitate pulling out the red. Replays showed the guy coming down with studs on ankle and foot. VAR reviewed it very quickly and didn't overturn- dangerous play and red upheld

In my day- a foul, no yellow. Pre VAR- yellow. Now... This is what we get. If the rules say studs to ankle is a red, VAR couldn't have missed it with the clear replays...dunno what to say :shrug:
Watch this video (not you @El Floppo , but for anyone not thinking it's a red)

Start at the 0:59 mark and watch at 0.25 playback speed on YouTube. You can see his studs hit the ankle and slide down. And this is the angle Oliver sees it from as he's standing there as well.

Other angles don't show this as well and it looks much more innocent.
 
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*If* Oliver and the rest of the referees had some kind of governing body, all of this would be so much easier. They could provide guidance on a consistent approach to serious foul play / use of studs. Then all fouls could be reviewed by some kind of TV replay booth to check on studs / serious foul play, to enforce that consistency. Just an idea…
I really dislike Arsenal and their incessant whining, diving, and moaning, but In real time, there is no malicious intent in that tackle - it's a cynical, professional foul that stops a break and nothing more. How Oliver sees that as a red without the benefit of replay or the still is unfathomable. Despite that, VAR cleared it and it will be cleared again when the league looks at it. VAR and the after match review care nothing about getting the call right - the sole focus is on supporting the on field decision. It's a farce of a system.

I'll start by saying I don't know what the exact letter of the law is .. so caveat emptor and all.

Watching live, It looked to me like a standard cynical yellow to stop the break.

Oliver was right there a couple feet away with a great view and didn't hesitate pulling out the red. Replays showed the guy coming down with studs on ankle and foot. VAR reviewed it very quickly and didn't overturn- dangerous play and red upheld

In my day- a foul, no yellow. Pre VAR- yellow. Now... This is what we get. If the rules say studs to ankle is a red, VAR couldn't have missed it with the clear replays...dunno what to say :shrug:
Watch this video (not you @El Floppo , but for anyone not thinking it's a red)

Start at the 0:59 mark and watch at 0.25 playback speed on YouTube. You can see his studs hit the ankle and slide down. And this is the angle Oliver sees it from as he's standing there as well.

Other angles don't show this as well and it looks much more innocent.
Here you go
 
@KarmaPolice I am sure you are a lovely guy, so it pains me to say this, but:



I can't help but think your new support and Spurs demise are causally connected...
I mean, I don't usually believe in this stuff, but KP....wow
I have no words either. Especially when part of my choosing process was trying to get a team NOT in jeopardy of relegation.

Sorry, Spurs fans!!
Crazy thing is, Nottingham Forest has a +6 goal differential and is sitting in 3rd with 44 points while Spurs have a +9 GD and sitting in 15th with just over half the points (24).
 
*If* Oliver and the rest of the referees had some kind of governing body, all of this would be so much easier. They could provide guidance on a consistent approach to serious foul play / use of studs. Then all fouls could be reviewed by some kind of TV replay booth to check on studs / serious foul play, to enforce that consistency. Just an idea…
I really dislike Arsenal and their incessant whining, diving, and moaning, but In real time, there is no malicious intent in that tackle - it's a cynical, professional foul that stops a break and nothing more. How Oliver sees that as a red without the benefit of replay or the still is unfathomable. Despite that, VAR cleared it and it will be cleared again when the league looks at it. VAR and the after match review care nothing about getting the call right - the sole focus is on supporting the on field decision. It's a farce of a system.
Not sure it's going to get cleared. Will be *fascinating* to watch Ref Watch this week, and see them explain the decision (and the Yellow for Gomes, and Enciso's flying leap).
 
Neglected to mention yesterday, but a late postponement of the game I was intending to go to yesterday finally allowed me to complete the tour of every ground in Manchester in the top 10 divisions. Not my home county per se (live just over the border) but where the vast majority of clubs local to me are. That's all the low lying fruit of our league system cleared, by the end of the season I guess I won't have anything within a 25 mile radius left to visit (already cleared 20)
 
Bet over 8 corners in the Fulham game, naturally the first half has zero corners
Such an ugly game to watch. Neither team looked good.

Dalot and Hojlund were terrible for United.
Garnacho does the same thing every game. So highly predictable.

Ugarte was good. Martinez and the defense solid.

Escaped with the win.
 
I think he's finding his feet in the league.

I've always really liked his game as a 6- reads space really well and is really good with distribution, especially setting up attacks or hitting that killer ball to set up the assist. Doesn't United need a 6?

But it feels like every single tackle teeters on yellow or worse (I've been surprised at how much he's gotten away with, tbh)- that's the part of his game that would give me pause if I was a MU fan.
 
I think he's finding his feet in the league.

I've always really liked his game as a 6- reads space really well and is really good with distribution, especially setting up attacks or hitting that killer ball to set up the assist. Doesn't United need a 6?

But it feels like every single tackle teeters on yellow or worse (I've been surprised at how much he's gotten away with, tbh)- that's the part of his game that would give me pause if I was a MU fan.
He's not called the Butcher for no reason haha. You are right, he does come in a little reckless at times, but I actually am ok with that. Sometimes you have to be to spark something. The rest of the team is so soft at times. He's finding his spot as the left sided player in the back 3.

United's formation doesn't really set up with a true or loan 6 in their 3-4-2-1, (its more of dual 8s) but Ugarte is that guy and doing well. He is showing strength and the ability to turn and pass forward. I am happy with that signing. And Collyer is starting to get some time in there as well. I actually wouldn't mind seeing Ugarte and Collyer in the middle pushing Mainoo up next to Bruno in the dual 10s.

Right now United is struggling with a lack of true wing backs. Guys who instinctually get higher up the pitch in this system and are creative going forward. Maz is solid and Dalot has been terrible but neither are creative and both's first thoughts are defend. It leaves the attack to 3-4 guys instead of 5-6...

Their other issue is lack of goals. Hojlund is struggling badly and Zirkzee likes to drop deep. Bruno and Amad are really the only ones seeing the passes and shots so there is still a lack of service to a striker. They need more creativity out of their wing-backs.
 
I think he's finding his feet in the league.

I've always really liked his game as a 6- reads space really well and is really good with distribution, especially setting up attacks or hitting that killer ball to set up the assist. Doesn't United need a 6?

But it feels like every single tackle teeters on yellow or worse (I've been surprised at how much he's gotten away with, tbh)- that's the part of his game that would give me pause if I was a MU fan.
He's not called the Butcher for no reason haha. You are right, he does come in a little reckless at times, but I actually am ok with that. Sometimes you have to be to spark something. The rest of the team is so soft at times. He's finding his spot as the left sided player in the back 3.

United's formation doesn't really set up with a true or loan 6 in their 3-4-2-1, (its more of dual 8s) but Ugarte is that guy and doing well. He is showing strength and the ability to turn and pass forward. I am happy with that signing. And Collyer is starting to get some time in there as well. I actually wouldn't mind seeing Ugarte and Collyer in the middle pushing Mainoo up next to Bruno in the dual 10s.

Right now United is struggling with a lack of true wing backs. Guys who instinctually get higher up the pitch in this system and are creative going forward. Maz is solid and Dalot has been terrible but neither are creative and both's first thoughts are defend. It leaves the attack to 3-4 guys instead of 5-6...

Their other issue is lack of goals. Hojlund is struggling badly and Zirkzee likes to drop deep. Bruno and Amad are really the only ones seeing the passes and shots so there is still a lack of service to a striker. They need more creativity out of their wing-backs.
I've been reminded of end of career Scholes when watching Martinez. in the good and bad ways.
 
lol... @B Maverick ....and this:

Manchester United boss Ruben Amorim has suggested he'd rather give a place on the bench to his 63-year-old goalkeeping coach instead of Marcus Rashford because of a perceived lack of effort.
 
I think he's finding his feet in the league.

I've always really liked his game as a 6- reads space really well and is really good with distribution, especially setting up attacks or hitting that killer ball to set up the assist. Doesn't United need a 6?

But it feels like every single tackle teeters on yellow or worse (I've been surprised at how much he's gotten away with, tbh)- that's the part of his game that would give me pause if I was a MU fan.
He's not called the Butcher for no reason haha. You are right, he does come in a little reckless at times, but I actually am ok with that. Sometimes you have to be to spark something. The rest of the team is so soft at times. He's finding his spot as the left sided player in the back 3.

United's formation doesn't really set up with a true or loan 6 in their 3-4-2-1, (its more of dual 8s) but Ugarte is that guy and doing well. He is showing strength and the ability to turn and pass forward. I am happy with that signing. And Collyer is starting to get some time in there as well. I actually wouldn't mind seeing Ugarte and Collyer in the middle pushing Mainoo up next to Bruno in the dual 10s.

Right now United is struggling with a lack of true wing backs. Guys who instinctually get higher up the pitch in this system and are creative going forward. Maz is solid and Dalot has been terrible but neither are creative and both's first thoughts are defend. It leaves the attack to 3-4 guys instead of 5-6...

Their other issue is lack of goals. Hojlund is struggling badly and Zirkzee likes to drop deep. Bruno and Amad are really the only ones seeing the passes and shots so there is still a lack of service to a striker. They need more creativity out of their wing-backs.
I've been reminded of end of career Scholes when watching Martinez. in the good and bad ways.
Good call. HA.
lol... @B Maverick ....and this:

Manchester United boss Ruben Amorim has suggested he'd rather give a place on the bench to his 63-year-old goalkeeping coach instead of Marcus Rashford because of a perceived lack of effort.
I saw that yesterday. Rashford is done at United for sure. There is no coming back from that.

Sadly something has gone wrong with Rashford and he doesn't look like he enjoys the game anymore. His effort on the pitch has been lacking during games for awhile. And I know he's been a target off the field since his work to help kids with lunches and then missing the PK for England. He's been overly criticized and I wouldn't blame him for being crushed under its weight.
For his own good, and his career, he should probably move on and get out of England.
 
:lmao: :headbang:

Myles Lewis-Skelly wrongful dismissal claim upheld, three-match suspension removed for Arsenal youngster after red card

The FA has confirmed that an independent regulatory group upheld a wrongful dismissal claim from Arsenal regarding a red card for Myles Lewis-Skelly from the game against Wolverhampton Wanderers. As a result, Lewis-Skelly's three-game suspension has been overturned and he will be available for selection.


Never a red card.
I know I've posted the opposite stance... But aside from coming down funny with the tackle, it was a textbook yellow, not red. Very glad he's not missing time.

Always a red.
 

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