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✍ Knowshon Moreno to season ending IR. (1 Viewer)

purestrength said:
Broncos will be sorry they let Knowshon go.
I agree.
Depends on how much money Miami gave him, but if it's a cheap deal, I think it's likely they regret it also. Ball is probably a better runner, but the Broncos will miss Moreno as a blocker and a WR.
Point taken. I just think since we know no RB is breaking the bank, we are almost certainly talking aboout a 1-2 M difference. Hard to justify not paying a million for what he meant to Peyton and how much that just worked for them. Especially since it was a one year deal Moreno signed for.

 
I think Moreno has a decent year in Miami. He'll keep Tannehil upright and give him a nice outlet option. Probably a better real life acquisition than Fantasy but I think he kicks Miller and Thomas to the curb.

We'll see though.

 
I think Moreno has a decent year in Miami. He'll keep Tannehil upright and give him a nice outlet option. Probably a better real life acquisition than Fantasy but I think he kicks Miller and Thomas to the curb.

We'll see though.
Great point! Moreno hepls lessen those o-line woes if nothing else, in a big way. And you're right. This isn't automatically the M. Ball show.

 
purestrength said:
Broncos will be sorry they let Knowshon go.
I agree.
Whatever will they do without the almighty Knowshon Moreno?
Hope Ball doesn't fumble / whiff on a block...? This sounds stupid but I think the Broncos draft a Running Back. Don't think they're 100% sold on Ball.
So confident is Elway in Ball that he is unlikely to re-sign last season's starter, Knowshon Moreno, even at a reduced rate. Moreno has generated little interest as a free agent despite generating more than 1,000 yards rushing, more than 500 yards receiving and scoring 13 touchdowns for the Broncos last season.

Follow us: @Denverpost on Twitter | Denverpost on FacebookMike Klis: mklis@denverpost.com or twitter.com/mikeklis

 
purestrength said:
Broncos will be sorry they let Knowshon go.
I agree.
Whatever will they do without the almighty Knowshon Moreno?
Hope Ball doesn't fumble / whiff on a block...? This sounds stupid but I think the Broncos draft a Running Back. Don't think they're 100% sold on Ball.
This draft is deep enough at RB that they can draft one in the 4th or later who will be just as effective as Moreno.

 
I took a gamble on Ball in both my Dynasty leagues.

It just paid off.

 
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purestrength said:
Broncos will be sorry they let Knowshon go.
I agree.
Whatever will they do without the almighty Knowshon Moreno?
Hope Ball doesn't fumble / whiff on a block...? This sounds stupid but I think the Broncos draft a Running Back. Don't think they're 100% sold on Ball.
This draft is deep enough at RB that they can draft one in the 4th or later who will be just as effective as Moreno.
yes and no. The draft is deep but pass protection for a rb is the HARDEST thing for a rookie to come in and do and do well. It often keeps great talents shackled for a while. That guy may be out there but the Broncos would have to be really good/lucky to pluck one late.

 
So, what is his value now in ppr leagues?

I don't see his value as the traditional RB racking up points on the ground, but it seems like he is probably going be money on the screens out of the backfield if Tannehill can improve his game going forward.

I think the absolute ceiling for him and Gerhart would be a 2010 Peyton Hillis type of season...1,100 yds, 11 TDs on the ground and 50+ catches for around 450-500 yds and a TD or two....knowing full well that he could flop or the production could only last a year or two.

So, how much is another short-term potential top 10 RB season worth these days?

 
Good luck keeping Peyton upright, Elway!
I didn't know Moreno was such a great blocker? Looks like toothpick legs to me.
Best I could find on a two second google search? Point is that blocking is Moreno's biggest strength, and probably the main reason he was on the field so much last year. It's not like Denver has ever been thrilled by the guy with the ball in his hands.

 
The Dolphins entire team rushing stats from last year:

Total Yards: 1,440 (26th)

YPC: 4.1 (T-17th)

YPG: 90.0 (26th)

TDs: 8 (27th)

1st Downs: 61 (32nd)

1st Down %: 17.5 (31st)

 
Moreno leaves a record setting, historic offense for one that was in the bottom half of the league last year, and has huge question marks centering around the offensive line?

Even as the lead back in the Dolphins RBBC situation, this is how I am feeling about Moreno's fantasy value:

:X
good posting . . .

 
I get that Den not pursuing Moreno is a vote of confidence for Bell, but it could also be a sign of Elway's hubris... and if Bell does whiff a couple blocks or puts the rock on the ground, then what does Den do? Trade for a vet? pick up a player off the street?

This will be very interesting to follow...

 
The Dolphins entire team rushing stats from last year:

Total Yards: 1,440 (26th)

YPC: 4.1 (T-17th)

YPG: 90.0 (26th)

TDs: 8 (27th)

1st Downs: 61 (32nd)

1st Down %: 17.5 (31st)
It's even uglier when you consider that 20% of the yardage and 25% of the TDs came from Tannehill, Charles Clay, and Mike Wallace. The RBs only accounted for 1156 and 6. Total. :X

 
The reason Moreno leaving is a potential issue is that Denver is all in to win it this year...if their window was bigger than no big deal...yet, for a team that is going for it and is spending money pretty aggressively this offseason having a reliable RB who is very versatile and can help Manning stay upright might not be the place to start saving a few dimes (I am assuming he did not cost much)...

 
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Gut call is that he'll be a mediocre RB3 ala Mendenhall 2013. His YPC should sink like a stone outside the friendly Denver confines. Miller is nothing special, but may be a good enough runner to turn this into a committee. I think you'll have to hope that NoShow compiles enough catches to pad his weekly numbers to the point of respectability. He's not a dynamic runner, this isn't a dynamic offense, and he might not even be the outright starter.

 
The reason Moreno leaving is a potential issue is that Denver is all in to win it this year...if their window was bigger than no big deal...yet, for a team that is going for it and is spending money pretty aggressively this offseason having a reliable RB who is very versatile and can help Manning stay upright might not be the place to start saving a few dimes (I am assuming he did not cost much)...
If they can't beat a good defense in the playoffs, they won't win the super bowl. So they want a rb that they think can run better and make the offense more balanced. Moreno was always going to be the fall guy for the offense stinking in the super bowl, right or wrong.

 
Miami seems like a good landing spot. RB2 territory for 2014.
I honestly wouldn't want to rely on him at all going forward. The only reason he had value was when the QB was the focal point. In Miami I'm wondering if he is worth rostering in a redraft.

 
Moreno is thr reason the Broncos offense sucked in the Super Bowl? I get hating on Moreno, but that's ridiculous.
I think the logic is, the Broncos want to be more balanced on offense, and while Moreno was by far the best Broncos RB when it came to pass protection and catching the ball, having a RB like him who wasn't overly effective strictly as a runner didn't help them at all against a great defense like Seattle's, so if you are gonna run it a bit more, especially in playoff games, it helps to have a more productive runner. Moreno's effectiveness catching the ball and protecting Manning doesn't help them if he is not running the ball worth a darn in those games. I am guessing that is the line of thinking.

Having said all of that, I still wish the Broncos would have kept him for cheap, but we'll see what happens.

 
Knowshon Moreno - RB - Dolphins
New Dolphins OC Bill Lazor has a run-heavy background dating back to his 2004-2007 run as an offensive assistant on Joe Gibbs' staff.
Gibbs' offenses with Lazor on staff finished 12th, fourth, eighth, and fifth in the NFL in rushing attempts. After stints in Seattle and at the University of Virginia, Lazor worked on Chip Kelly's Eagles staff last year, and Philly ranked fourth in rushing attempts. Lazor's offense figures to differ dramatically from ex-Fins OC Mike Sherman's pass-centric, sack-prone "attack." Read more on every AFC offense in Evan Silva's Team-by-Team Notes, accessible at the link below.

Source: AFC Team-by-Team Notes
 
Rotoworld Excerpt:

Of Knowshon Moreno's 241 carries last season, 192 (79.7 percent) came against defenses playing six or fewer defenders in the box.
Moreno ranked 53rd in carries against seven-plus defenders in the box, despite ranking 13th in the league in total carries.
 
Rotoworld Excerpt:

Of Knowshon Moreno's 241 carries last season, 192 (79.7 percent) came against defenses playing six or fewer defenders in the box.

Moreno ranked 53rd in carries against seven-plus defenders in the box, despite ranking 13th in the league in total carries.
Very telling stat right there. Moreno is a backup quality RB who was in a dream situation to produce last years. I'll let others over draft and pay for him this year.
 
Moreno is thr reason the Broncos offense sucked in the Super Bowl? I get hating on Moreno, but that's ridiculous.
I have yet to hear one credible opinion that the SB failure had anything to do with Moreno. I haven't even heard die hard orange colored glasses wearers take this position.

Not sure where this nonsense started.

 
Moreno is thr reason the Broncos offense sucked in the Super Bowl? I get hating on Moreno, but that's ridiculous.
I have yet to hear one credible opinion that the SB failure had anything to do with Moreno. I haven't even heard die hard orange colored glasses wearers take this position.

Not sure where this nonsense started.
No kidding. The offense completely collapsed against Seattle and it had little to do with Moreno.

 
Gut call is that he'll be a mediocre RB3 ala Mendenhall 2013. His YPC should sink like a stone outside the friendly Denver confines. Miller is nothing special, but may be a good enough runner to turn this into a committee. I think you'll have to hope that NoShow compiles enough catches to pad his weekly numbers to the point of respectability. He's not a dynamic runner, this isn't a dynamic offense, and he might not even be the outright starter.
I think that is going to be hard to do. In Denver, he can get those screens because A)defenses are focussing on Thomas, Thomas, Welker, and Decker and B) because he was part of the designed plays of setting up screens for other players.

In Miami, however, he does not have that luxury and his first and foremost priority is likely going to be helping pass protect (so he will stay in, not flash out on the screen).

I really think a 1 year deal suggests that he was brought in to keep Tannehill protected and not to focus as a runner (he is helping them buy time to build a line and they aren't worried of his long-term durability).

I always rooted for Moreno and I knew last year was the perfect storm but now I think his fantasy value is, at best, no better than Rainey last year in Baltimore or Jennings when he was in Jax (the type of guy that will have "some" value if and only if things don't go as planned and he finds himself in a role due to injuries or very unforseen scenarios).

 
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The Dolphins have a pretty good WR and TE that will draw attention. It's not like the QB is Geno Smith with no WR's to speak of.

What the OC has done with running games has me more optimistic than most I think.

 
Moreno is thr reason the Broncos offense sucked in the Super Bowl? I get hating on Moreno, but that's ridiculous.
I have yet to hear one credible opinion that the SB failure had anything to do with Moreno. I haven't even heard die hard orange colored glasses wearers take this position.

Not sure where this nonsense started.
No kidding. The offense completely collapsed against Seattle and it had little to do with Moreno.
it was over when the first snap was over Peytons head

 
Has RBBC written all over it. Avoid Miami RB's this year.

I still think Miami drafts another RB....no doubt. It's a great deal for Miami. Cheap, 1 year contract, and a guy who can easily fill the 3rd down role and split carries with Miller.

It is an open competition too. Miller is still going to be given an opportunity to hold on to the starting gig. And in all fairness.....no RB would be able to run effectively with that abortion of an OL Miami had last year. And we are still far away from having a clear picture of what it will look like this upcoming season.

Lamar was a bust last year. Well documented. But behind that OL...with a QB who had a hard time going down field when given 11 or more touches Miller produced.

14/69 TD 4.92 YPC

11/62 TD 5.63 YPC

18/89 3/23 4.94 YPC

16/105 4/24 6.56 YPC

22/72 1/13 3.27 YPC

15/61 4.06 YPC

17/73 4.29 YPC

Far too often they never committed to Lamar Miller and gave DT too much undeserved work......DT stunk up the joint yet again with his lack of anything. Sherman was a dreadful play caller....it was comical at times. Miller would look great......and then they would go away from the run and force the pass....saw it far too often. The New Orleans game was a perfect example of Shermans inept feel for a game. Miller has 11 carries for 62 yards and TD....with almost 95% of that coming in the first half. They never went back to him.....it was mindboggling. Instead they dropped Tannehill back...sack, fumble a TD for the Saints. Dropped him back again.....pick then another TD for the Saints. it was that game I realized.......Sherman stunk, they have no clue....and Lamar Miller will never be given a workload to really show his speed and big play ability. Now....Lamar had some lousy games and moments no question.....that run vs the Bengals which should have been a slam dunk 70+ yard score turned into a fumble because his vision failed him and he cut back the wrong way......I get it. But the kid has loads of talent and ability.....if he can refine it this off-season...he still has a shot at being a decent NFL runner.

I am not saying Miller is a top RB....but he is capable of making huge plays and quick hits. He is capable of running, catching and blocking.....no question. What Miller must really breakthrough on this year is running through arm tackles, ankle tackles etc and getting some better vision/awareness between the tackles. He has one more shot to do something this year as Knowshon is not a dynamic runner by any stretch. But Knowshon is a great pass catcher and great blocker.....a perfect 3rd down back. Too many times we have seen RB's emerge in year 3 or 4 as opposed to year one or 2.

I think you will see both of them often. I do not see a lead back this upcoming season.....granted if both can stay healthy it will be a full blown RBBC. So both will have hot and cold fantasy values and should be avoided for the most part......if anything they are a flex play for 2014. Unless one of them truly does emerge. And both will be given an opporutnity too as our new OC wants to commit to the run far more than the dreadful Mike Sherman.

As a Dolphins fan.....I like the signing and see it as a one year plug to bridge to either a rookie back being brought in.....or maybe Lamar Miller does finally realize his potential as a game breaker/dynamic back and carves out his true role for himself. He has the talent to do some serious damage if given the space and touches to run.

 
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Lamar Miller averaged 4.1 ypc with arguably the worst OL in the game. His 2014 YPC will be better than Moreno's. Hope they got him cheap. They got rid of problem #1 - Mike Sherman, earlier this year.

 
Lamar Miller averaged 4.1 ypc with arguably the worst OL in the game. His 2014 YPC will be better than Moreno's. Hope they got him cheap. They got rid of problem #1 - Mike Sherman, earlier this year.
I watched every snap of what was maybe one of the more painful seasons to watch due to

1) The blatent ineptitude of Mike Sherman's playcalling and inability to adapt to what defenses were giving him

2) The worst Dolphins OL I have ever seen in all the years I have watched this team (starting in 1975).

3) The obvious fact that Joe Philbin is no leader of men. And no question in my mind....he will be axed after this upcoming season. He will not only have to make the post season....but win in the post season to have any inkling of a shot to retain his job.

Miller when given the opportunity of touches performed save for the opener in Cleveland.....they never committed to him 100%......ever. Daniel Thomas was forced fed....why I don't know. He is a worthless RB in the NFL.....no speed, no wiggle, no agility.....he brought nothing to the table....and I will be shocked if he makes the team this season.

Again......Miller has many detractors. And he is not a pile mover....but neither are many backs in this league. Moreno is certainly no pile mover either. Miller is too young to be written off just yet. But like I mentioned above....he must improve certain aspects of his game....and at 22 years old.....he is certainly young enough to correct some things.

Again 22 years old.

 
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Oh I think he will attempt too....especially when he get's a glimpse of Millers insane speed on the edges in person.

Everything depends on the rebuilding of this OL. If they get a quality RG and RT we have hope. Right now......it is very tempered hope. But I am encouraged on our FA signings thus far and the still healthy amount of cap space we still have. More veterans will be getting cut. I think we make a strong play for that guard in Philly that is being dangled out their for a 4th or 5th round pick.

Moreno is veteran insurance. One year deal. Miller is still very much in the mix and this teams plans for 2014 make no mistake about that. But we did need a veteran RB badly.....one that can pass protect well, and give us a real good option on 3rd down. Moreno will be as servicable as our OL goes. If we had the same line as last season.....Moreno would average 3.5 - 3.7 YPC like Thomas. He does not have the speed Miller posesses....not even close.

It todays NFL....the way things are going....having a dynamic speed back to work in space is a nice asset (Reggie Bush, Shady, Charles, Sproles, Spiller, Vereen, etc etc) and for the Dolphins they have that piece.......let's see if Moreno can give them some tough inside running and third down pass protection/receptions. Miller can be a deadly COP back and have some big games too.....and I still see pontetial upside for an even bigger role if can work out some of his current deficencies.

RBBC indeed.

As a Moreno and Miller owner......for fantasy purposes I am not that thrilled.....but as a DOlphins fan....lot's of hope again this spring LOL.

Fix that OL....and this team can contend for the post season.

 
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purestrength said:
Broncos will be sorry they let Knowshon go.
I agree.
Whatever will they do without the almighty Knowshon Moreno?
I know, right?

It's pretty easy to replace a veteran who played all 16 games, helped keep your franchise QB upright, had 60 receptions, 1600 total yards, and 13 TD's.

No worries.
Especially since they are replacing Moreno with a one legged stuffed bear, right?

 
As a Miami fan, I think this is a great signing. Neither Thomas or Miller was any use on 3rd and long. They couldn't pass block or swing out of the backfield. Moreno is a great non-fantasy signing. Now, fantasy wise, as a Moreno owner I wouldn't be too happy unless I owned Ball. But that's another story.

I still think Miller gets a ton of 1st and 2nd down work. he does have a lot of natural ability. Obviously, as others have mentioned, Miami's biggest two problems last year were Sherman and the OL. Hopefully, both have been solved. If so, maybe Miller becomes a star. Its at least possible. I don't think Moreno's ceiling is that high since he's out of Denver.

 
Rotoworld:

Knowshon Moreno's one-year contract with the Dolphins has a base value of $3 million, including a $500,000 signing bonus.
It's a backup or committee back-type deal. Moreno's base salary is $1.975 million, with another $500,000 roster bonus, and $300,000 more in per-game roster bonuses. Moreno projects as a competitor for playing time, along with Lamar Miller. We also wouldn't be shocked if Miami drafted a tailback in May.

Source: Aaron Wilson on Twitter
 
OK, so the theory here is that Lamar Miller is not a chump. He just played behind a bad line. And that this new OC will use him better and we will see the real Lamar Miller.

The question I have to ask is this. If the new OC decides they need another RB, doesn't that speak volumes as to what that OC thinks of Lamar Miller? I realize that Moreno signed for peanuts (as did every other FA RB), but a guy coming off 1600 yards is probably not going to be the 3rd down back to Miller. But that's just me.

 
OK, so the theory here is that Lamar Miller is not a chump. He just played behind a bad line. And that this new OC will use him better and we will see the real Lamar Miller.

The question I have to ask is this. If the new OC decides they need another RB, doesn't that speak volumes as to what that OC thinks of Lamar Miller? I realize that Moreno signed for peanuts (as did every other FA RB), but a guy coming off 1600 yards is probably not going to be the 3rd down back to Miller. But that's just me.
I have little doubt Lamar Miller is a better back than he showed last season. He definitely has more upside left. He is still quite young by NFL standards. I am sure it will be an open competition and I would not be surprised to see a full blown RBBC.

Make no mistake…..this is it for Lamar Miller. Either he improves upon last year and makes a claim to the job or he becomes a memory. I think the signing is very solid and clearly due to the ineptness of Daniel Thomas. Not Lamar Miller.

Knowshon's situation was incredible. He is now going to a far worse situation……hopefully the Fins improve the OL big time…..ir it won't matter who is toting the rock.

 
OK, so the theory here is that Lamar Miller is not a chump. He just played behind a bad line. And that this new OC will use him better and we will see the real Lamar Miller.

The question I have to ask is this. If the new OC decides they need another RB, doesn't that speak volumes as to what that OC thinks of Lamar Miller? I realize that Moreno signed for peanuts (as did every other FA RB), but a guy coming off 1600 yards is probably not going to be the 3rd down back to Miller. But that's just me.
You know what would speak more? Drafting a RB of Miller's size and skillset. Moreno's a bum. Miller might be but we know Moreno is. If Manning had not shown up, he would have been cut from the team.

 

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