101 Best Songs of 1988:#1 – Guns n’ Roses – Sweet Child o’ Mine (2 Viewers)

[rockaction]

I also remember buying The Joshua Tree around this time, speaking of U2. It was too arena-sterile, too slow for me. I didn't get its greatness until much later. I just didn't dig on it. I was getting into punk/indie/thrash and U2 was coming out of alternative and into melancholic big-sounding arena rock meant to appeal to the masses. We were moving in opposite directions, me and U2, and we wouldn't meet back up until, well, maybe never, actually. I think the whole indie/punk/alternative thing completely changed the way I processed music both from a scale of distribution and production but also what that scale meant in terms of what kind of sounds the bands were trying to achieve. And mine wasn't a U2 sound for sure. 

Just my two cents about the U2 pick from the time period. 

 

[rockaction]

I still respect U2 and grudgingly admit their greatness. It was just never really meant to speak to me emotionally. I'm that sucker that thinks "Beautiful Day" is one of their greatest all-time songs. It means to be heavier arena rock for the masses without apologies, and it works. Would that same thing be said of the line they often straddled in their earlier efforts at pop superstardom. 

 

[rockaction]

It's all right it's all right - it's all right
She moves in mysterious ways

 Argh. 

 

[scorchy]

I also remember buying The Joshua Tree around this time, speaking of U2. It was too arena-sterile, too slow for me. I didn't get its greatness until much later. I just didn't dig on it. I was getting into punk/indie/thrash and U2 was coming out of alternative and into melancholic big-sounding arena rock meant to appeal to the masses. We were moving in opposite directions, me and U2, and we wouldn't meet back up until, well, maybe never, actually. I think the whole indie/punk/alternative thing completely changed the way I processed music both from a scale of distribution and production but also what that scale meant in terms of what kind of sounds the bands were trying to achieve. And mine wasn't a U2 sound for sure. 

Just my two cents about the U2 pick from the time period. 

Ha - I wish I could claim intent for the typo. Revenge of the misplaced apostrophe wreaking havoc on my brain. Or typing on a phone.

I loved that XXX Jane's record so much. I bought it on cassette first then upgraded. I had been looking for the vinyl for years (it was never repressed) but refused to buy it off ebay or discogs. Then one day pre-pandemic, I walked into my local record store and what's at the very front of the used new arrivals? Best $70 I've spent in a long time - nothing compares to that feeling of walking into a shop and finding something you've been searching for forever.

 

[Mookie Gizzy]

#49 – Fine Young Cannibals – She Drives Me Crazy

This one barely made the cut – released as a single for Christmas 1988 a few weeks ahead of The Raw and the Cooked.  I’ve always been fascinated how certain songs/bands from the late 80s broke out from the alternative label and took over the Hot 100.  For every Fine Young Cannibals or Tracy Chapman there were seemingly a half-dozen similar sounding artists that couldn’t sniff the Top 10.  She Drives Me Crazy premiered on 120 Minutes the first week of January 1989 – it hit #1 on the pop charts 3 months later.  The follow up – Good Thing, which I think is legitimately terrible – also topped the charts.  FYC issued a few more singles over the next few years but never released another album.

She Drive's Me Crazy

Well, I happen to love Good Thing. 

 

[rockaction]

Ha - I wish I could claim intent for the typo. Revenge of the misplaced apostrophe wreaking havoc on my brain. Or typing on a phone.

I loved that XXX Jane's record so much. I bought it on cassette first then upgraded. I had been looking for the vinyl for years (it was never repressed) but refused to buy it off ebay or discogs. Then one day pre-pandemic, I walked into my local record store and what's at the very front of the used new arrivals? Best $70 I've spent in a long time - nothing compares to that feeling of walking into a shop and finding something you've been searching for forever.

Oh yeah, I can relate to your feeling upon finding the Jane's record. Serendipity! Two years ago, I walked into a record store in Italy that happened to be right down the street from our Air BnB (or something like that) pad. On the wall was Mogwai's "My Father My King," and I dropped the greatest fifty Euro I was to spend that trip. That album is not repressed and is quite spendy to get a good copy from Discogs. That album had gotten me into post-rock, a form of music that was my favorite for about a decade besides that brief period in the aughts when dance-punk and Roc-A-Fella ruled the airwaves. 

It was a much better purchase than the cannabis-tasting-but-not-THC-having gummies that I purchased at a tourist trap fake weed store for almost the same amount, in total. 

 

[scorchy]

Two years ago, I walked into a record store in Italy that happened to be right down the street from our Air BnB...

I've spent a good 2 hours in Coretex Records in Berlin every time I've been (hopefully even more now that my niece moved there). You would love it - might be the best punk rock record shop on the planet.  The records always made the trip home fine but the sweet Coretex t-shirt didn't survive my dryer. I really should have bought the XL - stupid skinny germans.

 

[rockaction]

I've spent a good 2 hours in Coretex Records in Berlin every time I've been (hopefully even more now that my niece moved there). You would love it - might be the best punk rock record shop on the planet.  The records always made the trip home fine but the sweet Coretex t-shirt didn't survive my dryer. I really should have bought the XL - stupid skinny germans.

Sweet. I have shirts from the Picasso museum in Spain that are XXL. They still don't fit right. I'm going to refrain on the blame on that one. I am an American XL, through and through. That's not small nor skinny. 

 

[massraider]

I still respect U2 and grudgingly admit their greatness. It was just never really meant to speak to me emotionally. I'm that sucker that thinks "Beautiful Day" is one of their greatest all-time songs. It means to be heavier arena rock for the masses without apologies, and it works. Would that same thing be said of the line they often straddled in their earlier efforts at pop superstardom. 

I think U2 can be an all time great band, and definitely the best live band I've ever seen, and Bono can also be a phony windbag. 

Regarding your earlier post, I loved Jane's AND Fine Young Cannibals. That cover of Suspicious Minds always puts me in a good mood. 

 

[Eephus]

#49 – Fine Young Cannibals – She Drives Me Crazy

Dave Wakeling and Ranking Roger got all the attention as the front men of The (English) Beat but Fine Young Cannibals showed how important guitarist Andy Cox and bass man David Steele were to the earlier band's sound. Cox was incredible with rhythms although his bizarre dancing in place left something to be desired.

 

[scorchy]

#48 – Siouxsie & the Banshees – Peek-A-Boo

Siouxsie & the Banshees had been around for a dozen years when they released their ninth album Peepshow in 1988.  The band crossed so many genres – punk, post-punk, goth, and alternative – but Peek-A-Boo sounded like nothing they had ever done.  It’s like carnival music meets my nightmares.  Peek-A-Boo was the band’s first single to crack the U.S. Hot 100 and was the #1 song on the new Billboard Modern Rock chart when it was first published in September 1988.  It's thumping beat led to lots of heavy-footed floor stomping among the Doc boot wearing crowd at the goth clubs over the years.

Peek-A-Boo

 

[zamboni]

#48 – Siouxsie & the Banshees – Peek-A-Boo

Siouxsie & the Banshees had been around for a dozen years when they released their ninth album Peepshow in 1988.  The band crossed so many genres – punk, post-punk, goth, and alternative – but Peek-A-Boo sounded like nothing they had ever done.  It’s like carnival music meets my nightmares.  Peek-A-Boo was the band’s first single to crack the U.S. Hot 100 and was the #1 song on the new Billboard Modern Rock chart when it was first published in September 1988.  It's thumping beat led to lots of heavy-footed floor stomping among the Doc boot wearing crowd at the goth clubs over the years.

Peek-A-Boo

Hadn't heard this in forever and had to confirm it wasn't a Devo cover. Never mind - carry on.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

I still respect U2 and grudgingly admit their greatness. It was just never really meant to speak to me emotionally. I'm that sucker that thinks "Beautiful Day" is one of their greatest all-time songs. It means to be heavier arena rock for the masses without apologies, and it works. Would that same thing be said of the line they often straddled in their earlier efforts at pop superstardom. 

Beautiful Day IS one of their greatest all-time songs. I suspect it will be way up there in JML’s countdown, but who knows given how the rankers felt about Bullet the Blue Sky.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Well, I happen to love Good Thing. 

So do I! 

Of all the songs that came out in the late 80s, to find THAT one unbearable seems odd to me.

 

[scorchy]

Hadn't heard this in forever and had to confirm it wasn't a Devo cover. Never mind - carry on.

I'm not sure which Peek-A-Boo is stranger - at least Devo didn't have a seizure-inducing video.

 

[scorchy]

So do I! 

Of all the songs that came out in the late 80s, to find THAT one unbearable seems odd to me.

I dunno.  I just listened to it again for probably the first time in a dozen years - I always change the channel as soon as I hear the opening piano notes.  Maybe I'm like rockaction and when FYC came around I was deep into Jane's and Pixies and Metallica and GnR, and comparatively FYC just seemed so soft.  But that doesn't really make sense considering I liked Morrissey and Erasure and Cowboy Junkies.  Could be that I just don't like guys named Roland?

 

[rockaction]

 Could be that I just don't like guys named Roland?

What would you do without his synth rigs? 

 

[scorchy]

What would you do without his synth rigs? 

Yeah, that can't be it.  I'm pro-Roland keyboards, indifferent about Roland Orzabol, and a huge fan of Roland "Fish" Powell - longtime mayor of Ocean City MD who I once crushed at NTN bar trivia while drinking at Nick Idonis House of Ribs on 146th street.

 

[massraider]

Could be that I just don't like guys named Roland?

Here, I'll fix that.

I bartended a Boston nightclub in the 90's. One of the cocktail waitresses had a friend named Roland, and I would put him on my guest list, so he and his buddy could get in. 

We did a lot of drugs at this particular club. The bar staff (8+ bartenders per weekend shift) all partied every weekend. I worked a one man bar in the 2nd floor, and my barback was the house coke dealer, and he would come in 30 minutes early  every Friday and Saturday to set the bar up when no one was here, because when staff was there, he was too busy sorting everyone out to actually be a barback. 

(Sidebar about me and my barback, Juan Carlos. Having him as a barback could be a burden, because he would slip away to do a deal regularly, sometimes when needed, and one night he hid in the beer cooler for the entire night hiding from a crazed Columbian dime piece. Good times with JC tho. One time the management had a staff meeting, and we all had to do a deep clean of the bars, remove the bottles, etc. JC and I exchanged meaningful glances during this meeting, and we made sure we were assigned the bar I worked. Reason being, people used to tip us in folded cocktail napkins all the time, and I would toss them in the tip bucket at the top of the back bar, where all the bottles were. Well, I missed a lot. When we cleared the bottles and cleaned the back bar, we must have found 30 random pulls and capsules, and about $1500 in baggies of Charlie Sheen).

Anyway, at this club, the staff used code words for drugs. A bartender would ask another bartender: Have you seen Ethan? Have you seen Carlos? The other bartender could let them know when the stuff was arriving. 

So one night I am bartending, and have taken two hits of E, and was rolling face. The aforementioned cocktail waitress walks up to me and says, Have you seen Roland? And in that split second, I thought to myself, Oh man, that's such a better code word that Ethan!!! It's not even close!! How have I missed this??

'Matter of fact, he's been in my back pocket all night long!'

Cocktail waitress looks at me confused, and says, 'WTF are you talking about?'

Now, I'm confused for a second, then I figure out what she was really asking, and I answer 'Ohhh, Roland the guy! Uhhm, no, I haven't seen him.'

After that, we only used Roland as the code word, and 'Ohhh, Roland the guy!' was mockingly quoted back to me for months at work.  

Roland was a good dude. 

 

[rockaction]

Yeah, that can't be it.  I'm pro-Roland keyboards, indifferent about Roland Orzabol, and a huge fan of Roland "Fish" Powell - longtime mayor of Ocean City MD who I once crushed at NTN bar trivia while drinking at Nick Idonis House of Ribs on 146th street.

Most people take no position on this. I admire the bold take regarding the boldface font, but I think it belongs in the PSF. 

As for "Fish," that was a nice obit. I lived in MD but am not too familiar with either Ocean City nor the House of Ribs. I am no killer at NTN trivia, either. We used to have a bar in Springfield, MA called Theodore's where the serious trivia heads hung out and competed in those nation-wide bar battles, so beginners had built-in discouragement and my game was never top-flight. So on the sidelines, sat I, longing for my chance in the spotlight. 

Then I couldn't even sniff the locals when we played. 

 

[rockaction]

Here, I'll fix that.

I bartended a Boston nightclub in the 90's. One of the cocktail waitresses had a friend named Roland, and I would put him on my guest list, so he and his buddy could get in. 

We did a lot of drugs at this particular club. The bar staff (8+ bartenders per weekend shift) all partied every weekend. I worked a one man bar in the 2nd floor, and my barback was the house coke dealer, and he would come in 30 minutes early  every Friday and Saturday to set the bar up when no one was here, because when staff was there, he was too busy sorting everyone out to actually be a barback. 

(Sidebar about me and my barback, Juan Carlos. Having him as a barback could be a burden, because he would slip away to do a deal regularly, sometimes when needed, and one night he hid in the beer cooler for the entire night hiding from a crazed Columbian dime piece. Good times with JC tho. One time the management had a staff meeting, and we all had to do a deep clean of the bars, remove the bottles, etc. JC and I exchanged meaningful glances during this meeting, and we made sure we were assigned the bar I worked. Reason being, people used to tip us in folded cocktail napkins all the time, and I would toss them in the tip bucket at the top of the back bar, where all the bottles were. Well, I missed a lot. When we cleared the bottles and cleaned the back bar, we must have found 30 random pulls and capsules, and about $1500 in baggies of Charlie Sheen).

Anyway, at this club, the staff used code words for drugs. A bartender would ask another bartender: Have you seen Ethan? Have you seen Carlos? The other bartender could let them know when the stuff was arriving. 

So one night I am bartending, and have taken two hits of E, and was rolling face. The aforementioned cocktail waitress walks up to me and says, Have you seen Roland? And in that split second, I thought to myself, Oh man, that's such a better code word that Ethan!!! It's not even close!! How have I missed this??

'Matter of fact, he's been in my back pocket all night long!'

Cocktail waitress looks at me confused, and says, 'WTF are you talking about?'

Now, I'm confused for a second, then I figure out what she was really asking, and I answer 'Ohhh, Roland the guy! Uhhm, no, I haven't seen him.'

After that, we only used Roland as the code word, and 'Ohhh, Roland the guy!' was mockingly quoted back to me for months at work.  

Roland was a good dude. 

The code words to the ever-elusive elixir. Roland sounds like a nightly signal of competence and double-entry accounting to be. Hwarf. 

 

[scorchy]

#47 - Ice T - Colors

It's been while we've seen a hip-hop song in here.  1988 was the year Gangsta Rap reached the masses and led to Ice T's first entry into the Hot 100 (#70).  All I really remember about the movie is Sean Penn being a hothead (big stretch) - no idea if it was any good or if I just loved it at the time because I was 16 and dug the soundtrack.  Curious if all those old people who love watching Ice-T on L&O:SVU remember that he was public enemy #1 for a period in the early 90s thanks to the song Cop Killer from his band Body Count's self-titled debut.  Mama's Gotta Die Tonight and Evil **** were personal favorites.  

Colors

 

[scorchy]

Roland was a good dude. 

Those are the kind of stories we're here for - not my boring-### radio dedication crap.

 

[rockaction]

Beautiful Day IS one of their greatest all-time songs. I suspect it will be way up there in JML’s countdown, but who knows given how the rankers felt about Bullet the Blue Sky.

I know this is a bit of a digression, I just wanted to respond to my GB Pip here. I had a sneaking suspicion that this was the case -- that U2 fans loved "Beautiful Day." I just thought it was an example I could plow ahead with an example of a song that shows a time I actually got the grandiose aims of a U2 song, whereas others, more muted and almost straddling the line between alternative and their own arena-ness, left me flat. 

#47 - Ice T - Colors

It's been while we've seen a hip-hop song in here.  1988 was the year Gangsta Rap reached the masses and let to Ice T's first entry into the Hot 100 (#70).  All I really remember about the movie is Sean Penn being a hothead (big stretch) - no idea if it was any good or if I just loved it at the time because I 16 and dug the soundtrack.  Curious if all those old people who love watching Ice-T on L&O:SVU remember that he was public enemy #1 for a period in the early 90s thanks to the song Cop Killer from his band Body Count's self-titled debut.  Mama's Gotta Die Tonight and Evil **** were personal favorites.  

Colors

This is interesting. I always thought Body Count was just an awful band. As somebody who loved thrash, all the star power in the world couldn't make that album go down. And it wasn't race, either. Thrash was just done much better by more serious acts. In defense of the race thing, I wasn't even conscious of black consciousness to reject it. To wit: Suicidal Tendencies was my favorite thrash band, and they were Latino and black. They were so Latino and black that the Southern Californian and racially diverse culture they were from informed everything they did, but I didn't get how it informed everything they did. It just sounded so ####### cool. Oops. I hope I'm not spotlighting. Young rock wouldn't hit Suicidal as his favorite until 1989, but they were indeed his favorite band. 

"Colors," though. A classic rap song, and an important one. If you weren't into NWA, this paved the way (at least it did for me). Ice-T was a bit more melodic, a bit more accessible. Plus, it was on a soundtrack!

The movie, scorchy? I remember being disappointed with it. 

 

[rockaction]

Those are the kind of stories we're here for - not my boring-### radio dedication crap.

I almost had started a thread about dedications (it was really coincidental, and weird, so I just figured I'd let it pass) before you told the story, so that was my sweet spot, actually. Not to blow too much smoke, but I enjoyed that. 

And I'm almost Hippling your thread, so I'll skate off and leave it for any reader to peruse. This is a fun thread. It's really memory lane, because young rock was fifteen and just beginning to form a distinct individual personality, so this is kind of cool. Thanks for the memories. 

 

[plinko]

Body Count was good, fun and its own thing.  Can't really compare them to ST or even the Living Colours and Fishbones because they weren't an organic band, IMO, they were a side hustle, partly a joke but a serious joke, it was Ice and a bunch of dudes and they knew that

I loved the album, over the top and insane, yes, I think it was historic and so is Colors, the song and the movie

Two bulls are standing at the top of a hill..

 

[scorchy]

This is interesting. I always thought Body Count was just an awful band. As somebody who loved thrash, all the star power in the world couldn't make that album go down. And it wasn't race, either. Thrash was just done much better by more serious acts. 

Oh, Body Count were definitely terrible.  My love of those two songs was based on how comically bad they were.

Sorry @plinko - just saw your post after I wrote the above.  I guess instead of "terrible," I should say that I don't think they were taking themselves particularly seriously, so I never really did either.  I liked listening to the album, but it was all about the shock value for me.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

I am pro-Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner and pro-Roland the Interpol song.

As I never hung out with the members of Interpol, I do not have any Roland-related drug stories.

 

[PIK95]

No idea what's going on here, but 1988 was one of the last truly great years in music imo.  Carry on.

 

[plinko]

Oh, Body Count were definitely terrible.  My love of those two songs was based on how comically bad they were.

Sorry @plinko - just saw your post after I wrote the above.  I guess instead of "terrible," I should say that I don't think they were taking themselves particularly seriously, so I never really did either.  I liked listening to the album, but it was all about the shock value for me.

No need to be sorry, it's hard core gangster rap in the form of amateurish metal, so you kind of had to like both of those things

Some seriously hilarious and meaningful #### in that record

But back to 1988!

Wake me up at VVI time

 

[zamboni]

The movie, scorchy? I remember being disappointed with it. 

Yeah, Colors the movie could have been better. 

Did have a few crossovers from the the previous year's classic Can't Buy Me Love though.

https://youtu.be/O_IZqFtXqcE?t=18: Gerardo "Rico Sauve" Mejia (Ricky in CBM) and Courtney Gains (Whitey in Colors, Kenneth in CBML)

 

[Leroy Hoard]

What would you do without his synth rigs? 

I remember a band out of Chicago called Big Black. They consisted of 2 guitarists and a bass player. Took me forever to figure out from the back cover credits that "Roland" was just a drum machine and not a person.

 

[scorchy]

I remember a band out of Chicago called Big Black. They consisted of 2 guitarists and a bass player. Took me forever to figure out from the back cover credits that "Roland" was just a drum machine and not a person.

Love Big Black. I blast Songs About ####ing whenever I want to drive Mrs. Scorchy out of the house.  Steve Albini seems like bit of a jerk, however.

 

[rockaction]

Love Big Black. I blast Songs About ####ing whenever I want to drive Mrs. Scorchy out of the house.  Steve Albini seems like bit of a jerk, however.

"Fish Fry" was a long-standing blast out of the car of a seventeen or eighteen or nineteen year-old rock, too. (I can't remember the exact year). 

He's got his eight track playing/really ####in' loud!

Uh oh about the bolded. Don't tell @krista4that. Her ex-Mr. is actually real-life friends with Albini, or at least we have been led to believe. I have no doubts about it, personally. Perhaps she can chime in about Albini and Big Black. 

 

[rockaction]

Also, I just realized, thanks to beer30 pointing out that GM did it in the Dr. Pepper thread, that I've been going third-person in this thread since I brought "young rock" into the equation. 

The third-person is so liberating. 

 

[scorchy]

Uh oh about the bolded. Don't tell @krista4that. Her ex-Mr. is actually real-life friends with Albini, or at least we have been led to believe. I have no doubts about it, personally. Perhaps she can chime in about Albini and Big Black. 

Interesting. I know he's done a lot of good for a lot of really great bands, but he has the rep of being completely uncompromising and willing to a hold a grudge for eternity. Or maybe I'm putting too much stock in what was said by the dudes from Urge Overkill.  Would love to be wrong.

 

[rockaction]

Interesting. I know he's done a lot of good for a lot of really great bands, but he has the rep of being completely uncompromising and willing to a hold a grudge for eternity. Or maybe I'm putting too much stock in what was said by the dudes from Urge Overkill.  Would love to be wrong.

Weird. Urge Overkill does not sound like a project he'd undertake. Weren't they on Sub Pop and sort of sludge or hardcore at some point, though, before they cut the Neil Diamond cover? I seem to remember something like that. 

Interesting that they would have been slated to work with him. 

 

[krista4]

"Fish Fry" was a long-standing blast out of the car of a seventeen or eighteen or nineteen year-old rock, too. (I can't remember the exact year). 

He's got his eight track playing/really ####in' loud!

Uh oh about the bolded. Don't tell @krista4that. Her ex-Mr. is actually real-life friends with Albini, or at least we have been led to believe. I have no doubts about it, personally. Perhaps she can chime in about Albini and Big Black. 

One of his BFFs, and a fantastic dude.  One of the most generous people I know, and exceedingly kind.  I could see how his public persona might rub people the wrong way, as he doesn't hold back on saying exactly what he's thinking.

 

[krista4]

Interesting. I know he's done a lot of good for a lot of really great bands, but he has the rep of being completely uncompromising and willing to a hold a grudge for eternity. Or maybe I'm putting too much stock in what was said by the dudes from Urge Overkill.  Would love to be wrong.

I'll ask him about Urge Overkill.  I don't think it's a misstatement to view Steve as uncompromising.

 

[krista4]

Uh oh about the bolded. Don't tell @krista4that. Her ex-Mr. is actually real-life friends with Albini, or at least we have been led to believe. I have no doubts about it, personally. Perhaps she can chime in about Albini and Big Black. 

This was a pretty weird statement, by the way.

 

[rockaction]

This was a pretty weird statement, by the way.

Yeah, I knew that as I was typing it. I was speaking to the people that have skepticism dialed up to high about internet relations. People are often not going to believe stuff. I literally have no doubts, as I was saying. I believe you. Some people might not. That was covering all bases, something I probably shouldn't have worried about. I get skeptical looks from a lot of people when I talk about internet friends. That's for them. 

I have no doubts. Quite literally.

eta* My apologies if it came off any other way. 

 

[krista4]

Yeah, I knew that as I was typing it. I was speaking to the people that have skepticism dialed up to high about internet relations. People are often not going to believe stuff. I literally have no doubts, as I was saying. I believe you. Some people might not. That was covering all bases, something I probably shouldn't have worried about. I get skeptical looks from a lot of people when I talk about internet friends. That's for them. 

I have no doubts. Quite literally.

eta* My apologies if it came off any other way. 

It didn't come off as if you had doubts, but I just can't imagine why anyone would, so even saying that hit me oddly.  No worries.

 

[massraider]

This was a pretty weird statement, by the way.

Heeyyyy, anyone else here think this is not the first time @rockaction has heard this?

 

[massraider]

I am a nightmare walking, psychopath talking
King of my jungle just a gangster stalking

Sick opening verse. Just filthy awesome.  This was on the pregame playlist at my high school. 

 

[krista4]

Heeyyyy, anyone else here think this is not the first time @rockaction has heard this?

Probably not the first time from me!

Love ya, rock.   

 

[rockaction]

It didn't come off as if you had doubts, but I just can't imagine why anyone would, so even saying that hit me oddly.  No worries.

Cool. I often try to and cover all bases and put myself in the position of hardened skeptics, and it can be to the detriment to human relations. Just something I'm used to as someone who has traversed with some famous people in certain fields. People will often not believe you when you tell them first-hand knowledge of things that contradict the public understanding of those people, and I've been on the receiving end of the accusation that I didn't really know them or their work. 

It's a defense mechanism I have, and not always a charming one. Plus, having real life people that are skeptical of your internet friends and interactions is a whole 'nother dynamic. 

 

[rockaction]

Probably not the first time from me!

Love ya, rock.   

Same here, k4. Thanks! 

 

[scorchy]

Yeah, I knew that as I was typing it. I was speaking to the people that have skepticism dialed up to high about internet relations. People are often not going to believe stuff. I literally have no doubts, as I was saying. I believe you. Some people might not. That was covering all bases, something I probably shouldn't have worried about. I get skeptical looks from a lot of people when I talk about internet friends. That's for them. 

I have no doubts. Quite literally.

eta* My apologies if it came off any other way. 

I promise I wasn't lying about beating the former mayor of OCMD in trivia.

 

[scorchy]

One of his BFFs, and a fantastic dude.  One of the most generous people I know, and exceedingly kind.  I could see how his public persona might rub people the wrong way, as he doesn't hold back on saying exactly what he's thinking.

Thanks for the info - I know he's been amazingly generous with his time and produced a few of my favorite records. I read about the U/O feud a few years back in a book by Jim DeRogatis (who Steve Albini also hates).  A quick google to refresh my memory revealed this quote:

“I have to admit that my hatred of them is slightly irrational, in that special way that you feel hatred when people who were once good friends turn into pieces of ####.  Urge are scheming, careerist, and manipulative.”

The  careerist line has me looking even more forward to the next book in my queue - Sellout: The Major-Label Feeding Frenzy That Swept Punk, Emo, and Hardcore (1994–2007).  Jawbreaker  - another band produced by Steve - figures prominently.  Funny how the whole concept of sellout was so prominent then and pretty much non-existent now.

 

[rockaction]

The  careerist line has me looking even more forward to the next book in my queue - Sellout: The Major-Label Feeding Frenzy That Swept Punk, Emo, and Hardcore (1994–2007).  Jawbreaker  - another band produced by Steve - figures prominently.  Funny how the whole concept of sellout was so prominent then and pretty much non-existent now.

Green Day almost obliterated the concept of "sell-out." Their song "86," about being banned or socially barred from Gilman St. in Northern California, is actually quite a sad song if one knows the backstory. I think that nowadays, nobody really wants to begrudge old friends who mean well while seeking a larger audience. 

The issues that it brings are beyond my pay grade, and I'll leave it at that. It's just that Green Day was a particular band that pretty much was an encapsulation of the movement of punk to the mainstream. Larry Livermore of Lookout! had tons to do with the punk movement towards markets and large-scale distribution behind the economic scenes, and punk, once distributed, ingrained itself in the public consciousness. Some would say it never regained its underdog status.

In addition, the 1977 British emphasis on punk fashion and its subsequent adoption by North American fashion outlets everywhere played a large role in punk's ascension into public consciousness of all walks of life, not just music, and the music, which was always pop at heart, just distorted beyond belief, took on a lyrical change in that it went more towards universal concerns of love and pop culture issues rather than remaining expressly political or anti-social. 

I wonder what the book says. Sounds like a great read.