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2011 offseason dynasty trades (1 Viewer)

'Lott said:
At WORST Marshall for Holmes improves his WR corps??? In ANY format??? Holy hyperbole, Batman...Marshall crushes Holmes in PPR, and is probably better in non PPR as well. Holmes COULD blow up as the lead WR once B Edwards is gone, but the Jets passing attack is not exciting. I wouldn't expect more than average WR2 numbers from Holmes. Look at Marshall's production and, more importantly, his rate of production for the last four years.... It took him missing 2 1/2 games to not get his 100 catches for the first time as a starter, but he was still on pace for 100/1200... Again. I understand the Marshall hate due to his attitude and off field issues, so I can understand mitigating risk by trading him, but let's not pretend that he is not a very productive fantasy WR on the field, especially in PPR. Also, it isn't as if Holmes is a high character non-risk himself.
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I don't play in a PPR league so I'd rather own Holmes than Marshall. I don't see any reason to not like Holmes and I wouldn't expect to see him in trouble again. I can't say the same for Marshall. I was receiving absolutely awful deals up to the time I offered him for Holmes. The owner also had AP Roddy White, Knox, McCoy, Charles, Bowe, Garcon and Goodson and Starks as possible toss-ins. I don't know. What's done is done. I don't know many dynasty writers pumping up Marshall's long-term prospects.Holmes still has value on a better team with a better quarterback.Perhaps I could have done better later in the season but I prefer to do something now.
 
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'Lott said:
At WORST Marshall for Holmes improves his WR corps??? In ANY format??? Holy hyperbole, Batman...Marshall crushes Holmes in PPR, and is probably better in non PPR as well. Holmes COULD blow up as the lead WR once B Edwards is gone, but the Jets passing attack is not exciting. I wouldn't expect more than average WR2 numbers from Holmes. Look at Marshall's production and, more importantly, his rate of production for the last four years.... It took him missing 2 1/2 games to not get his 100 catches for the first time as a starter, but he was still on pace for 100/1200... Again. I understand the Marshall hate due to his attitude and off field issues, so I can understand mitigating risk by trading him, but let's not pretend that he is not a very productive fantasy WR on the field, especially in PPR. Also, it isn't as if Holmes is a high character non-risk himself.
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Agreed
 
'Lott said:
At WORST Marshall for Holmes improves his WR corps??? In ANY format??? Holy hyperbole, Batman...Marshall crushes Holmes in PPR, and is probably better in non PPR as well. Holmes COULD blow up as the lead WR once B Edwards is gone, but the Jets passing attack is not exciting. I wouldn't expect more than average WR2 numbers from Holmes. Look at Marshall's production and, more importantly, his rate of production for the last four years.... It took him missing 2 1/2 games to not get his 100 catches for the first time as a starter, but he was still on pace for 100/1200... Again. I understand the Marshall hate due to his attitude and off field issues, so I can understand mitigating risk by trading him, but let's not pretend that he is not a very productive fantasy WR on the field, especially in PPR. Also, it isn't as if Holmes is a high character non-risk himself.
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I'm just a believer in Holmes' talent. I had him top 5 before the trade away from Pitt. He's still got that talent. I didn't mention offseason issues at all, anywhere in my post. I prefer Holmes to Marshall, purely from a football standpoint. If we're gonna go to pace stats and how guys did: Holmes averaged 5/75/.5 (as a second receiver)Marshall averaged 6.25/7/.2 (as the lead receiver)Not to mention, Marshall has a lower TD/season average, and a SIGNIFICANTLY lower TD/reception ratio than Holmes. I discounted both of their first years when I checked that, to be fair.So the extra 20 catches Marshall gets, in a PPR, is worth...20 points. Say he improves, and gets 4 TDs, or even 6. (career average, excluding season 1 = 6.5 - and his year with Miami was less than half that, so I think 6 is a decent projection)Holmes averages a full 2.5 ypr more for their careers, so you can expect an extra 200 points or so for him on yards worth...20 points. His career average on TDs is eerily similar...then again, he didn't break 60catches until two seasons ago, as a later bloomer. His TD/season (again, excluding first season) == 6. His TD/rec, however, is MUCH higher than Marshall's (just under twice as many TDs/rec).SO they project to almost the exact same amount of points. The question becomes then, who do you think outdoes projections? Who do you think has a longer dynasty life? WHo do you think has more tools as a receiver? WHo do you think is going to be in a more successful offense?To all of those questions, I answer Holmes. SO yes, even in PPR, undoubtedly Marshall's strongest format, I would rather have Holmes.
 
'hitchcock said:
I don't play in a PPR league so I'd rather own Holmes than Marshall. I don't see any reason to not like Holmes and I wouldn't expect to see him in trouble again. I can't say the same for Marshall. I was receiving absolutely awful deals up to the time I offered him for Holmes. The owner also had AP Roddy White, Knox, McCoy, Charles, Bowe, Garcon and Goodson and Starks as possible toss-ins. I don't know. What's done is done. I don't know many dynasty writers pumping up Marshall's long-term prospects.Holmes still has value on a better team with a better quarterback.Perhaps I could have done better later in the season but I prefer to do something now.
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I have no issue with your trade at all. Holmes is a talented guy with less baggage than Marshall. I don't buy Sanchez as a good QB, at least for fantasy, and I think that is a significant limiting factor for Holmes. But there is upside for Holmes if B.Edwards leaves.
 
'Instinctive said:
I'm just a believer in Holmes' talent. I had him top 5 before the trade away from Pitt. He's still got that talent. I didn't mention offseason issues at all, anywhere in my post. I prefer Holmes to Marshall, purely from a football standpoint. If we're gonna go to pace stats and how guys did: Holmes averaged 5/75/.5 (as a second receiver)Marshall averaged 6.25/7/.2 (as the lead receiver)Not to mention, Marshall has a lower TD/season average, and a SIGNIFICANTLY lower TD/reception ratio than Holmes. I discounted both of their first years when I checked that, to be fair.So the extra 20 catches Marshall gets, in a PPR, is worth...20 points. Say he improves, and gets 4 TDs, or even 6. (career average, excluding season 1 = 6.5 - and his year with Miami was less than half that, so I think 6 is a decent projection)Holmes averages a full 2.5 ypr more for their careers, so you can expect an extra 200 points or so for him on yards worth...20 points. His career average on TDs is eerily similar...then again, he didn't break 60catches until two seasons ago, as a later bloomer. His TD/season (again, excluding first season) == 6. His TD/rec, however, is MUCH higher than Marshall's (just under twice as many TDs/rec).SO they project to almost the exact same amount of points. The question becomes then, who do you think outdoes projections? Who do you think has a longer dynasty life? WHo do you think has more tools as a receiver? WHo do you think is going to be in a more successful offense?To all of those questions, I answer Holmes. SO yes, even in PPR, undoubtedly Marshall's strongest format, I would rather have Holmes.
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I don't have issue with Holmes' talent, I liked him in Pittsburg and traded a 1st rounder for him after his rookie season. His 2009 campaign showed what he is capable of.... when the situation is right.And that is the rub with him. Talent simply does not always trump situation. A WR is pretty highly dependent on his QB and overall offense. Big Ben is a SIGNIFICANTLY better QB than Sanchez... and Holmes was very ordinary with Sanchez last season. He wasn't the #2 WR there, either, he had more targets in his 12 games than Braylon did in those twelve games. I don't buy into per catch production too much, I think it is too easy to skew stats with it. a long ball target will have more production per catch than a guy that is used more as a possession receiver... you cannot simply increase a deep threat WR's targets and expect the same efficiency... his increased targets will include more shorter plays. And at some point you have to get enough targets to be more productive.... Holmes got around 8 targets a game, 4.3 catches for 62 yards and .5 TD... that extrapolates to 69/992/8. Meh. I'm not sure he is the type of guy that is going to get 10+ targets a game, and he isn't a redzone kind of WR, and Sanchez doesn't look great for fantasy, and the Jets are more of a defensive and running team.... but I acknowledge that he could make a jump with Edwards' departure. I just don't think it will be a big jump.The only on-field knock on Marshall is his lack of TDs. TDs for WRs are extremely volatile and very difficult to predict. I would be perfectly comfortable wagering that Brandon Marshall just set his low mark for TDs with 3, assuming 16 games played. He gets over 10 targets a game (almost 11/g last year), plenty of catches, plenty of yards.... those you can more accurately project. TDs? There is a reason there are 43 WRs projected to score between 5 and 9 TDs in Dodds' projections.... that is the sweet spot. It is hard to score 10+ as a WR. It is also hard to score 4 or fewer on over 100 targets, and especially hard on 146 targets. Does anybody believe Marshall is getting only 3 TDs next year? I certainly do not project 10+ in Miami, but 5-9 is very reasonable for a 6'4" 230 lb WR.Anyway, I am fine with you or anybody else liking Holmes more than Marshall. But it is just silly to say that "at worst" Holmes is an upgrade over Marshall... when Marshall has had more total fantasy points the last 4 straight years. Certainly "at worst" Marshall outscores Holmes again and the trade was not a good one, right?
 
'Dr. Octopus said:
'eakfootball said:
20 teamerI gave: Jordy Nelson, Brandon Tate, Kevin Burnett, Dustin Keller, 1.15I got: Mike Williams TB, 2.5, 2012 4th
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Was your trade partner drunk? I'm not as high on Tampa Mike as some are, but this deal does not get good value for him at all.
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I agree, but you also have to consider this is a 20 team league..So it's Keller/Nelson/1.15 for Williams.. I take Williams all day, but in a 20 team league this isn't as bad as it would be in a 12. first round pick becomes more valuable, above average players become more valuable, because there are so many more teams to divide the talent between.
 
Two players that are seriously undervalued based off trades in this thread are B. Marshall and Crabtree. I will seriously be trying to acquire these guys as cheap as possible.

 
'SproutDaddy said:
Two players that are seriously undervalued based off trades in this thread are B. Marshall and Crabtree. I will seriously be trying to acquire these guys as cheap as possible.
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It is a gigantic pain in the ### trying to trade Crabtree. Even the guy who said "Yeah, I'd like him on my team, he's top 15," made a crappy offer.I think he's a definite hold right now.
 
'thriftyrocker said:
'Carolina Hustler said:
'humpback said:
Non-pprRivers, Bradshaw, Marshall and Manningham forRodgers, R. Brown, Fitzgerald and Britt
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Fairly even trade, I'd give the edge to Bradshaw side
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Rodgers and Fitz are the two best players in the deal. And Britt is an upgrade over Marshall in this format.
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No way Britt is an upgrade to Marshall... lunacy I say...Rodgers and Fitz are the best players in the deal, but Rodgers is only going to maginally outproduce Rivers, and Fitz and Marshall will prob produce about =... Bradshaw>>>>>>Brown Britt>>ManinghamDepends on what your team needs, another RB, or another WR..
 
'Carolina Hustler said:
No way Britt is an upgrade to Marshall... lunacy I say...Rodgers and Fitz are the best players in the deal, but Rodgers is only going to maginally outproduce Rivers, and Fitz and Marshall will prob produce about =... Bradshaw>>>>>>Brown Britt>>ManinghamDepends on what your team needs, another RB, or another WR..
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2.5 PPG is not marginal. Unless all of FF is in the margins. Gap between Rodgers and Rivers is > than the gap between Rivers and Freeman based on last year's stats.Comparing Bradshaw and Brown is meaningless. Brown should be ignored in this trade.
 
'thriftyrocker said:
'Carolina Hustler said:
No way Britt is an upgrade to Marshall... lunacy I say...Rodgers and Fitz are the best players in the deal, but Rodgers is only going to maginally outproduce Rivers, and Fitz and Marshall will prob produce about =... Bradshaw>>>>>>Brown Britt>>ManinghamDepends on what your team needs, another RB, or another WR..
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2.5 PPG is not marginal. Unless all of FF is in the margins. Gap between Rodgers and Rivers is > than the gap between Rivers and Freeman based on last year's stats.Comparing Bradshaw and Brown is meaningless. Brown should be ignored in this trade.
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Not sure what scoring you use, but this is top 9 in my league last season.Rodgers, Aaron GBP QB 352.1 23.47 Manning, Peyton IND QB 348.3 21.77 Brady, Tom NEP QB 340.3 21.27 Rivers, Philip SDC QB 339.2 21.20 Vick, Michael PHI QB 338.8 28.23 Brees, Drew NOS QB 331.9 20.74Ryan, Matt ATL QB 297.9 18.62Schaub, Matt HOU QB 295.7 18.48Freeman, Josh TBB QB 295.3 18.46To me, any of those top 6 guys are interchangeable in your lineup. The only one with a significant diff in PPG is Vick. But you aren't quite right in saying Rivers is closer to Freeman than he is to Rodgers.Rodgers is valued higher, I agree, But I'd take Rivers and Bradshaw for Rodgers any day..
 
'Instinctive said:
It was a good deal for both sides. Calvin giver still has Andre and G Jennings, but his only back was Peterson. Calvin getter still has Foster and Rice (I think) and improved at WR.
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ADP owner also has Blount, MBush, PThomas. Foster, Rice owner also had Best, Addai. Basically 2 best teams in the league at least as far as lineups (and ignoring the fact a 3rd team has won 2 of the 3 years).
 
'thriftyrocker said:
'Instinctive said:
It was a good deal for both sides. Calvin giver still has Andre and G Jennings, but his only back was Peterson. Calvin getter still has Foster and Rice (I think) and improved at WR.
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ADP owner also has Blount, MBush, PThomas. Foster, Rice owner also had Best, Addai. Basically 2 best teams in the league at least as far as lineups (and ignoring the fact a 3rd team has won 2 of the 3 years).
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I preferred the other team's starters pre-this-trade. Wallace, TB Mike, Austin plus CJ4.24 and McCoy? Boom. Now, I think the Calvin owner is the best lineup, the above team I just mentioned is now 4th best, and some guy traded for Charles and McFadden with Rivers - he's third best in my eyes ;)Full disclosure: I traded away Calvin as soon as I took over the team because I didn't like him (3 years ago). Nobody has any idea how bad I wish I hadn't - my team would be the favorite with Calvin still on it.
 
Team A sends:

Rashard Mendenhall

Isaac Redman

Marques Colston

to Team B for:

Dez Bryant

Robert Meachem

Bernard Scott

2013 2nd round pick

2013 3rd round pick

 
'thriftyrocker said:
'Instinctive said:
Team A sends:

Rashard Mendenhall

Isaac Redman

Marques Colston

to Team B for:

Dez Bryant

Robert Meachem

Bernard Scott

2013 2nd round pick

2013 3rd round pick
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Think you're lucking out that this is an illegal trade.
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I'm lucking out?And apparently the picks are too far in the future per a league rule - but I guess the deal still helps people gauge value since both owners did agree to it.

 
10 team 2QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLEX PPR

Team A gives

Newton

Ponder

Team B gives

Mike Wallace

Donald Brown

 
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'thriftyrocker said:
'AYBABTUS said:
10 team 2QB PPR Team A gives Vick HenneKnoxTeam B givesDaltonPalmerQuizz RodgersHarvin
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Really terrible trade right there.
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Agreed Vick is by far the best player acquired, and Harvin is a distant second, with Knox a distant third. Harvin is closer to Knox than Vick though. Team A is crazy if you ask me.Then again, if team A has a bunch of other crap and only Vick, it looks like the right idea executed poorly.
 
'Instinctive said:
'sihaokills said:
'AYBABTUS said:
10 team 2QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLEX PPR Team A givesNewtonPonderTeam B givesWallaceDonald Brown
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I think Wallace should get a little more than that
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Is there a different Wallace, who isn't Mike, who that might be? Otherwise that's an awful deal, I think, even in a 2QB with PPR.
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Two top 25 dynasty QB's that could turn into top 10-15 dynasty QB's in the future. I'm not sure if you play in any 2 QB leagues, but that is not a bad deal. Actually, considering Brown's value isn't that high, there is no way I move both QB's for Wallace in a start 2 QB league. Especially one that only starts 30-40 WR's.
 
'Go Blue said:
'Instinctive said:
'sihaokills said:
'AYBABTUS said:
10 team 2QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLEX PPR Team A givesNewtonPonderTeam B givesWallaceDonald Brown
Click to expand...
I think Wallace should get a little more than that
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Is there a different Wallace, who isn't Mike, who that might be? Otherwise that's an awful deal, I think, even in a 2QB with PPR.
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Two top 25 dynasty QB's that could turn into top 10-15 dynasty QB's in the future. I'm not sure if you play in any 2 QB leagues, but that is not a bad deal. Actually, considering Brown's value isn't that high, there is no way I move both QB's for Wallace in a start 2 QB league. Especially one that only starts 30-40 WR's.
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Ehh. I guess if you're that high on Ponder/Newton. I wouldn't want Ponder. At all.And I have played 2QB leagues.
 
'Go Blue said:
'Instinctive said:
'sihaokills said:
'AYBABTUS said:
10 team 2QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLEX PPR Team A givesNewtonPonderTeam B givesWallaceDonald Brown
Click to expand...
I think Wallace should get a little more than that
Click to expand...
Is there a different Wallace, who isn't Mike, who that might be? Otherwise that's an awful deal, I think, even in a 2QB with PPR.
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Two top 25 dynasty QB's that could turn into top 10-15 dynasty QB's in the future. I'm not sure if you play in any 2 QB leagues, but that is not a bad deal. Actually, considering Brown's value isn't that high, there is no way I move both QB's for Wallace in a start 2 QB league. Especially one that only starts 30-40 WR's.
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:goodposting: In a 2qb league this is a slaughter for the team getting newton/ponder.
 
'Instinctive said:
'Go Blue said:
'Instinctive said:
'sihaokills said:
'AYBABTUS said:
10 team 2QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLEX PPR Team A givesNewtonPonderTeam B givesWallaceDonald Brown
Click to expand...
I think Wallace should get a little more than that
Click to expand...
Is there a different Wallace, who isn't Mike, who that might be? Otherwise that's an awful deal, I think, even in a 2QB with PPR.
Click to expand...
Two top 25 dynasty QB's that could turn into top 10-15 dynasty QB's in the future. I'm not sure if you play in any 2 QB leagues, but that is not a bad deal. Actually, considering Brown's value isn't that high, there is no way I move both QB's for Wallace in a start 2 QB league. Especially one that only starts 30-40 WR's.
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Ehh. I guess if you're that high on Ponder/Newton. I wouldn't want Ponder. At all.And I have played 2QB leagues.
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Yeah, I'm all for the 'accumulate QBs strategy' in start 2 QB leagues (as evidenced by my Rodgers trade a few pages ago), but Newton and Ponder just don't do it for me. I would pass on them in rookie drafts for less than Wallace, TBH.
 
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