Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
I think you can bank on it.'JAA said:
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*** 2012 Official Philadelphia Eagles Post Mortem Thread *** (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Insein
- Start date
loose circuits
Footballguy
Jerel Worthy from Michigan State?
redBourne
Footballguy
Dude, I love reading your posts. I had a feeling ASam was a forgone conclusion.
Polish Hammer
made of glass
I wonder what we can get for him. 3rd?
delusional
Footballguy
I don't know. What happens if Awesomeguy or DRC gets hurt? They are pretty thin in the talent area at CB so going after a CB in the draft in a must i think'JAA said:
Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
With his salary, I think that's the most they could realistically hope for.
JetMaxx
Footballguy
Worthy is a first round pick. It's more likely to be Mike Martin, DT from Michigan. He had a big Senior Bowl Week so would certainly fit the profile of someone the Eagles would get giddy about. Followed it up with a pretty good Combine.
Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
He's liked him before the combine though. We were watching a Michigan game on TV (I think it was OSU they were playing) and he was just gushing about him even than. I think his combine performance will be the thing to get them to grab him. We're not talking about a first rounder here though, and he still needs to sell Andy on him as well.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I would be surprised if we got a 3rd rounder for Asante. I would think we'll get a later pick (5th rounder most likely) that's conditional up to a 4th or 3rd if we're lucky.
redBourne
Footballguy
This makes me think that we wouldn't trade him outright for a pick. We'd package him and manipulate the trade to get more out of the deal than he's worth.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
You also didn't know why we spent so much time discussing Donovan McNabb trades either.I would personally applaud the move if it happened, but I don't see it happening. In fact, I see it as such a long shot I really don't know why it's getting as much run as it appears to be.Why not?Are we really still talking about us trading for RGIII?
Ugh...let's not set ourselves up for disappointment. I can't wait to hear all the naysayers on WIP screaming how we "should have traded up for RGIII" when we don't.
Yuo would have a while for that...if he starts going all Cam Newtown in about 8 months then maybe
No one thought Vick would be an Eagle.No one thought Nnamdi would be an Eagle.
And its fun to discuss the Eagles future beyond Vick, because that guy isn't currently on the roster and needs to be soon.
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Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
Just got word. They're tagging D-Jax before end of business day today.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Any word on if theyre having any serious discussions about dealing him?
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Makes sense. I'm still worried about him going forward, but if we're keeping him I would rather on a 1-year deal than a long-term commitment. Let him (re)prove himself and get paid well in the process.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
OK...so trade D-Jax for a 2...Asante for a 3 or 4 and then sign Mike Wallace and add one of those poison pills in his deal...who's in?
JetMaxx
Footballguy
I can think of better ways to allocate high draft picks and $ resources than to spend a 1 and 3 and the cap space for Wallace. He's good but I'll pass.
SouthJersey
Footballguy
Wallace ain't worth the 1st and 3rd we'd have to give up to sign him.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Danny Watkins and Curtis Marsh are who we picked in those rounds last year. If they want to throw, throw, throw then why not? You'd still have 2 second round picks and 2 fourth round picks with D-Jax and Asante to trade.
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SouthJersey
Footballguy
How much of an upgrade is Wallace over DJax that it's worth giving up a 1st and 3rd? DJax and Wallace are both gonna end up with the same type of contract.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
IMO Wallace is better then Desean in pretty much every way. D-Jax is a one trick poney. And I disagree that they end up with the same deals we'll just have to wait and see with that though.
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Donny Loved Bowling
Footballguy
Poison pills are no longer allowed, I heard.
JAA
Footballguy
What motivation does he have to play that he didnt last year? Cause he is making bank for 1 year? Players was signing bonuses, not 1 year deals
JAA
Footballguy
concussions? personality?
dhockster
Footballguy
Signing Restricted FA's only costs you a first round pick, you no longer lose a 3rd as well. That is why somebody (not necessarily the Eagles) willprobably sign him away from the Steelers. They will make Wallace an offer the Steelers can't match. I think this especially true this year when there is carry over cap money from last year to spend.
JetMaxx
Footballguy
So looking at the franchise tag from Djax's perspective, why not just sign it ASAP and call the Eagles' bluff? From what DH has said, and surely his reps know it, there is little to no chance he gets the big deal from the Eagles. Signing it gives him a huge raise to $9.4mil guaranteed and seemingly screws the Eagles because that money would have to be applied to this years cap, trade or not IIRC. Then in the event of a trade, he can demand an extension from the new team, garnering the additional guaranteed money. I must admit I'm not up on the very latest re; the Bargaining Agreement so tell me if I'm off base here but it would seem to be precarious for the Eagles if he were to sign the offer.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Poison pills were outlawed, but that doesn't mean a team can't offer a player a big roster bonus in Year One, effectively creating a "poison pill" for cap strapped teams.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
With Jackson getting the tag and no long-term commitment (yet), my train of thought went something like "hmmm, Vick can go after '12, McCoy's in his final year, Assante's as good as gone, Reid will be looking for an extension..."
I started to wonder who's on the hook for big money beyond 2012? Nnamdi comes to mind and maybe Peters and Cole. Any big contracts I'm missing?
A lack of $$ commitments could facilitate a 2013 house cleaning.
I started to wonder who's on the hook for big money beyond 2012? Nnamdi comes to mind and maybe Peters and Cole. Any big contracts I'm missing?
A lack of $$ commitments could facilitate a 2013 house cleaning.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
CentralPA
Footballguy
Thus this IS the offical Do or diiiiiiiiie season amirite?http://www.eaglescap.com/next.html
Insein
Footballguy
One would think. But this is the Eagles still. HEard a blurb on the radio today that suggested Reid wanted JPP in the draft that year over graham but was overruled by Roseman. Not sure how accurate that is or if its revisionist history but its interesting to see who is holding the strings right now on the personnel. I personally feel the last 2 years drafts have been the worst in the Andy Reid era. If that was all Roseman and little Reid, than maybe andy can be let off the hook a bit.Thus this IS the offical Do or diiiiiiiiie season amirite?
SouthJersey
Footballguy
I have a hard time believing that Roseman would have the pull to overrule Andy on what to do with their 1st round pick in Roseman's 1st ever draft as a GM.One would think. But this is the Eagles still. HEard a blurb on the radio today that suggested Reid wanted JPP in the draft that year over graham but was overruled by Roseman. Not sure how accurate that is or if its revisionist history but its interesting to see who is holding the strings right now on the personnel. I personally feel the last 2 years drafts have been the worst in the Andy Reid era. If that was all Roseman and little Reid, than maybe andy can be let off the hook a bit.Thus this IS the offical Do or diiiiiiiiie season amirite?
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Tend to agree. Jeff and Joe tell us Andy has final say on all personnel decisions every chance they get. True or not, they always put it on Andy.I have a hard time believing that Roseman would have the pull to overrule Andy on what to do with their 1st round pick in Roseman's 1st ever draft as a GM.One would think. But this is the Eagles still. HEard a blurb on the radio today that suggested Reid wanted JPP in the draft that year over graham but was overruled by Roseman. Not sure how accurate that is or if its revisionist history but its interesting to see who is holding the strings right now on the personnel. I personally feel the last 2 years drafts have been the worst in the Andy Reid era. If that was all Roseman and little Reid, than maybe andy can be let off the hook a bit.Thus this IS the offical Do or diiiiiiiiie season amirite?
Sabertooth
Footballguy
So is Desean Jackson getting tagged a plus or a minus for Maclin?
Amused to Death
Footballguy
This blog post alludes to the same thingAs with all big Eagles decisions, there’s also the Reid factor. If you believe that Andy Reid is under pressure to win this year, and that Michael Vick is under pressure to win this year, with his contract guarantees running out after 2012, then it makes sense to give them both the receiving weapon they have so often utilized so well. If it doesn’t work, a one-year tag lets the Eagles cut ties with Reid, Vick and even DeSean after the season and build a new offense in a different direction.
CentralPA
Footballguy
For a PPR league.....i'd say a plus since DeSean keeps the corners and safety's back off the line of scrimmage opening the middle of the field. With Maclin's route running (I also heard he has bulked up) he'll be a catching machine and he should get his fair share of TDs. Standard scoring leagues I don't see his value moving any differently with this news.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I'd say the sky is the limit for him with or without Jackson. He had a very promising rookie campaign and was pretty much robbed of his entire off-season due to an Illness that they couldnt diagnose the following year. I think he'll be very under the radar and could post top 15 numbers in any league.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Skins didn't tag Landry. I wonder if he's someone we'd target.
One would think. But this is the Eagles still.
HEard a blurb on the radio today that suggested Reid wanted JPP in the draft that year over graham but was overruled by Roseman. Not sure how accurate that is or if its revisionist history but its interesting to see who is holding the strings right now on the personnel. I personally feel the last 2 years drafts have been the worst in the Andy Reid era. If that was all Roseman and little Reid, than maybe andy can be let off the hook a bit.
First I think it takes three years to know how good or bad a draft was but the 2010 draft had two injuries with Graham and Allen so we aren't sure how they will pan out just yet. Chaney was a great pick for the 7th round and Coleman is a very solid 3rd safety which is all you can ask from a late round pick. Im not overly impressed with Cooper but he seems like a decent role player and Harbor has decent skills just has Celek ahead of him. I wouldn't write that draft of just yet. As for this year its way to early but Watkins improved a lot as the year went on and I think he could be a really good OG. The also got Kelce who looked pretty good in Mudd's system and I wait to write off Jarrett and Marsh for now.
HEard a blurb on the radio today that suggested Reid wanted JPP in the draft that year over graham but was overruled by Roseman. Not sure how accurate that is or if its revisionist history but its interesting to see who is holding the strings right now on the personnel. I personally feel the last 2 years drafts have been the worst in the Andy Reid era. If that was all Roseman and little Reid, than maybe andy can be let off the hook a bit.
First I think it takes three years to know how good or bad a draft was but the 2010 draft had two injuries with Graham and Allen so we aren't sure how they will pan out just yet. Chaney was a great pick for the 7th round and Coleman is a very solid 3rd safety which is all you can ask from a late round pick. Im not overly impressed with Cooper but he seems like a decent role player and Harbor has decent skills just has Celek ahead of him. I wouldn't write that draft of just yet. As for this year its way to early but Watkins improved a lot as the year went on and I think he could be a really good OG. The also got Kelce who looked pretty good in Mudd's system and I wait to write off Jarrett and Marsh for now.
delusional
Footballguy
face it, their past few drafts havent been good at all & development has been shoddy at best
Jason Wood
Zoo York
In what might shock you delusional, I agree with you. Here are our last five drafts:2011 1 1 23 23 Danny Watkins G Baylor2011 2 2 22 54 Jaiquawn Jarrett DB Temple2011 3 3 26 90 Curtis Marsh DB Utah State2011 4 4 19 116 Casey Matthews LB Oregon2011 5 4 23 120 Alex Henery K Nebraska2011 6 5 30 161 Julian Vandervele G Iowa2011 7 6 26 191 Jason Kelce C Cincinnati2011 8 6 28 193 Brian Rolle LB Ohio State2011 9 7 34 237 Greg Lloyd LB Connecticut2011 10 7 37 240 Stanley Havili RB USC2010 1 1 13 13 Brandon Graham LB Michigan2010 2 2 5 37 Nate Allen DB South Florida2010 3 3 22 86 Daniel Te'p-Nesheim DE Washington2010 4 4 7 105 Trevard Lindley DB Kentucky2010 5 4 23 121 Keenan Clayton LB Oklahoma2010 6 4 24 122 Mike Kafka QB Northwestern2010 7 4 27 125 Clay Harbor TE Missouri State2010 8 5 3 134 Ricky Sapp DE Clemson2010 9 5 28 159 Riley Cooper WR Florida2010 10 6 31 200 Charles Scott RB Louisiana State2010 11 7 13 220 Jamar Chaney LB Mississippi State2010 12 7 36 243 Jeffrey Owens DT Georgia2010 13 7 37 244 Kurt Coleman DB Ohio State2009 1 1 19 19 Jeremy Maclin WR Missouri2009 2 2 21 53 LeSean McCoy RB Pittsburgh2009 3 5 17 153 Cornelius Ingram TE Florida2009 4 5 21 157 Victor Harris DB Virginia Tech2009 5 5 23 159 Fenuki Tupou T Oregon2009 6 6 21 194 Brandon Gibson WR Washington State2009 7 7 4 213 Paul Fanaika G Arizona State2009 8 7 21 230 Moise Fokou LB Maryland2008 1 2 16 47 Trevor Laws DT Notre Dame2008 2 2 18 49 DeSean Jackson WR California2008 3 3 17 80 Bryan Smith DE McNeese State2008 4 4 10 109 Michael McGlynn G Pittsburgh2008 5 4 18 117 Quintin Demps DB Texas-El Paso2008 6 4 32 131 Jack Ikegwuonu DB Wisconsin2008 7 6 18 184 Michael Gibson G California2008 8 6 34 200 Joe Mays LB North Dakota State2008 9 6 37 203 Andrew Studebaker DE Wheaton2008 10 7 23 230 King Dunlap T Auburn2007 1 2 4 36 Kevin Kolb QB Houston2007 2 2 25 57 Victor Abiamiri DE Notre Dame2007 3 3 24 87 Stewart Bradley LB Nebraska2007 4 3 27 90 Tony Hunt RB Penn State2007 5 5 22 159 C.J. Gaddis DB Clemson2007 6 5 25 162 Brent Celek TE Cincinnati2007 7 6 27 201 Rashad Barksdale DB Albany State2007 8 7 26 236 Nate Ilaoa RB HawaiiIn five years we've drafted three impact players (Shady McCoy, Maclin and DJax), a traded commodity (Kolb) and a few low end starters (that we would all admit could be replaced by many alternatives for the better). That's pretty ridiculous for an organization with the Eagles reputation.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
The current Eagles reputation was built with Ray Rhodes hold-overs, Tom Modrak & Jim Johnson on board. None of which exist today. The success level has declined as each of those pieces have left.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
After the 2010 draft I said that it may have been the worst one of all-time...and its heading that way.
Insein
Footballguy
The draft is about 2 things; adding impact players and creating solid depth. The Eagles have added depth. I'm willing to admit guys like Jamar Cheney, Brian rolle, Clay harbour, etc were good gets where they got them and have proven they can step in and be competent at the position.
Where they have failed miserably is the star power, specifically on defense. While on offense its true they have added DJax, Shady and Maclin, defensively they have a mental block as to what type of player has star potential. Picking guys like Brandon Graham over JPP or settling for Nate Allen in the 2nd when they could have had Earl Thomas in the first. There's no imagination. They have a formula that says player x weighs this much, height is this much and he runs this fast. He can play at x position. There's a big difference between "can play" and "owns the role." There doesn't seem to be any scouting instinct on what guys just have "IT." Whether thats the scouts being bad at their job or the top brass ignoring their scout's opinions for their own, it is a problem. They have no defensive minds in the organization that can identify players with star potential.
Where they have failed miserably is the star power, specifically on defense. While on offense its true they have added DJax, Shady and Maclin, defensively they have a mental block as to what type of player has star potential. Picking guys like Brandon Graham over JPP or settling for Nate Allen in the 2nd when they could have had Earl Thomas in the first. There's no imagination. They have a formula that says player x weighs this much, height is this much and he runs this fast. He can play at x position. There's a big difference between "can play" and "owns the role." There doesn't seem to be any scouting instinct on what guys just have "IT." Whether thats the scouts being bad at their job or the top brass ignoring their scout's opinions for their own, it is a problem. They have no defensive minds in the organization that can identify players with star potential.
Shane Falco
Footballguy
babydemon90
Footballguy
Or maybe, the Eagles suck at developing young defensive players, and if they had drafted differently, the young players still would not have panned out. Nothing says the Eagles would have been able to put JPP in the same position to succeed as the Giants have.
SouthJersey
Footballguy
With the Foster and Marshawn deals signed...how much do you think Shady gets?
And what impact do you think the Stevie extension has on DJax?
And what impact do you think the Stevie extension has on DJax?
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I think the Lynch and Foster deals are encouraging for setting a fair market value, but McCoy is probably going to argue that Foster took a discount and wait to see whether Rice gets a new deal. Hopefully though cooler heads prevail and it sets a baseline for the terms of a contract, which is $20+mm in guarantees and $30mm or so over the first three years of the deal. As to DJax and Johnson, I'm not sure as much about that one unless Jackson has had a major change of heart. I'm guessing Jackson envisions himself as worth Megatron/Andre/LFitz type money -- which we all know isn't going to happen from us, or just about anyone.
JAA
Footballguy
Id like someone to find ANY good Eagles draft ...
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