coolnerd
Footballguy
He was the best offensive player for TCU this year and has had nice consistent production despite QB situation there. Already graduated.
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*** 2013 NFL Scouting Combine Thread *** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
beef
Footballguy
i think its deep. The time to buy rookie picks was last week when everyone hated this draft class. Value will will begin to rise now.
cstu
Footballguy
196 at his height is very low. Not a lot of comps out there for him, the only one I have is Sidney Rice with less reliable hands.
cstu
Footballguy
It's deep, but I'm still not impressed by the talent at the top. Picks 1-3 will be some combo of Lacy/Gio/Patterson but I don't think there much drop-off like there normally is. I can go about 20 deep of players I like, at least 10 of which are WR's.
EBF
Footballguy
IMO the story of the draft is the WR group. Tons of quality there and almost all of the guys had a good enough showing today not to kill their stock. There's something for everyone in this group, whether you want a speed guy, a possesion/RAC type of receiver, or a jack of all trades. There's about 10 guys that I'd feel pretty good about getting for my FF team. No mortal locks, but lots of solid 2nd round talent. I don't think the other positions are that strong. At RB you've really only got 4-5 guys who have featured back potential IMO. And Lacy is the only one that I think has real first round potential. TE has a really good prospect in Eifert and then a couple good 2nd-3rd round types. QB is meh.
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Davis is very overrated, not surprised he ran a good time. I still wouldn't touch him in the 1st round of a rookie draft.
cstu
Footballguy
Give him a massive OL then I'd consider it but he has no moves to speak of and gets brought down too easy for a guy his size.
Just posted this in my thread, people are forgetting about him. He's like TO: great athlete, good size, not the greatest hands.
Exactly. I also question his vision, he fumbles, and has a huge injury concern.Give him a massive OL then I'd consider it but he has no moves to speak of and gets brought down too easy for a guy his size.
Time Kibitzer
Footballguy
He's 227lbs and ran a 4.37, he doesn't need moves. And I don't get why some say his vision sucks, watching some clips of him on youtube and his vision looks fine to me. He reminds me of McFadden in a lot of ways, put Davis in the right cut-and-go type of offense and I think Davis would do really well.Give him a massive OL then I'd consider it but he has no moves to speak of and gets brought down too easy for a guy his size.
ZWK
Footballguy
With the combine numbers in, it still looks like Eddie Lacy is alone on the top tier for RBs. My second tier of RBs has 5 guys - I'm still trying to sort out the order, but the names are Knile Davis, Giovani Bernard, Marcus Lattimore, Christine Michael, and Johnathan Franklin. My next tier after that has DJ Harper, Le'Veon Bell, Zac Stacy, and maybe a couple other guys on the end (Barner? Ball? Ellington?).
That's relatively similar to what I had before the combine. The only changes in the top 7 are Montee Ball dropping out and some re-tiering/reshuffling (with Davis & Franklin moving up). Outside the top 7, Mike Gillislee, Cierre Wood, and probably Andre Ellington fell out of the Harper-Bell-Stacy tier, and I don't think anyone has risen to join that tier (except maybe Kenjon Barner).
That's relatively similar to what I had before the combine. The only changes in the top 7 are Montee Ball dropping out and some re-tiering/reshuffling (with Davis & Franklin moving up). Outside the top 7, Mike Gillislee, Cierre Wood, and probably Andre Ellington fell out of the Harper-Bell-Stacy tier, and I don't think anyone has risen to join that tier (except maybe Kenjon Barner).
He's a faster Shonn Greene that runs with a lot less power, made injury concerns, etc. People that get into this hype also got into the Mario Fannin and Chris Henry(Univ of Arizona hype). It takes more than athleticism to play in the NFL.He's 227lbs and ran a 4.37, he doesn't need moves. And I don't get why some say his vision sucks, watching some clips of him on youtube and his vision looks fine to me. He reminds me of McFadden in a lot of ways, put Davis in the right cut-and-go type of offense and I think Davis would do really well.Give him a massive OL then I'd consider it but he has no moves to speak of and gets brought down too easy for a guy his size.
bengalbuck
Footballguy
Agree, and he's more fragile than Ryan Mathews. He has broken the same collarbone twice. He has broken the same ankle twice. And had a lot of ligament injuries along the way as well.He's a faster Shonn Greene that runs with a lot less power, made injury concerns, etc. People that get into this hype also got into the Mario Fannin and Chris Henry(Univ of Arizona hype). It takes more than athleticism to play in the NFL.He's 227lbs and ran a 4.37, he doesn't need moves. And I don't get why some say his vision sucks, watching some clips of him on youtube and his vision looks fine to me. He reminds me of McFadden in a lot of ways, put Davis in the right cut-and-go type of offense and I think Davis would do really well.Give him a massive OL then I'd consider it but he has no moves to speak of and gets brought down too easy for a guy his size.
werdnoynek
Footballguy
6.69 3 cone too... best out of the RB's. interesting...
Very underutilized this past year at A&M. Looks fully recovered from the ACL, interesting to see what the NFL says. He was also a pretty solid prospect overall.6.69 3 cone too... best out of the RB's. interesting...
werdnoynek
Footballguy
He's a faster Shonn Greene that runs with a lot less power, made injury concerns, etc. People that get into this hype also got into the Mario Fannin and Chris Henry(Univ of Arizona hype). It takes more than athleticism to play in the NFL.He's 227lbs and ran a 4.37, he doesn't need moves. And I don't get why some say his vision sucks, watching some clips of him on youtube and his vision looks fine to me. He reminds me of McFadden in a lot of ways, put Davis in the right cut-and-go type of offense and I think Davis would do really well.Give him a massive OL then I'd consider it but he has no moves to speak of and gets brought down too easy for a guy his size.
he may not have needed moves in the NCAA, but he will if he wants to survive the NFL. he's already shown to be fragile, you think he'll be able to just run fast in straight lines and take NFL hits? 
Time Kibitzer
Footballguy
Not in the least. Neither of those two did anything in college, Kniles Davis on the other hand led all RBs in the SEC in rushing yards in 2010 and looked good doing it; that's a pretty significant difference.He's a faster Shonn Greene that runs with a lot less power, made injury concerns, etc. People that get into this hype also got into the Mario Fannin and Chris Henry(Univ of Arizona hype). It takes more than athleticism to play in the NFL.He's 227lbs and ran a 4.37, he doesn't need moves. And I don't get why some say his vision sucks, watching some clips of him on youtube and his vision looks fine to me. He reminds me of McFadden in a lot of ways, put Davis in the right cut-and-go type of offense and I think Davis would do really well.Give him a massive OL then I'd consider it but he has no moves to speak of and gets brought down too easy for a guy his size.
ZWK
Footballguy
If I was just going by what Knile Davis did on the field in 2010 and what he did at the combine, then he would be in my top tier with Eddie Lacy (and I'm not sure about the order). All the other stuff (injuries, an awful season in 2012, etc.) knocks him down a tier, but given the importance of upside he may still end up as my #2 RB.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Yeah, lots of RBs run in a straight line on the way to 1300 yds vs the SECHe's a faster Shonn Greene that runs with a lot less power, made injury concerns, etc. People that get into this hype also got into the Mario Fannin and Chris Henry(Univ of Arizona hype). It takes more than athleticism to play in the NFL.He's 227lbs and ran a 4.37, he doesn't need moves. And I don't get why some say his vision sucks, watching some clips of him on youtube and his vision looks fine to me. He reminds me of McFadden in a lot of ways, put Davis in the right cut-and-go type of offense and I think Davis would do really well.Give him a massive OL then I'd consider it but he has no moves to speak of and gets brought down too easy for a guy his size.
ETA--You make it sound as if he got all those yards by breaking through and running for huge gains because of his speed. Even if you don't want to acknowledge it from just watching him play, here are his game logs for that year:2010 Game Logs
He had 4 games total with a long run (45, 71, 70, and 62). The rest of the games had long runs in the 20's. Against LSU, where he put up 152 yards, his longest run was 14 yards. So he basically just kept running in a straight line for positive gains over and over? He put up 139 on Ohio State with a long run of 25. He put up 110 against South Carolina with a long run of 21. In other words, he didn't rack up 1300 yds in the SEC by breaking off long run after long run due to his speed and gaping holes. You put up those kinds of numbers against those defenses without the long runs by at least having SOME ability and not just being able to run a 4.37. Especially as a sophomore.
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He didn't look like a shadow of himself this past season, which in reality is what matters. If we were going by 2011, then Marcus Lattimore is RB1, but we're not.Not in the least. Neither of those two did anything in college, Kniles Davis on the other hand led all RBs in the SEC in rushing yards in 2010 and looked good doing it; that's a pretty significant difference.He's a faster Shonn Greene that runs with a lot less power, made injury concerns, etc. People that get into this hype also got into the Mario Fannin and Chris Henry(Univ of Arizona hype). It takes more than athleticism to play in the NFL.He's 227lbs and ran a 4.37, he doesn't need moves. And I don't get why some say his vision sucks, watching some clips of him on youtube and his vision looks fine to me. He reminds me of McFadden in a lot of ways, put Davis in the right cut-and-go type of offense and I think Davis would do really well.Give him a massive OL then I'd consider it but he has no moves to speak of and gets brought down too easy for a guy his size.
Shonn Greene ran for 1850 his final season in the Big Ten, pretty sure we can agree he doesn't have much wiggle.Yeah, lots of RBs run in a straight line on the way to 1300 yds vs the SECHe's a faster Shonn Greene that runs with a lot less power, made injury concerns, etc. People that get into this hype also got into the Mario Fannin and Chris Henry(Univ of Arizona hype). It takes more than athleticism to play in the NFL.He's 227lbs and ran a 4.37, he doesn't need moves. And I don't get why some say his vision sucks, watching some clips of him on youtube and his vision looks fine to me. He reminds me of McFadden in a lot of ways, put Davis in the right cut-and-go type of offense and I think Davis would do really well.Give him a massive OL then I'd consider it but he has no moves to speak of and gets brought down too easy for a guy his size.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Can't really help it if you don't see a difference between Greene and Davis when watching them nor if you think the Big Ten is the same as the SEC defensively. Couple that with Greene running a 4.62 and he's not remotely the athlete that Davis is. Again, it's not as if Davis is coming out of nowhere. He was considered the #2 prospect, at worse, after his sophomore year, in the country. He's not just an unknown workout warrior that doesn't match what he did on the field before his injury in 2011.Shonn Greene ran for 1850 his final season in the Big Ten, pretty sure we can agree he doesn't have much wiggle.Yeah, lots of RBs run in a straight line on the way to 1300 yds vs the SECHe's a faster Shonn Greene that runs with a lot less power, made injury concerns, etc. People that get into this hype also got into the Mario Fannin and Chris Henry(Univ of Arizona hype). It takes more than athleticism to play in the NFL.He's 227lbs and ran a 4.37, he doesn't need moves. And I don't get why some say his vision sucks, watching some clips of him on youtube and his vision looks fine to me. He reminds me of McFadden in a lot of ways, put Davis in the right cut-and-go type of offense and I think Davis would do really well.Give him a massive OL then I'd consider it but he has no moves to speak of and gets brought down too easy for a guy his size.
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Time Kibitzer
Footballguy
As ZWK put it well earlier, his injuries and lack of recent success are troubling, but even when taking that into account, Kniles has upside that few RBs in this draft class have, which makes him a highly rated prospect in the eyes of some who rather swing for the fences then take someone doomed for mediocrity like Jonathan Franklin, like myself. Although that could change depending on where these guys end up.He didn't look like a shadow of himself this past season, which in reality is what matters. If we were going by 2011, then Marcus Lattimore is RB1, but we're not.Not in the least. Neither of those two did anything in college, Kniles Davis on the other hand led all RBs in the SEC in rushing yards in 2010 and looked good doing it; that's a pretty significant difference.He's a faster Shonn Greene that runs with a lot less power, made injury concerns, etc. People that get into this hype also got into the Mario Fannin and Chris Henry(Univ of Arizona hype). It takes more than athleticism to play in the NFL.He's 227lbs and ran a 4.37, he doesn't need moves. And I don't get why some say his vision sucks, watching some clips of him on youtube and his vision looks fine to me. He reminds me of McFadden in a lot of ways, put Davis in the right cut-and-go type of offense and I think Davis would do really well.Give him a massive OL then I'd consider it but he has no moves to speak of and gets brought down too easy for a guy his size.
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EBF
Footballguy
Davis is a straight line back like McFadden, except stronger and more compact. The ability to make people miss isn't something that I remember seeing a lot of from him even in his heyday, but when he got a crease he was deadly. The problem with backs who struggle to avoid contact is that they tend to get injured, even if they're strong and fast. McFadden is one example. Christine Michael and Ryan Mathews also have a bit of that in their game. Davis moved way up my board with his showing at this combine, but I tend to prefer the elusive type of back over the pure speedster and my guess is that he will go higher in most of my leagues than where I'd be willing to roll the dice on him. The upside is pretty alluring though. The size/speed ratio trumps just about anyone in recent memory. In terms of looking at 40 time as it relates to BMI, I'd guess that MJD and Stewart are the only guys in recent years who were in the same ballpark.
If you look above in these quotes, I say " He's a faster Shonn Greene, with a lot less power, major injury concerns" Yes, Davis was a much better prospect in 2011, but it's 2 years later, many injuries later, more film later. Davis hasn't looked like the same player on the field, he got beat out by Dennis Johnson(a player not invited to the combine) in 2012.Can't really help it if you don't see a difference between Greene and Davis when watching them nor if you think the Big Ten is the same as the SEC defensively. Couple that with Greene running a 4.62 and his not remotely the athlete that Davis is. Again, it's not as if Davis is coming out of nowhere. He was considered the #2 prospect, at worse, after his sophomore year, in the country. He's not just an unknown workout warrior that doesn't match what he did on the field before his injury in 2011.Shonn Greene ran for 1850 his final season in the Big Ten, pretty sure we can agree he doesn't have much wiggle.Yeah, lots of RBs run in a straight line on the way to 1300 yds vs the SECHe's a faster Shonn Greene that runs with a lot less power, made injury concerns, etc. People that get into this hype also got into the Mario Fannin and Chris Henry(Univ of Arizona hype). It takes more than athleticism to play in the NFL.He's 227lbs and ran a 4.37, he doesn't need moves. And I don't get why some say his vision sucks, watching some clips of him on youtube and his vision looks fine to me. He reminds me of McFadden in a lot of ways, put Davis in the right cut-and-go type of offense and I think Davis would do really well.Give him a massive OL then I'd consider it but he has no moves to speak of and gets brought down too easy for a guy his size.
werdnoynek
Footballguy
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Gio Bernard had a pretty nice all around day. Two consistent low 4.5 40 times, top 5 times in the 20 yd and 60 yd shuttle, solid times in the 3 cone and broad jump, and 19 reps. It matches up with what he showed on the field. It would be nice to see if he can gain 5 lbs of muscle, especially down low in the trunks. His body type isn't quite ideal.
jurb26
Footballguy
Davis is a one cut runner that would thrive in system like HOU IMO. He isn't a guy who will create a ton of yes on his own. He has good vision, runs with great power and is obviously explosive.
Dmc and Felix fooled an entire professional league with the same gimmick.Yeah, lots of RBs run in a straight line on the way to 1300 yds vs the SECHe's a faster Shonn Greene that runs with a lot less power, made injury concerns, etc. People that get into this hype also got into the Mario Fannin and Chris Henry(Univ of Arizona hype). It takes more than athleticism to play in the NFL.He's 227lbs and ran a 4.37, he doesn't need moves. And I don't get why some say his vision sucks, watching some clips of him on youtube and his vision looks fine to me. He reminds me of McFadden in a lot of ways, put Davis in the right cut-and-go type of offense and I think Davis would do really well.Give him a massive OL then I'd consider it but he has no moves to speak of and gets brought down too easy for a guy his size.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Don't bother with EBF on that particular debate.
Kleck
Footballguy
Agree... Looking at college stats and you'd probably pass right over him, which would be a huge mistake. Of all the backs in this class I think he has some of the most impressive runs. So smooth and natural. I'm a fan.
Mike Mayock's four weekend combine observations By Kareem CopelandAround the League Writer
NFL Scouting Combine: What we learned Day 4 By Gregg RosenthalAround The League Editor
INDIANAPOLIS -- Sunday is the biggest day here at the NFL Scouting Combine. Media availability continues, while the skill position players hit the field. Here's what we learnedon't call him "Honey Badger" anymore. Tyrann Mathieu is looking to shed his past. In a fascinating session with reporters, Mathieu talked about rehab, being humiliated and enjoying too many things other than football."My best friend right now is honesty," Mathieu said.Mathieu is short and not particularly fast. But Mike Mayock still believes he should find a home in the NFL as a slot cornerback.» Everywhere I go in Indianapolis, I hear someone say that the Alex Smith-to-Kansas City Chiefs deal is all but done. (Now CBS is reporting a deal is "effectively done" for Smith, but won't name the team.) Jacksonville Jaguars general manager Dave Caldwell said "not us" who has a deal in place in a text to the Florida Times-Union. NFL.com's Ian Rapoport says the Chiefs have showed the most interest. Mr. RapSheet also hears the Chiefs are particularly high on tackle Luke Joeckel as a No. 1 overall pick candidate.» Michigan's Denard Robinson helped himself. It wasn't just the fast 40-yard dash time either. Robinson looked much more comfortable catching the football. Mayock said he "loved" Robinson's effort on Sunday.» Greg Jennings might not want to sell his house just yet.» Three players took aim at Chris Johnson's official 40-yard record Sunday: Wide receivers Tavon Austin, Texas wide receiver Marquise Goodwin, and Auburn running back Onterio McCalebb. Goodwin wound up with a time of 4.27 seconds officially; Austin and Goodwin wound up seeing their unofficial times get downgraded to 4.34. Austin is a matchup nightmare that could sneak into the first round.Yes, Chris Johnson was worried. He's the combine's Mercury Morris.» What team will spend money early in free agency? Look to the Cleveland Browns.» One receiver that opened eyes: Texas A&M wide receiver Ryan Swope's 4.34 was a lot faster than expected.» I learned in my interview with Cincinnati Bengals coach Marvin Lewis that he has not closed the door on linebacker Rey Maualuga. Despite reports, Lewis said Maualuga was one of the guys "you've got to get back in the fold."» Alabama cornerback Dee Milliner will need shoulder surgery after the combine. He will perform his drills other than the bench press.» The more I hear, the less I expect Sean Smith to return to Miami. My strong feeling is that the Dolphins will spend the franchise tag on defensive tackle Randy Starks.» That's a wrap from the media room at the combine, but we're not done in Indianapolis just yet. I'll be writing and chatting on NFL.com/live from the field over the next two days. If I'm going to stay away from my wife and daughter this long, watching is the least you can do.
EBF
Footballguy
So elite that he finished dead last in YPC last year of the ~20 backs who had 200+ carries. Also ranked near the bottom of the league in DVOA. Objectively, he was one of the worst RBs in the NFL last year.And even if you're right about his talent, does it matter if he can't stay healthy? If Knile has one good year out of five then I doubt the people who spend top 10 rookie picks will be happy with him. I like Knile more than McFadden though. Much stronger. Looks a bit more elusive.'jurb26 said:
jurb26
Footballguy
You and objective....?
EBF
Footballguy
You're as guilty as me. You liked him coming out, so you see the positives.I didn't like him coming out, so I see the negatives. All the objective measures say he was awful last year. YPC. DVOA. That's why I used that word. Have it your way though.Maybe we can agree not to derail this thread with a useless McFadden debate.You and objective....?
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Really impressed with what I've seen from Matt Scott. Very athletic and throws an effortless deep ball.Maybe a bit of a project but could be a Day 2 steal.
ZWK
Footballguy
RBs who had a good combine (tiered):
Knile Davis - obviously
Christine Michael - pretty good speed for his size & dominated the drills
Michael Ford - longest broad jump, pretty good size & speed
Zac Stacy - pretty good speed for his size & did well at the drills
Mike James - pretty good speed for his size, bench
D.J. Harper - pretty good size & speed, bench
Johnathan Franklin - a bit bigger & faster than expected
Matthew Tucker - pretty good speed for his size
Player Height Weight Arms Hand 40 Time Bench Vert Broad 3-Cone S.ShuttleDavis, Knile 5100 227 29.75 8.63 4.37 31 33.5 121 6.96 4.38Michael, Christine 5100 220 31.50 9.38 4.54 27 43 125 6.69 4.02Ford, Michael 5094 210 30.38 9.00 4.50 25 38.5 130 6.87 4.25Stacy, Zac 5083 216 30.25 8.63 4.55 27 33 122 6.70 4.17James, Mike 5104 223 31.63 9.75 4.53 28 35 115 4.62Harper, D.J. 5091 211 31.00 10.25 4.52 23 33.5 120 7.07 4.35Franklin, Johnathan 5100 205 30.00 9.38 4.49 18 31.5 115 6.89 4.31Tucker, Matthew 6003 221 30.25 9.25 4.55 17 35.5 118 Average (prev yrs) 5107 213 4.56 19.7 34.6 117.1 7.08 4.25RBs who didn't do enough:Kenjon Barner - bigger than expected, and did pretty well in the drills, but to succeed as a speed back he'd need to be around 4.40, not over 4.50.
Mike Gillislee, Cierre Wood, and Andre Ellington - needed to run below 4.50 to make up for questions about size and/or production and did not.
Chris Thompson, Miguel Maysonet, and Spencer Ware - on the outside looking in, and didn't run a 40 so they couldn't get a boost.
RBs who blew it:
Stepfan Taylor, Ray Graham, Joseph Randle, Rex Burkhead, Jawan Jamison, Theo Riddick - too slow.
Knile Davis - obviously
Christine Michael - pretty good speed for his size & dominated the drills
Michael Ford - longest broad jump, pretty good size & speed
Zac Stacy - pretty good speed for his size & did well at the drills
Mike James - pretty good speed for his size, bench
D.J. Harper - pretty good size & speed, bench
Johnathan Franklin - a bit bigger & faster than expected
Matthew Tucker - pretty good speed for his size
Player Height Weight Arms Hand 40 Time Bench Vert Broad 3-Cone S.ShuttleDavis, Knile 5100 227 29.75 8.63 4.37 31 33.5 121 6.96 4.38Michael, Christine 5100 220 31.50 9.38 4.54 27 43 125 6.69 4.02Ford, Michael 5094 210 30.38 9.00 4.50 25 38.5 130 6.87 4.25Stacy, Zac 5083 216 30.25 8.63 4.55 27 33 122 6.70 4.17James, Mike 5104 223 31.63 9.75 4.53 28 35 115 4.62Harper, D.J. 5091 211 31.00 10.25 4.52 23 33.5 120 7.07 4.35Franklin, Johnathan 5100 205 30.00 9.38 4.49 18 31.5 115 6.89 4.31Tucker, Matthew 6003 221 30.25 9.25 4.55 17 35.5 118 Average (prev yrs) 5107 213 4.56 19.7 34.6 117.1 7.08 4.25RBs who didn't do enough:Kenjon Barner - bigger than expected, and did pretty well in the drills, but to succeed as a speed back he'd need to be around 4.40, not over 4.50.
Mike Gillislee, Cierre Wood, and Andre Ellington - needed to run below 4.50 to make up for questions about size and/or production and did not.
Chris Thompson, Miguel Maysonet, and Spencer Ware - on the outside looking in, and didn't run a 40 so they couldn't get a boost.
RBs who blew it:
Stepfan Taylor, Ray Graham, Joseph Randle, Rex Burkhead, Jawan Jamison, Theo Riddick - too slow.
ZWK
Footballguy
I was thinking that Barner had the potential to be a Chris Johnson / Charles / Spiller / Best type, so now that he's run a 4.52 instead of a sub 4.4 it's looking like a moot point.There ended up not being many positive surprises at RB this combine - Knile Davis was the biggest riser in my rankings, going from the bottom of tier 2b to the top of tier 2a.
loose circuits
Footballguy
Disagree about Burkhead. His 3 cone, broad jump, vert jump and 20 yd shuttle were close to the top. He just doesn't run in a straight line
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