squistion
Footballguy
I thought Streater outplayed him at the end of the season, but still a little suprised (maybe not since this was a vintage Al Davis pick).
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*** 2013 Oakland Raiders thread *** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter UnknownCoach
- Start date
kaso
Footballguy
Oh and Goodson is visiting the Jets. I was hoping the Raiders brought back both guys.
Why hasn't McClain been cut yet?
LawFitz
Footballguy
Losing Wheeler stinks. He was a real find, but honestly I can't give Reggie McKenzie any credit for that one since he only stayed one year. Great we helped him audition for the league.
Glad to see them cutting overpaid players like DHB and Huff. Neither guy is a worth a premium contract. But it seems like they are going to really blow up the roster and take the licks in 2013 and then set the table for 2014 and beyond in terms of cap.
At this point, I REALLY hope they trade Palmer. By the time this team is competitive, he's going to be even more washed.
Glad to see them cutting overpaid players like DHB and Huff. Neither guy is a worth a premium contract. But it seems like they are going to really blow up the roster and take the licks in 2013 and then set the table for 2014 and beyond in terms of cap.
At this point, I REALLY hope they trade Palmer. By the time this team is competitive, he's going to be even more washed.
UnknownCoach
Footballguy
They will probably wait until June 1 to cut McClain. That was reported a couple of months ago.
Wheeler signing with Miami. Going to be a whole new defense, especially if Kelly ends up getting cut. Other than Branch and Houston its looking like a complete defensive turnover from two years ago. Burris will still be here but he was drafted by McKenzie last year and could switch positions.
Wheeler signing with Miami. Going to be a whole new defense, especially if Kelly ends up getting cut. Other than Branch and Houston its looking like a complete defensive turnover from two years ago. Burris will still be here but he was drafted by McKenzie last year and could switch positions.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Who will be the last remaining Al Davis draft pick on this roster?
a) Jared Veldheer
b) Denarius Moore
c) Stefen Wisniewski
Janikowski and McFadden are longshots.
a) Jared Veldheer
b) Denarius Moore
c) Stefen Wisniewski
Janikowski and McFadden are longshots.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Gotta laugh to keep from crying.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Today is a bloodbath. Reggie just did what Al Davis never would have dared to do. Throw out each worthy or unworthy free agent to the market and let them all get scooped up. I realize that a huge percentage of the cap is now dead money. If they end up cutting Carson, TK, and Slo it's over 40% dead money. But they are swimming in cap space now. What are they going to do to repair the roster? It looks like the weakest roster ever. If we are going to tank on purpose to get another top pick and cap space, might as well get the booze ready...it's gonna be a long @$#$ing year! 
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
@CorkOnTheNFL "Clowning for Clowney?"
This needs to happen... The core of the team needs to be blown up. Us Raider fans have never experienced a true rebuilding period, no more re-loading like Mr Davis used to say. 2013 could be rock bottom, good news is there will be nowhere to go but up from there. My hope is that McKenzie and his new scouting department can fill the roster with solid young talent and give the team a promising future. We have no choice to but have faith in McKenzie and give him and his staff a couple years.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I disagree strongly. This doesn't need to happen like this. Huff while overpaid was only a $1.3 mill cap savings. It's Mark Davis's cheap ways and lack of any football instincts or business vision that is going to make this franchise turn overnight from potential contender 8-8 team to a laughing stock doormat. He's guaranteed Reggie and Dennis's salaries so they aren't going anywhere after 2013's 1-15 season. What's wrong with this picture? Reggie is supposed to be a "football guy" who knows how to do more with less and cultivate the third tier FA's and late draft picks. Else, why did Mark hire him anyway. Any idiot capologist can slash and burn. He's throwing the whole mess in the crapper with no thought or imagination. This is a very poor plan and indefinsible imo.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I blame Al's idiot son Mark
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Mark's plan all along: Gut the team. Now we understand what the tarps over Mt Davis were all about.
I get what you're saying, but that 8-8 team couldn't win a home game against a crappy Charger team to get into the playoffs. I don't pretend to be an expert, I'm just a fan. The way I see it the whole team needs to be overhauled. Other than Wheeler, I won't miss any of these guys, they are replaceable...
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Not just beating a crap Charger team but that meltdown against Detroit, the earlier meltdown at Buffalo. We weren't ever really 'good', but weren't one step away from wearing bags on our faces either. Hey, I apologize if I come off bitter. I am very upset by this. 43 years I've followed this team and they never raised the white flag in March. This suck for the #1 pick loser mentality doesn't sit right with me. Others joke and laugh about it, but I lack that kind of sense of humor when it comes to the Raiders.
Well you and I agree on that Raiderfan! I don't find it funny at all, but lets be real, the Raiders have been laughing stocks since 2006 basically. The thing that worries me is how could McKenzie go into last season with Bartell and Spencer penciled in as the starting CBs? As a fan I could see the writing on the wall there, I just hope he makes better personnel decisions than that going forward.
GoodLloydHaveMercy
Footballguy
Tawain Jones can play corner!!
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Garrett
Footballguy
Given the roster, cap situation, and complete organization turnover right as free agency was entering its peak. What better options did he have? I saw Bartell and Spencer as a desperate move, but it was a bit a desperate situation. Keeping Routt and his ridiculous contract was definitely not an option.
ICON211
Footballguy
It's his job to come up with better than that and now the team has been completely blown up. I realize a lot of this is Al's fault, but I can not remember another team in today's NFL that thought they had to start almost completely over. They did not seem to feel that way last year. Why not blow the whole thing up last year? Last year was basically just a complete waste. And he already has restructured a deal he did himself last year (Branch). Why restructure that deal to spread the cap hit to later years if you were going to blow the team up?
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Yes, this is Al's fault, and no one should forget that. He over paid for a punter, a place kicker, Kelly, a washed up WR in Javon Walker, and squander numerous high picks on poor trades and failed prospects, with Jamarcus Russell as his swan song. But Al always knew better than anyone else...
The players released today will not be missed. Phffft! 13 million guaranteed for Wheeler is an easy pass for me. We will find mid-tier replacements that will put forth the same effort as Wheeler. The key is who the Raiders sign and where they commit the long term money. If Reggie hits on his draft picks and works FA correctly the Raiders will not be down long.
I too am now hoping they can move Palmer for a pick or two. AZ, you listening?
I recall the Titans going through the same sort of rebuild process shortly after McNair's time there. The Steelers are going through a similar experience now as well. But their down period will not be as long because they drafted well.
The players released today will not be missed. Phffft! 13 million guaranteed for Wheeler is an easy pass for me. We will find mid-tier replacements that will put forth the same effort as Wheeler. The key is who the Raiders sign and where they commit the long term money. If Reggie hits on his draft picks and works FA correctly the Raiders will not be down long.
I too am now hoping they can move Palmer for a pick or two. AZ, you listening?
I recall the Titans going through the same sort of rebuild process shortly after McNair's time there. The Steelers are going through a similar experience now as well. But their down period will not be as long because they drafted well.
UnknownCoach
Footballguy
Mark Davis has been anything but cheap as an owner. Al Davis paid his players but he was cheap when it came to coaches and the front office. Mark went out and hired McKenzie and a lot of other new office people and let McKenzie pick the coaches and players that McKenzie wanted. He's trying to hire a high profile team president as well. Mark and McKenzie are updating team facilities with new computers and such. Mark is trying like hell to get a new stadium deal done. He even cut back on the number of seats at the old stadium in order to prevent the TV blackouts. His wallet book has been wide open since he inherited the team.
I agree it was a desparation move and Routt is garbage and not worth a dime of his contract, but still, there had to be better options. I tried my best to erase last year, so correct me if I'm wrong, but did either one of them even step on the field? And as for blowing up the team. I think there's a lot of overreacting going on. They were 4-12, who are we losing? We won't miss any of them except Wheeler, and there's no way the Raiders were going to give him a $26mil contract.
UnknownCoach
Footballguy
Two years ago I said we could afford to resign Asomugha by letting Huff walk and cutting Chris Johnson. Last year with a new regime I talked about cutting Huff or at least moving him to corner. Only reason I'm surprised now is that I had given up on the thought after McKenzie and Allen seemed to position themselves in Huff's corner and made his contract even worse for cutting in 2013.
I still agree with the move though. We are finally free of Huff's ridiculous contract. I dont know who will replace Huff but I know he'll be a whole lot cheaper and probably produce the same production. I've been talking about moving Branch to free safety for the past couple years also. Maybe we actually do that now and resign Mitchell to start at strong safety. Maybe we bring in a new free safety. Either way we its not we lost a pro bowl safety. Huff was a tweener free safety/corner. A tweener like that makes a good backup player but an 8 million dollar starter needs to be really good at one position or the other. Huff was average when he was at his best.
The emergence of Streater might make the loss of DHB irrelavent and the move does save us cap space. We still have Moore, Ford, and Criner. So we are only 4 deep now instead of 5 deep with young developing WRs. We might even go after a veteran starter now though I still dont reccommend doing so.
Tollefson wasnt a loss. It was likely going to be either him or Crawford getting cut by the end of training camp anyway.
The only thing I dont agree with so far is restructuring Brisiel. Brisiel should have been cut also.
I still agree with the move though. We are finally free of Huff's ridiculous contract. I dont know who will replace Huff but I know he'll be a whole lot cheaper and probably produce the same production. I've been talking about moving Branch to free safety for the past couple years also. Maybe we actually do that now and resign Mitchell to start at strong safety. Maybe we bring in a new free safety. Either way we its not we lost a pro bowl safety. Huff was a tweener free safety/corner. A tweener like that makes a good backup player but an 8 million dollar starter needs to be really good at one position or the other. Huff was average when he was at his best.
The emergence of Streater might make the loss of DHB irrelavent and the move does save us cap space. We still have Moore, Ford, and Criner. So we are only 4 deep now instead of 5 deep with young developing WRs. We might even go after a veteran starter now though I still dont reccommend doing so.
Tollefson wasnt a loss. It was likely going to be either him or Crawford getting cut by the end of training camp anyway.
The only thing I dont agree with so far is restructuring Brisiel. Brisiel should have been cut also.
UnknownCoach
Footballguy
Well I was wrong about Wheeler wanting to stay. Adams is our first signing.
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Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub
Footballguy
Better be praying. No one is trading for Palmer at his salary. (And I think he winds up in Arizona. After the Raiders release him)'32 Counter Pass said:
Arizona, where Carson "mobility" Palmer will die on the field behind that o-line.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
He could have cut Seymour and held to Branch's franchise tender. His one big money splash contract was Bresiel who has been a major disappointment. But the biggest blunder was taking a team built around power running and try to convert it and a stiff statue of a QB into a WCO and ZBS. A scheme that was 180 deg out of alignment with the personnel on hand. Batell and Spencer were desperate moves, but a more experienced GM doesn't make those kind of rookie mistakes gambling on upside of cast off 30 yo corners. Reggie had a difficult job, no doubt. He's supposed to overcome the difficulties and retool the team while staying competitive, not blow it up. I am starting to hate the gtd salaries of Reggie and Dennis. Makes no sense.'Garrett said:
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
We can all agree that ZBS was a mistake, but I believe the hire of Knapp was left to Allen, not Reggie. To Allen's credit the mistake was acknowledged and a change was made. The jury is still out on the new coaching hires.I am not sure whether to laugh or cry at the idea the Bresiel was the Raiders "big money splash." IIRC his contract was for 5 mill per year, which is barely displaces the water when compared to the cannon ball dives teams like the Dolphins are making. But Bresiel was the Raiders biggest signing last year, which I believe speaks more to the terrible cap situation Al created.
What Reggie is doing HAD TO BE DONE in order to move the team beyond the perpetual double digit losing seasons. Just to put it in context, since 2003 the Raider have had 8 double digit losing seasons. Some of you are pretending this team was close to competing. It wasn't. Hue did a good job keeping the team in the thick of it one season, but he was doing it with smoke and mirrors (field goal fakes and lots of trickeration), not by dominating.
I want to see this team return to the 70s and 80s when it was dominant, not continually patch working a roster together that almost misses at the playoffs.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Honest question: Could you guys deal with a 1-15 or 2-14 season if it means having Clowney in Silver & Black for 8-10 years?
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
I do not look at a single player as the key to the Raiders rebuilding efforts. I believe that if the Raiders slide to a 1-15 record it is more likely an indication that Reggie has missed badly on this year's draft picks/FA signings, and we are not headed in the right direction. But I can deal with 1 or 2 win season if the team is competitive and the rookies/FA signings appear to show upside, indicating we are headed in the right direction.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I agree about not hoping for one particular player to 'save' us. But I can't for the life of me recall of a single one win or two win franchise that was considered 'competitive' or 'heading in the right direction'. Man a whole helluva lot has to ggo badly for that kind of season.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Clowney is not just any "single player“... it's not hyperbole to suggest that he may be the best defensive player in the NFL immediately.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Yup, which is why I said "I believe that if the Raiders slide to a 1-15 record it is more likely an indication that Reggie has missed badly on this year's draft picks/FA signings..."
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Can Clowney block? How well can he read defenses and throw to his third option? How about running a site adjustment of a pass pattern?Football is a TEAM sport.
Clowney may or may not be a difference maker, but it takes more than one player to be dominant.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
If the team goes 1-15 next year, you can go ahead and change the name to "SILVER & BLACK-OUT". The games will not be on TV and mercifully we won't get to see so much of the giant Tarp on Mt Davis. And you would have to wonder if Reggie and DA would not be given their mercy pink slips. At that point, Clowney is a small consolation prize.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
The Giants had a 5 game improvement from 1980 to 1981 simply by drafting Lawrence Taylor and nobody else you've ever heard of.
ICON211
Footballguy
I can not believe we have basically started the 2014 Raiders Offseason thread already. Thats how bad things have gotten.
massraider
Footballguy
Maybe Al Davis had it right. Maybe he was smart to never blow it up. Maybe he knew that if he ever admitted his team wasn't just one player away, the fans would revolt.
I am personally excited to see the cuts. Huff wasn't worth the deal, dhb sure wasn't, and I hope Kelly is next, that fat smack talker.
Why wait to cut these guys next year? so we have dead cap money left over from the long-dead Al Davis next year as well? Nah, I will take my medicine now please. All of it.
It's not giving up. it is correcting wrongs. Be smarter than the average fan. Those contracts will only look worse,next year. And after we go 6-10, or 7-9, everyone will say, why didn't we cut these guys last year?
I am personally excited to see the cuts. Huff wasn't worth the deal, dhb sure wasn't, and I hope Kelly is next, that fat smack talker.
Why wait to cut these guys next year? so we have dead cap money left over from the long-dead Al Davis next year as well? Nah, I will take my medicine now please. All of it.
It's not giving up. it is correcting wrongs. Be smarter than the average fan. Those contracts will only look worse,next year. And after we go 6-10, or 7-9, everyone will say, why didn't we cut these guys last year?
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
thread/
LawFitz
Footballguy
Too much doom and gloom in here. Raiders are nearly in full rebuild mode, but really the only two players lost so far that have me upset are Bryant and Wheeler. Other than that, it's been fat cutting IMO. In an ideal world, those two would've been signed to cheaper long terms deals last season, but a new regime and a tight cap prevented it, so whatever.
Before we panic, we need to see this play out through the next two drafts and next year's free agency. There is $32 million in dead cap coming off the books to spend on free agents in 2014 and a slew of new college players coming in, including the #3 this year and what seemingly will be a top 5ish pick next. Those new players will determine this regime's fate.
One thing I would like to see very much now, is Palmer traded for w/e we can get, or even cut if it came to that. We need to see what we have in Pryor and if that means getting a top pick because he flops, fine. We'd get either Clowny or next year's top QB, if a stud emerges. We have all this dead cap this year, might as well add Palmer to that total and flush it all out now, instead of passing some to future years.
Before we panic, we need to see this play out through the next two drafts and next year's free agency. There is $32 million in dead cap coming off the books to spend on free agents in 2014 and a slew of new college players coming in, including the #3 this year and what seemingly will be a top 5ish pick next. Those new players will determine this regime's fate.
One thing I would like to see very much now, is Palmer traded for w/e we can get, or even cut if it came to that. We need to see what we have in Pryor and if that means getting a top pick because he flops, fine. We'd get either Clowny or next year's top QB, if a stud emerges. We have all this dead cap this year, might as well add Palmer to that total and flush it all out now, instead of passing some to future years.
massraider
Footballguy
With the new bodies we need, a trade down seems even more like a dream scenario.
RaiderBones
Footballguy
I would love to see Clowney in Silver and Black. However, if the Raiders are that bad next season I would think they would take a serious look at QB's next year in the draft if the Raiders don't draft one this year. Unless Pryor does start eventually and does look good doing it then that could change everything, then Clowney would be AWESOME.
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massraider
Footballguy
if we cut Palmer, and I am not sure I want to, I am in favor of a Fitzpatrick signing.
