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2014 Oakland Raiders Regular Season Thread (1 Viewer)

Reggie is gone at the end of the season. He did a decent job at the draft this season but everything else has been a horrible failure. Last year's draft was awful. This year's offseason signings were awful. This year's keeping of young talent was awful. The Raiders had a ton of money and should have signed some quality players for the near future.

 
32 Counter Pass said:
Ya, the direction Reggie took has worked out perfectly.

Prepare to loose Wis this coming year if RM is still the GM.
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I don't think the Raiders would be winning any more games with Houston and Veldheer. And the line has been excellent in pass protection.

 
I read somewhere recently that the Raiders don't have a Pro-personnel scout. That could explain things.

Reggie is known as having a good eye for young players. Often pro-draft scouts look at a players and their potential where as a pro-personnel scout look at a player for what his is and realize that a 27+ year old player probably already has reached their potential. So if Reggie is doing his own pro-personnel scouting he may be looking at them as a draft scout looking at their potential instead of what they are. That could explain his piss poor veteran record. :shrug:

I'm not trying to make excuses for Reggie here. It's on him for not having a pro-personnel scout.

 
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People are amazingly fickle. McKenzie has had three drafts, only two of them with a full compliment of picks, and some of you already have the pitchforks and torches out. I don't see how you can judge the 2012 or 2013 drafts as complete yet and the earliest pick they had in 2012 was #95.

Hell the guy deserves better than that just for getting them out of cap hell.

 
RBM said:
Raiderfan32904 said:
Tuck when he's healthy plays 20 snaps a game. Woodley has 5 tackles in 6 games and no other stats. Were you being sarcastic?
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:lol:
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I didn't even realize Woodley has been playing. Talk about an invisible player and a waste of money. I thought I'd never say this but I miss Al. Yeah he screwed up the team pretty bad the last few years of his life but he and Hue Jackson had a competitive team at least. And despite what people thought of Al in his later years he still had an eye for talent. He just made some wacky draft day decisions. For instance, Mike Mitchell might not have been worth a 2nd round pick but they sure could use him now.
 
Chaka said:
People are amazingly fickle. McKenzie has had three drafts, only two of them with a full compliment of picks, and some of you already have the pitchforks and torches out. I don't see how you can judge the 2012 or 2013 drafts as complete yet and the earliest pick they had in 2012 was #95.

Hell the guy deserves better than that just for getting them out of cap hell.
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Not really, I could have gotten us out of cap hell in the same amount of time.

It is all about the Ws, good buddy. At this point given the record, these all sound more like excuses than reasons for failure. This should have been the year that Reggie's efforts showed up on the field. I recall both him and Allen making statements to that effect.

Unfortunately the cuts need to go deeper than Reggie for this franchise to turn it around. Tommy Boy needs to sell the franchise. We do not have a lot of evidence to go on but what has been presented thus far is that Mark Davis is living in the past. His decision to hire Reggie seemed almost impulsive because it was done so quickly based on advise from Madden and former front office guru Wolf. Another hint was the rumor that Davis wanted to draft Carr in the first round because he thought it might lure Gruden back. This should really alarm Raider fans and might be a glimpse into the Davis melding with the team in the future. In between we have seen Davis flail around trying to get a new stadium deal somewhere. Embarrassing. His dad must be rolling in his grave.

 
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32 Counter Pass said:
Chaka said:
People are amazingly fickle. McKenzie has had three drafts, only two of them with a full compliment of picks, and some of you already have the pitchforks and torches out. I don't see how you can judge the 2012 or 2013 drafts as complete yet and the earliest pick they had in 2012 was #95.

Hell the guy deserves better than that just for getting them out of cap hell.
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Not really, I could have gotten us out of cap hell in the same amount of time.

It is all about the Ws, good buddy. At this point given the record, these all sound more like excuses than reasons for failure. This should have been the year that Reggie's efforts showed up on the field. I recall both him and Allen making statements to that effect.

Unfortunately the cuts need to go deeper than Reggie for this franchise to turn it around. Tommy Boy needs to sell the franchise. We do not have a lot of evidence to go on but what has been presented thus far is that Mark Davis is living in the past. His decision to hire Reggie seemed almost impulsive because it was done so quickly based on advise from Madden and former front office guru Wolf. Another hint was the rumor that Davis wanted to draft Carr in the first round because he thought it might lure Gruden back. This should really alarm Raider fans and might be a glimpse into the Davis melding with the team in the future. In between we have seen Davis flail around trying to get a new stadium deal somewhere. Embarrassing. His dad must be rolling in his grave.
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Pure panic mentality.

And I am not sure you would have gotten them out of cap hell because your current problem is the fact that they didn't throw money at a couple decent to good, and likely overrated, players to make their problems go away.

[SIZE=14.2857141494751px]And if you clean house entirely that means that no one in the organization will have ties with Carr, which is not a good situation for the franchise at all.[/SIZE]

It's been three seasons and only two with complete drafts! The only bad decision was Dennis Allen (and the Greg's). Settle down and give him the second coach like he deserves. As much as I was against starting Carr this early in the season I have to say that I have been very impressed with the kid. If Reggie gets only that pick right and the Raiders have their starting QB for the next decade then he deserves the chance to reap the rewards of that move.

 
PANIC!!!

Not even going to give the guy a chance to build after he did a great job of tearing it down. Classic.

 
Tear down a team that was competing for the playoffs at the time of Al Davis death, replaced by a moron who stripped it of its soul. Excuses have become the mantra. Just wait baby! Just wait until we have all the toxic contracts off the books! Just wait till we get a full set of draft picks, just wait till we get a franchise QB. Reggie earned himself a righteous spot in the unemployment line. We deserve better than this ####, wake up!

 
Chaka said:
PANIC!!!

Not even going to give the guy a chance to build after he did a great job of tearing it down. Classic.
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Anyone could have cut everyone and let everyone walk. That was the easy part. The hard part is bringing in talent and he has been a miserable failure.

Hired Allen and let him bring back an OC that was already a complete failure here.

Traded for Flynn and Schaub.

Drafted Hayden and Watson who were basically projects with a lot of questions when the team needed solid choices.

Brought in every piece of garbage vet on the downside of their career with $60 million in cap space. Would it have been too much to ask to sign one free agent that was not done already and could be around when/if things turn around? Think about it, he had $60 million in cap space and has next to nothing to show for it.

He has been here for three drafts (admittedly one with very few picks) and three offseasons and the team has the worst roster in the entire league by far. That says it all about the job he has done.

This was the year the team was supposed to show major progress and we are talking about a possible 0-16.

 
Yeah the Raiders were really trending up under Hue. Wouldn't have had to deal with any cap repercussions at all and probably would have won two or three Super Bowls by now.

 
And suggesting that they were competing for the playoffs feels like revisionist history. They made a desperation play that fell far short and they were going to have to tear it down no matter what.

 
Chaka said:
And suggesting that they were competing for the playoffs feels like revisionist history. They made a desperation play that fell far short and they were going to have to tear it down no matter what.
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If they beat the Chargers week 17 they would have been in the playoffs. How exactly is that revisionist history? Saying they fell far short would be revisionist history.

 
ICON211 said:
Chaka said:
And suggesting that they were competing for the playoffs feels like revisionist history. They made a desperation play that fell far short and they were going to have to tear it down no matter what.
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If they beat the Chargers week 17 they would have been in the playoffs. How exactly is that revisionist history? Saying they fell far short would be revisionist history.
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Yeah they were on the cusp of greatness. Wouldn't have had to tear down the team if they had just beat the Chargers in week 17.

 
Chaka said:
ICON211 said:
Chaka said:
And suggesting that they were competing for the playoffs feels like revisionist history. They made a desperation play that fell far short and they were going to have to tear it down no matter what.
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If they beat the Chargers week 17 they would have been in the playoffs. How exactly is that revisionist history? Saying they fell far short would be revisionist history.
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Yeah they were on the cusp of greatness. Wouldn't have had to tear down the team if they had just beat the Chargers in week 17.
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I never said they were on the cusp of greatness. I guess you are mad that someone pointed out that your post was complete bull####.

You bring up an interesting topic though. I keep hearing that the whole thing needed to be torn down and burned to the ground. Why, because Reggie said so? Plenty of teams have salary cap problems and are up against the cap. Some are right up against the cap year after year. The Redskins were hit with about a $40 million cap penalty over two years. I didn't see any of the teams with cap issues throw 3-5 years away.

Reggie sold everyone that he needed to throw two years away in order to turn the team around. Well here we are in year three and the team has the worst roster/talent in the NFL and might go 0-16. But let's keep him around to continue with his master plan. Who knows maybe all he needs is .another 6-7 more years to get the roster where he wants it to be.

 
Going 0-16 is a reality. Anyone think Reggie still keeps his job after going 0-16? Is the team better now than it was 3 years ago? Anyone could have improved the salary situation. That was easy. Reggie failed at adding talent to the team even with $60M to spend.

 
Haha. A few ignorant people should not impugn the entire fan base.

BTW, they should have been throwing that crap at Reggie and Tommy Boy instead of the Card players. :tfp:

 
ICON211 said:
Chaka said:
ICON211 said:
Chaka said:
And suggesting that they were competing for the playoffs feels like revisionist history. They made a desperation play that fell far short and they were going to have to tear it down no matter what.
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If they beat the Chargers week 17 they would have been in the playoffs. How exactly is that revisionist history? Saying they fell far short would be revisionist history.
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Yeah they were on the cusp of greatness. Wouldn't have had to tear down the team if they had just beat the Chargers in week 17.
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I never said they were on the cusp of greatness. I guess you are mad that someone pointed out that your post was complete bull####.

You bring up an interesting topic though. I keep hearing that the whole thing needed to be torn down and burned to the ground. Why, because Reggie said so? Plenty of teams have salary cap problems and are up against the cap. Some are right up against the cap year after year. The Redskins were hit with about a $40 million cap penalty over two years. I didn't see any of the teams with cap issues throw 3-5 years away.

Reggie sold everyone that he needed to throw two years away in order to turn the team around. Well here we are in year three and the team has the worst roster/talent in the NFL and might go 0-16. But let's keep him around to continue with his master plan. Who knows maybe all he needs is .another 6-7 more years to get the roster where he wants it to be.
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Apologies for overstating it. The franchise has been on a downward spiral since 2003 and 2011 was not a potential turning point. At best they could have kicked the can down the road and continued to be a losing team that may have had an occasional shot at 9-7 and a first round exit from the playoffs (and the way the division looks today even that seems unlikely). Retooling was not an option for the long term success of the franchise. I thought most people reacted pretty favorably to the prospect of starting over with a ton of cap space.

I think letting Veldheer go was probably a bad call but it hasn't been a death knell by any stretch. I am sure they would have been 0-6 with him as well and not that far ahead on rebuilding the offensive line. The current line is performing better then anticipated and I am pretty sure they can get a left tackle that is as good or better then him at the top of the draft next year, which would provide them with what looks like four young, mostly home grown building blocks on the offensive line (5 if Watson ever does anything, which I think is becoming less likely but he may be a good swing tackle which every team needs). I think that is a formula for success in the NFL. If they let Wis go in the off season, then my opinion will definitely change on that, but for now he is still here.

The book has not been written on the 2013 & 2014 draft classes and if McKenzie did strike gold on Carr then he deserves the opportunity to hire a second head coach.

 
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I agree with your observations on Veldheer on the oline in general. I disagree on Watkins, I think he will be a very good RT and I am not sure why everyone is so down on him. Most of the game film I have watch shows him doing a pretty good job on pass protection. He needs to get stronger and improve his run blocking.

I also disagree on drafting a tackle "at the top of the draft next year." That is not their most pressing need. Penn has been surprisingly effective. The bad news is that Sparano will likely be gone so the oline will take a step back.

They need playmakers! Period. That encompasses a RB, DE, DT, WR. The draft appears deep at RB, which is encouraging. If they could land a solid DE in the draft and sign Suh the defense would take a major step forward.

As for Reggie, I will quote Tommy Boy, "You gotta win." They haven't done that since the coaching change, and it doesn't appear like they will do much of it the remainder of the season. Reggie is gone.

 
32 Counter Pass said:
I agree with your observations on Veldheer on the oline in general. I disagree on Watkins, I think he will be a very good RT and I am not sure why everyone is so down on him. Most of the game film I have watch shows him doing a pretty good job on pass protection. He needs to get stronger and improve his run blocking.

I also disagree on drafting a tackle "at the top of the draft next year." That is not their most pressing need. Penn has been surprisingly effective. The bad news is that Sparano will likely be gone so the oline will take a step back.

They need playmakers! Period. That encompasses a RB, DE, DT, WR. The draft appears deep at RB, which is encouraging. If they could land a solid DE in the draft and sign Suh the defense would take a major step forward.

As for Reggie, I will quote Tommy Boy, "You gotta win." They haven't done that since the coaching change, and it doesn't appear like they will do much of it the remainder of the season. Reggie is gone.
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Not being able to beak out Khalif Barnes isn't a great sign.

The Raiders need a lot of help at a lot of positions, but getting a decade long starter at LT to pair with your franchise QB wouldn't be a bad thing. Having a rock solid OLine will make any running back better (book isn't closed on Latavius btw).

The Raiders also desperately need a legitimate #1 WR to help and that would also be a good way to go. DE and DT as well but you can't do it all at once and those positions currently have the most intriguing potential UFAs.

Here are some prospective unrestricted free agents: Greg Hardy, Jason Pierre-Paul and Cliff Avril are currently UFAs as are Suh, McCoy and Fairley. There isn't much to get excited about at the OT, WR, CB, S & RB spots right now.

 
True, being unable to unseat Barnes is pretty damning, but as I said Watkins doesn't look like a liability on film. I just do not understand the upside of playing Barnes. Better to find out if Watkins can play. Same can be said of Murray. Clearly DMac and MJD are not the future.

 
32 Counter Pass said:
True, being unable to unseat Barnes is pretty damning, but as I said Watkins doesn't look like a liability on film. I just do not understand the upside of playing Barnes. Better to find out if Watkins can play. Same can be said of Murray. Clearly DMac and MJD are not the future.
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Obviously the coaches see something that makes them think that Barnes, McFadden and Jones-Drew are better then Watson and Murray. Or maybe it's political and they are worried about losing the locker room if the bench McFadden for Murray (can't really see this for Watson v Barnes but who knows?).

 
A summary of Kirwin's take on the Raiders (and he readily admits being into making the same mistakes while the Jets GM)

  • The owner and GM are new and inexperienced
  • The GM is feeling pressure from the owner because ticket sales are down (somewhat masked by covering up seats), so the GM resorts to a quick fix by signing old vets.
  • Old vets are either past their prime or not emotional attached to the franchise (paraphrasing)
  • The Raiders are still paying for the JRussell pick (I would add McClain to that mix as well)
What I found interesting is that while Kirwin is usually reserved in his criticism of teams but he has strongly intimated that the Davis needs to sell the team before things can change, but that he [Davis] "isn't there yet."

In the short term Kirwin suggests the Raiders need to hire a GM and coach with deep experience.

 
32 Counter Pass said:
A summary of Kirwin's take on the Raiders (and he readily admits being into making the same mistakes while the Jets GM)

  • The owner and GM are new and inexperienced
  • The GM is feeling pressure from the owner because ticket sales are down (somewhat masked by covering up seats), so the GM resorts to a quick fix by signing old vets.
  • Old vets are either past their prime or not emotional attached to the franchise (paraphrasing)
  • The Raiders are still paying for the JRussell pick (I would add McClain to that mix as well)
What I found interesting is that while Kirwin is usually reserved in his criticism of teams but he has strongly intimated that the Davis needs to sell the team before things can change, but that he [Davis] "isn't there yet."In the short term Kirwin suggests the Raiders need to hire a GM and coach with deep experience.
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You can go even farther back than Russell and McClain. They haven't had any first-round picks make an impact since Woodson and Janikowski. And for years their only perennial pro-bowler was Lechler. That's pretty bad.
 
krsone21 said:
Reported rumors of Oakland Raiders interested in Vincent Jackson trade

by J.L. Herrera

http://www.examiner.com/article/reported-rumors-of-oakland-raiders-interested-vincent-jackson-trade

Oakland Raiders Rumors: Team interested in Vincent Jackson Trade?

http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2014/10/21/oakland-raiders-rumors-team-interested-in-vincent-jackson-trade/
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That'd be nice if we give up little, but none of those articles have anything truly connecting Oakland to a trade with Tampa. They look like fan articles.
 
Chaka said:
32 Counter Pass said:
True, being unable to unseat Barnes is pretty damning, but as I said Watkins doesn't look like a liability on film. I just do not understand the upside of playing Barnes. Better to find out if Watkins can play. Same can be said of Murray. Clearly DMac and MJD are not the future.
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Obviously the coaches see something that makes them think that Barnes, McFadden and Jones-Drew are better then Watson and Murray. Or maybe it's political and they are worried about losing the locker room if the bench McFadden for Murray (can't really see this for Watson v Barnes but who knows?).
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Or maybe the coach isn't worried about the team's future because he's worried about his own present.

 
JaxBill said:
Chaka said:
32 Counter Pass said:
True, being unable to unseat Barnes is pretty damning, but as I said Watkins doesn't look like a liability on film. I just do not understand the upside of playing Barnes. Better to find out if Watkins can play. Same can be said of Murray. Clearly DMac and MJD are not the future.
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Obviously the coaches see something that makes them think that Barnes, McFadden and Jones-Drew are better then Watson and Murray. Or maybe it's political and they are worried about losing the locker room if the bench McFadden for Murray (can't really see this for Watson v Barnes but who knows?).
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Or maybe the coach isn't worried about the team's future because he's worried about his own present.
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Also possible but in that scenario if they thought Watson and Murray were better players then they would be playing ahead of Barnes & McFadden.

 
Chaka said:
JaxBill said:
Chaka said:
32 Counter Pass said:
True, being unable to unseat Barnes is pretty damning, but as I said Watkins doesn't look like a liability on film. I just do not understand the upside of playing Barnes. Better to find out if Watkins can play. Same can be said of Murray. Clearly DMac and MJD are not the future.
Click to expand...
Obviously the coaches see something that makes them think that Barnes, McFadden and Jones-Drew are better then Watson and Murray. Or maybe it's political and they are worried about losing the locker room if the bench McFadden for Murray (can't really see this for Watson v Barnes but who knows?).
Click to expand...
Or maybe the coach isn't worried about the team's future because he's worried about his own present.
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Also possible but in that scenario if they thought Watson and Murray were better players then they would be playing ahead of Barnes & McFadden.
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Watson will probably start again this week even with a healthy Barnes. If Watson plays well Barnes may be put on the bench permanently unless an injury occurs.

 
32 Counter Pass said:
Likely just writers making crap up on a slow news day. A trade like this makes no sense.
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I guess it depends on how much you think VJax has in the tank. I think he is still a legitimate #1 WR who has performed well in a train wreck situation in Tampa Bay. I certainly think he is better then any receiver currently on the roster. I just don't know how many more years he has left at a #1 WR level. Seems like maybe 2 or 3 at the very most. Would that be worth a 6th round draft pick? A 5th?

 
Raider Nation said:
Pass up a FG well within Jano's range, and run the worst fake ever created. Raiders football!
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McFadden gashes them on a few runs so you call a wildcat formation pass from him to the QB, then bring in MJD for a 4 yard loss then a fake FG interception. Some sequence.

 
This is why bad football teams are bad football teams. Cleveland's run defense is PATHETIC, so naturally.... throw the ball every f--king down!!! Even on 3rd and 1. It makes you homicidal sometimes.

 
He looks terrible. Why is he getting work over McFadden?

And I'm actually cool with the punt there. Our best chance of scoring will be on defense, evidently.

 
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