2015 ACC Basketball - CLOSED (use 2016 thread now) (1 Viewer)

[tdoss]

Definitely a gut punch. Bummed I missed the game...just had too much going on with work.

Really would've liked to focus on the flaws and see if they're correctable.

I thought Miami was something to worry about...but couldn't get to a screen to check this game.

Duke doesn't have much time to fix it...Louisville is coming with a haymaker.

Stepping back...man...seriously...look how damned tough this conference is...

 

[oso diablo]

i earlier said this was best Duke team since 2004. I'll now go further and say since 2001.

 

[Sammy3469]

Definitely a gut punch. Bummed I missed the game...just had too much going on with work.

Really would've liked to focus on the flaws and see if they're correctable.

I thought Miami was something to worry about...but couldn't get to a screen to check this game.

Duke doesn't have much time to fix it...Louisville is coming with a haymaker.

Stepping back...man...seriously...look how damned tough this conference is...

Same problem as last year. They don't know how to defend a pick and roll, effectively. When they go under it, the guard with the ball has been hitting everything in sight and when they jump it, the help defense has been lacking.

The offense is also in a funk. Quick doubles on Okafor and everything goes to hell. Most importantly spacing which leads to bad floor balance which leads to fast break baskets if Okafor turns the ball over.

It's fixable, maybe not for a couple of games though.

 

[MattFancy]

ACC defintiely looks pretty tough this season. Virginia may very well end up winning it again.

 

[apalmer]

Definitely a gut punch. Bummed I missed the game...just had too much going on with work.

Really would've liked to focus on the flaws and see if they're correctable.

I thought Miami was something to worry about...but couldn't get to a screen to check this game.

Duke doesn't have much time to fix it...Louisville is coming with a haymaker.

Stepping back...man...seriously...look how damned tough this conference is...

Same problem as last year. They don't know how to defend a pick and roll, effectively. When they go under it, the guard with the ball has been hitting everything in sight and when they jump it, the help defense has been lacking.

The offense is also in a funk. Quick doubles on Okafor and everything goes to hell. Most importantly spacing which leads to bad floor balance which leads to fast break baskets if Okafor turns the ball over.

It's fixable, maybe not for a couple of games though.

They'll fix it for Pitt.

 

[Archer]

ACC defintiely looks pretty tough this season. Virginia may very well end up winning it again.

When you look at their schedule coming into this season, they SHOULD win the league. I think they only play Duke, UNC, Syracuse, and Boston College once, and they don't have to play at Duke. Plus they are very good.

 

[MattFancy]

Big win for the Tarheels last night. They tried to give it away, but for once, they actually were hitting their FTs late.

 

[NMYMND]

Big win for the Tarheels last night. They tried to give it away, but for once, they actually were hitting their FTs late.

That was an entertaining game. Reminded me of Notre Dame-UNC - home team down, looks out, but fights back before coming up just short. There were several little UNC mistakes that kept giving NC State chances - Pinson fouling the 3-point shooter, Tokoto going for dunk on breakaway instead of dribbling time off, and they could have thrown deep to Tokoto again after Lacey's free throws to run out the clock, but inbounder didn't look up. But it is encouraging to see this UNC team win 3 straight tight games.

This is also a really nice NC State team, and going 1-2 in the UVa, Duke, UNC stretch could be considered a little disappointing. Looking at upcoming schedule, State has a chance to go on a run. I don't think it's inconceivable they could win the next 6 and then have a full week to prepare for the UVa rematch in Raleigh.

 

[NMYMND]

And congrats to BC for breaking the Harvard streak.

 

[MattFancy]

Big win for the Tarheels last night. They tried to give it away, but for once, they actually were hitting their FTs late.

That was an entertaining game. Reminded me of Notre Dame-UNC - home team down, looks out, but fights back before coming up just short. There were several little UNC mistakes that kept giving NC State chances - Pinson fouling the 3-point shooter, Tokoto going for dunk on breakaway instead of dribbling time off, and they could have thrown deep to Tokoto again after Lacey's free throws to run out the clock, but inbounder didn't look up. But it is encouraging to see this UNC team win 3 straight tight games.

This is also a really nice NC State team, and going 1-2 in the UVa, Duke, UNC stretch could be considered a little disappointing. Looking at upcoming schedule, State has a chance to go on a run. I don't think it's inconceivable they could win the next 6 and then have a full week to prepare for the UVa rematch in Raleigh.

UNC was definitely trying their best to give it away. This UNC seems like it could be dangerous come tournament time. Still a long way to go to get there, but I like what I've seen from them so far.

NC State still has work to do obviously, but they seem like they can put themselves in position to make the tourney this year. Beating Duke always looks good. If they can beat the teams they're supposed to (Wake, FSU, GaTech, VaTech, BC) and steal one at home against ND or Virginia, they could definitely get in.

 

[Worm]

Paige is just freaking nails against State in Raleigh. When he hit one of those threes against the zone I was just beside myself. On a team full of non-shooters you can't leave the only shooter. A guy who single handedly won the game last year.

State just didn't have it for a lot of the night last night. Losing their man, dribbling it off their foot, forcing shots... the middle 20 minutes were pretty ugly.

That was an opportunity for a big win last night that they just couldn't take advantage of. Hopefully they don't have a let down against FSU. Going to be tough from here on out. 8 of next 12 on the road I think.

 

[simey]

State just didn't have it for a lot of the night last night. Losing their man, dribbling it off their foot, forcing shots... the middle 20 minutes were pretty ugly.

There were some ugly minutes there, but it didn't get as ugly as it has in the past while playing UNC. I did like how they still fought tooth and nail after Anya and Turner fouled out, and they kept it close enough to win. It's disappointing that they only won one of the last three games, but I expect them to learn from their mistakes, and get better in the coming weeks. I think they are better now at this point in the season compared to last year. Hopefully the next game will be a W, and GO PACK!!

 

[MattFancy]

What's everyone's thoughts on Cuse so far? 4-0 in conference, but have all been against the bottom. They should get to 6-0 here soon, but I don't know how good they are or aren't yet.

 

[Yenrub]

Paige is just freaking nails against State in Raleigh. When he hit one of those threes against the zone I was just beside myself. On a team full of non-shooters you can't leave the only shooter. A guy who single handedly won the game last year.

State just didn't have it for a lot of the night last night. Losing their man, dribbling it off their foot, forcing shots... the middle 20 minutes were pretty ugly.

That was an opportunity for a big win last night that they just couldn't take advantage of. Hopefully they don't have a let down against FSU. Going to be tough from here on out. 8 of next 12 on the road I think.

 

[Worm]

What's everyone's thoughts on Cuse so far? 4-0 in conference, but have all been against the bottom. They should get to 6-0 here soon, but I don't know how good they are or aren't yet.

Their schedule is so back loaded it's ridiculous. They better make the most of January.

 

[MattFancy]

What's everyone's thoughts on Cuse so far? 4-0 in conference, but have all been against the bottom. They should get to 6-0 here soon, but I don't know how good they are or aren't yet.

Their schedule is so back loaded it's ridiculous. They better make the most of January.

Was thinking the same thing. They still play Dukex2, UNC, Louisville, ND and Virginia. From Feb 14 to Mar 7 here's their schedule: Duke, Louisville, Pitt, @ND, @Duke, Virginia, @NC State. That's a brutal 7 game stretch to end the season.

 

[Tango]

What's everyone's thoughts on Cuse so far? 4-0 in conference, but have all been against the bottom. They should get to 6-0 here soon, but I don't know how good they are or aren't yet.

To Worm's point, January has been cake from a scheduling standpoint...but they havent been winning these games easy.

The team has found its formula with Christmas/Cooney/Gbinije (sp). But then it lost McCullough. That's the equivalent of two steps forward, one step back; net-net the team is vastly better than a month ago, but it lost its depth.

Christmas is developing at such a pace right now that it is tough to fathom. Many didnt watch the Wake game b/c it was a very limited broadcast. He looked like a lottery pick in that game.

 

[Archer]

Great first half for Duke defensively. Even if they don't pull out the win in the 2nd half, thrilled K made the adjustments he did. A lot of people were implying he was too old and stubborn to change. Glad that clearly isn't the case. And who would have thought Duke would be up 10 with Oak only have 2 FGs.

 

[Archer]

Nice to break that losing streak with another HUGE road win against a top 10 team.

 

[tdoss]

Louisville was unable to deal with that zone defense.

Duke made high percentage shots and kept the turnovers down...that's how you beat Louisville's transition offense.

Okafor looked great again...few stumbles dealing with the double team early but figured it out in the second half.

I love Jefferson...and he did well, especially on the stat sheet...but he really seems awkward at times...bit of butter fingers and nerves. Really hope he can continue to mature.

Duke has some challenges ahead...some tough road games...especially with Notre Dame and Virginia.

 

[tdoss]

Was watching some of Miami @ Notre Dame...

Damn...Miami is LONNNNNNG. Maybe it's their dark jerseys against ND's white floor but the players look like one of those Ernie Barnes paintings (ala Good Times intro).

 

[tdoss]

Never expected ND to do this well this year.

 

[Koya]

oof cuse

 

[Tango]

What's everyone's thoughts on Cuse so far? 4-0 in conference, but have all been against the bottom. They should get to 6-0 here soon, but I don't know how good they are or aren't yet.

To Worm's point, January has been cake from a scheduling standpoint...but they havent been winning these games easy.

The team has found its formula with Christmas/Cooney/Gbinije (sp). But then it lost McCullough. That's the equivalent of two steps forward, one step back; net-net the team is vastly better than a month ago, but it lost its depth.

Christmas is developing at such a pace right now that it is tough to fathom. Many didnt watch the Wake game b/c it was a very limited broadcast. He looked like a lottery pick in that game.

Thud.

 

[Archer]

Happy for Clemson. Would like to see them be a competitive team each year like they were back in the Grant/Davis/Campbell years.

 

[sporthenry]

Nice story about Larranaga.

 

[oso diablo]

Coach K and Duke playing zone defense all game? What's next - using the Duke Chapel as a mosque?

 

[Tau837]

Projected NCAA tournament status through Saturday's games:

In - UVA, Duke, UNC, Louisville, N.C. State, Notre Dame

Bubble - Miami, Syracuse, Pitt

Out - Clemson, GT, BC, Wake, FSU, VT

If tournament selection happened on Sunday, it is likely the top 8 would get in, with Pitt first ACC team out. Also looks like Pitt is currently in position to join the bottom 5 in the first round of the ACC tournament.

BTW, did everyone know that the ACC tournament is Tuesday - Saturday this year? That is an interesting change.

 

[Worm]

Projected NCAA tournament status through Saturday's games:

In - UVA, Duke, UNC, Louisville, N.C. State, Notre Dame

Bubble - Miami, Syracuse, Pitt

Out - Clemson, GT, BC, Wake, FSU, VT

If tournament selection happened on Sunday, it is likely the top 8 would get in, with Pitt first ACC team out. Also looks like Pitt is currently in position to join the bottom 5 in the first round of the ACC tournament.

BTW, did everyone know that the ACC tournament is Tuesday - Saturday this year? That is an interesting change.

Looking at the schedule, I think it will be an accomplishment if State goes 6-6 the rest of the way to finish 10-8. If so, they will probably need a win or two in the ACCT to feel any level of comfort.

 

[Tau837]

Projected NCAA tournament status through Saturday's games:

In - UVA, Duke, UNC, Louisville, N.C. State, Notre Dame

Bubble - Miami, Syracuse, Pitt

Out - Clemson, GT, BC, Wake, FSU, VT

If tournament selection happened on Sunday, it is likely the top 8 would get in, with Pitt first ACC team out. Also looks like Pitt is currently in position to join the bottom 5 in the first round of the ACC tournament.

BTW, did everyone know that the ACC tournament is Tuesday - Saturday this year? That is an interesting change.

Looking at the schedule, I think it will be an accomplishment if State goes 6-6 the rest of the way to finish 10-8. If so, they will probably need a win or two in the ACCT to feel any level of comfort.

I think they can do better than that. The only remaining games that would be upsets for State to win are UVA, @Louisville, and @UNC... and they were within 10 points of UVA on the road and within 2 points of UNC at home, so wins over either of those teams wouldn't be that surprising.

I'm expecting 7-8 more regular season wins. That said, even if they go 6-6, I'd be surprised if they were not in the tournament. Before the FSU game, they had played the #7 SOS. I'm sure that will drop a bit, but it should still be strong at season's end. That, in turn, should keep their RPI above bubble territory.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

BTW, did everyone know that the ACC tournament is Tuesday - Saturday this year? That is an interesting change.

The major conferences have slowly shifted their tournament title games from Sunday to Saturday. Conferences felt like they got a better deal on NCAA Tournament seeds if they wrapped up the conference tournament a day before the bracket is released.

 

[Archer]

Duke fans I don't know about you guys, but I am so encouraged by the zone D Duke has been playing. Funny how the team went from WRECKED defensively to actually pretty good the last 2 games. Granted Louisville and Pitt aren't the best shooting perimeter teams, but its a start. And I'm a broken record but Oakfor is an absolutely freak. Every game he makes a move that I just can't believe a 270 pound big man can make. I'm not sure there are 3 centers better in the NBA right now. Imagine when he's in the league and he'll never be double teamed.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Duke fans I don't know about you guys, but I am so encouraged by the zone D Duke has been playing. Funny how the team went from WRECKED defensively to actually pretty good the last 2 games. Granted Louisville and Pitt aren't the best shooting perimeter teams, but its a start. And I'm a broken record but Oakfor is an absolutely freak. Every game he makes a move that I just can't believe a 270 pound big man can make. I'm not sure there are 3 centers better in the NBA right now. Imagine when he's in the league and he'll never be double teamed.

Sometimes you click "view it anyway" and you hit the jackpot. This is one of those times.

God bless you, you crazy SOB.

 

[tdoss]

That zone will help against penetrating guards. It's really just them packing it in...inside the perimeter.

It'll take good outside shooting to open it up.

I like that they've got it in their arsenal and can legitimately switch when needed and it won't be a gimmick.

 

[oso diablo]

what's the opposite of a box & one?

 

[TLEF316]

Duke fans I don't know about you guys, but I am so encouraged by the zone D Duke has been playing. Funny how the team went from WRECKED defensively to actually pretty good the last 2 games. Granted Louisville and Pitt aren't the best shooting perimeter teams, but its a start. And I'm a broken record but Oakfor is an absolutely freak. Every game he makes a move that I just can't believe a 270 pound big man can make. I'm not sure there are 3 centers better in the NBA right now. Imagine when he's in the league and he'll never be double teamed.

Sometimes you click "view it anyway" and you hit the jackpot. This is one of those times.

God bless you, you crazy SOB.

I don't think the number is 3, but the number of centers I'd rather have is pretty small. (probably like 7 to 10 depending on what you value, which is obviously a far cry from 3)

2 years from now, I think it will absolutely be a true statement. But we're not there yet.

He did get away with a pretty obvious travel on that one reverse layup.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

what's the opposite of a box & one?

A dot & four?

 

[Archer]

We can revisit next year my statement about Jah. When he's not seeing double teams he's going to be an absolute monster down low.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

This time last year Jabari Parker was one of the 3 best forwards in the NBA. Just saying.

 

[Archer]

This time last year Jabari Parker was one of the 3 best forwards in the NBA. Just saying.

I never said that and you know it. Hell I don't know a single Duke fan that said anything about his NBA game last year. We knew he was horrible on defense and still had conditioning issues. But yeah, make up crap like you always do, nothing new. It was fun beating GT in football this year. Would say the same about our basketball games, but that's the same old same old boring news....

 

[tdoss]

How is Jabari doing in the NBA? Did he ever get his conditioning up to speed?

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

How is Jabari doing in the NBA? Did he ever get his conditioning up to speed?

He tore his ACL a few weeks ago. He was on the short list for Rookie of the Year before he got hurt.

 

[tdoss]

How is Jabari doing in the NBA? Did he ever get his conditioning up to speed?

He tore his ACL a few weeks ago. He was on the short list for Rookie of the Year before he got hurt.

Damn...sucks about the ACL.

ROY, nice. Who's is projected to get it?

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

How is Jabari doing in the NBA? Did he ever get his conditioning up to speed?

He tore his ACL a few weeks ago. He was on the short list for Rookie of the Year before he got hurt.

Damn...sucks about the ACL.

ROY, nice. Who's is projected to get it?

Any ACL tear is awful. Getting it about one-third into the season is just terrible timing. Won't get the experience of a full season grind, recovery will spill over into the offseason.

It's been a weird ROY race. Julius Randle broke his leg and got knocked out for the season real early. Joel Embiid hasn't played all season because of injuries. Parker was on his way then blew his knee out.

Wiggins started slow, but has played great the last few weeks and seems to be pulling away from the field. His strongest challenger is probably Nerlens Noel, the UK center from two years ago who got hurt and sat down the full 2014 season.

The biggest positive surprise from the draft class has to be KJ McDaniels from Clemson. The Sixers took him early in the 2nd round. He's been filling up the hustle board. Sure it's for a lousy team, but 2nd round picks are pretty much coin flips to make the roster and McDaniels has been a big contributor and started a few games.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Duke fans I don't know about you guys, but I am so encouraged by the zone D Duke has been playing. Funny how the team went from WRECKED defensively to actually pretty good the last 2 games. Granted Louisville and Pitt aren't the best shooting perimeter teams, but its a start. And I'm a broken record but Oakfor is an absolutely freak. Every game he makes a move that I just can't believe a 270 pound big man can make. I'm not sure there are 3 centers better in the NBA right now. Imagine when he's in the league and he'll never be double teamed.

Sometimes you click "view it anyway" and you hit the jackpot. This is one of those times.

God bless you, you crazy SOB.

I don't think the number is 3, but the number of centers I'd rather have is pretty small. (probably like 7 to 10 depending on what you value, which is obviously a far cry from 3)

2 years from now, I think it will absolutely be a true statement. But we're not there yet.

He did get away with a pretty obvious travel on that one reverse layup.

No chance it's 7 to 10 right now. He would get eaten alive by virtually every starter in the league and many of the backups. A year from now, after he goes through summer league and training camp, maybe he's in the top half if he ends up in a good situation and he's a hall of fame talent.

It's impossible to overstate the difference between college and the pros. Here's a fun example: Kevin Durant ranked 21st in PER among small forwards in his rookie year. Kevin ####### Durant. And 21st is probably is better than his true ranking, since he was a poor defender at the time and PER doesn't account for defense.

 

[TobiasFunke]

By the way Okafor is amazing. I think he's gonna be a perennial all-star. It's just gonna take a year or two of getting pushed around by the big boys before he gets there.

 

[TLEF316]

Duke fans I don't know about you guys, but I am so encouraged by the zone D Duke has been playing. Funny how the team went from WRECKED defensively to actually pretty good the last 2 games. Granted Louisville and Pitt aren't the best shooting perimeter teams, but its a start. And I'm a broken record but Oakfor is an absolutely freak. Every game he makes a move that I just can't believe a 270 pound big man can make. I'm not sure there are 3 centers better in the NBA right now. Imagine when he's in the league and he'll never be double teamed.

Sometimes you click "view it anyway" and you hit the jackpot. This is one of those times.

God bless you, you crazy SOB.

I don't think the number is 3, but the number of centers I'd rather have is pretty small. (probably like 7 to 10 depending on what you value, which is obviously a far cry from 3)

2 years from now, I think it will absolutely be a true statement. But we're not there yet.

He did get away with a pretty obvious travel on that one reverse layup.

No chance it's 7 to 10 right now. He would get eaten alive by virtually every starter in the league and many of the backups. A year from now, after he goes through summer league and training camp, maybe he's in the top half if he ends up in a good situation and he's a hall of fame talent.

It's impossible to overstate the difference between college and the pros. Here's a fun example: Kevin Durant ranked 21st in PER among small forwards in his rookie year. Kevin ####### Durant. And 21st is probably is better than his true ranking, since he was a poor defender at the time and PER doesn't account for defense.

Gonna respectfully disagree for a couple of reasons...

1) The Center position is generally weaker than the wing position

2) Durant's unique style (oversized wing player) and lack of physical strength led to a more challenging transition

3) He had to adjust to the longer 3 point line, which was a big part of his game.

If you dropped Okafor into an NBA lineup today he'd obviously take his lumps. There would be nights when the big bodies there would frustrate him and make him look like the 19 year old that he is. But I honestly believe his post skills and physical gifts are advanced enough that he'd be a top half of the league starting center.

Just my opinion.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Duke fans I don't know about you guys, but I am so encouraged by the zone D Duke has been playing. Funny how the team went from WRECKED defensively to actually pretty good the last 2 games. Granted Louisville and Pitt aren't the best shooting perimeter teams, but its a start. And I'm a broken record but Oakfor is an absolutely freak. Every game he makes a move that I just can't believe a 270 pound big man can make. I'm not sure there are 3 centers better in the NBA right now. Imagine when he's in the league and he'll never be double teamed.

Sometimes you click "view it anyway" and you hit the jackpot. This is one of those times.

God bless you, you crazy SOB.

I don't think the number is 3, but the number of centers I'd rather have is pretty small. (probably like 7 to 10 depending on what you value, which is obviously a far cry from 3)

2 years from now, I think it will absolutely be a true statement. But we're not there yet.

He did get away with a pretty obvious travel on that one reverse layup.

No chance it's 7 to 10 right now. He would get eaten alive by virtually every starter in the league and many of the backups. A year from now, after he goes through summer league and training camp, maybe he's in the top half if he ends up in a good situation and he's a hall of fame talent.

It's impossible to overstate the difference between college and the pros. Here's a fun example: Kevin Durant ranked 21st in PER among small forwards in his rookie year. Kevin ####### Durant. And 21st is probably is better than his true ranking, since he was a poor defender at the time and PER doesn't account for defense.

Gonna respectfully disagree for a couple of reasons...

1) The Center position is generally weaker than the wing position

2) Durant's unique style (oversized wing player) and lack of physical strength led to a more challenging transition

3) He had to adjust to the longer 3 point line, which was a big part of his game.

If you dropped Okafor into an NBA lineup today he'd obviously take his lumps. There would be nights when the big bodies there would frustrate him and make him look like the 19 year old that he is. But I honestly believe his post skills and physical gifts are advanced enough that he'd be a top half of the league starting center.

Just my opinion.

Excellent points about Durant. And I suppose the counter-example would be Anthony Davis, who was immediately one of the better power forwards in the game according to PER.

Still, I think 7-10 overstates it significantly, especially without the benefit of summer league and training camp and all the coaching and conditioning and whatnot. That stuff makes a big difference. Plus even though the position is thin relative to some others and there's no 3 Pt line adjustment, it's still pretty easy to get to 10 quality NBA centers who are clearly better right now when you start naming names. Okafor might need a season getting up to speed before he's even the best center among former Duke players in the league.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

I'm closer to TLEF's side than Tobias's on this one. Even a conservative comp for Okafor like Al Jefferson suggests Okafor is going to slide in at the top half of starters at his position as a rookie. Like all rookies he will have to adjust to NBA speed and size, but Okafor is pretty well polished for a player his age and size.

I don't think Durant is a useful comp here for a lot of reasons, many already listed by TLEF. Durant is an unusual case because his pro position and role were unclear when he entered the league: he played SG as a rookie because of his lack of physical development and the rest of Seattle's personnel at the time. I don't think any NBA team is going to play Okafor at SF until he fills out.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I'm closer to TLEF's side than Tobias's on this one. Even a conservative comp for Okafor like Al Jefferson suggests Okafor is going to slide in at the top half of starters at his position as a rookie. Like all rookies he will have to adjust to NBA speed and size, but Okafor is pretty well polished for a player his age and size.

I don't think Durant is a useful comp here for a lot of reasons, many already listed by TLEF. Durant is an unusual case because his pro position and role were unclear when he entered the league: he played SG as a rookie because of his lack of physical development and the rest of Seattle's personnel at the time. I don't think any NBA team is going to play Okafor at SF until he fills out.

FWIW my argument was "right now" rather than "as a rookie." As a rookie he'll have the benefit of summer league and training camp and time spent with pro staffs (not a Coach K slight, I don't think college staffs have multiple full time video coordinators and nutritionists and all that stuff). Like I said I think he's gonna be a great one, and if so he'll be in the top 15 next season. I was talking about pulling him out of school, driving him 4 hours north, and dropping him on the floor in a Wizards uniform to take on Ibaka and Adams tonight. I think he'd get destroyed. Not so much by Perkins, of course.