2015 ACC Basketball - CLOSED (use 2016 thread now) (2 Viewers)

[ConstruxBoy]

Damn...oh well.

He's not ready but can't blame him...he'd probably lose stock next year.

Yeah, good for him that he's even in a position to get drafted this high. I really would have liked to see him play more.

How high is "this high"? I think there is a very real possibility he doesn't get drafted in the first round.

From the article, K seems to think it will be in the 20-25 range from talking with NBA executives. I'd imagine K would have a good feel for it.

I agree he should have a good read on it given his contacts. It's just hard for me to believe that Jones is one of the top 20-25 players in this draft. Watching him play, he looks like a guy who will get abused on defense in the NBA and will likely struggle on offense against bigger and quicker NBA-level players. At the NBA level, won't Jones be below average in size, quickness, and athleticism? What does he excel at that makes up for those deficiencies?

Moxie

 

[TLEF316]

Jones is making a mistake. if he gets drafted in the 20's he'll be buried on a playoff team bench or schlepping around the d league next year.

Could shave gone 10 spots higher next year if he came back, gained some experience and bulked up a little bit. Happy the kid gets to live his dream but this was a short sighted decision based on his great tournament and not wanting to be left behind with his boys leaving

 

[Sammy3469]

Jones is making a mistake. if he gets drafted in the 20's he'll be buried on a playoff team bench or schlepping around the d league next year.

Could shave gone 10 spots higher next year if he came back, gained some experience and bulked up a little bit. Happy the kid gets to live his dream but this was a short sighted decision based on his great tournament and not wanting to be left behind with his boys leaving

I wouldn't be shocked at all if he/K got a guarantee from some team. If nothing else most all the teams in the 21-29 range (Chicago, Dallas, SA, Memphis, Houston, Cleveland, etc) will be looking for a backup PG. He's a step above Payne and there aren't a ton of PGs in this draft.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Jones is making a mistake. if he gets drafted in the 20's he'll be buried on a playoff team bench or schlepping around the d league next year.

Could shave gone 10 spots higher next year if he came back, gained some experience and bulked up a little bit. Happy the kid gets to live his dream but this was a short sighted decision based on his great tournament and not wanting to be left behind with his boys leaving

He could have gone ten spots higher if everything went absolutely perfectly for him. In the meantime he'd be sacrificing $1 million for that possibility.

He also could have lost millions if he tore his ACL. Or if his development regressed badly.

You guys seem stuck in the 80s-90s ideal of players not going to the NBA until they're ready to play there. That's no how it works any more. Very few rookies are ready for the grind and the tempo and the physicality they face at that level. And the college game doesn't help them get there any quicker than sitting on the bench learning from the best, or even playing in the D-league, does. In fact it probably hinders their development.

 

[MattFancy]

Jones is making a mistake. if he gets drafted in the 20's he'll be buried on a playoff team bench or schlepping around the d league next year.

Could shave gone 10 spots higher next year if he came back, gained some experience and bulked up a little bit. Happy the kid gets to live his dream but this was a short sighted decision based on his great tournament and not wanting to be left behind with his boys leaving

He could have gone ten spots higher if everything went absolutely perfectly for him. In the meantime he'd be sacrificing $1 million for that possibility.

He also could have lost millions if he tore his ACL. Or if his development regressed badly.

You guys seem stuck in the 80s-90s ideal of players not going to the NBA until they're ready to play there. That's no how it works any more. Very few rookies are ready for the grind and the tempo and the physicality they face at that level. And the college game doesn't help them get there any quicker than sitting on the bench learning from the best, or even playing in the D-league, does. In fact it probably hinders their development.

It's tough because on one hand, you'd like the guys to stay to help out the team. On the other, if some company offered me $1M+ during my freshmen year of college, I'd prolly leave too.

 

[Sammy3469]

Jones is making a mistake. if he gets drafted in the 20's he'll be buried on a playoff team bench or schlepping around the d league next year.

Could shave gone 10 spots higher next year if he came back, gained some experience and bulked up a little bit. Happy the kid gets to live his dream but this was a short sighted decision based on his great tournament and not wanting to be left behind with his boys leaving

He could have gone ten spots higher if everything went absolutely perfectly for him. In the meantime he'd be sacrificing $1 million for that possibility.

He also could have lost millions if he tore his ACL. Or if his development regressed badly.

You guys seem stuck in the 80s-90s ideal of players not going to the NBA until they're ready to play there. That's no how it works any more. Very few rookies are ready for the grind and the tempo and the physicality they face at that level. And the college game doesn't help them get there any quicker than sitting on the bench learning from the best, or even playing in the D-league, does. In fact it probably hinders their development.

Especially his. Yes, he has his faults, but he's absolutely a backup PG that can effectively run a pro pick and roll. That has a ton of value during the grind of regular season to a playoff team. There's nothing wrong with playing 10-15 minutes a night and learning from Carlisle or Pop or LeBron or Budholzer, etc. If that's all he becomes, so be it, but he'll be getting NBA paychecks for awhile.

 

[TLEF316]

I guess the thing that bothers me is that the early entry "not ready" guys used to be the physical freaks. Sure they weren't ready to produce right now, but they had all star (or at least very good starter) potential.

Now you've got Jones who is probably 5'11 165 and not that athletic going one and done. even if everything breaks right for him he'll never be more than the 20th best pg in the league.

To me this is more about not wanting to be left behind and the media trying to hype everyone than what's best for long term development (and I don't even disagree that going to the nba will help most of these guys get better faster)

 

[Just Win Baby]

Jones is making a mistake. if he gets drafted in the 20's he'll be buried on a playoff team bench or schlepping around the d league next year.

Could shave gone 10 spots higher next year if he came back, gained some experience and bulked up a little bit. Happy the kid gets to live his dream but this was a short sighted decision based on his great tournament and not wanting to be left behind with his boys leaving

I wouldn't be shocked at all if he/K got a guarantee from some team. If nothing else most all the teams in the 21-29 range (Chicago, Dallas, SA, Memphis, Houston, Cleveland, etc) will be looking for a backup PG. He's a step above Payne and there aren't a ton of PGs in this draft.

The Spurs have Mills as their backup PG. Don't think they would need Jones. Not sure about the other teams.

 

[Just Win Baby]

Now you've got Jones who is probably 5'11 165 and not that athletic going one and done. even if everything breaks right for him he'll never be more than the 20th best pg in the league.

This is how I see it as well.

If Jones is going to be a first round pick, I think it is smart for him to go, so I agree with Tobias there. I just fail to understand why he would be a first round pick.

As for those who are touting his pick and roll ability, he's going to have to work on his shot quite a bit to be much of a threat there at the NBA level.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I guess the thing that bothers me is that the early entry "not ready" guys used to be the physical freaks. Sure they weren't ready to produce right now, but they had all star (or at least very good starter) potential.

Now you've got Jones who is probably 5'11 165 and not that athletic going one and done. even if everything breaks right for him he'll never be more than the 20th best pg in the league.

To me this is more about not wanting to be left behind and the media trying to hype everyone than what's best for long term development (and I don't even disagree that going to the nba will help most of these guys get better faster)

Yeah it's hard to reconcile. It took me several years of NBA fandom to come to terms with it, because it's obviously doing some damage to the college game we all grew up with. A guy like Jones has been to the mountaintop, though. There's just not much left for him at this level, far more to lose than to gain. And there's a lot of quality organizations drafting between 20 and 30 with a need at backup PG.

 

[Worm]

Sigh.

Lacey gone.

Unbelievable.

 

[Worm]

I mean seriously. :/

 

[TLEF316]

Wow. That's a shocker. not sure he makes the first round

 

[TobiasFunke]

Wow. That's a shocker. not sure he makes the first round

Chad Ford has him at #96. Not that Chad Ford is the be-all end-all, but that's not good. OTOH, he's 23. Gotta start getting paid to play, even if it's in the D-league or overseas.

Honestly, after watching the James Michael McAdoo saga play out I have a hard time criticizing anyone's decisions. He stayed when he should left, when he finally did leave he got trashed for it and went undrafted, and now he's in a dream situation. Who the hell knows.

 

[tdoss]

Make or break season for Gott?

Or has he finally earned himself some time/respect/slack?

I'm not sure why anyone would even ask this question (besides pantherclub).

Gott is easily the best State coach since Valvano. IMO the only ACC coaches who are clearly better are K, Roy, Pitino, Boeheim, and Bennett, and 4 of those 5 (at least) will end up in the HOF. I posted a few weeks ago about Gott's accomplishments so far, which have been impressive IMO. Most notable is his postseason work: 7-4 in the ACC tournament, 4 out of 4 NCAA tournament bids with a 5-4 record and 2 Sweet 16s. That kind of record could only put a coach in a make or break situation at a program that has a long track record of winning, which State obviously does not have over the past 25 years since Valvano departed.

I'm in the guy's corner...I just keep hearing others try to act like he's on borrowed time.I can't see how it's possible...

And I agree that next season should be very good for State.

Where are you hearing that Gott is on borrowed time?

No media...just random State fans that are expecting a jump next year. Failing that...he'll be back on the hot seat.

Seems hard to believe he's still under pressure.

 

[Just Win Baby]

Sigh.

Lacey gone.

Unbelievable.

Well, on the bright side, now we know where the minutes will come from for the Martin twins. They and Henderson should split SG/SF. Heck, this might even open the door to Gott considering occasional use of a big lineup with 3 of Washington, Abu, Lacey, and Freeman on the floor.

It also theoretically could increase the likelihood that Malik Newman chooses State, though I assume that is a long shot.

ETA: Lacey is supposedly not hiring an agent, so it remains possible that he tests the waters and returns. But his statement didn't make that sound likely.

 

[NutterButter]

Damn...oh well.

He's not ready but can't blame him...he'd probably lose stock next year.

Yeah, good for him that he's even in a position to get drafted this high. I really would have liked to see him play more.

How high is "this high"? I think there is a very real possibility he doesn't get drafted in the first round.

From the article, K seems to think it will be in the 20-25 range from talking with NBA executives. I'd imagine K would have a good feel for it.

I agree he should have a good read on it given his contacts. It's just hard for me to believe that Jones is one of the top 20-25 players in this draft. Watching him play, he looks like a guy who will get abused on defense in the NBA and will likely struggle on offense against bigger and quicker NBA-level players. At the NBA level, won't Jones be below average in size, quickness, and athleticism? What does he excel at that makes up for those deficiencies?

could be a john stockton like player. jones shoots the ball pretty well from deep, has a high bb iq, distributes it well while taking care of it and he's as tough as they come. not saying he produce anywhere near stockton levels, but there's some similarities.

 

[Worm]

Transfer rumors too. Washington maybe.

Good times.

:statefan:

 

[Yenrub]

Surprised that Lacey is leaving but considering his age I understand it. He may not be ranked high for NBA purposes but I’m sure he can make good money overseas.

Kyle Washington leaving is a bummer I liked him. He brought a lot of energy and toughness

How many guys have transferred from the program under Gott? Seems like a lot

 

[TLEF316]

Duke signed some huge croatian kid from Florida. His dad played in the league back in the mid 90's.

Can't teach 7 feet

 

[Just Win Baby]

Surprised that Lacey is leaving but considering his age I understand it. He may not be ranked high for NBA purposes but I’m sure he can make good money overseas.

Kyle Washington leaving is a bummer I liked him. He brought a lot of energy and toughness

How many guys have transferred from the program under Gott? Seems like a lot

These players have transferred out since Gott took the head coaching job (in 5 offseasons): Harrow, De Thaey, Raymond, Harris, Painter, Purvis, Lewis, Washington. For the most part, I don't think the program suffered from those losses. Painter was the one guy who really hurt, with his departure contributing to the disappointing season in 2012-13.

I would attribute the first 4 guys on that list to the coaching turnover, and Painter left due to a family situation. Gott has had 3 of his own recruits transfer out: Purvis, Lewis, and Washington. I don't really expect any of those three departures to hurt the program. Washington wasn't playing much at all down the stretch this year when State played well.

Meanwhile, these players have transferred in: Alex Johnson, Turner, Lacey, Lee, Henderson. Worst case, it has been a wash, and IMO the program has gained overall.

What has really hurt the program is the early departures to go pro: Brown, Leslie, Warren, Lacey. All of those players would have been difference makers had they stayed longer. Although I suppose it is possible that if they stayed longer, the program may not have gotten all of the same recruits.

This is major college basketball in 2015. For a non-elite program (i.e., a program that cannot bank on elite recruits every year), I think Gott has managed it pretty well.

 

[tdoss]

Derryck Thornton commits to Duke for upcoming season instead of 2016 with L'Ville or Kentucky.

That Duke/UNC game visit sealed it.

Not a bad replacement...

 

[TLEF316]

I haven't seen him as much as I saw tyus but apparently he's a really good distributor and a great on ball defender.

They needed him for next year so awesome job closing him so quick.

 

[tdoss]

Any spare Okafor's out there?

Or maybe a Kaminsky that'll commit for four years?

 

[Sammy3469]

Derryck Thornton commits to Duke for upcoming season instead of 2016 with L'Ville or Kentucky.

That Duke/UNC game visit sealed it.

Not a bad replacement...

:confetti:

 

[NutterButter]

Enormous pickup. It would've been ugly with Jones or Allen running the point.

 

[TLEF316]

Enormous pickup. It would've been ugly with Jones or Allen running the point.

I think the plan was actually kennard. Hes the best passer of that crew.This is better. I think Dylan ennis was a real option as well if DT had declined to reclassify.

 

[tdoss]

I was a bit concerned with Tyus jumping and not seeing a true point guard on the horizon.

Big get by K.

So next year's team will look something like this:

Derryck Thornton - He should push the pace.

Grayson Allen - Definitely going to be charlie hustle on the court. Should be fun to watch.

Luke Kennard or Matt Jones - You guys know my opinion here. I'd assume Kennard takes this but hey, if Jones is able to earn it...then all the better for Duke.

Chase Jeter, Amile Jefferson, Sean Obi & Marshall Plumlee - Nice platoon of guys at F/C

Not a bad lineup really...looks like the frontcourt will be a constant rotation with some great depth and different looks. I'm still waiting for Jones to win me over...if he does, it should be awesome to watch. Grayson and Thornton will definitely be a lot to deal with...not a bad backcourt. Definitely a step down from Tyus and Winslow, obviously.

So...they definitely won't be as good as last year and will probably have less versatility...but should have better depth overall.

It'll be interesting to see how K shuffles some of these guys in and out...can't wait.

 

[NutterButter]

With thornton, allen and jones, that's one trio of guards that will put a #### ton of pressure on the ball.

 

[TLEF316]

And dont forget about Ingram. Based on the interview he gave last night, it seems like he's almost certainly Duke bound. ESPN bumped him up to # 3 in the country after the McD's game. The other services will probably have him squarely in the top 10 as well. Potential game changer on offense

 

[Sammy3469]

And dont forget about Ingram. Based on the interview he gave last night, it seems like he's almost certainly Duke bound. ESPN bumped him up to # 3 in the country after the McD's game. The other services will probably have him squarely in the top 10 as well. Potential game changer on offense

Yeah. I think they need him to have any shot at a repeat. Even with Thornton, they still only have one guy that I sort of trust on offense (Allen). Ingram would give them a bunch of different ways to play and their length would be a tad absurd.

BTW, Ingram apparently said UNC got their NOA from the NCAA on April 17th.

 

[NMYMND]

And dont forget about Ingram. Based on the interview he gave last night, it seems like he's almost certainly Duke bound. ESPN bumped him up to # 3 in the country after the McD's game. The other services will probably have him squarely in the top 10 as well. Potential game changer on offense

Yeah. I think they need him to have any shot at a repeat. Even with Thornton, they still only have one guy that I sort of trust on offense (Allen). Ingram would give them a bunch of different ways to play and their length would be a tad absurd.

BTW, Ingram apparently said UNC got their NOA from the NCAA on April 17th.

FWIW, UNC has flatly denied this, as apparently pretty much every sportswriter I follow on twitter must have contacted them about it.

As far as the Duke recruiting juggernaut, what does this mean for Calipari? His advantage for the past several years has been taking the best possible freshman and primarily out-talenting everyone else. What does he do now that K is going to mix that approach with better coaching.

 

[tdoss]

And dont forget about Ingram. Based on the interview he gave last night, it seems like he's almost certainly Duke bound. ESPN bumped him up to # 3 in the country after the McD's game. The other services will probably have him squarely in the top 10 as well. Potential game changer on offense

Yeah. I think they need him to have any shot at a repeat. Even with Thornton, they still only have one guy that I sort of trust on offense (Allen). Ingram would give them a bunch of different ways to play and their length would be a tad absurd.

BTW, Ingram apparently said UNC got their NOA from the NCAA on April 17th.

Agreed...Ingram would give them that extra gear. Like you said...there's too many questions on offense even with that lineup.Amile is awkward and has hand of stone sometimes...so he's better served at rebounding, defense and occasional cleanup basket.

Plumlee has that oaf thing down. No real ball handling just lob dunks and defense until he gets the fouls. Footwork is just too slow to be dependable.

Jones...just seems like a hit or miss. He'll have streaky games and disappear at times I'm my opinion.

Allen and Thornton can't be the only scoring options. Especially since they'll also have their off games.

Ingram would really give this team that option that can be relied on most games.

Still should be a fun team to watch regardless...because Jeter, Obi and Kennard will be a hot hand from time to time.

 

[TLEF316]

And dont forget about Ingram. Based on the interview he gave last night, it seems like he's almost certainly Duke bound. ESPN bumped him up to # 3 in the country after the McD's game. The other services will probably have him squarely in the top 10 as well. Potential game changer on offense

Yeah. I think they need him to have any shot at a repeat. Even with Thornton, they still only have one guy that I sort of trust on offense (Allen). Ingram would give them a bunch of different ways to play and their length would be a tad absurd.

BTW, Ingram apparently said UNC got their NOA from the NCAA on April 17th.

Agreed...Ingram would give them that extra gear. Like you said...there's too many questions on offense even with that lineup.Amile is awkward and has hand of stone sometimes...so he's better served at rebounding, defense and occasional cleanup basket.

Plumlee has that oaf thing down. No real ball handling just lob dunks and defense until he gets the fouls. Footwork is just too slow to be dependable.

Jones...just seems like a hit or miss. He'll have streaky games and disappear at times I'm my opinion.

Allen and Thornton can't be the only scoring options. Especially since they'll also have their off games.

Ingram would really give this team that option that can be relied on most games.

Still should be a fun team to watch regardless...because Jeter, Obi and Kennard will be a hot hand from time to time.

Don't sleep on Luke Kennard. The kid is an absolute lights out shooter and very crafty with the ball. His HS competition was utter crap (he averaged over 40 ppg this year) but he has performed well in other places. He was the 2nd leading scorer on the U-19 team from last summer that featured Winslow, Stanley Johnson, Tyus Jones, Myles Turner, Jaylen Brown and a bunch of other 2015 5 star recruits. Only Johnson outscored him (14.0 to 13.8) and Kennard shot significantly fewer shots. With all the NBA defections off of last summer's qualifying team, it would be pretty surprising if Kennard doesn't make the roster for the U-19 world's in June.

Wouldn't be surprised to see a Jon Scheyer (yes, I'm comparing him to another white guy of similar height) type freshman year out of him. Somewhere around 10-11 PPG with a 3 point percentage close to 40%.

 

[deancheated]

This thread has a lot of passionate and knowledgable fans.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I mean, what are the odds that there is another compulsive alias user who is too stupid to use innocent handles like Eastwood or Grape Ape, but goes straight for Deancheated, yet feels comfortable enough to just jump in this thread with an asinine observation?

Welcome back Rip!

 

[deancheated]

I mean, what are the odds that there is another compulsive alias user who is too stupid to use innocent handles like Eastwood or Grape Ape, but goes straight for Deancheated, yet feels comfortable enough to just jump in this thread with an asinine observation?

Welcome back Rip!

Granted I'm not an expert around here being new, but calling others stupid doesn't sound like what Joe expects of posters here. Perhaps you missed his guidelines? I can give you a link if you'd like.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

 

[ConstruxBoy]

llllllllllllllloooooooooooooooooollllllllllllllllllllll

 

[tdoss]

There goes the neighborhood.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Excited about this development, especially with Duke having just taken a kid from Findlay Prep who reclassified.

UNC Basketball: Say what you will, at least our players (probably) got high school educations!

 

[drfeelgood]

I mean, what are the odds that there is another compulsive alias user who is too stupid to use innocent handles like Eastwood or Grape Ape, but goes straight for Deancheated, yet feels comfortable enough to just jump in this thread with an asinine observation?

Welcome back Rip!

What was asinine about it?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I mean, what are the odds that there is another compulsive alias user who is too stupid to use innocent handles like Eastwood or Grape Ape, but goes straight for Deancheated, yet feels comfortable enough to just jump in this thread with an asinine observation?

Welcome back Rip!

What was asinine about it?

I think it's asinine to make a fake "Hi there guys, I'm new here and I like everybody" statement when you are trying to hide that you are a well known, generally disliked user (except by most State fans of course, who share his hate of UNC).

Having said that, asinine is probably not the best descriptor I could have used there. Sorry.

 

[Just Win Baby]

I mean, what are the odds that there is another compulsive alias user who is too stupid to use innocent handles like Eastwood or Grape Ape, but goes straight for Deancheated, yet feels comfortable enough to just jump in this thread with an asinine observation?

Welcome back Rip!

What was asinine about it?

I think it's asinine to make a fake "Hi there guys, I'm new here and I like everybody" statement when you are trying to hide that you are a well known, generally disliked user (except by most State fans of course, who share his hate of UNC).

Having said that, asinine is probably not the best descriptor I could have used there. Sorry.

Name one State fan who likes Rip. I don't think you can.

 

[deancheated]

Really excited that Top 3 recruit Ingram is announcing at his Kingston high school Monday. Makes me think my Tarheels are in great shape and will Be getting a great player who should help us climb back to the top of the conference!

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I mean, what are the odds that there is another compulsive alias user who is too stupid to use innocent handles like Eastwood or Grape Ape, but goes straight for Deancheated, yet feels comfortable enough to just jump in this thread with an asinine observation?

Welcome back Rip!

What was asinine about it?

I think it's asinine to make a fake "Hi there guys, I'm new here and I like everybody" statement when you are trying to hide that you are a well known, generally disliked user (except by most State fans of course, who share his hate of UNC).

Having said that, asinine is probably not the best descriptor I could have used there. Sorry.

Name one State fan who likes Rip. I don't think you can.

drfeelgood does. And I think simey and pantherclub think he's OK.

FWIW - I wasn't considering you in that group. You have too much integrity. But I get the hate. I'm amazed as an "outsider" living in Charlotte how many people hate UNC just because they dominated the conference 30 years ago. The whole ABC thing is both amusing and confusing. I mean, a lot has happened since then. Always makes me think about that scene in Dumb and Dumber..."Hey everybody, we landed on the moon!!!"

Anyway, the truth is that I have him on ignore and yet still see his posts and 95% of the time, it's a State fan. The other 5% it's Tobias or Wreck taking stinky bait.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Really excited that Top 3 recruit Ingram is announcing at his Kingston high school Monday. Makes me think my Tarheels are in great shape and will Be getting a great player who should help us climb back to the top of the conference!

So your user name is Dean cheated, but they are your Tarheels? Wow. You must be really upset that Dean Cain cheated on Teri Hatcher.

 

[chauncey]

Really excited that Top 3 recruit Ingram is announcing at his Kingston high school Monday. Makes me think my Tarheels are in great shape and will Be getting a great player who should help us climb back to the top of the conference!

So your user name is Dean cheated, but they are your Tarheels? Wow. You must be really upset that Dean Cain cheated on Teri Hatcher.

Is this a reference to the "pay for play" scandal that was made public a few months ago?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Really excited that Top 3 recruit Ingram is announcing at his Kingston high school Monday. Makes me think my Tarheels are in great shape and will Be getting a great player who should help us climb back to the top of the conference!

So your user name is Dean cheated, but they are your Tarheels? Wow. You must be really upset that Dean Cain cheated on Teri Hatcher.

Is this a reference to the "pay for play" scandal that was made public a few months ago?

No need to get the thread any further off course.