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I think they have the core in place to be dangerous this year...
Gotta have the shooters to spread the floor and let Paige run wild and Meeks and Johnson dominate inside. I have tons of faith in those three guys, but zero faith in the freshmen being able to knock down 3s consistently. Most guys aren't deadly from outside until they've got a year or two under their belt.
Johnson can step into the McAdoo role nicely, JMM is a guy who never lived up to the hype, he was solid, but not what he was supposed to be and I think Brice can be just as solid.
Hi everyone...hope all has been well.
at Tobias' total loss of credibility in this thread. You knew he'd go on the offensive, but damn. Just horrible and laughable at the same time. In Tobias's defense... He wasn't seeking credibility when talking about that UNC report. He was just trying to piss people off.Then he denied accusations of arrogance and condescension with more arrogance and condescension. I enjoy brazen hypocrisy on the Internet as much as anyone. That was solid.
In Tobias's defense... He wasn't seeking credibility when talking about that UNC report. He was just trying to piss people off.Then he denied accusations of arrogance and condescension with more arrogance and condescension. I enjoy brazen hypocrisy on the Internet as much as anyone. That was solid.
And he capped it off by claiming he tries not to say negative things about other users here. When does he want us to think he enacted that policy? During lunch today?
Some thoughts here, they're not favorable:Tango said:
I agree with both of those. All I've done here is stick to the facts of the report as they pertain to the men's basketball team. Of course the report is embarrassing for the school and the athletic program and certain programs in particular, namely women's basketball and football. If I was a big fan or the women's basketball team or the football team, or was particularly concerned with UNC's undergraduate academic reputation, I'd find the report troubling and the activities described there unacceptable. But I'm not.
Any time I slip up feel free to call me out on it.
Do you want links to all the Walden e-mails in the document dump?I agree with both of those. All I've done here is stick to the facts of the report as they pertain to the men's basketball team. Of course the report is embarrassing for the school and the athletic program and certain programs in particular, namely women's basketball and football. If I was a big fan or the women's basketball team or the football team, or was particularly concerned with UNC's undergraduate academic reputation, I'd find the report troubling and the activities described there unacceptable. But I'm not.
I asked for something concrete from the report that condemns the men's basketball team two days ago after citing to several different findings, passages and statements at the PC that exonerate them. Two days later and I'm still waiting for it.
Unfortunately ConstruxBoy is right- the NCAA isn't a court of law so they can levy punishments based on a whim or political pressure if they desire. But I think they'd be hard-pressed to do something to the basketball team based on this report without ending up in court like they did with Penn State, esp because I seriously doubt they're getting a consent decree that impacts the basketball team. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows. But based on the perceptions and expectations going in, that report is absolutely good news for the MBB program. No doubt about it.
And I absolutely try not to say negative things about posters. Posts, sure, that's part of the fun, but never posters.
Sure- haven't seen them. Like I said, all I've seen is the report itself and all I've heard are the comments made at the press conference. I said there's nothing there that condemns MBB. If there's something in the source documents that you think doesn't come across in the final report, lay it on me.Do you want links to all the Walden e-mails in the document dump?I agree with both of those. All I've done here is stick to the facts of the report as they pertain to the men's basketball team. Of course the report is embarrassing for the school and the athletic program and certain programs in particular, namely women's basketball and football. If I was a big fan or the women's basketball team or the football team, or was particularly concerned with UNC's undergraduate academic reputation, I'd find the report troubling and the activities described there unacceptable. But I'm not.
I asked for something concrete from the report that condemns the men's basketball team two days ago after citing to several different findings, passages and statements at the PC that exonerate them. Two days later and I'm still waiting for it.
Unfortunately ConstruxBoy is right- the NCAA isn't a court of law so they can levy punishments based on a whim or political pressure if they desire. But I think they'd be hard-pressed to do something to the basketball team based on this report without ending up in court like they did with Penn State, esp because I seriously doubt they're getting a consent decree that impacts the basketball team. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows. But based on the perceptions and expectations going in, that report is absolutely good news for the MBB program. No doubt about it.
And I absolutely try not to say negative things about posters. Posts, sure, that's part of the fun, but never posters.
It was 54 from 1988 until 1997 (the period Wainstein looked at) and from the charts in the document the 1988-92 period had a handful of enrollments, so while it wasn't 54, it was still a substantial number. If that's what you're hanging your hat on, good luck.Sure- haven't seen them. Like I said, all I've seen is the report itself and all I've heard are the comments made at the press conference. I said there's nothing there that condemns MBB. If there's something in the source documents that you think doesn't come across in the final report, lay it on me.Do you want links to all the Walden e-mails in the document dump?I agree with both of those. All I've done here is stick to the facts of the report as they pertain to the men's basketball team. Of course the report is embarrassing for the school and the athletic program and certain programs in particular, namely women's basketball and football. If I was a big fan or the women's basketball team or the football team, or was particularly concerned with UNC's undergraduate academic reputation, I'd find the report troubling and the activities described there unacceptable. But I'm not.
I asked for something concrete from the report that condemns the men's basketball team two days ago after citing to several different findings, passages and statements at the PC that exonerate them. Two days later and I'm still waiting for it.
Unfortunately ConstruxBoy is right- the NCAA isn't a court of law so they can levy punishments based on a whim or political pressure if they desire. But I think they'd be hard-pressed to do something to the basketball team based on this report without ending up in court like they did with Penn State, esp because I seriously doubt they're getting a consent decree that impacts the basketball team. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows. But based on the perceptions and expectations going in, that report is absolutely good news for the MBB program. No doubt about it.
And I absolutely try not to say negative things about posters. Posts, sure, that's part of the fun, but never posters.
And while we're playing nice, it might be nice if you'd admit you were wrong about the "54 players taking fake classes under Dean Smith from 1993-1997" thing that was explicitly refuted in the footnote I cited.
How long do you think you've gone since the last time you said something negative about another poster here?And I absolutely try not to say negative things about posters. Posts, sure, that's part of the fun, but never posters.
Here's the text:It was 54 from 1988 until 1997 (the period Wainstein looked at) and from the charts in the document the 1988-92 period had a handful of enrollments, so while it wasn't 54, it was still a substantial number. If that's what you're hanging your hat on, good luck.Sure- haven't seen them. Like I said, all I've seen is the report itself and all I've heard are the comments made at the press conference. I said there's nothing there that condemns MBB. If there's something in the source documents that you think doesn't come across in the final report, lay it on me.Do you want links to all the Walden e-mails in the document dump?I agree with both of those. All I've done here is stick to the facts of the report as they pertain to the men's basketball team. Of course the report is embarrassing for the school and the athletic program and certain programs in particular, namely women's basketball and football. If I was a big fan or the women's basketball team or the football team, or was particularly concerned with UNC's undergraduate academic reputation, I'd find the report troubling and the activities described there unacceptable. But I'm not.
I asked for something concrete from the report that condemns the men's basketball team two days ago after citing to several different findings, passages and statements at the PC that exonerate them. Two days later and I'm still waiting for it.
Unfortunately ConstruxBoy is right- the NCAA isn't a court of law so they can levy punishments based on a whim or political pressure if they desire. But I think they'd be hard-pressed to do something to the basketball team based on this report without ending up in court like they did with Penn State, esp because I seriously doubt they're getting a consent decree that impacts the basketball team. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows. But based on the perceptions and expectations going in, that report is absolutely good news for the MBB program. No doubt about it.
And I absolutely try not to say negative things about posters. Posts, sure, that's part of the fun, but never posters.
And while we're playing nice, it might be nice if you'd admit you were wrong about the "54 players taking fake classes under Dean Smith from 1993-1997" thing that was explicitly refuted in the footnote I cited.
Beats me. I try to avoid it and stick to criticizing posts only.How long do you think you've gone since the last time you said something negative about another poster here?And I absolutely try not to say negative things about posters. Posts, sure, that's part of the fun, but never posters.
It hasn't worked, though.Beats me. I try to avoid it and stick to criticizing posts only.How long do you think you've gone since the last time you said something negative about another poster here?And I absolutely try not to say negative things about posters. Posts, sure, that's part of the fun, but never posters.
Hey, we're none of us perfect. Feel free to let me know next time you think I'm going after someone personally here or anywhere else. Keep going at me in this thread if you want, though. It's been a slow week at work and find it this whole thing pretty hilarious.It hasn't worked, though.Beats me. I try to avoid it and stick to criticizing posts only.How long do you think you've gone since the last time you said something negative about another poster here?And I absolutely try not to say negative things about posters. Posts, sure, that's part of the fun, but never posters.
I'm glad to hear that you're happy, you seem like a good guy. But that doesn't change the fact that you made a mistake at best and flat-out lied at worst about the Smith-era numbers and what they mean, continued to do so even after I pointed out the mistake, and are now flatly refusing to own up to it by trying to change the subject.
I suppose if I was caught in an obvious mistake or lie and for some reason didn't want to admit it that's what I'd say too.
I don't believe Calipari was punished, for exactly the reason you state- no proof that he know. I know the school had to vacate wins inc. a Final Four appearance, but that was for use of a player retroactively determined to be ineligible, which is standard operating procedure for every school and player except Duke/Corey Maggette.
None of the other schools who had players involved in the Myron piggie scandal vacated wins either.
Hmm. Tough call. I guess calling it "standard operating procedure" was arguably misleading. As the Myron Piggie scandal shows, the NCAA has other punishment mechanisms it may opt for in cases of wrongdoing if the player is still in college, as was the case with the other players/schools involved in the Piggie scandal- those players were suspended going forward for their involvement. Obviously that wasn't an option for Maggette/Duke, however. So if you interpret that to mean that vacating win in these cases isn't standard operating procedure because there's other options available in cases where the facts are different, I apologize for being misleading.
link
The truth is all I ask for. 36 enrollments in paper classes from 1993-1997 it is.
I'm sure the 3 basketball players in the Spring of 1993 did all their required work and it was the one lowly regular student who she "helped" and that both the basketball players who were the only enrolled members in the Summer of 1994 didn't get any benefit.
Semantics? Isn't "sham classes" the entire thrust of the scandal? Seems reasonable to expect people to be accurate when it comes to how many of these sham classes where taken and when they were taken.
Lemme try this again.
Yes, semantics. Arguing whether it's 54 or 37, whether it was "all" paper classes/enrollments or "most" or "some", etc. It happened. It happened in the football program. It happened in the basketball program.
You'll have to ask Sammy why it's so important to him to allege that a significant amount of fraud happened during the Smith era. I think it has something to do with some completely unfounded theory that the whole thing started to keep players eligible after the 1993 season for the powerhouse 93-94 squad? I'm not quite sure.
I get the UNC faithful's position on how many, but why do you care about the when? I've been told my whole life of the "Carolina Way" and all that good shtick. It seems to me "when" isn't a particular matter of concern. That it's ever happened at all is more pragmatic when looking at it through the "Carolina Way" lens. Or perhaps you don't care and are just arguing to argue. I can't keep track any more.
Dean Smith is suffering from dementia right now, is that correct? I have to admit that it stinks that he cannot defend himself in any way here.
Because my main concern is the men's basketball team, not the reputation of the undergraduate program or the women's basketball team or the football team or the athletics department. To the extent I care about that stuff I'll totally own the fact that the whole thing is a complete ####storm. And as I've said many times over the years I never ever bought or even liked that "Carolina Way" stuffThe Commish said:
You routinely pass judgment on others' motives, biases, and intelligence levels. That's beyond criticizing their posts; that's attacking character.TobiasFunke said:Beats me. I try to avoid it and stick to criticizing posts only.Bruce Dickinson said:How long do you think you've gone since the last time you said something negative about another poster here?TobiasFunke said:And I absolutely try not to say negative things about posters. Posts, sure, that's part of the fun, but never posters.
Ah the Kabuki theatre continues. Perhaps you missed the part where Crowder herself said this started in 1993. Or, the part where by Wainstein's calculation there were 15 basketball semesters from 1999-2011 that would have been below 2.0. Or, the fact that Wayne Walden acknowledged he knew how the classes worked. But then again we know you don't care.
No, I saw all of that.
Just an FYI, but Wainstein has taken a position that all the paper classes were bogus. Feel free to prove otherwise.
