oso diablo
Footballguy
well, i think that would be pretty weird, too.How so...other than it being an outsider looking in? Not any more "weird" than adefending K at all costs regardless of the realities around him/her. Just different.
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2015 ACC Basketball - CLOSED (use 2016 thread now) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter oso diablo
- Start date
TLEF316
Footballguy
It wasn't just "extending him a roster spot". (We're talking about Karl Towns, by the way, for those that don't follow recruiting) They basically got a month long on campus visit with a sophomore by putting him on the team (The DR training camp was on the UK campus in the early summer of 2012). He probably would have ended up at Kentucky anyway, but there was zero chance of him going elsewhere after that. He committed like 2 months later.TobiasFunke said:
Don't get me wrong. K's spot as USA's coach is a big advantage. But I honestly don't think him popping by a practice is as big of a deal as Sean Miller or Billy Donovan getting a month straight to work with the U-19 or U-17 teams. That's a HUGE deal. They're going overseas with elite recruits and giving them a very long look at what its really like to play for them. The fact that that's being glossed over while K gets ripped apart for some instagram photos is pretty silly to me.
In my opinion, you cant compare the "contact" Harrison Barnes had with the ISU staff with the kind of influence that the youth team coaches have on USA basketball (especially since an elite recruit like Barnes was never staying at ISU anyway). Its apples and oranges. The true cream of the crop kids almost never stay home at a 2nd rate program.
Archer
Footballguy
A good response to that bs article that tried ripping on K...
"The absolute worst part was Wojnarowski's assertion that Krzyzewski used George's injury as a photo op:
At the foot of George's hospital bed, someone had been waiting to snap the photo of the U.S. national coach reaching down and embracing his stricken player.
Suddenly, this most private and personal moment turned out to be anything but that. Within minutes, that image would be flying through Twitter and Instagram for all those moms and dads to see the compassion and caring of Duke's coach.
As Syracuse coach Jim Boeheim pointed out yesterday, the photo was taken by George's parents and tweeted out by them. Krzyzewski got quite emotional Thursday as the assertion that it was all a setup to promote his image.
"It was a really bad thing to bring up Paul George," Krzyzewski said. "After he was injured, USA Basketball was in the trauma room - me, Jerry [Colangelo] and a bunch of NBA people. There were too many people so they asked everybody but the family to leave."
Most of the USA Basketball people left town the next morning. Krzyzewski was staying over with his family.
"I went back to the hospital the next day," Coach K said. "ESPN had cameras in front of the hospital. We were able to go through a back entrance. I was able to spend half an hour with Paul - his mom, dad and two sisters, a couple of friends and his girlfriend.
"I did not take any pictures. I did not know a picture was taken. To say that I orchestrated that and used Paul George is really wrong. And for anybody to think that, then you are a bad person. That was done secretly. To put it out any other way, well, you're really reaching."
"The absolute worst part was Wojnarowski's assertion that Krzyzewski used George's injury as a photo op:
At the foot of George's hospital bed, someone had been waiting to snap the photo of the U.S. national coach reaching down and embracing his stricken player.
Suddenly, this most private and personal moment turned out to be anything but that. Within minutes, that image would be flying through Twitter and Instagram for all those moms and dads to see the compassion and caring of Duke's coach.
As Syracuse coach Jim Boeheim pointed out yesterday, the photo was taken by George's parents and tweeted out by them. Krzyzewski got quite emotional Thursday as the assertion that it was all a setup to promote his image.
"It was a really bad thing to bring up Paul George," Krzyzewski said. "After he was injured, USA Basketball was in the trauma room - me, Jerry [Colangelo] and a bunch of NBA people. There were too many people so they asked everybody but the family to leave."
Most of the USA Basketball people left town the next morning. Krzyzewski was staying over with his family.
"I went back to the hospital the next day," Coach K said. "ESPN had cameras in front of the hospital. We were able to go through a back entrance. I was able to spend half an hour with Paul - his mom, dad and two sisters, a couple of friends and his girlfriend.
"I did not take any pictures. I did not know a picture was taken. To say that I orchestrated that and used Paul George is really wrong. And for anybody to think that, then you are a bad person. That was done secretly. To put it out any other way, well, you're really reaching."
The Commish
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
As far as I can tell from a 30 second twitter search the picture was taken by a professional sports photographer who also took a shot of Floyd Mayweather with Paul George that same day.
Mayweather/George
He was probably hiding in the linen closet for Coach K's visit, though.
The Commish
Footballguy
Good on George's parent(s) for being savy enough to start a side business as professional sports photographersAs far as I can tell from a 30 second twitter search the picture was taken by a professional sports photographer who also took a shot of Floyd Mayweather with Paul George that same day.
Mayweather/George
He was probably hiding in the linen closet for Coach K's visit, though.
At any rate, that wasn't really why I was laughing. It was the posting of this several days ago, it going dead basically, and Rip coming back with an "explanation" of the events to make sure K's name was free and clear.
Archer
Footballguy
Archer
Footballguy
Love hearing what K is saying about Amile, who is probably my favorite player on the team.
“This freshman class is just ahead, maturity wise,” Krzyzewski said Thursday. “With our team right now, it’s not sophomores, freshmen, juniors and seniors. They are just Duke basketball players. The freshmen are not freshmen. They are Duke basketball players. That differentiation doesn’t happen all the time. It doesn’t happen most of the time. With this group, it has. We saw that during the summer. This group is real close. Real close.”
Last season, a team built around eventual first-round NBA draft picks in freshman Jabari Parker and transfer Rodney Hood went 26-9 and lost its NCAA Tournament opener to Mercer. Krzyzewski cited a lack of internal leadership as a reason and vowed to do a better job of cultivating it this offseason.
“I had confidence in Jon and Nate, I just didn’t know how far along the team was going to be,” Krzyzewski said.
But the maturity of the freshmen, which he said was enhanced by their own USA Basketball gold medal experiences playing on Under-17 and Under-19 national teams not coached by Krzyzewski, is going a long way toward setting Duke up for a special season.
“Amile is back to probably 95 percent,” Krzyzewski said. “He doesn’t have his explosion yet (because he) couldn’t work out with (his) legs because of the hip injury. By the time we start playing games he’ll regain that.”
With practice set to begin on Oct. 3, Krzyzewski said the team has no other injuries. “Everyone looks good,” he said.
“I think Amile has a huge role on this team,” Krzyzewski said. “Amile is our best on-the-court communicator. He talks well. He understands the game well. It’s a huge plus. We didn’t have it with our U.S. team and we haven’t had it here for a while. I’m not saying he’s Battier but that’s what Shane (Battier) did. He communicated the game while it was going on. You didn’t have to wait for a time out. It’s not just the point guard calling out plays. Communicating feelings, the nature of the game, pushing somebody while the game is going on. I think Amile has a huge role on this team. He’s our best on-court communicator. He talks well. It’s a huge plus.”
“This freshman class is just ahead, maturity wise,” Krzyzewski said Thursday. “With our team right now, it’s not sophomores, freshmen, juniors and seniors. They are just Duke basketball players. The freshmen are not freshmen. They are Duke basketball players. That differentiation doesn’t happen all the time. It doesn’t happen most of the time. With this group, it has. We saw that during the summer. This group is real close. Real close.”
Last season, a team built around eventual first-round NBA draft picks in freshman Jabari Parker and transfer Rodney Hood went 26-9 and lost its NCAA Tournament opener to Mercer. Krzyzewski cited a lack of internal leadership as a reason and vowed to do a better job of cultivating it this offseason.
“I had confidence in Jon and Nate, I just didn’t know how far along the team was going to be,” Krzyzewski said.
But the maturity of the freshmen, which he said was enhanced by their own USA Basketball gold medal experiences playing on Under-17 and Under-19 national teams not coached by Krzyzewski, is going a long way toward setting Duke up for a special season.
“Amile is back to probably 95 percent,” Krzyzewski said. “He doesn’t have his explosion yet (because he) couldn’t work out with (his) legs because of the hip injury. By the time we start playing games he’ll regain that.”
With practice set to begin on Oct. 3, Krzyzewski said the team has no other injuries. “Everyone looks good,” he said.
“I think Amile has a huge role on this team,” Krzyzewski said. “Amile is our best on-the-court communicator. He talks well. He understands the game well. It’s a huge plus. We didn’t have it with our U.S. team and we haven’t had it here for a while. I’m not saying he’s Battier but that’s what Shane (Battier) did. He communicated the game while it was going on. You didn’t have to wait for a time out. It’s not just the point guard calling out plays. Communicating feelings, the nature of the game, pushing somebody while the game is going on. I think Amile has a huge role on this team. He’s our best on-court communicator. He talks well. It’s a huge plus.”
oso diablo
Footballguy
huh? what am i missing here? you linked to an NBA-oriented twitter account that shares lots of photos, and i don't see where it claims the George/K photo as its own. That's awfully scant evidence to conclude that honorable people are flat out lying.As far as I can tell from a 30 second twitter search the picture was taken by a professional sports photographer who also took a shot of Floyd Mayweather with Paul George that same day.
Mayweather/George
He was probably hiding in the linen closet for Coach K's visit, though.
The Commish
Footballguy
Yeah, see....I don't care. That's the difference
Keep fighting the fight you think is there to be fought
The Commish
Footballguy
You're delusional if you think he's as clean as they come. I'll give you $10 for every person here in the FFA that believes thatYesterday on twitter, former Kentucky guard Doron Lamb dropped this bomb: "if you play ball for UK you can get whatever you want trust me I know."
wow. But we all know Calapari is as clean as they come. Nothing to see here.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
No ####?Yesterday on twitter, former Kentucky guard Doron Lamb dropped this bomb: "if you play ball for UK you can get whatever you want trust me I know."
wow. But we all know Calapari is as clean as they come. Nothing to see here.
Archer
Footballguy
Your sarcastic meter clearly doesn't work. Cal is the slimiest coach in the history of the game. Kentucky cheats almost as bad as UNC does. Well, no one cheats THAT bad, but you get my point.You're delusional if you think he's as clean as they come. I'll give you $10 for every person here in the FFA that believes thatYesterday on twitter, former Kentucky guard Doron Lamb dropped this bomb: "if you play ball for UK you can get whatever you want trust me I know."
wow. But we all know Calapari is as clean as they come. Nothing to see here.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
It's only September too. Good times.
The Commish
Footballguy
wait....there's a point to all this blabbering? I thought it was just an exercise in mental masterbation going on....my bad.Your sarcastic meter clearly doesn't work. Cal is the slimiest coach in the history of the game. Kentucky cheats almost as bad as UNC does. Well, no one cheats THAT bad, but you get my point.You're delusional if you think he's as clean as they come. I'll give you $10 for every person here in the FFA that believes thatYesterday on twitter, former Kentucky guard Doron Lamb dropped this bomb: "if you play ball for UK you can get whatever you want trust me I know."
wow. But we all know Calapari is as clean as they come. Nothing to see here.
oso diablo
Footballguy
Three ACC players named to the 1st team Preseason All-America by cbssports, including predicted College Player of the Year Jahlil Okafur (Duke). Other 1st teamers were UNC's Marcus Paige and Louisville's Montrezl Harrell.
That's cool, i guess, though i've never been a fan of freshmen being tabbed for these things in the pre-season.
That's cool, i guess, though i've never been a fan of freshmen being tabbed for these things in the pre-season.
MattFancy
Footballguy
tdoss
Footballguy
Hopefully he does better living up to that hype...but I'm of the same opinion about freshmen for these predictions.
apalmer
Footballguy
Didn't see any quotes from honorable people. Maybe you should post those instead of just quoting K.huh? what am i missing here? you linked to an NBA-oriented twitter account that shares lots of photos, and i don't see where it claims the George/K photo as its own. That's awfully scant evidence to conclude that honorable people are flat out lying.As far as I can tell from a 30 second twitter search the picture was taken by a professional sports photographer who also took a shot of Floyd Mayweather with Paul George that same day.
Mayweather/George
He was probably hiding in the linen closet for Coach K's visit, though.
oso diablo
Footballguy
wut?
The Commish
Footballguy
Tau837
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
For those curious about the Wainstein repor on the UNC Afro-Am scandal, my admittedly biased take: while the university takes further hits, the men's basketball program comes out smelling like roses, so much so that I was kind of surprised. The football team and surprisingly enough the women's basketball get hit relatively hard.
Here's the report. I can't cut and paste because of formatting issues but the relevant stuff for MBB is at pages 48, 50-51, 54-55, 64, and 72-74. Those are the page numbers from the report, not the pdf page count.
Happy reading!
Here's the report. I can't cut and paste because of formatting issues but the relevant stuff for MBB is at pages 48, 50-51, 54-55, 64, and 72-74. Those are the page numbers from the report, not the pdf page count.
Happy reading!
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simey
Footballguy
I don't think that the basketball team came out smelling like a rose unless that rose stinks. I watched the press conference of Wainstein, and the basketball program was involved in steering some of the athletes to the classes. Wayne Walden, the academic counselor for basketball, admitted to steering some of the players to taking the courses, and McSwain did the same. Walden said he couldn't remember if he told Roy about the classes or not. Whether Roy really knew that faculty weren't running the fake classes will probably never be known, but contradictions were found in statements he made about the classes now and in 2012.
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
No surprise that this is your takeaway just as it's no surprise that mine is quite different. However I've got multiple pages in the text that strongly suggest Roy was not complicit in any of this and in fact encouraged players not to cluster in the one major and to take "lecture classes that require attendance." (50-51).
There's also the statement on page 48 that although the advisers would occasionally suggest the AFAM classes to players they " did not routinely steer players into the classes without the players' knowledge" and that "more often than not the basketball players found these classes either through referrals from the their teammates ... or via their direct relationship with Crowder."
McCants also gets absolutely destoyed (p 54-55), (73-74 in the discussion of Roy Williams) so his allegations are now totally discredited.
And there was this at the PC:
Finally, if your anti-Williams or anti-basketball case is reduced to a local beat writer with an agenda trying to catch a supposed inconsistency between a detailed investigation and an offhand comment Roy Williams made to him two years ago, I think that speaks volumes about what's left of the case.
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omally
Footballguy
Roy Williams said he was concerned about all the african-american classes being taken, but he didn't know that the classes weren't being taught by faculty. Two years ago he said the players might just have other interests, and that is why they are taking the classes. He knew they were fake classes, Tobias, but he will never admit to it. He would have to be dumb as mud not to know. I'm sure you seriously do think Walden, who he was also with at Kansas, or someone else didn't tell him.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
The guy who did the investigation and the report literally said that his actions were "inconsistent with being complicit" with the AFAM scheme.
You want to
this thing, that's on you. There's nothing I can say to convince you otherwise, just as there's nothing that anyone can say to convince the annoying uber-fans who think Coach K faked a back injury or Valvano did whatever dirty stuff people accuse him of doing otherwise. As for me, I'm gonna stick to what's in the 130 page report put together by people who spent thousands of hours doing research and interviews, and the statements made by the coordinator of the report at the press conference. If you find something in either of those that looks bad for Williams or UNC basketball, feel free to let me know.
simey
Footballguy
I'm anti-Williams or anti-basketball, because I have an opinion about a probe that was released today, and my opinion differs from yours?
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
No, because you're an NC State fan. You sincerely think that doesn't color your perceptions? I fully admit my fandom colors mine.
I'll say the same thing I said to omally- find me something in the report or the comments from the PC that is damning for Williams or UNC men's basketball and I'll be happy to discuss it. If not, so be it.
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The Commish
Footballguy
This is going to be an absolute haul of a fishing trip 
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Waiting for the cliffnotes from Ripleys
simey
Footballguy
I'm 100% positive that if an investigation proved that academic counselors for the men's basketball team at NC State steered players to take fake classes to stay eligible, I wouldn't be saying the men's basketball team came out smelling like a rose.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
There was no such thing as Afro-Am independent studies before 1993? That was the only qualifier for the count for the Smith era- enrollment in AFAM independent studies, not "paper classes" as was the case for his successors. Says it right there in the language you quoted. Let me know when find support for your claim that there were no Afro-Am independent studies classes offered at UNC between 1967 and 1993.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
And I'd say probably wouldn't say it either- although to be honest if it's just an academic counselor and there's no knowledge of it higher up the chain of command I'm not sure that looks all that bad.
Anyway show me the proof that the academic counselors knew the classes were "fake" (as opposed to just easy) and that they steered UNC basketball players to them to stay eligible (instead of just suggesting them for an unspecified reason). Proves. That's the word you chose to use. Can you back it up?
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simey
Footballguy
Worm
slimy ninja
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I see no mention of eligibility there at all. Also no mention that he knew that the classes were fake- just that Crowder was going the grading (and it's fair to assume that he also knew this meant the grading would be generous). Nothing about them not doing any work- indeed there's several statements to the contrary, drawing a contrast between the basketball guys and the football guys.. From page 48, right after it says there was no "routine steering" but only "occasional suggestions," it says "unlike the football players who largely conceded that the classes held little educational value, several of the basketball players insisted they read extensively and worked hard to produce papers ..." Again, no fake classes.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Sammy3469
Footballguy
The report says the paper classes didn't start until 1993 when Nyang'oro basically gave Crowder free reign. So there were 5 years there (1993, 94, 95, 96, and 97) where basketball had a total of 54 enrollments in these paper classes.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Except that the 54 enrollment figure isn't limited to paper classes, as I pointed out before. It specifically says the total includes all "AFAM independent studies" courses and then subsequently limits it to only "paper classes" for Doherty and Williams. Is it your contention that there were no AFAM independent studies classes at UNC between 1967 and1993?
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Except they only looked at 1989-2011 and even then the number of independent study classes in AFAM from 89-93 is low, but if that's what you're hanging your hat on, so be it.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
It's OK to just admit that you were wrong when you said "54 classes between 1993 and 1997," you know. We all make mistakes. I promise I wouldn't think any less of you.
Also, do you have a link confirming that the count of independent study classes taken by Dean Smith players on p 72 was restricted to 1989-1997? Seems to me that it would be very easy to just count them all the way back to 1961 if you had access to transcripts, but maybe I missed something.
ETA: I just went to look at the text of the Dean Smith discussion and there's a footnote on the "54 classes" count that says exactly this: "we cannot say with any certainty which of these independent studies were traditional independent studies and which were irregular independent studies." So, yeah.
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meanjoegreen
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Good response.
Still waiting for the language from the report or the press conference "proving that academic counselors for the men's basketball team steered players to take fake classes to stay eligible." I'd hate to think anyone would make accusations like that without something to back it up. Let me know when you find it.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Really disappointing effort so far. One person claiming "proof" who couldn't back it up, another making a claim about Dean Smith that was literally refuted in a footnote of the text on which it was based, and a third person calling me "delusional" for insisting on dealing in facts, the text of the report and the comments at the press conference (which is pretty terrible use of the word delusional).
See you all tomorrow. Hopefully that gives the Devils Den and Pack Pride ample time to read between the lines and come up with better and more entertaining allegations to refute.
See you all tomorrow. Hopefully that gives the Devils Den and Pack Pride ample time to read between the lines and come up with better and more entertaining allegations to refute.
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