**2015 MLB Season Thread: This is how the chapter ends (3 Viewers)

[Grahamburn]

Haven't several of these "cheap" long term deals where teams are locking up young players backfired though? Starlin Castro. Matt Moore. Rick Porcello. Jedd Gyorko. It doesn't always work out. There's major risk for the team as well.

Risk both if the player tanks or plays too well.That next negotiation could get emotional if there's animosity between player and franchise when the team locks the player up to a deal that plays out as too team-friendly. Take Salvy Perez, for example. If he doesn't have agents telling him what evil cheapskates the Royals are for taking advantage of him when he was new to the business, he will by the time his contract is up.

Sure. There's risk both ways. That's my point. It just seems like the deals where the player is getting "screwed" are usually the ones most discussed.

 

[gump]

Zorilla tees, back this October!

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Zorilla tees, back this October!

Put 'em up! Demand for anything Royals is huge in KC right now. Even my local Hy-Vee has almost an entire aisle devoted to Royals swag right now. That store is pushing "HDH" and "CAIN IS ABLE" t-shirts hard.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

"CAIN IS ABLE"

My link.

 

[larch]

Jenrry Mejia suspended 162 games for a second positive PED test.

 

[sports_fan]

I like the Zobrist trade

World Series prediction: Royals vs Pirates. Royals in 6

 

[sports_fan]

What is the point of this?

Chris Vass of @MLBNetworkRadio says the Rockies will eat $6 of the approximate $105M owed to Tulo. Not $6M, $6.00.

https://twitter.com/CJNitkowski/status/625888138825633792

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

"CAIN IS ABLE"

My link.

Do not disagree. Didn't like it as the slogan for Joe Kane's Heisman campaign in "The Program", don't like it here.

I guess it didn't hit me as hard after last season's insanely popular postseason shirts, "IT'S ALL ABOUT THAT BASE" and "PARTY LIKE IT'S 1985".

Made the Jerrod Dyson-inspired "THAT'S WHAT SPEED DO" not so bad by comparison.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

What is the point of this?

Chris Vass of @MLBNetworkRadio says the Rockies will eat $6 of the approximate $105M owed to Tulo. Not $6M, $6.00.

https://twitter.com/CJNitkowski/status/625888138825633792

That's how much a pack of Magnum condoms cost.

 

[Raider Nation]

Crazy

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Crazy

Unfortunately, by rule it was the right call. Needs to "voluntarily and intentionally" remove the ball from his glove to finish the catch.

 

[HellToupee]

Crazy

Unfortunately, by rule it was the right call. Needs to "voluntarily and intentionally" remove the ball from his glove to finish the catch.

I was yelling at Remy & Orsillo to dummy up and stop showing the replay

 

[pantagrapher]

Angels keep acquiring outfielders. Worried about Trout?

 

[Bobcat10]

WTH is Hale doing with Tomas? Has the guy not earned regular at bats or what?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

WTH is Hale doing with Tomas? Has the guy not earned regular at bats or what?

I think the issue with Tomas is that he's a liability in the field. Basically they have to spread the at bats among Lamb, Tomas, Inciarte, and Peralta. If Tomas could actually play 3B, he'd probably get as many at bats as he could ask for. Power will probably come and with that I think the walks will too, but he's still learning to play the OF and he's pretty damn terrible at 3B.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

WTH is Hale doing with Tomas? Has the guy not earned regular at bats or what?

Too many dudes, I guess.

 

[Bobcat10]

WTH is Hale doing with Tomas? Has the guy not earned regular at bats or what?

I think the issue with Tomas is that he's a liability in the field. Basically they have to spread the at bats among Lamb, Tomas, Inciarte, and Peralta. If Tomas could actually play 3B, he'd probably get as many at bats as he could ask for. Power will probably come and with that I think the walks will too, but he's still learning to play the OF and he's pretty damn terrible at 3B.

Not like the DBacks should have WS aspirations this year. Gotta play him for him to improve defensively, imo. Hitting he has held his own, bit of a small slump right now, but we know most MLers have slumps. Just seems strange to me.

 

[the moops]

Crazy

Unfortunately, by rule it was the right call. Needs to "voluntarily and intentionally" remove the ball from his glove to finish the catch.

Seems like the stupid NFL rule about making a football move or whatever it was.

Just dont see any point to that play being a homerun. Catches the ball, takes a step or two, hits the wall, still has the ball, then it falls out when he hits the ground.

Looks like a catch, and feels like a catch

 

[Limp Ditka]

WTH is Hale doing with Tomas? Has the guy not earned regular at bats or what?

Too many dudes, I guess.

Like a hotel room at shady's buddy's bachelor party

 

[the moops]

 

[Good Posting Judge]

WTH is Hale doing with Tomas? Has the guy not earned regular at bats or what?

I think the issue with Tomas is that he's a liability in the field. Basically they have to spread the at bats among Lamb, Tomas, Inciarte, and Peralta. If Tomas could actually play 3B, he'd probably get as many at bats as he could ask for. Power will probably come and with that I think the walks will too, but he's still learning to play the OF and he's pretty damn terrible at 3B.

Not like the DBacks should have WS aspirations this year. Gotta play him for him to improve defensively, imo. Hitting he has held his own, bit of a small slump right now, but we know most MLers have slumps. Just seems strange to me.

All of those guys are deserving of time, I think because they don't have WS aspirations is why they're right to not have a set in stone lineup.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

This guy the Phillies got back for Papelbon doesn't seem that good.

 

[Michael Brown]

So basically every player beyond 28 who signs a long-term deal is signed with the expectation that their best years are behind them. Right? That's fine, but VMART had his best season at 35 and anyone thinking Miguel Cabrera is going to fade like Albert Belle or Ryan Howard is out of their minds. Neither the Sanchez or Kinsler contracts are bad now, or going forward. Sanchez at $16mm a year is less than Brandon McCarthy, CJ Wilson, Jared Weaver and Matt Cain guys that I think he compares well with.

The bottom line with Price is that Verlander's contract, and Verlander's only, is a roadblock to giving Price a crazy contract. Those other contracts mean nothing IMO, and the Tigers have hit well enough this year to contend anyway. But as an owner I'd have a tough time giving Price $200mm given what we've seen from Cain, Verlander, Sabathia, and even Lester. I think Price is an exception and will have many more elite then above average years, but investing in pitching at that cost over that many years is scary.

Fair enough. Kinsler I agree is not a problem at all, now that I saw that his salary goes down, and honestly he could be a bargain, considering his 5.1 WAR last year and 2.5 this year.


And I am willing to give Cabrera the benefit of the doubt for the next few years.

Sanchez has a 1 WAR this year. Is he going to get better? I would doubt that he gets much above that ever agin.


Martinez was a 2.1 in 2011, hurt in 2012, .7 in 2013, 4.3 last year, and -0.4 this year. Obviously he can be better than he was this year if he is healthy, but again he had a sudden career year in 2014. Are you really going to bank on him returning to that at 37? And on guys having career years in their mid-30s in general?

No, but teams don't sign guys in their late 20s and early 30s hoping they'll have career years at 35. Do you think the Tigers signed VMART the first time thinking he would have a career year at 34? I don't understand what you are getting at, the Cubs signed Jon Lester and the Red Sox signed Hanley Ramirez because of their long-term consistency and the fact they are among the best at their positions. Teams are fully aware that these players are going to have some off years, but are signing them for a level of performance over time, not because they are banking on career year after career year.

The Tigers signed Anibal at 28 and got a Cy Young type season out of what is supposed to be a #3/#4 pitcher. He's easily going to earn the value of his contract. Why would I or anyone else expect him to be better than his career year? His age and performance history say he's due to regress.

Right, but I'm kind of coming at all of this with a theory in the back of my mind that is not fully fleshed out that you are just not going to get the right value ever by spending on big ticket free agents. With the way that the salary structure is set up and teams seeing more value in locking up their young guys earlier, I just don't see how teams can really extract good value through high-priced, older free agents.

Of course, perhaps you don't need to extract optimal value, but try to at least get the best value for what is available and maybe that it is good enough to win.

This is a great point.

The most interesting part, to me, is when you put this context around the current debate about trading draft picks as bargaining ramps up for the next CBA. The draft is becoming more and more integral to what we call "excess value," and teams have a huge worry about allowing picks to be traded: somebody will get taken advantage of. It's funny, because that's a thought that exists in every single team's thoughts on trading draft picks while they also all think they won't be the team to make a bad deal.

If I were building a baseball team (what an awesome job that would be), I'd be right there with you LBL. I'd be trying to buy out arb and FA years whenever I could (and avoid signing older FAs, except perhaps pitchers, especially relievers, on short term deals). To analogize to the NBA, it's a little like a Steph Curry extension: there's some risk obviously, but you could end up with a player earning far less than he'd be worth otherwise. I think the best current example would be Baltimore, who should absolutely try to get Machado signed to an extension of some sort through a couple years of FA.

I'd be leery of Machado's knees, but I agree in theory. The Cleveland Indians pretty much wrote the book on doing this in the mid-90's when they locked up all their young guys well before free agency. It was a novel concept at the time, and strangely it's one that most other teams didn't really follow until the last five years or so.

The knees are definitely the biggest risk there, but without them you wonder if such a team-friendly deal would be possible, don't you?

Not really, because a lot of the other guys who took early contracts (Trout, Longoria, few others that have been mentioned) didn't have any major injury risks. Obviously Machado's situation might make it even MORE team-friendly, but I think there's more risk on the Baltimore side of any long-term deal they work out just for that very reason...regardless of how team-friendly it appears.

 

[Limp Ditka]

When we make football jokes about baseball scores, when the Yankees are involved, we're supposed to use Giants of yesteryear as opposed to Jets, right?

 

[E-Z Glider]

This guy the Phillies got back for Papelbon doesn't seem that good.

Salary dump. Hopefully more money to include in the Hamels deal for better prospects. Another interesting Papeldoosh stat....

Through age 34 season:Mariano Rivera

2.43 ERA, 336 SV

Papelbon

2.32 ERA, 342 SV

Personality goes a long way.

 

[Bobcat10]

WTH is Hale doing with Tomas? Has the guy not earned regular at bats or what?

I think the issue with Tomas is that he's a liability in the field. Basically they have to spread the at bats among Lamb, Tomas, Inciarte, and Peralta. If Tomas could actually play 3B, he'd probably get as many at bats as he could ask for. Power will probably come and with that I think the walks will too, but he's still learning to play the OF and he's pretty damn terrible at 3B.

Not like the DBacks should have WS aspirations this year. Gotta play him for him to improve defensively, imo. Hitting he has held his own, bit of a small slump right now, but we know most MLers have slumps. Just seems strange to me.

All of those guys are deserving of time, I think because they don't have WS aspirations is why they're right to not have a set in stone lineup.

They have a DH spot in Seattle, so let's sit him for the 3rd time in 5 days. Gotta get Salty those AB's. Makes sense.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Sounds like things are going pretty well so far.

"Really, all I'm gonna say is that obviously I'm aware of the move," Storen said. "I've talked to (Nationals general manager Mike Rizzo) about it. I've talked to my agent. We've had some ongoing discussions. Until those have progressed, I'm just gonna leave it at that and no comment for now. But as the situation goes, I'll keep you guys posted."

 

[pantagrapher]

Gordon Wittenmyer
‏@GDubCub

Source: Latos, Morse to Dodgers for prospects. At least one competitive balance pick also to Dodgers. W/ Latos off board Haren still in play

 

[Grahamburn]

Sounds like things are going pretty well so far.

"Really, all I'm gonna say is that obviously I'm aware of the move," Storen said. "I've talked to (Nationals general manager Mike Rizzo) about it. I've talked to my agent. We've had some ongoing discussions. Until those have progressed, I'm just gonna leave it at that and no comment for now. But as the situation goes, I'll keep you guys posted."

I could understand it for a guy like Chapman, but at this point going to Papelbon is a lateral move for the Nats. All they did was piss off a guy who has been great all year.

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

Sounds like things are going pretty well so far.

"Really, all I'm gonna say is that obviously I'm aware of the move," Storen said. "I've talked to (Nationals general manager Mike Rizzo) about it. I've talked to my agent. We've had some ongoing discussions. Until those have progressed, I'm just gonna leave it at that and no comment for now. But as the situation goes, I'll keep you guys posted."

I could understand it for a guy like Chapman, but at this point going to Papelbon is a lateral move for the Nats. All they did was piss off a guy who has been great all year.

The same guy who can't save playoff games though.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Have the Royals taught you people nothing?

 

[JaxBill]

Gordon Wittenmyer

‏@GDubCub

Source: Latos, Morse to Dodgers for prospects. At least one competitive balance pick also to Dodgers. W/ Latos off board Haren still in play

So basically the Marlins traded Latos and the #34 pick to dump Morse's contract.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I don't understand where Morse even fits on that roster.

 

[Spartans Rule]

I could understand it for a guy like Chapman, but at this point going to Papelbon is a lateral move for the Nats. All they did was piss off a guy who has been great all year.

MLB teams use more than one relief pitcher. Storen will still be pitching in high-leverage situations. The Nationals significantly upgraded their bullpen as a whole and only gave up a low-end prospect. It's a great move for them.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Sounds like things are going pretty well so far.

"Really, all I'm gonna say is that obviously I'm aware of the move," Storen said. "I've talked to (Nationals general manager Mike Rizzo) about it. I've talked to my agent. We've had some ongoing discussions. Until those have progressed, I'm just gonna leave it at that and no comment for now. But as the situation goes, I'll keep you guys posted."

I could understand it for a guy like Chapman, but at this point going to Papelbon is a lateral move for the Nats. All they did was piss off a guy who has been great all year.

The same guy who can't save playoff games though.

Storen has pitched 5.1 innings in the playoffs. In his first 3, he had a win, a save, and allowed no hits. Unfortunately for him, the other 2.1 have left him labeled as a guy who cant pitch in the playoffs. Seems a bit unfair.

 

[JaxBill]

So Sunshine network caries 150 of the 162 Rays games and they skip a game that Chris Archer happens to start and start very well.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

I don't understand where Morse even fits on that roster.

It's the Marlins and it's the Dodgers so the Dodgers are probably just going to eat his money.

Obv can't judge w/o knowing the prospects, but this seems like a pretty savvy move.The comp pick is going to offset whatever their farm system lost to some extent.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Sounds like things are going pretty well so far.

"Really, all I'm gonna say is that obviously I'm aware of the move," Storen said. "I've talked to (Nationals general manager Mike Rizzo) about it. I've talked to my agent. We've had some ongoing discussions. Until those have progressed, I'm just gonna leave it at that and no comment for now. But as the situation goes, I'll keep you guys posted."

I could understand it for a guy like Chapman, but at this point going to Papelbon is a lateral move for the Nats. All they did was piss off a guy who has been great all year.

The same guy who can't save playoff games though.

Storen has pitched 5.1 innings in the playoffs. In his first 3, he had a win, a save, and allowed no hits. Unfortunately for him, the other 2.1 have left him labeled as a guy who cant pitch in the playoffs. Seems a bit unfair.

Everyone loves a narrative. Even Nats fans forget about his first postseason appearance, where he protected a 1 run lead on the road in the team's first ever playoff game by setting down the Cardinals in order, including Matt Holliday and a still-awesome Carlos Beltran. He also pitched a scoreless 9th to set up the team's greatest moment, Werth's walkoff HR in Game 4 of that series. One bad outing and one unlucky outing later and somehow he's the Greg Norman of baseball.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Gordon Wittenmyer

‏@GDubCub

Source: Latos, Morse to Dodgers for prospects. At least one competitive balance pick also to Dodgers. W/ Latos off board Haren still in play

So basically the Marlins traded Latos and the #34 pick to dump Morse's contract.

Or, the Dodgers bought a draft pick from the Marlins, however you want to look at it.

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

Sounds like things are going pretty well so far.

"Really, all I'm gonna say is that obviously I'm aware of the move," Storen said. "I've talked to (Nationals general manager Mike Rizzo) about it. I've talked to my agent. We've had some ongoing discussions. Until those have progressed, I'm just gonna leave it at that and no comment for now. But as the situation goes, I'll keep you guys posted."

I could understand it for a guy like Chapman, but at this point going to Papelbon is a lateral move for the Nats. All they did was piss off a guy who has been great all year.

The same guy who can't save playoff games though.

Storen has pitched 5.1 innings in the playoffs. In his first 3, he had a win, a save, and allowed no hits. Unfortunately for him, the other 2.1 have left him labeled as a guy who cant pitch in the playoffs. Seems a bit unfair.

Everyone loves a narrative. Even Nats fans forget about his first postseason appearance, where he protected a 1 run lead on the road in the team's first ever playoff game by setting down the Cardinals in order, including Matt Holliday and a still-awesome Carlos Beltran. He also pitched a scoreless 9th to set up the team's greatest moment, Werth's walkoff HR in Game 4 of that series. One bad outing and one unlucky outing later and somehow he's the Greg Norman of baseball.

Didn't he blow a save last year in the playoffs also? So he's blown half of his playoff save opportunities? 8.44 ERA and a 1.9 WHIP in those six appearances, guy is statue of consistency.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Not clutchy imo.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Sounds like things are going pretty well so far.

"Really, all I'm gonna say is that obviously I'm aware of the move," Storen said. "I've talked to (Nationals general manager Mike Rizzo) about it. I've talked to my agent. We've had some ongoing discussions. Until those have progressed, I'm just gonna leave it at that and no comment for now. But as the situation goes, I'll keep you guys posted."

I could understand it for a guy like Chapman, but at this point going to Papelbon is a lateral move for the Nats. All they did was piss off a guy who has been great all year.

The same guy who can't save playoff games though.

Storen has pitched 5.1 innings in the playoffs. In his first 3, he had a win, a save, and allowed no hits. Unfortunately for him, the other 2.1 have left him labeled as a guy who cant pitch in the playoffs. Seems a bit unfair.

Everyone loves a narrative. Even Nats fans forget about his first postseason appearance, where he protected a 1 run lead on the road in the team's first ever playoff game by setting down the Cardinals in order, including Matt Holliday and a still-awesome Carlos Beltran. He also pitched a scoreless 9th to set up the team's greatest moment, Werth's walkoff HR in Game 4 of that series. One bad outing and one unlucky outing later and somehow he's the Greg Norman of baseball.

Didn't he blow a save last year in the playoffs also? So he's blown half of his playoff save opportunities? 8.44 ERA and a 1.9 WHIP in those six appearances, guy is statue of consistency.

Last year was the unlucky one- Posey ground ball single and a sliced double down the line by Panda on a late swing that was inches from foul. The quote there is correct- he made good pitches in that outing. The 2012 one was the bad one.

Look, it's a small sample size. Everyone has a five inning sample size with bad numbers, because they often turn on the tiniest things. Before he blew Game 5 in 2012 he got a check swing out of Yadi with two outs and two strikes that could have gone either way. If he gets the call the series ends and the narrative dies before it's born. The hits the Cards got after that were ground balls, one of which bounced off Desmond's outstretched glove.

I'm not saying he's perfect or amazing or that he's the best postseason closer ever. And you don't have to remind me of his struggles, I was sitting maybe 100 feet from the mound down the 1B line for both of them. I'm just saying the idea that he can't do it is silly, because (1) he's pretty good generally and (2) he has done it in the postseason.

 

[Swing 51]

and (3) it is the ####### Cardinals

 

[Swing 51]

Kershaw may be pushed back from tonight to Friday due to sore glute/hip

 

[Capella]

So Sunshine network caries 150 of the 162 Rays games and they skip a game that Chris Archer happens to start and start very well.

At least the third Archer start they've missed.

Why would they ever miss a home game. Baffling.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

So verlander is totally dead right.

Only the fifth time in his great career he's struck out 10+ with no walks today. Pretty much pitch for pitch with Archer.

 

[Capella]

So verlander is totally dead right.

Only the fifth time in his great career he's struck out 10+ with no walks today. Pretty much pitch for pitch with Archer.

cake Renaissance begins today

 

[Instinctive]

I could understand it for a guy like Chapman, but at this point going to Papelbon is a lateral move for the Nats. All they did was piss off a guy who has been great all year.

MLB teams use more than one relief pitcher. Storen will still be pitching in high-leverage situations. The Nationals significantly upgraded their bullpen as a whole and only gave up a low-end prospect. It's a great move for them.

Storen should be super pissed though. This has the potential to cost him serious money in arbitration. Potential for $1M+ difference.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Tigers gonna sell

 

[Hilts]

Storen lacks TWTW. Papelbon should help bring a veteran presence to the clubhouse.