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2015 NBA Thread: I felt a great disturbance in the trolls, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. (3 Viewers)

Good Posting Judge said:
Getting taken deep by OKC didn't help. But that's why Cleveland were the odds-on favorites to win at the beginning of this year, right, there was a far lesser chance that they were going to get caught or even ground down before the Finals.

They were able to keep their minutes per game down, but there were opportunities throughout the year that they didn't take to conserve energy even further. There weren't nearly enough scheduled rest days during the year, starters were often times left in way after the game was put away, and they didn't get a break at the end of the year after they had the #1 seed well in hand. They also could've given more game minutes to their 2nd unit, which despite the post game-1 narrative (which was like 15 narratives ago), wasn't very good. Maybe it ultimately wouldn't have mattered, but I do think the org. erred by letting the players dictate their priorities. 
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If Curry was 100% in every postseason round IMO GSW wins the title pretty much unchallenged.  

(Insert tired FFA-specific joke about Kerr giving his players plenty of rest by taking Game 3 off in every series.)

I'm unbothered by a team choosing to chase history.  If GSW had gone 71-11 and not won the title, then they don't have a ring or the regular season wins record.

I'm having difficulty seeing the connection between the 73-9 record and not winning it all.  Don't we see a lot of teams drop Game 1s in the playoffs because they were rusty from too much time off?

I do agree the underrated factor here is how competitive and physical the OKC series was.  With all due respect to the Raptors and all their great fans here, TOR didn't challenge CLE quite that way.

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
If Curry was 100% in every postseason round IMO GSW wins the title pretty much unchallenged.  

(Insert tired FFA-specific joke about Kerr giving his players plenty of rest by taking Game 3 off in every series.)

I'm unbothered by a team choosing to chase history.  If GSW had gone 71-11 and not won the title, then they don't have a ring or the regular season wins record.

I'm having difficulty seeing the connection between the 73-9 record and not winning it all.  Don't we see a lot of teams drop Game 1s in the playoffs because they were rusty from too much time off?

I do agree the underrated factor here is how competitive and physical the OKC series was.  With all due respect to the Raptors and all their great fans here, TOR didn't challenge CLE quite that way.
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I don't know. Dealing with all of those games as if they're playoff games takes its toll, both physically and mentally.  They lost 9 games all season then turned around and went 15-9 in the playoffs. They'll never admit it, but if they had it to do over, they'd be more than happy to be 65-17 and have Steph and the boys more rested. 

 
Frostillicus said:
Lebron played amazing.  Curry didn't.  For whatever reason.  Doesn't mean he choked.  Cavs probably got some breaks but most champions do.  This isn't that hard.
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Sure it does. Guy averaged 30ppg and shot over 50% for the season with a unanimous MVP vote. He cruised through the West and was talking mad trash up 3-1. Then proceeded to lose 3 in a row averaging only 16 ppg over that span. Yea, he choked.

 
JuniorNB said:
I don't know. Dealing with all of those games as if they're playoff games takes its toll, both physically and mentally.  They lost 9 games all season then turned around and went 15-9 in the playoffs. They'll never admit it, but if they had it to do over, they'd be more than happy to be 65-17 and have Steph and the boys more rested.
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If they finish 65-17, they play OKC in the 2nd round and then probably faces San Antonio in San Antonio in the WCF.  How is that any better?

 
Insein said:
Sure it does. Guy averaged 30ppg and shot over 50% for the season with a unanimous MVP vote. He cruised through the West and was talking mad trash up 3-1. Then proceeded to lose 3 in a row averaging only 16 ppg over that span. Yea, he choked.
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He averaged 21.5 ppg in games 1-4 and 24.0 in games 5-7.  Whoops.

 
SWC said:
why not pototoel and then move monroe who just is not a solid fit with the bangos style brohan give me your thoughts both of you if you would take that to the bank 
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Poeltl seems like more of a traditional big man than Sabonis who has nice range. totally based on feel from what i saw of them in college. i like Poeltl, just not sure if he can cause the same problems for opposing defenses.

that said, this probably ensures an 18 year HoF career for Jakob while Sabonis washes out in 2

 
Insein said:
Sure it does. Guy averaged 30ppg and shot over 50% for the season with a unanimous MVP vote. He cruised through the West and was talking mad trash up 3-1. Then proceeded to lose 3 in a row averaging only 16 ppg over that span. Yea, he choked.
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I guess we have a different definition of choked.  To me a choke is shrinking from the moment, not being able to handle the pressure.  That's not what I saw at all.  

 
Frostillicus said:
I guess we have a different definition of choked.  To me a choke is shrinking from the moment, not being able to handle the pressure.  That's not what I saw at all.  
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So game 7, showing up small, making bone headed behind the back turnovers, and being intimidated by Lebron after he had been in such control the whole year was not shrinking from the moment?

 
Insein said:
So game 7, showing up small, making bone headed behind the back turnovers, and being intimidated by Lebron after he had been in such control the whole year was not shrinking from the moment?
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He missed shots and made a few dumb turnovers.  That happens.  Call it what you want.

 
I don't think Curry choked. I just think he is somewhat of a one-trick pony, that one-trick being perhaps the best shooter we've ever seen.  A guy like James can have an off night shooting the ball and still contribute in many ways, whether it be racking up a crap load of assists and rebounds or blocking shots and playing stellar D, but if Curry is not scoring, his impact on the game just isn't that high, aside from the fact that the other team still has to guard him like crazy cause he can go off with 3s at any time. 

 
Frostillicus said:
He missed shots and made a few dumb turnovers.  That happens.  Call it what you want.
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If it's regular season, earlier in the playoffs or hell even game 1 of the finals, ok. Not game 7 for the unanimous MVP. Guy came up small when his team needed him the most. He scored 17 when they lost by 4.

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
If Curry was 100% in every postseason round IMO GSW wins the title pretty much unchallenged.  

(Insert tired FFA-specific joke about Kerr giving his players plenty of rest by taking Game 3 off in every series.)

I'm unbothered by a team choosing to chase history.  If GSW had gone 71-11 and not won the title, then they don't have a ring or the regular season wins record.

I'm having difficulty seeing the connection between the 73-9 record and not winning it all.  Don't we see a lot of teams drop Game 1s in the playoffs because they were rusty from too much time off?

I do agree the underrated factor here is how competitive and physical the OKC series was.  With all due respect to the Raptors and all their great fans here, TOR didn't challenge CLE quite that way.
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I don't think it's ever possible to really quantify how much it hurt. But we can all agree that having Curry play 44 min each game is dumb, right? And rest/freshness was a critical factor for the old-### Spurs to beat Miami a couple years ago. I certainly don't think it could've hurt, and I think it would've improved their chances. By how much, who knows.

There was also a lay-zay fair attitude towards strengthening the 2nd unit during the season. Varejao was and is terrible. Speights is woeful. I think they rested on their laurels given how well the regular season went -- and they very well could've won regardless -- but they didn't. Lacob's sternly saying how they're going to be "very aggressive" in the off-season, well why not be just as aggressive during the regular season?

 
Ghost Rider said:
I don't think Curry choked. I just think he is somewhat of a one-trick pony, that one-trick being perhaps the best shooter we've ever seen.  A guy like James can have an off night shooting the ball and still contribute in many ways, whether it be racking up a crap load of assists and rebounds or blocking shots and playing stellar D, but if Curry is not scoring, his impact on the game just isn't that high, aside from the fact that the other team still has to guard him like crazy cause he can go off with 3s at any time. 
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Curry played very good defense on Irving (way better than Irving did on Curry), but that doesn't show up because Irving took such a high amount of shots.  He also opens up the floor tremendously, but that doesn't show up because people like Barnes shot like ####.  A defensive strategy that allows a 1.2ppp shot to happen is not good - sometimes those shots don't fall.  Disagree very much he can't have an impact on the game if he doesn't score.

 
Insein said:
If it's regular season, earlier in the playoffs or hell even game 1 of the finals, ok. Not game 7 for the unanimous MVP. Guy came up small when his team needed him the most. He scored 17 when they lost by 4.
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The entire Warriors team scored 89 points.  They all played like ####.  What is the point of saying this over and over again?  It's a team game. 

 
Good Posting Judge said:
I don't think it's ever possible to really quantify how much it hurt. But we can all agree that having Curry play 44 min each game is dumb, right? And rest/freshness was a critical factor for the old-### Spurs to beat Miami a couple years ago. I certainly don't think it could've hurt, and I think it would've improved their chances. By how much, who knows.

There was also a lay-zay fair attitude towards strengthening the 2nd unit during the season. Varejao was and is terrible. Speights is woeful. I think they rested on their laurels given how well the regular season went -- and they very well could've won regardless -- but they didn't. Lacob's sternly saying how they're going to be "very aggressive" in the off-season, well why not be just as aggressive during the regular season?
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If only they hadn't cut Jason Thompson. 

 
Good Posting Judge said:
I don't think it's ever possible to really quantify how much it hurt. But we can all agree that having Curry play 44 min each game is dumb, right? And rest/freshness was a critical factor for the old-### Spurs to beat Miami a couple years ago. I certainly don't think it could've hurt, and I think it would've improved their chances. By how much, who knows.

There was also a lay-zay fair attitude towards strengthening the 2nd unit during the season. Varejao was and is terrible. Speights is woeful. I think they rested on their laurels given how well the regular season went -- and they very well could've won regardless -- but they didn't. Lacob's sternly saying how they're going to be "very aggressive" in the off-season, well why not be just as aggressive during the regular season?
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Fair points in the first paragraph.  Insightful critique in the second.  If you're going to chase history, chase history.  Make a move or two to add depth.  If it costs a future first-rounder, so be it.  That pick is going to down near 30, anyways.  You know I defended the Zobrist and Cueto trades, so I think it's fair to attack a team that had a shot at history and didn't take every shot possible to make it.  They had expiring contracts to give, and could have taken on salary for next year - it doesn't get complicated for them until summer 2017.

Championship windows aren't that wide.  4 or 5 years if you're lucky.  Players age, get hurt, get The Disease Of Me, or just wake up one day and can't hit shots anymore.  Gotta go for it when you can.

 
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
GTFO
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Perfect example of why I post the way I do.  Instead of doing any research and asking why I say something, you simply put "GTFO".  Nice.

Haralabos Voulgaris‏@haralabob Jun 17

Haralabos Voulgaris Retweeted Tim Hopper

The #s aren’t even comparable. Steph on O vs Kyrie 1.37ppp Kyrie on O vs Steph .87ppp

 
In contrast:

Haralabos Voulgaris‏@haralabob Jun 17

Curry’s offensive efficiency when Tristan Thompson has been guarding him is .78 ppp on 25 possessions.

He doesn't post the Curry vs. James ppp (when James guarded Green), but I assume it's almost as terrible as Thompson guarding Curry.  Why exactly would the Warriors continue to run pnr when a much better defender switches on to Curry?  It was stupidity.

Sorry to interrupt the deep discussion about how Curry is a choke though.

 
Bobcat10 said:
Lue and staff absolutely did a great job. If anyone listened to Lue during the series he openly talked about some of the adjustments they made. 
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Taking the job was a borderline suicide mission.  Almost no upside to taking the gig when the guy 30-11 just got ####canned.  He was a big underdog going into the Finals and at least coached Kerr to a draw.

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
Maybe the problem is you.

Maybe the problem is you've spent a lot more time being an unrepentant ####### to everybody here and very little time talking about actual basketball.  

Maybe you've said some really dumb things here and couldn't handle it, taking it personally when called out on it.

I'd greatly enjoy talking situational points-per-possession stuff here.  So would a lot of others.  But you seem entitled to talk #### to everyone here and can't take even a smidge of what you dish out.
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As if my mind controlled that keys you struck...I agree with this entirely.

Dude was such an insufferable fanatic that I was reminded of Patriot fans, LHUCKS and RipArcher.

Couldn't believe this guy actually got me to somewhat root for Lebron...just to see him eat crow.

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
Fair points in the first paragraph.  Insightful critique in the second.  If you're going to chase history, chase history.  Make a move or two to add depth.  If it costs a future first-rounder, so be it.  That pick is going to down near 30, anyways.  You know I defended the Zobrist and Cueto trades, so I think it's fair to attack a team that had a shot at history and didn't take every shot possible to make it.  They had expiring contracts to give, and could have taken on salary for next year - it doesn't get complicated for them until summer 2017.

Championship windows aren't that wide.  4 or 5 years if you're lucky.  Players age, get hurt, get The Disease Of Me, or just wake up one day and can't hit shots anymore.  Gotta go for it when you can.
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I always thought Teletovic would've been a nice add, and a guy they probably could've gotten cheaply. 

Maybe it's a lesson they're going to build from. Maybe it's a matter of changing their perception from "We're the new Bulls" to "Oh ####, we're the Lakers (or Celtics) and they're the Celtics (or Lakers)." And you can see how they could've gotten arrogant/complacent, they started playing small and quickly shut Cleveland down in the 2015 Finals. They were untested in a lot of games and the games where it was close were usually put away by the small lineup. You can see how a 2nd title would've seemed inevitable, even though it never was. But you're right, championship windows can close quickly. I don't think Curry's going anywhere and Thompson and Green both signed for what's going to be very reasonable money after the dust settles this summer, but getting down into those last couple of series, guys 4-12 are going to matter.

Myers nailed the Barnes/Green 2012 draft, he got Iguodala, he filled in the 2nd unit with some good players, some bad. Now there are some big questions about SF, C, and he's going to have to pretty much rebuild the bench. I could see things possibly not going well, but it sounds like GS is willing to spend, and I think almost every FA will at least listen. Could they get Gasol cheap and -- I love the guy, but -- dump Bogut? Noah as a role player? The aforementioned Teletovic? Jared Dudley aka Kid Mero? Batum? Fournier? Lebron? There are a lot of intriguing options that fit what they need and their MO.

 
Did we get a ruling from the ombudsman about the research thing, cause that seems like a bridge too far. I've pretty much just relied on TGunz to bring the details to this up to now and that's been going swimmingly.

 
tjnc09 said:
In contrast:

Haralabos Voulgaris‏@haralabob Jun 17

Curry’s offensive efficiency when Tristan Thompson has been guarding him is .78 ppp on 25 possessions.

He doesn't post the Curry vs. James ppp (when James guarded Green), but I assume it's almost as terrible as Thompson guarding Curry.  Why exactly would the Warriors continue to run pnr when a much better defender switches on to Curry?  It was stupidity.

Sorry to interrupt the deep discussion about how Curry is a choke though.
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Please use your expert analytics to convince us that Curry shooting 1 for 6 in the 4th quarter of game seven wasn't a choke. Thanks 

 
This isn't that hard, both OKC and Cleveland forced Curry exploited Curry on defense (the Lebron-Smith and Irving-Smith) were 2 of their 3 favorite sets all series long.  Once they knew they could exploit that especially with Bogut out, GSW had trouble not giving up good shots.

On the other end, they repeatedly tried to run PnR with Curry and a big, but unless it was Love (save the last possession of Game 7), both Lebron and Thompson (who is a very good to great PnR defender since he moves his feet very well) can shut it down and force ball movement to Barnes, Iggy, or Green.  Green responded in some games, but the other 2 were dumpster fires for the most part.

Unlike the regular season, Cleveland had time to make adjustments and physically wear down GSW.  

 
Kevin Pelton was on David Locke's podcast and said Jaylen Brown wasn't in his top 100 players in his statistical projections. Everyone ranked that low in the past who has been picked early has been a bust. 

 
thecatch said:
Kevin Pelton was on David Locke's podcast and said Jaylen Brown wasn't in his top 100 players in his statistical projections. Everyone ranked that low in the past who has been picked early has been a bust. 
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That reminds me, Nate Duncan had one of the DraftExpress dudes on his podcast yesterday, and it was pretty good. Duncan was fairly pro-Brown because of the skills he's flashed, and because Cal just had a weird, big team this year with no spacing.

 
tjnc09 said:
The entire Warriors team scored 89 points.  They all played like ####.  What is the point of saying this over and over again?  It's a team game. 
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If you want all the accolades of being the MVP and revel in all that that entails, you have to be prepared to take the hits when they are your fault. Choked in Game 7 is the last moment people have of Curry till next year.

 
*You can get lucky winning a game...not a Championship...nothing lucky about what the Cavs did...

*It can be hard separating on-court Lebron and off-court Lebron...off the court I have never bought his act...everything seems manufactured and totally un-genuine...just seems like kind of a fraud...on the court he is a generational talent...outside of Wilt and possibly Shaq you can't be much more of a physical freak...this Championship greatly adds to his resume on the All-Time great debate...at their peaks I still take Bird and Magic over him but he still has time to add to his body of work...I just don't see him in Jordan's class and that is not a knock on him...there is only one MJ...

*The Warriors are poised for a nice run...will be interesting to see how they handle this adversity...this is not a knock but things have gone pretty smoothly for them the past two years...does this loss make them tougher or more vulnerable... 

 
Heard the Lebatard show discussing if/how Lebron could build a super friends team in Cleveland now and wondered if any resident capologists could weigh in.

The idea would be along these lines: trade Irving for Paul, trade Love for Carmelo, let JR walk, Lebron agrees to play for nothing since he is getting $1B from Nike and doesn't need the money, sign Wade. They would still have Thompson, Shumpert, Frye, Mo Williams, and Dahntay Jones. Maybe they would re-sign Mozgov...

Is this doable? How good would this team be in comparison to this year's Cavs on offense and defense?

 
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