2015 NBA Thread: I felt a great disturbance in the trolls, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. (1 Viewer)

[Good Posting Judge]

Lebron is not a great shooter nor a Kareem or Shaq.  He's an all-time great but closer to Pippen then MJ.  Which is not a slap.  

His FT numbers have been sliding for years. His shooting from behind the arc, which at times been passable, pretty much disappeared this year. James is still a great defender, passer and rebounder, and a tremendous player overall, obviously, but he's faded a little. He does have the best 2FGA % among non-centers this year (Durant a close 2nd, Curry 3rd), and a lot of those shots he creates for himself. That's an incredibly valuable skill.

This thread, mirroring sports media at-large, has been prone to quite a bit of recency bias. Cleveland's still a great team. They are still unlikely to get swept. People were kicking dirt all over GS a couple weeks ago. People were also tongue-kissing Cleveland after what seemed like a pretty easy walk through their conference. Sometimes outliers happen. There's just no way GS is that many points better than Cleveland at home. They're better, but not by a ton.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

$$$

ETA: My God midwesterners are rubes 

 

[tjnc09]

Cavs are favored on Wednesday.

I was really surprised by that.  I was expecting GS to be a small favorite.

 

[tjnc09]

I think he's completely out of ideas to compete, which, to be honest, didn't exist in the first place. What adjustment would you make when 4/5 players on the floor at any given time are severely overmatched? I don't think he's spectacular for sure, and he is a rookie after all, but he also took over the team like 40 games ago.

He's made some rotational mistakes, sure, maybe even some egregious ones as he searches in vain for one that works. But let's not pretend he didn't defeat some good coaches on the way to the Finals. I'd also argue that he can't just bench Love and Kyrie for the smashmouth/grind it out lineup of yesteryear because that defeats their raison d'etre this whole season. They still have to sell their fans a credible bill of sale. Remember when they were going to out-Golden State Golden State and were breaking records for threes? They just can't do that against GS whose had the best 3-point defense all year. Maybe this Love "concussion" will give them cover for returning to that old Eastern Conference style, who knows. Blatt would have lost with this team, Kerr would have lost with this team, Phil Jackson, John Wooden, Vince Lombardi all would've lost with this team. 

What else can you say? LeBron is a year older and sucks as a GM 

Lue originally said he wanted to beat GS at their own game prior to their series by running and scoring easy buckets in transition.  That was the dumbest #### I have heard from a coach in the finals possibly ever.  That would frighten me as a Cavaliers fan.

Lue needs to go back and look at what Blatt did last year.  Blatt didn't win the championship but he won two games with James and a bench full of scrubs.  The more I think about that, the more amazing it is to me.  I seriously think Cleveland has to win a game something like 90-88.  But instead he has wanted to RUN?  

 

[tjnc09]

This thread, mirroring sports media at-large, has been prone to quite a bit of recency bias. Cleveland's still a great team. They are still unlikely to get swept. People were kicking dirt all over GS a couple weeks ago. People were also tongue-kissing Cleveland after what seemed like a pretty easy walk through their conference. Sometimes outliers happen. There's just no way GS is that many points better than Cleveland at home. They're better, but not by a ton.

I agree it's unlikely Cleveland gets swept.  I disagree GS isn't that much better than Cleveland at home.  If anything, GS should have beat Cleveland by 25+ in game 1.  Cleveland's defense has been absolutely pathetic and GS missed a number of wide open shots in g1.

The east was really, really terrible.  I don't believe Cleveland is a great team - a good team sure.  OKC in the postseason was a great team and rightfully so people could kick dirt on GS.

 

[Gr00vus]

It has been stated numerous times that Dwight Howard isn't the same guy he was in Orlando because of the injuries, is Kevin Love in that category too? I don't remember him being this soft in Minnesota, but he was hurt a lot play for them and then the shoulder last year. Maybe he is 27, but feeling like Kobe this year?

Love's the same player he was at UCLA. Stretch 4, gets boards, little to no post game, invisible on D. He thrived in Minny because they were a night off for the rest of the league.

 

[Short Corner]

Lebron is not a great shooter nor a Kareem or Shaq.  He's an all-time great but closer to Pippen then MJ.  Which is not a slap.  

MJ was a great shooter?

 

[Short Corner]

By the way, the point differential of 48 is the highest in Finals history after two games 

Average margin has been nineteen in their last seven meetings. 

 

[Good Posting Judge]

I think Steph lays awake at night thinking about winning another season MVP only to falter in the Finals and watching Green or Klay or Iggy hoisting that Finals MVP trophy. 

Wat.

Cavs are staying at the Four Seasons in SF, btw.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I'm never sure which is more comical, the fact LeBron actually won championships with the Heat and then pissed all over Pat Riley and the organization on the way out after secretly planning his escape as we come to learn in about Year 3, certainly wasn't into it with the Heat in year 4 as he was oh so wise to run back to Cleveland. Or the notion of him returning to Miami.

I may sound like a bitter Heat fan but you would be mistaken. What irritates me more is that media and the like are talking about him coming back to Miami. Yes I believe he realizes he cannot take the Heat's soul with him to Cleveland, it won't/hasn't happened. And the idea that the Heat would accept him back is sort of a farce. I can see the Heat wanting to find another superstar to bring into the cuts especially if Bosh is going to end up a no go and his contract would come off the books in 2017. 

Regardless of what anyone in here thinks, the Heat are probably one of a small group of teams that players know can actually navigate and win the GD thing. You can take 2-3 superstars, mix in a coach and try the formula on any of the 30 NBA teams but the reality is that formula seems to only work on a select few organizations. because once you have all this talent then somebody has to manage them, coach them, and lead them. Te Heat have all those problems figured out for the most part. It starts with Riley and then filters down thru the organization. 

I wish someone from the Heat or media close to it would shoot down any and all ideas of LBJ coming back to the Heat. I hope that is not in the back of his mind as an option when the Cavs situation becomes unbearable which it's going to be close to soon. He lost year 1 in Miami and disappeared vs Mavs, he looks similar with the Cavs except he isn't growing in Year 2. In fact LBJ is likely on his back 9, maybe the Final 6 holes even, time is running out for him to win as many titles as say Kobs or MJ. 

 

[Joe T]

The Eastern Conference has applied to be renamed the NBA C league.

"At least we can beat those D leaguers."

 

[Ghost Rider]

Exactly.

LBJ is an all time great player, but he's hurting the Cavs just as much as he helps. Sure without LBJ the Cavs would be a lottery team, but LBJ is THE ONE keeping the Cavs from being a championship team due to his desire to be GM and coach.

All Dan Gilbert and LBJ have to do is look at what is thing going on in Golden State. There's a chain of command and division of power/labor. Curry allows Kerr to coach him. Kerr doesn't have personnel control. Lacob allows Meyers to build the roster. Everyone does their job. It worked in MIA for James, but he left because Pat Riley was the boss.

Agreed, but that is the fault of the Cavs, who are so desperate to please James so he doesn't leave again, that they let him call the shots, which is a mistake.  Jordan was often displeased with the moves the Bulls made, but he got over it and they always worked out.  James desire to dictate coaching and player personnel is his biggest detriment.  Granted, he plays again for a clueless franchise that wouldn't make the right moves anyway if they didn't listen to him, but like you said, he had the perfect scenario in Miami and he left it. 

 

[timschochet]

New thread title is very funny. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

Cavs are favored on Wednesday.

$$$

ETA: My God midwesterners are rubes 

Remember when Cleveland beat the ever-loving #### out of Toronto in the first two games of the ECF and everyone thought the Raptors had given up and were just waiting for the season to end and Lowry was fat again and DeRozan was the Canadian Nick Young and everyone was amazed that Cleveland was only favored by a couple points in Game 3?

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

His FT numbers have been sliding for years. His shooting from behind the arc, which at times been passable, pretty much disappeared this year. James is still a great defender, passer and rebounder, and a tremendous player overall, obviously, but he's faded a little. He does have the best 2FGA % among non-centers this year (Durant a close 2nd, Curry 3rd), and a lot of those shots he creates for himself. That's an incredibly valuable skill.

This thread, mirroring sports media at-large, has been prone to quite a bit of recency bias. Cleveland's still a great team. They are still unlikely to get swept. People were kicking dirt all over GS a couple weeks ago. People were also tongue-kissing Cleveland after what seemed like a pretty easy walk through their conference. Sometimes outliers happen. There's just no way GS is that many points better than Cleveland at home. They're better, but not by a ton.

It's fascinating to me that LeBron's year-to-year FT% has fluctuated wildly with no real pattern.  Compared to other players who handle the ball as often as he does his FT% is low, but compared to other players his size it's not bad.  

I think it's amazing how well he shoots 2s given how much attention he gets.  

I'm curious what data trackers like SportVU have to say about him shooting threes.  Is he not shooting them as well as in the past, or is the drop from MIA to CLE because he no longer has other players creating uncontested threes for him?

When was the last full offseason for LeBron? 2009?  He's on six straight trips to the Finals, he's played for Team USA at the last three Olympics plus one summer at the Worlds.  I know these guys don't take a ton of time off, but he's at extremely high mileage for his model year.

Yeah, the recency bias in here is really bad, the Blatt >> Lue stuff is unsettlingly racist, and in general the weight given on how a team performs in Finals has on individual players' legacies here is just laughable.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Remember when Cleveland beat the ever-loving #### out of Toronto in the first two games of the ECF and everyone thought the Raptors had given up and were just waiting for the season to end and Lowry was fat again and DeRozan was the Canadian Nick Young and everyone was amazed that Cleveland was only favored by a couple points in Game 3?

Yea, so what? 

 

[TobiasFunke]

Yea, so what? 

So recency bias.

Golden State is clearly the better team, but that was true a week ago too. The last two games don't mean that the Cavs have magically turned into the 76ers, just like the first two games of the ECF didn't mean Toronto had turned into the 76ers, as they showed at home in Games 3 and 4. Smart money goes against the narrative, not with it.

 

[Da Guru]

It's fascinating to me that LeBron's year-to-year FT% has fluctuated wildly with no real pattern.  Compared to other players who handle the ball as often as he does his FT% is low, but compared to other players his size it's not bad.  

I think it's amazing how well he shoots 2s given how much attention he gets.  

I'm curious what data trackers like SportVU have to say about him shooting threes.  Is he not shooting them as well as in the past, or is the drop from MIA to CLE because he no longer has other players creating uncontested threes for him?

When was the last full offseason for LeBron? 2009?  He's on six straight trips to the Finals, he's played for Team USA at the last three Olympics plus one summer at the Worlds.  I know these guys don't take a ton of time off, but he's at extremely high mileage for his model year.

Yeah, the recency bias in here is really bad, the Blatt >> Lue stuff is unsettlingly racist, and in general the weight given on how a team performs in Finals has on individual players' legacies here is just laughable.

What?? Where did that come from?

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

So this has turned into a Mosgov Series then?  

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Remember when Cleveland beat the ever-loving #### out of Toronto in the first two games of the ECF and everyone thought the Raptors had given up and were just waiting for the season to end and Lowry was fat again and DeRozan was the Canadian Nick Young and everyone was amazed that Cleveland was only favored by a couple points in Game 3?

Yeah, would not at all be shocked if Cleveland took the next 2 at home.

 

[Da Guru]

The Warriors had a couple of sequences where their passing and ball movement left James and the rest of the Cavs just looking dumbfounded.  It was a thing of beauty that you rarely see in the NBA anymore. The way the game was meant to be played before all the isolation plays.

 

[identikit]

The Warriors had a couple of sequences where their passing and ball movement left James and the rest of the Cavs just looking dumbfounded.  It was a thing of beauty that you rarely see in the NBA anymore. The way the game was meant to be played before all the isolation plays.

I'd given up on watching NBA basketball till I saw the Warriors play in last year's Finals.

They play the right way.

 

[Insein]

So... what new team will Lebron be on next year after Decision 2?

 

[BassNBrew]

Cavs in 7.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Cavs in 7.

Cave will win 4 of the next 5?

That's what you're really saying at this point. 

Cavs are toast, out in 5. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

I'm not sure what you guys were watching the last few years if you think the NBA was iso-heavy before the Warriors. Isos haven't been in fashion for at least 5 years. Here's a column on NBA offenses by the numbers that's two years old (when the Warriors were just a feisty 6 seed) that pegs the % of Iso possessions at 8.33%.  Even if you add post-ups to that total you're still talking about less than 20% of plays being run with a single ballhandler/shooter doing the work while his teammates space the floor. 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

So... what new team will Lebron be on next year after Decision 2?

He's trying to get back with the Heat is the general consensus behind Stephen A Smith's closed doors. 

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

So Golden State has held serve in spectacular and unexpected fashion. Holding serve may not have been unexpected, but doing so with minimal offensive contribution from Curry and Thompson was unexpected, at least to me, perhaps others may have seen this coming.

I have seen no indication that Cleveland can turn this in game 3, but there have been surprising swings by teams this playoffs so I will sit and watch.  I will say I would like to see Curry and Thompson each have a breakout game or two yet.  When the are on they are simply amazing to watch.   I want some more or that before this season ends.

 

[Peyton Marino]

Cave will win 4 of the next 5?

That's what you're really saying at this point. 

thanks professor

 

[Ministry of Pain]

thanks professor

Dr MOP is going to have a nice ring to it. 

 

[mr fancypants]

Cavs in 7.

Good luck with that. The Warriors have won 7 straight games against the Cavs, dating back to last year’s finals.  The Cavs have shot under 40% in 6 of those 7 games, the one exception being this year’s regular season game in Cleveland, when the Cavs shot a robust 48.1% — and lost by 34 points.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Yea, so what? 

I actually agree that Cleveland is going to come and play in game 3... The public will be all over GS, that'll be your first sign that this is a trap. The oddsmakers know more than anyone in this thread.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Cavs in 7.

Do you want to bet a tunafish sammich?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Based on my review of this thread it appears that the dominant theme of this year's Finals is "You've chosen to ignore content by"

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

the Blatt >> Lue stuff is unsettlingly racist,

What the actual #### Bruce?

 

[fantasycurse42]

Based on my review of this thread it appears that the dominant theme of this year's Finals is "You've chosen to ignore content by"

You guys ever hear the saying "if you can't find the guppy at the table..."

This would be the definition in Websters.

 

[fantasycurse42]

What the actual #### Bruce?

Agree, can you elaborate? The Cavs look like deer in headlights right now - this comes down to their on-court leader and off-court leader. I don't think it could have less to do with race. I think the criticism would be coming in whether it is Lue/Blatt/D'Antoni/Phil Jackson/Doc Rivers or anyone else. 

 

[mr. furley]

So recency bias.

Golden State is clearly the better team, but that was true a week ago too. The last two games don't mean that the Cavs have magically turned into the 76ers, just like the first two games of the ECF didn't mean Toronto had turned into the 76ers, as they showed at home in Games 3 and 4. Smart money goes against the narrative, not with it.

i remember when SA beat the Thunder by 32 in game one of their series this season

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Can imagine the heat whipping-boy Blatt would have taken last year if the Cavs had started out like this? Even with the depleted roster?

 

[matuski]

I remember when people thought Lebron would catch Kobe.

 

[tjnc09]

Smart money goes against the narrative, not with it.

Narrative has absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Narrative has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Nothing to do with what?

 

[tjnc09]

Nothing to do with what?

where smart money goes

 

[stbugs]

Exactly.

LBJ is an all time great player, but he's hurting the Cavs just as much as he helps. Sure without LBJ the Cavs would be a lottery team, but LBJ is THE ONE keeping the Cavs from being a championship team due to his desire to be GM and coach.

All Dan Gilbert and LBJ have to do is look at what is thing going on in Golden State. There's a chain of command and division of power/labor. Curry allows Kerr to coach him. Kerr doesn't have personnel control. Lacob allows Meyers to build the roster. Everyone does their job. It worked in MIA for James, but he left because Pat Riley was the boss.

Agreed, but that is the fault of the Cavs, who are so desperate to please James so he doesn't leave again, that they let him call the shots, which is a mistake.  Jordan was often displeased with the moves the Bulls made, but he got over it and they always worked out.  James desire to dictate coaching and player personnel is his biggest detriment.  Granted, he plays again for a clueless franchise that wouldn't make the right moves anyway if they didn't listen to him, but like you said, he had the perfect scenario in Miami and he left it. 

Wait, I don't get all this talk. Wasn't it just a week or so ago that everyone was saying how great Lue was that he told LeBron to #### in the huddle? I seem to remember quite a few posts about being glad LeBron was put in his place and that Lue was so much better than Blatt and had control over the team. Now that they lose the first two it is back to LeBron is running the team wrong again? You can't have it both ways.

It's funny that I never realized how deep seated some of the hate for LeBron is. They would be a lottery team without him, yet he is keeping them from being a championship team? LOL, he has been the finals 6 straight years. How the hell is that keeping a team from being a championship level team? He has taken Cleveland three times to the one actual series where if they win, they actually win the championship. The Cavaliers have been to 3 Finals with LeBron and 0 Finals without LeBron they have been to 0 since they started in 1970.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Smart money doesn't gamble.

 

[Capella]

What the actual #### Bruce?

Yea I can't say I agree with that one. Although to be fair, lue does deserve an offseason to implement whatever kind of offense he wants. 

 

[stbugs]

I'm never sure which is more comical, the fact LeBron actually won championships with the Heat and then pissed all over Pat Riley and the organization on the way out after secretly planning his escape as we come to learn in about Year 3, certainly wasn't into it with the Heat in year 4 as he was oh so wise to run back to Cleveland. Or the notion of him returning to Miami.

I may sound like a bitter Heat fan but you would be mistaken. What irritates me more is that media and the like are talking about him coming back to Miami. Yes I believe he realizes he cannot take the Heat's soul with him to Cleveland, it won't/hasn't happened. And the idea that the Heat would accept him back is sort of a farce. I can see the Heat wanting to find another superstar to bring into the cuts especially if Bosh is going to end up a no go and his contract would come off the books in 2017. 

Regardless of what anyone in here thinks, the Heat are probably one of a small group of teams that players know can actually navigate and win the GD thing. You can take 2-3 superstars, mix in a coach and try the formula on any of the 30 NBA teams but the reality is that formula seems to only work on a select few organizations. because once you have all this talent then somebody has to manage them, coach them, and lead them. Te Heat have all those problems figured out for the most part. It starts with Riley and then filters down thru the organization. 

I wish someone from the Heat or media close to it would shoot down any and all ideas of LBJ coming back to the Heat. I hope that is not in the back of his mind as an option when the Cavs situation becomes unbearable which it's going to be close to soon. He lost year 1 in Miami and disappeared vs Mavs, he looks similar with the Cavs except he isn't growing in Year 2. In fact LBJ is likely on his back 9, maybe the Final 6 holes even, time is running out for him to win as many titles as say Kobs or MJ. 

I don't know what is more comical than this post. LeBron guided the Heat to 2 of their 3 championships. The other came when they paired Shaq with Wade. So, that makes the Heat one of the few teams that can win the thing? It sure seems like LeBron's Cavs have been to the last two NBA Finals while the Heat are sitting and watching.

You are just a bitter Heat fan.

Personally, I didn't care who won this year's championship. I like Curry (Charlotte born and a Panthers fan) and I wouldn't mind Cleveland getting their first championship. I just think it is funny how much people want to tear LeBron down or blame him when they do poorly and credit others when they do well.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

The level of stupid in here definitely amps up during playoffs 

 

[Capella]

The level of stupid in here definitely amps up during playoffs 

It's the most wonderful time of the year. 

 

[fantasycurse42]

They would be a lottery team without him.

Bull####!!

Not in the East.