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2015 Oakland Raiders Thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Raiderfan32904
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Chaka
Footballguy
If Williams is there at four I absolutely think they should pass on a WR. WR is a deep position and it seems that every year more and more 2nd & 3rd round WRs are coming in and providing instant production.
Chaka
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
That was my thinking about all of these guys, but it seems like Fowler and Dupree are most likely to be 4-3 DEs, Fowler already weighs 260.
As it relates to the Jags, they run that hybrid, with a Leo, and they are missing the Charles Haley type, so Fowler, Beasley or Gregory all could make sense. Frankly, from a need standpoint, seems more pressing to get that edge guy.
Chaka
Footballguy
I like the notion of a good edge rusher as much as the next guy but it seems a guy like Williams, who can play all over the line, can bring plenty of heat on the QB and will command enough attention from opposing offenses that it will free up Mack to wreak havoc all over the field. A guy like Fowler seems like more of a one trick pony (no doubt it could turn into a devastating trick) that will be easier to scheme against. I am also not sure he will consistently hold up against the run, something I have no concern about with Williams.
For me it's Williams over Fowler by a country mile. Now if the Jags take Williams (which I think they will) it becomes a question of Fowler vs Cooper, personally I think that is the point where you try and drop down a few spots and target Kevin White.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I don't think Williams is a proven edge rusher, and he's basically going to rotate with Jelly as a situational player. They are the same guy, just about. Greg Cossell ripped him pretty hard on a recent podcast. Fowler is an edge rusher, perfect for our 4-3 scheme, and will be an impact player for whoever he ends up with. Not buying the Williams hype.
Of course I should reiterate here that I want Cooper at #4 all along.
Of course I should reiterate here that I want Cooper at #4 all along.
Chaka
Footballguy
Wat?
80 tackles, 9.5 tackles for loss, 7 sacks, 1 int and 3 forced fumbles last year from both DE and DT. He started all but four games during his career at USC. He 's 6'5", 302 lbs which is built nothing like Jelly who is a wide-body lane (and toilet) clogger at 6'2" 334. There is zero similarity in their games, when Williams plays DT he has proven ability to put pressure on the QB, Ellis was credited with 0 QB pressures last year, he's there to stuff the run. I can understand if Cossell got on Williams case for not giving 100% all year last year, OTOH as I get older I really don't begrudge these guys if they want to protect themselves so they can get their big payday.
At 260 Fowler is smallish for a 4-3 DE there have to be legitimate concerns about his ability to hold the edge. I guess he could turn into Robert Quinn but he seems to project as a 3-4 pass rushing OLB. He had a great year with 15 tackles for loss and 8.5 sacks and the Raiders should be happy if they get him but he's a guy without a defined role in a 4-3 (IMO) and looks a lot like Khalil Mack without the guaranteed versatility.
LawFitz
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
Williams looks a lot like a 4-3 LE to me, that can kick inside on passing downs, and maybe move up and down the line. If we had Jason-Pierre Paul, I would say he looks like 3-tech DT.
Williams and Cooper seem like Reggie picks to me. I think if Williams is gone, there won't be too many curveballs from Oakland. Looking at the WRs Green Bay has drafted, and won with, there's a lot of solid physical specimens, but it's not a basketball team. I don't see Reggie falling for White's more impressive physique, and passing on a guy in Cooper that checks all the boxes, did it for multiple years, and is quite a bit younger.
If Reggie had to choose between Williams and Cooper, THAT would be an interesting outcome, I really don't know which way he'd lean.
Williams and Cooper seem like Reggie picks to me. I think if Williams is gone, there won't be too many curveballs from Oakland. Looking at the WRs Green Bay has drafted, and won with, there's a lot of solid physical specimens, but it's not a basketball team. I don't see Reggie falling for White's more impressive physique, and passing on a guy in Cooper that checks all the boxes, did it for multiple years, and is quite a bit younger.
If Reggie had to choose between Williams and Cooper, THAT would be an interesting outcome, I really don't know which way he'd lean.
massraider
Footballguy
Adam Carriker threw up 40 at the vet combine. Always liked him, he's still only 30 years old!! Would be OK with him coming to camp.
Chaka
Footballguy
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
And this, in a nut shell, is why the Raiders have little chance of winning under Davis. He is happy as a tenant in one of the worst stadiums in the league. He cannot charge top dollar PSL fees playing at that pig styie. Consequently he doesn't have the cash flow to attract impact FAs with guaranteed contracts. And uncertainty about the team's future home also discourages top FAs from considering Oakland. The title of the article may as well have read "Mark Davis absolutely happy losing."
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massraider
Footballguy
He was one of the young free agents I didn't want.
I think Foster is still considered/valued as a starter, although I wouldn't be surprised if he only gets a 1 year deal from Chicago. Free agent deals at this point, these guys aren't thrilled with their options, so the one year deal makes sense.
I watched more of Foster than any non-Bucs fan has a need to (IDP fantasy), and I thought he was a guy that had a nice start to his career, and never improved. Athletically, no problem. But he has below average instincts in coverage, and not strong vs. the run. Lot of Kirk Morrison-type production, grabbing guys 6 yards downfield.
Bears fans are probably gonna be happy they got him, but I bet by November they are thinking about a replacement.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Anyone else hear Reggie on MTC with Pat and Jim today? Sounded like he just smoked a bag of weed. Also said "defense wins championships" in reference to JDR. I count five teams in the past 28 years who won a Super Bowl with a better defense than offense. But I'm splitting hairs. I'll settle for vast improvement and competitiveness this season.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Also, memo to Jim Miller: "Maybe just talk about" IS NOT A QUESTION!!!! 
massraider
Footballguy
Big fan of the Bears adding hungry guys on one year deals. Also approve of the Browns signing vets that still some left to give. But I must ask:
WHERE ARE THE YOUNG CORE PLAYERS??!!!??
Or was that just an Oakland 2014 meme?
Both these freaking teams are doing exactly what Reggie did last year, and their fans, some of whom were in here making fun of the strategy last year, are prattling on about what good moves they made.
WHERE ARE THE YOUNG CORE PLAYERS??!!!??
Or was that just an Oakland 2014 meme?
Both these freaking teams are doing exactly what Reggie did last year, and their fans, some of whom were in here making fun of the strategy last year, are prattling on about what good moves they made.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
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Chaka
Footballguy
Would you please unpack this a little? By all accounts Mark Davis is cash poor. Not the same as being poor, he's a freaking NFL team owner, but he may have the lowest cash flow of any owner in the league. Pretty sure that's why he is going with the Green Bay model of team building.
Anyone have numbers on how much cash each NFL owner generates and what % comes from the team?
Chaka
Footballguy
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Regarding Mason Foster, I can double down on what has been said before. I watch maybe too much Bucs football and I completely agree that he had a promising rookie year and tailed off from there. I live in Bucs country and you never heard so much belly aching about one guy that needed to go than Foster.
cstu
Footballguy
Regardless of the reasons he's building the team this way, he's using the GB model.Chaka said:
Every NFL team produces positive cash flow (except the Lions somehow). The Raiders have one of the lowest revenues in the league, but they have a healthy operating income of $42M.
Chaka
Footballguy
I agree that they don't need to sign high priced free agents (I think it was a good idea to forgo on Suh) I am just not sure that they could sign one even if they wanted to.
This year was too soon to consider a true marquee free agent but if things continue to improve through the draft and this year's FA signings then maybe next year they could be in a position on the field that going after that "one missing piece" would make sense. The problem is that Oakland may not be able to afford it, plus the premium necessary to offset California taxes, if/when the time comes.
Chaka
Footballguy
Looking a little more into that Forbes piece the Raiders $42 mil operating expenses is not bad relative to the rest of the league but thier $244 mil in revenue is dead last.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Mock draft special on NFLN. Daniel Jeremiah has us taking Cooper. Bucky Brooks has us taking Kevin White. I wouldn't break stuff around the house with either pick, though I think it would be possible to trade down 2-3 spots and still get White. And if not, so what. Still plenty of talent in the top-10.
CalBear
Footballguy
CalBear
Footballguy
Most teams make their money from customers.
The Raiders make money by bamboozling the City Council. It worked back in the day; if we're lucky it won't work again.
(And, bamboozling City Councils is a common thing among NFL owners, but most cities don't wind up contributing money directly to the team's bottom line in perpetuity.)
Chaka
Footballguy
I know you mentioned it earlier but please remind me how much the Raiders get from Oakland each year.
CalBear
Footballguy
It's something between $10M and $20M a year depending on how crappy the team is. The city guaranteed sellouts, so when the Raiders suck (and when don't they?), Oakland pays more. Plus debt service on $100M in bonds for a stadium that's about to get torn down.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Guys, the nested quotes. Please....
This thread is impossible to read on mobile.
This thread is impossible to read on mobile.
Chaka
Footballguy
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I don't trust the guy that sounds like he smoked a bag of weed and mumbles about defense winning championships. Put me in the camp that we stay tight at #4 and take Cooper...or White. Just get a receiver and be done with it.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Agree. Cooper is certainly more polished, but would be just as happy with an additional pick for depth and a guy like White who brings explosiveness and plays angry.
Nearly every mock I see has experts having us go WR. It is an area of obvious need, and White or Cooper fit that bill. But assuming that the Titans go with Williams, taking a guy who could provide the D a better pass rush like Randy Gregory is just as defensible as passing on Cooper or White to nab a potential breakouts later on, like DeVante Parker and Jaelen Strong, who are solid all around receivers, or home-run hitters like Devin Smith or Philip Dorsett.
massraider
Footballguy
You know, once Jax took Bortles last year, according to McKenzie, there was no debate. Mack all day. Evans and Watkins were clearly less valued last year. WR was a huge need last year as well.
If the Raiders have Fowler or Williams or whomever you like at edge player ranked over Cooper and White, he ain't taking a WR. Getting a shot at a clean prospect at D-line is so much more rare than WR. Average talents at WR can have great games, and ever great seasons. Not so on the defensive line.
McKenzie came from Green Bay, he knows better than anyone that you can always find WRs.
But drafting Cooper sure seems like giving a young quarterback his Marvin Harrison. Also, a young WR, you have a much better chance of impact plays from him THIS season. If you don't have the best job security, maybe the draft pick with the best early returns, even if it's not the best pick long-term, makes sense.
If the Raiders have Fowler or Williams or whomever you like at edge player ranked over Cooper and White, he ain't taking a WR. Getting a shot at a clean prospect at D-line is so much more rare than WR. Average talents at WR can have great games, and ever great seasons. Not so on the defensive line.
McKenzie came from Green Bay, he knows better than anyone that you can always find WRs.
But drafting Cooper sure seems like giving a young quarterback his Marvin Harrison. Also, a young WR, you have a much better chance of impact plays from him THIS season. If you don't have the best job security, maybe the draft pick with the best early returns, even if it's not the best pick long-term, makes sense.
Chaka
Footballguy
Randy Gregory failed a drug test at the combine. AT THE COMBINE FOR CRIPES SAKE!!! Everyone knows they are going to be tested for drugs at the combine and this guy STILL FAILED!
He now enters the league in the substance abuse program.
The good news is that means he should be available a little later in the first round but all-in-all I think the Raiders need to pass on him. They are not in a position to take a chance on someone who may be the next Josh Gordon/Justin Blackmon.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Not that Reggie has to be a Ted Thompson clone, but the second round seemed to a sweet spot for WRs in GB (Cobb, Jennings, among others, I think). But they haven't had a lot of high picks, period, so hard to predict how appealing a blue chip prospect like Cooper or White might be. I think they would take Williams if he drops (but don't think he will, some scouts have him as the top player in the draft), not as sure about the pass rushers like Fowler, etc.Good point about taking the player that helps most now. I typically think of the GM as the buffer that does what is best for the franchise in the long term, but if his job is on the line, too, it might be unrealistic to expect him to be immune from feeling the kind of self-preservation type urgency that may dictate the most expedient move.
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massraider
Footballguy
Had failed tests at Nebraska as well. Built like an NBA small forward,safe to say he's off our board. This'll drop him out of the top 10, I am sure.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
We used to love the bad boys.massraider said:
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Lets replace Carr, who showed some potential to be good, with a rookie that many experts feel may not transition well to the NFL. No. Just no.Faust said:
Chaka
Footballguy
I wouldn't pull the trigger on that either but I'm not sold on Carr yet either. Carr has some good superficial numbers but that 5.5 YPA should be a concern to any Raider fan, that's like Joey Harrington bad.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Exactly, that article is categorically moronic. Even if Carr isn't the guy, you build around him until you find out. If he's not, we'll be picking again early very soon and be able to try again, but with, hopefully, better pieces. Every year a shiny new penny comes along, you can't just spend top 5 picks every time you like one.
massraider
Footballguy
That's just some Hot Take clickbait crap. Not even worth the bandwidth.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/03/27/introducing-tackles-per-opportunity/
Article from PFF regarding a new stat of theirs, Tackles per Opportunity, it's a good read. 57 qualifying linebackers, and Lofton was 5th. Miles Burris? 48th.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/03/27/introducing-tackles-per-opportunity/
Article from PFF regarding a new stat of theirs, Tackles per Opportunity, it's a good read. 57 qualifying linebackers, and Lofton was 5th. Miles Burris? 48th.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Carr showed some potential with little running game and a mess at WR. If there was a better QB prospect falling into the Raiders lap at the 4 spot then I could see the argument. However, I am not sold on any QB in this draft. This QB class is very weak. Now is the time to grab the edge rusher, DT, or WR in the first rounds.
Build around Carr. See where he stands in a year or two. Keep filling holes during that time. Then draft a QB. You will still have a young team to insert a new QB at that time. Quality vets are not coming to Oakland. This rebuild is going to take a lot of time.
Aikman was 1-15 his first season in Dallas. Build around Carr. No point in giving up on the kid who showed potential on a horribly bad team. If there is only one positive to take away from last season, it's that the Raiders possibly found their QB of the future. Mariota is a good kid, but he's a project.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
You mean like how I almost broke my steering column when we took Heyward-Bey? Yea, I agree, I am good with either Cooper or White at this point based off of what I have read evualations on each. I have not done any personal research to have my own take on it but it seems to me the selection between the two is Cooper seems to be more polished while White has more raw talent.
I would be ok with trading back a few slots but not too far. I think our moves have added more depth and filled some need. What we really need an impact player as a pass rusher or pass catcher. I do fall into draft talent and not need but I think the top talent falls nicely in with our need as well this year. We are not going to take a TE that early in the first so that means WR- enter Cooper or White. Williams will likely be gone by us. Gregory is falling like a rock now. A few other possibilities but if we stand pat and unless Williams unexpectedly falls- I can not see how we draft anyone other than Cooper or White and either makes sense in terms of need and talent. But hey- if there was an elite LT available (I don't see that in this draft) then I would want that guy and figure out how to make it work later.
The Marriota stuff is just plain "how do I think out of the box to create buzz for my writing and keep a job" kind of thing. No GM who just drafted a QB who showed the promise of Carr is going to do that. The only way any GM does that if they came in and Carr was not their guy. Otherwise, unless you clearly made the right call (Carr fails or Marriota is the next Marino, Elway, Manning) then they not only got themselves fired but they would have a hard time finding work again as a GM.
massraider
Footballguy
Victor Cotto @cottovic · 15h15 hours ago
#Raiders like A.Armstead... they like him and have higher than other "projections."
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Victor Cotto @cottovic · 15h15 hours ago
#Raiders have looked at tape of many DBs in recent days & like I said months ago, they still have high grade on: Jacoby Glenn.
#Raiders like A.Armstead... they like him and have higher than other "projections."
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Victor Cotto @cottovic · 15h15 hours ago#Raiders have looked at tape of many DBs in recent days & like I said months ago, they still have high grade on: Jacoby Glenn.
