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2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Capella
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msudaisy26
Footballguy
It is to balance the league out. Do you really want to see 10 players packed inside of 18 feet all of the time? There would be no reason to shoot outside.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
It should be arbitrary - the refs can decide what was worth 3, no line on the court.
rodg12
Footballguy
Would need to expand the court to make it any deeper in the corners. Not sure that is feasible. Also, added spacing to a team with shooters like the Warriors is not helping anyone. Not helpful to give defenders even MORE ground to cover.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
They can make designated circles on the court, if you're standing in one, 3 pointer
Maybe even add in a 4 or 5 pointer beyond half court.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
like the refs don't get complained about enough.
Capella
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
It should be on a player by player basis. I don't want to sound ridiculous and make Javale McGee shoot a 30 footer.
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
So a big body with post moves and passing ability? I believe those players succeed in any era.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
It wasn't like that before the three point line - in college basketball at least (don't remember the NBA before it). Teams still shot from the outside to draw defenders out and if they were open. Chris Mullin lived hitting jumpers from the outside at St. John's and there was no 3 point line.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
A 3 year dominate stretch by 2 teams and we want to roll the rules back 35 years? Are you messing with me? Might as well go back to peach baskets and a jump ball after every made bucket, it worked so well for Naismith.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
It's the trey - and, surprisingly to an off-my-lawn type like me, the new zone & hand-checking rules - that made the NBA watchable again. FratelloBall had killed the old game and the uncoachability of players who made their dough through pure physical superiority kept it from evolving. When coaches figured out, after a mere 20 yrs, that a .333 trey avg equalled a .500 from two and started coaching to it and the new rules spread the court further, players who couldnt run & screen & switch & defend became obsolete.
When the Dubs then showed that a championship could be won from outside - as ridiuculous a notion as a Trump presidency 2-3 years ago - young coaches and players found the fun in the game again. Still, only half the league subscribes, but it will only get more exciting game-by-game (though the 82-game schedule may have to go to support the daily mileage necessary to the modern game) as they come aboard and, if someone figures out a post-position movement matrix that re-factors the inside game, it could get more fun still. The post-season may not be as fun, but the reg season will be better.
When the Dubs then showed that a championship could be won from outside - as ridiuculous a notion as a Trump presidency 2-3 years ago - young coaches and players found the fun in the game again. Still, only half the league subscribes, but it will only get more exciting game-by-game (though the 82-game schedule may have to go to support the daily mileage necessary to the modern game) as they come aboard and, if someone figures out a post-position movement matrix that re-factors the inside game, it could get more fun still. The post-season may not be as fun, but the reg season will be better.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Honestly, I've thought about this well before the last two years. The math on the current three point line is such that offensive play is going to get less and less diverse as people realize that even a well-guarded look at a three is often better than a clean look from 15 feet.
It's not the worst thing in the world, as defenses have and will continue to adjust and then offenses will presumably counter those adjustments - eg I think the Spurs % of FG attempts from three have actually gone down in the last two years after being at the vanguard of the corner three revolution. But it's worth monitoring and even considering since it will take a lot of work to figure out if they decide to move it.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
The idea of moving the three point line back predates the Warriors' recent run. Here's a Kirk Goldsberry column on it from just after the 2013-14 Finals (Spurs over Heat).
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msudaisy26
Footballguy
If anything maybe some teams need to adjust to the Warriors. The Cavs could try a wrinkle to the 2 - 3 zone. Put LeBron in/near the paint to get some rest and have the other 4 guys near near the 3 point line and force them to drive and not shoot 3's. Obviously it doesn't hurt Durant, but Curry, and Klay are much more comfortable shooting outside and Draymond isn't a slasher. What is the worst that happens they lose by 30?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I'm not vehemently arguing for it - was just piggybacking off some one else's post, but I do find the 3 point game less exciting than drives to the basket and players shooting from all over. The three point game has dominated basketball now. I get why, but just don't think it's as appealing to watch.
Was also responding to your inaccurate statement about 10 guys playing inside of the paint if the 3 point shot was eliminated, since it wasn't that way in the past - you added the hyperbole.
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
Make dunks worth 3 points and you'll get a whole lot of focus on post play.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I don't think it was hyperbole. It was a different game back then, there were a lot more rim protectors and you could just camp in the paint. There are rules against that now and less of the traditional big men. I think everyone would try to live in the paint because of that.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
What if we give four points if the dunks are particularly high-flying and disrespectful?
msudaisy26
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
When they give points for getting in the way, Wiggy will send the Wolves soaring past the Warriors
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
Why not just draw the line that the 3 point line just ends up OB about 5 feet up the sideline? That would solve a lot of the issue. Basically make it a circle rather than an ellipse.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
My green's prettier than yoursThey should trade him to the Celtics, I heard green is Wiggins best color.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
That's one of the two possibilities he mentions at the end, along with expanding the court. Might go too far in the other direction and re-clog the paint if you take away the 180 degree threat, but I dunno. Worth studying/discussing for sure.
Vanilla Guerrilla
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
This makes me think of Slamball, which makes me smile.
And how fun would the video replays be to determine if a basket was a shot or a dunk?
Vanilla Guerrilla
Footballguy
And instead of getting 3 boring foul shots when fouled on a dunk, dude has to dunk from somewhere ridiculous to get the points.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
In Slamball there a penalty shot-like scenario where the shooter could take a running start and hit the trampoline to go for the dunk, but the opponent could designate a defender who could use the trampoline right under the basket to launch himself in defense of the rim.
Dedfin
Footballguy
Someone wrote a column about home teams deciding where the draw the 3 point line, like how MLB clubs more or less determine what a HR is. I forgot the column but I'm sure it's out there. edit - found it. It's an idea not formed by some dunce, I think this guy is an analytics expert that has some accomplishments. Thoughts?
https://www.wired.com/2016/06/three-ideas-remaking-three-point-shot/
Goldsberry’s most radical suggestion is letting each team paint the line where it sees fit, within reason. "People have honestly told me this is the stupidest thing I’ve ever said," he says.
Major League Baseball does this, though. The distance to the outfield wall varies with each ballpark, significantly impacting the chance of a home run. The official rules of Major League Baseball state, "A distance of 320 feet or more along the foul lines, and 400 feet or more to center field is preferable." That provides wide latitude and contributes to the personality of places like AT&T Park in San Francisco or Wrigley Field in Chicago. It accounts for how managers set rosters to take advantage of the unique geometry in a home stadium.
The NBA already allows teams to alter uniforms and chose how they paint the court, Goldsberry argues. Why not let them create a home-court advantage in which each team is familiar with the line at home, but constantly adjusting on the road? "I think it would be interesting to consider what the NBA would look like if there was a 36-foot line in Indiana and a 22-foot line in some other place," said Goldsberry.
Such an approach would see teams draw a line that suits their roster while combating opponents' strengths. The Warriors could set the line further back and capitalize on its sharpshooting, for example, while the Miami Heat—who made 1,112 fewer attempts this season—could move the line in, increasing their odds of sinking threes.
https://www.wired.com/2016/06/three-ideas-remaking-three-point-shot/
Goldsberry’s most radical suggestion is letting each team paint the line where it sees fit, within reason. "People have honestly told me this is the stupidest thing I’ve ever said," he says.
Major League Baseball does this, though. The distance to the outfield wall varies with each ballpark, significantly impacting the chance of a home run. The official rules of Major League Baseball state, "A distance of 320 feet or more along the foul lines, and 400 feet or more to center field is preferable." That provides wide latitude and contributes to the personality of places like AT&T Park in San Francisco or Wrigley Field in Chicago. It accounts for how managers set rosters to take advantage of the unique geometry in a home stadium.
The NBA already allows teams to alter uniforms and chose how they paint the court, Goldsberry argues. Why not let them create a home-court advantage in which each team is familiar with the line at home, but constantly adjusting on the road? "I think it would be interesting to consider what the NBA would look like if there was a 36-foot line in Indiana and a 22-foot line in some other place," said Goldsberry.
Such an approach would see teams draw a line that suits their roster while combating opponents' strengths. The Warriors could set the line further back and capitalize on its sharpshooting, for example, while the Miami Heat—who made 1,112 fewer attempts this season—could move the line in, increasing their odds of sinking threes.
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mr. furley
Footballguy
Dedfin
Footballguy
sjslacker
Footballguy
Game of Zones - S4:E8: 'Father of Balls'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHmX2xnH-sU&index=1&list=PLoqDIJHlyN3NIPW9D37rQEceGNZEiRmMX
One of the best episodes yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHmX2xnH-sU&index=1&list=PLoqDIJHlyN3NIPW9D37rQEceGNZEiRmMX
One of the best episodes yet.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I think a great rule change would be implementing something along the lines of, and I am just spitballing here...
a. A player who receives the ball while standing still may pivot, using either foot as the pivot foot.
b. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may take two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing must release the ball to start his dribble before his second step.
The first step occurs when a foot, or both feet, touch the floor after gaining control of the ball.
The second step occurs after the first step when the other foot touches the floor, or both feet touch the floor simultaneously.
A player who comes to a stop on step one when both feet are on the floor or touch the floor simultaneously may pivot using either foot as his pivot. If he jumps with both feet he must release the ball before either foot touches the floor.
A player who lands with one foot first may only pivot using that foot.
A progressing player who jumps off one foot on the first step may land with both feet simultaneously for the second step. In this situation, the player may not pivot with either foot and if one or both feet leave the floor the ball must be released before either returns to the floor.
c. In starting a dribble after (1) receiving the ball while standing still, or (2) coming to a legal stop, the ball must be out of the player’s hand before the pivot foot is raised off the floor.
d. If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.
e. A player who falls to the floor while holding the ball, or while coming to a stop, may not gain an advantage by sliding.
f. A player who attempts a field goal may not be the first to touch the ball if it fails to touch the backboard, basket ring or another player.
g. A player is not allowed be the first to touch his own pass unless the ball touches his backboard, basket ring or another player.
h. Upon ending his dribble or gaining control of the ball, a player may not touch the floor consecutively with the same foot (hop).
a. A player who receives the ball while standing still may pivot, using either foot as the pivot foot.
b. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may take two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing must release the ball to start his dribble before his second step.
The first step occurs when a foot, or both feet, touch the floor after gaining control of the ball.
The second step occurs after the first step when the other foot touches the floor, or both feet touch the floor simultaneously.
A player who comes to a stop on step one when both feet are on the floor or touch the floor simultaneously may pivot using either foot as his pivot. If he jumps with both feet he must release the ball before either foot touches the floor.
A player who lands with one foot first may only pivot using that foot.
A progressing player who jumps off one foot on the first step may land with both feet simultaneously for the second step. In this situation, the player may not pivot with either foot and if one or both feet leave the floor the ball must be released before either returns to the floor.
c. In starting a dribble after (1) receiving the ball while standing still, or (2) coming to a legal stop, the ball must be out of the player’s hand before the pivot foot is raised off the floor.
d. If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.
e. A player who falls to the floor while holding the ball, or while coming to a stop, may not gain an advantage by sliding.
f. A player who attempts a field goal may not be the first to touch the ball if it fails to touch the backboard, basket ring or another player.
g. A player is not allowed be the first to touch his own pass unless the ball touches his backboard, basket ring or another player.
h. Upon ending his dribble or gaining control of the ball, a player may not touch the floor consecutively with the same foot (hop).
Short Corner
Footballguy
Umm, yeah, that hasn't been the case for 6 years.Vanilla Guerrilla said:
tdoss
Footballguy
I have a radical idea...how about just enforce the rules...as they are stated...regardless of player "status" or home court.
Add a couple refs if you need to...
This game is a damn mess to watch nowadays. It's hard to forget tampering when you see so many missed calls and leeway given depending on who did it and if they were at home or not.
Add a couple refs if you need to...
This game is a damn mess to watch nowadays. It's hard to forget tampering when you see so many missed calls and leeway given depending on who did it and if they were at home or not.
bananafish
Footballguy
Kevin Love to Indiana for Paul George? Seems plausible.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
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