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2016 Green Bay Packers thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter sho nuff
- Start date
flapgreen
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Agreed. I still maintain that Rodgers was the best QB in football from 2010-2014, but he hasn't been the same the last season plus. It doesn't help that the offensive play calling has zero imagination - seems like every pass play is having him drop back and waiting for someone to get open, rather that designing plays - but he just doesn't look like the magnificent QB we had been used to.
Gopher State
Footballguy
Home game with the Lions will fix all of the Packer/Rogers problems.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
Spot on. This game was pretty much even. Look at the time of possession and total yards. The difference was field position and the QB play. Who would ever think that a game where the difference is QB play that Rodgers would lose to Bradford?
I didn't have a problem with going for it on 4th and one but I did have a problem with the personnel and play call. If you are going to run it on that play then you should have Lacy in there with a fullback. And if you do have Starks in there and Chicago has I think 7 or 8 in the box then why isn't Rodgers calling an audible? 4th and 1 I like my chances better with a pass to Jordy Nelson in single coverage than a run in to the line with Starks. Not only does Rodgers look off with his accuracy but his mental part of the game seems off as well.
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The Packers oline is terrible. They have neglected it for some time. Rodgers has little time to throw and bails early because he doesn't trust them. The coach probably doesn't either based on the play calling. They took shots with Bulaga and Sherrod but they both were busts. They really need help up front to get the offense clicking. I believe the exact same thing for Indy and Luck.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
Wait, what? Not sure you really have watched these two games. Or Bulaga's career calling him a bust.
The line isnt even close to the problem right now.
Pipes
Footballguy
Are we watching the same Packers team? The offensive line is fine...way better than the Vikings.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
This is true the Packers offensive line is pretty solid. The Vikings defenders are just that good, so there is still pressure.
The Vikings defense has gotten better about not letting Rodgers roll out at will and extend the play.
Pipes
Footballguy
Sack percentage is not a great stat in judging offensive lines when you have a team that is always amongst the league leaders in passing attempts and a QB with a propensity to hold onto the ball as long as possible. The o line isn't great but it's average to slightly above average.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
The real problem is Ted and Mike. They haven't supplied the team with fresh talent. The receivers are below average. Ted has been lackluster in the first round pick since Matthews.
Randall - bust
Ha Ha - pretty good
Datone - reach
Perry - meh
Sherrod - bust
Bulaga - decent
Leaving DeAndre Hopkins and Harrison Smith on the board to reach for Datone Jones and Nick Perry respectively is the kind of thing that holds this team back.
Randall - bust
Ha Ha - pretty good
Datone - reach
Perry - meh
Sherrod - bust
Bulaga - decent
Leaving DeAndre Hopkins and Harrison Smith on the board to reach for Datone Jones and Nick Perry respectively is the kind of thing that holds this team back.
hauser42
Footballguy
Sherrod issue had nothing to do with talent it was a freak injury that almost cost the guy is his leg. How can that be Ted or Mike fault?
Perry and Jones are bad picks but they were trying to get Clay help on other side.
Take a look around the league and see how many ex Packer picks are on other teams. Amazing how much talent has come threw Green Bay in the last 10 years. Other teams are quick to grab up Packer cast offs because they have a highly likely to stick with that team.
Issue has been McCarthy has wasted talent given to him by Ted with his poor judgement. The coaching staff lacks talent on it and McCarthy is staying loyal to them. Sunday night across the field was Norv Turner, Pat Shurmer and Tony Sparano top end guys at there spots around the NFL. Look what the Packers have Edgar Bennett, Alex Van Pelt and James Campen. There is better talent out there to have on the staff but McCarthy wont make a change till it cost the team aka Slocum.
McCarthy offense is once again struggling even with Nelson back. Yesterday in the news conference McCarthy said the team needed to run the ball more. He calls the plays and decides after the game they needed to run the ball more, amazing how he gets away with such BS.
Pipes
Footballguy
This is probably on par with most teams picking at the end of the first round every year. When you look at rounds 2 and beyond Thompson blows most GMs away. I haven't been a fan of all his first round picks but he's been a solid drafter. His stubbornness with free agents is Thompson's big weakness. Not saying to throw money at guys past their peak but there are solid bargains out there every year and they do nothing.
Disagree on TT. Every metric out there shows he's blown away other GMs over the last decade on draft pick usage. You can't hit on every single pick.
I don't blame him for not taking WRs high. Conventional wisdom says that's not necessary. Nobody can even name the WRs that Brady had during his first three Super Bowls (hint, Randy Moss or Wes Welker weren't there yet). I'll take a great QB and solid defense over a great QB/WR and a sieve defense. QBs make WRs better.
The only one that irks me is Allen Robinson. He was on the board in late round 2 when the packers were picking and they took Davante Adams instead. Most of the metric sites out there were pimping Robinson HARD because of his success on the age curve relative to his competition (big ten). It would have only taken a 2nd round pick and they took a WR anyway. Instead they took the guy who had a great season against mediocre competition (fresno state). That was a bad pick at the time and even worse as it has unfolded. Imagine Robinson with Rodgers right now... my goodness.
I don't blame him for not taking WRs high. Conventional wisdom says that's not necessary. Nobody can even name the WRs that Brady had during his first three Super Bowls (hint, Randy Moss or Wes Welker weren't there yet). I'll take a great QB and solid defense over a great QB/WR and a sieve defense. QBs make WRs better.
The only one that irks me is Allen Robinson. He was on the board in late round 2 when the packers were picking and they took Davante Adams instead. Most of the metric sites out there were pimping Robinson HARD because of his success on the age curve relative to his competition (big ten). It would have only taken a 2nd round pick and they took a WR anyway. Instead they took the guy who had a great season against mediocre competition (fresno state). That was a bad pick at the time and even worse as it has unfolded. Imagine Robinson with Rodgers right now... my goodness.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
I agree with MM that they need to run the ball more. Now...I disagree with how he has run it. This slow developing crap to the outside with Lacy is not the answer. Nor are short yardage shot gun plays to Starks.
And like others have said...quit with Cobb in the backfield and get him out running patterns from the slot and trying to do damage in the middle of the field please.
And like others have said...quit with Cobb in the backfield and get him out running patterns from the slot and trying to do damage in the middle of the field please.
Pipes
Footballguy
Not to add fuel to the fire but Jarvis Landry was available as well. He's the one I really wanted but I completely agree on Robinson as well.
Pipes
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
McCarthy has his weaknesses for sure as you outlined. Mostly stubbornness in terms of hiring and firing assistants, sticking with plays that don't work..etc.
Ted was fantastic when he got to Green Bay because he made the ultimate BPA move in selecting Rodgers over Roddy White for instance. Quarterback was obviously not a need.
But since 2009 or so he's been selecting for need (much like Mike Sherman before him).
You talk about ex-packers playing for other teams. Davin House is z great example. They let House and Tramon Williams walk away. Then piss their first rounder away on an inferior player in Randall. Then compound that issue with Rollins. So now we have youngsters who may or may not be even adequate replacing veterans who are at least adequate. How'd that workout? Ask Larry Fitgerald and Stefan Diggs.
You keep House and Tramon and all of a sudden you are looking at selecting a guy like Stephone Anthony or Kendricks or even Maxx Williams. All positions are I play because you don't have a gaping hole at corner. Now maybe Randall was truly the BPA and by a wide margin....but somehow I doubt it. Because he sucks.
Let's not lose sight of the fact that the defense is playing amazing. As good as Bradford played the Viks still only had 17 points, despite giving up great field position and losing the turnover battle. The defense also came up with the critical stop in the JAX game despite the 100+ degree heat all game (and only allowed 23 points total with almost no rushing yards). Basically the D is playing at an elite level. If the opponent only scores 17 points the packers should be winning every game.
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
C.J. Spiller in for a visit today. Close to fulfilling the prophecy of my 2010 SP mock draft pick?? Except the part where he's good.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Check over the last 5 years. Not sure what the metrics are, but if you have access to data, I'd love to see it. Would be very interesting to see him alongside Belichick, Elway, and Newsome.
hauser42
Footballguy
The issue with keeping Williams was money. Do you really think he is worth the 7 million he got on free agency with the age he is at?
House is younger and I could have seen keeping him but he wanted big money and got that.
Your view of Randall would mean that House, Williams , Heyward and others also sucked due to their play in first two years. The Fitzgerald play was a miscue that happens in heat of the moment, not sure that any those other guys help the issue. When Packers played Arizona year before the Super Bowl Williams was part of the problem in not solving the stacking of Cardinal WRs.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
The question isn't whether he was as or wasn't worth the 7M. The Packers had plenty of money to pay him. His contract was 6.5M in 2015. They had over 9M in space.
Davon House was roughly the same (6M). Had they chosen to do so, they could have kept one or both of them. Even one would have alleviated the need to reach for a CB.
Also you are comparing a rookie Randall (bleck!) to veterans in House and Williams. They probably don't #### the bed vs. Fitz and they sure as hell don't play like they want to keep their jersey clean for the Thanksgiving (Favre/Starr) game. Seriously, if you have the means, watch Randall's body language last week. Every time he gets beat, he jumps up and starts looking around as if it was somebody else's fault. Maybe not every time but he did it more than once.
Further, neither House nor Williams (as rookies House was a 4th rounder and Williams was Undrafted) had the opportunity cost of Randall. I think 4 of the next 5 players taken after Randall were All-Rookie team members. Ted wasn't passing on good prospects to take them. He was throwing darts and happened to hit them.
Ted needs to get back to BPA. I hope he did this season with Clark. I'm encouraged that 4 defensive linemen went off the board within 6 picks after Clark. That tells us that Ted had others close and got the guy he wanted. He got his guy. But he really needs to do better.
Davon House was roughly the same (6M). Had they chosen to do so, they could have kept one or both of them. Even one would have alleviated the need to reach for a CB.
Also you are comparing a rookie Randall (bleck!) to veterans in House and Williams. They probably don't #### the bed vs. Fitz and they sure as hell don't play like they want to keep their jersey clean for the Thanksgiving (Favre/Starr) game. Seriously, if you have the means, watch Randall's body language last week. Every time he gets beat, he jumps up and starts looking around as if it was somebody else's fault. Maybe not every time but he did it more than once.
Further, neither House nor Williams (as rookies House was a 4th rounder and Williams was Undrafted) had the opportunity cost of Randall. I think 4 of the next 5 players taken after Randall were All-Rookie team members. Ted wasn't passing on good prospects to take them. He was throwing darts and happened to hit them.
Ted needs to get back to BPA. I hope he did this season with Clark. I'm encouraged that 4 defensive linemen went off the board within 6 picks after Clark. That tells us that Ted had others close and got the guy he wanted. He got his guy. But he really needs to do better.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Watch what I mean about Randall's body language.
:42 he gets torched. Sits up and looks at the safety.
:50 Randall just lets Diggs run down the field. Never touches him, let's somebody else tackle him. This is how he played on Thanksgiving. Gutless.
1:02 Diggs scores the touchdown over (guess who?) Randall. Randall was manned up, and what does he do? He rolls over, gestures WTF? and sulks again. IT WAS YOUR GUY DUMB ###! He also held Diggs on the play which didn't get called, but even committing a penalty didn't have a prayer.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000705550/Stefon-Diggs-highlights-Every-catch-from-Week-2
:42 he gets torched. Sits up and looks at the safety.
:50 Randall just lets Diggs run down the field. Never touches him, let's somebody else tackle him. This is how he played on Thanksgiving. Gutless.
1:02 Diggs scores the touchdown over (guess who?) Randall. Randall was manned up, and what does he do? He rolls over, gestures WTF? and sulks again. IT WAS YOUR GUY DUMB ###! He also held Diggs on the play which didn't get called, but even committing a penalty didn't have a prayer.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000705550/Stefon-Diggs-highlights-Every-catch-from-Week-2
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Pipes
Footballguy
All this means is Randall isn't ready to be CB 1 yet. Most young DBS aren't. Randall was put in a tough spot Sunday night and didn't play well but he's been adequate in the rest of the games he's played.Sabertooth said:
Where's your analysis of Randall from week 1 where not only was he solid, he helped make a game saving critical 4th down stop.
Trae Waynes was picked 18 spots ahead of Randall yet looked just as bad as Randall did with really the only difference being is Bradford didn't throw one in Randall's lap like Rodgers did to Waynes. Show some patience Randall isn't as bad as you think.
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The last graph I looked at evaluated draft performance only by GMs. I'll try to find it. It was basically Ted Thompson on one end absurdly higher than everyone else. There's more to being a GM than drafting, though, but you can't really argue with a lot of his moves. You guys are forgetting about a lot of players he let walk that rightfully were either not worth the money or on the downside of their careers (Greg Jennings, Diedrich-Smith, Woodson, Driver, James Jones... I mean the list just goes on forever). I can't think of one guy he let go that ended up in the pro bowl on another team. And you also can't say he doesn't spend in free agency; he made one of the biggest deals of the year signing Peppers and that was 100% worth the money at the time... dude was a beast last year. Cook was an expensive signing for a tight end and I think he's going to pay dividends this year.
What is this Elway garbage? He's only been the GM since 2014 and the last three drafts haven't exactly been fantastic. Demaryius and Von Miller were already there when he arrived as an executive (non-GM) in 2011. That team accumulated a ton of talent because of their crappy play for years. I'm looking through Elway's draft history since 2014 and I'm not exactly seeing world-beaters. Cody Latimer? Montee Ball? Those were both 2nd round picks. At least Davante is still contributing as a 2nd round pick. Malik Jackson was a great pick in the 5th round but that was before he took the GM title.
Reminds me of how Jim Harbaugh got all that credit for taking the 49ers to the Super Bowl. That was such garbage. That team had accumulated soooo much talent from drafting high for so many years (there were like 4 all-pros on the offensive/defensive fronts, Gore, crabtree, they had an elite safety). The worst coach in the NFL could have made that run. Not convinced at all Elway isn't doing the same thing. If the Broncos are relevant 5 years from now (like the Packers have been for a decade) then we can talk about Elway as a great GM.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Well it's hard to say. Can home improve? Yes obviously he can. Will he? Who knows. Is he good enough for now? No. His problems lie between his ears and inside his rib cage. I hope he can solve them.
He he made a great play on 4th down vs the Jags. What a weird play call that was by them.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I'd like to see McCarthy and Ha Ha have a great game today. Maybe Rodgers too. 
Sabertooth
Footballguy
No Ansah or Levy for Detroit today. No reason not to hang some serious points on them.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Great win. Despite HWY 23's efforts to give it away. Is that two personal bests in a row against Randall? Bench him already, Mike.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
He wasn't on him for the one where he fell down either.... HEY-O!
Seriously was glad to see Nick Perry rise up in this one. Packers D looks legit outside of Randall. Leroy Butler even threw the pads back on and made some plays. Was a great win, but Mike took his foot off the gas just like he did against Seattle. Except this was Detroit so they couldn't capitalize.
Offense was much better than the first two weeks. Rush defense is legit, too bad it's a passing league now. The pass rush looked good though, whole DL played well.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Even if they show you, you'll just deny it anyway.
sho nuff
Footballguy
No, look atvthe game thread, i explained it showing the actual plays.
The only questionable or conservative call was in the last drive when Lacy got carries on first and second down.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
You are right. Now tell me I'm right about Randall, please. How much evidence do you need?
sho nuff
Footballguy
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Ok, can you at least acknowledge that he's not starting material thus far in his career?
sho nuff
Footballguy
I acknowledge that he played his worst games by far the last two weeks and should be on the bench when Shields comes back.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
One can claim McCarthy went conservative all they want but they had a big lead, Lacy was running the ball very effectively, the clock was ticking away, and they needed to control the time of possession in the second half in order to protect a defense decimated by injury and down to 3rd stringers or rookies at that point.
sho nuff
Footballguy
As i said in the game thread...i agree. Lacy was ripping off nice runs. And it wasnt as if they stopped looking downfield. The Rodgers scrambles were some where they were looking to throw it longer. And one of them of them in a 3rd and 20 hole with the Bulaga hold.
Drops by the rookie and Cobb hurt other drives too.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
6 players on defense saw their first NFL action this week. 9 first year players all together played on the defense today.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
And they played mostly pretty well. The defense looks rejuvenated to me. I hope Perry can have another dominant performance and build on this one. He looked like a first rounder today. If he can stay at a high level when Matthews comes back, this defense could be scary.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
I also think that once they get healthier in the defensive backfield your favorite Randall won't be out there.
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
Perry had an eventful game. I won't say great, due to being in position and missing some tackles, plus the dumb penalty but at least he is showing more than expected.
Randall, with over a year of coaching after converting from safety, still doesn't look like he has learned CB responsibilities/techniques. With Shields out, he is going to get picked on a lot. I don't want to imagine him trying to cover ODB in two weeks.
Lacy looked great. I think Richard Rodgers is also in much better shape this year though I haven't heard anyone mention it. He is still the #1 TE, Cook has proven nothing (and now may be injured).
Schum going Air Jordan for a bad snap averted potential disaster.
Lions still looking poorly coached regardless of how many injuries they have.
Randall, with over a year of coaching after converting from safety, still doesn't look like he has learned CB responsibilities/techniques. With Shields out, he is going to get picked on a lot. I don't want to imagine him trying to cover ODB in two weeks.
Lacy looked great. I think Richard Rodgers is also in much better shape this year though I haven't heard anyone mention it. He is still the #1 TE, Cook has proven nothing (and now may be injured).
Schum going Air Jordan for a bad snap averted potential disaster.
Lions still looking poorly coached regardless of how many injuries they have.
Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
This wasn't just a one game thing. He's been looking good since the playoffs last year. I believe he has turned the corner with this health. That was and will remain the key with him. He's been a stud so far.Sabertooth said:
I'm glad they were patient with Perry while he figured things out.
