Sabertooth
Footballguy
Early guesses on the line against Washington? I bet the Packers are 5 point dogs at least...against the Redskins. Wow.
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2016 Green Bay Packers thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter sho nuff
- Start date
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I'm sick of hearing about the injuries. And it's always something like "Well, we had a few guys go down but that's no excuse, we need to play better."
If it isn't an excuse, why are you using it as an excuse? The reporter didn't bring up injuries, coach...you did. Quick being a little ##### about it.
That'd be like me saying to my wife "Well, the other woman was hot as ####, but that's no excuse honey...I need to keep my #### in my pants. I'll work on that."
If it isn't an excuse, why are you using it as an excuse? The reporter didn't bring up injuries, coach...you did. Quick being a little ##### about it.
That'd be like me saying to my wife "Well, the other woman was hot as ####, but that's no excuse honey...I need to keep my #### in my pants. I'll work on that."
Mario Kart
Footballguy
Make Green Bay Great Again... get rid of Thompson and McCarthy if that is what it takes. The establishment has become complacent with mediocre expectations. No hustle, no bustle, just blah.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
It is. Think about where Green Bay was in 2014. And think about where Washington and Oakland were. Now Green Bay is looking up at those two, who basically started at Ground zero. So in three years they've built from nothing whereas Green Bay had one of the youngest teams in the league and now they are garbage. They should be a ####### powerhouse right now. But they piss away picks on players, whine about injuries, and just have zero urgency.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Its not why they are average/mediicre...but it is why they are bad.
The sacks late came with Bahktiari out of there. Rollins was only used some...so yiu have 4th and 5th string corners...and 3 starters on the oline out yesterday...and lost the starting mlb before play even started.
To not acknowledge injuries would be foolish
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I don't think it matters much. They aren't very good. They don't have to throw games to lose them. They are doing just fine at losing.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Everybody is injured at this point. It's not like the Titans and Colts are trotting out their optimum 22 starters.
I can acknowledge the Packers have injuries. But so does everybody else.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Every team is without 3 starters on the OL, #1 RB, #1 and 2 CB, 3rd cb limited snaps , an all pro like OLB, best MLB?
8 of 22 starters?
Again...this isnt why they are averageish...but its a big reason why they are just bad right now.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Exactly. This team isn't good. People act like having Rollins and HWY23 at corner would change something. Those players are not good. Heck the Packers have let go of three corners in the last two seasons who are better than their starters by a good margin.
Clay is good. Clay is not Von Miller good.
The lineman are decent. But the funny thing is, they look way better than they are because they are using 5 to block 3 or 4 rushers.
Rodgers has always hidden this teams weaknesses (Favre too before him). Now that teams have largely figured out Rodgers (let him run around and cover with 8 guys), he can't do it anymore and there simply isn't any talent anywhere else to take up the slack.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Ok for one thing, their nominal starting corners are weak to begin with. Not a noticeable upgrade over the backups. So it's more like 6 of 22.
Clay is great. They miss him because he's the only true talent on D.
Everybody has OL issues. Didn't I just hear last week that the Colts have lost a bunch of lineman?
Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
The tone of this game was set very, very early. Go back and watch the Murray 75 yard TD. I had to look three times. Clinton-Dix is sprinting in all out pursuit. However, the guy with the angle, Rollins, just flat out quit on the play. At about the five yard line, Rollins is within one yard of Murray. Does he dive at his legs, try to get him down? Nope. Just pulls up and watches him walk into the end zone.
Big plays can happen. But this was straight up lack of effort and desire. Honestly, it set the tone. They looked flat and like they didn't want to be there for the second week in a row.
I've been a McCarthy supporter. However, it appears it's time for him to go. I can handle losses with effort. We haven't seen that in two weeks.
Big plays can happen. But this was straight up lack of effort and desire. Honestly, it set the tone. They looked flat and like they didn't want to be there for the second week in a row.
I've been a McCarthy supporter. However, it appears it's time for him to go. I can handle losses with effort. We haven't seen that in two weeks.
whatSabertooth said:
I think most people agreed at the start of the season that if all the CBs were healthy, Green Bay had a top 3 secondary unit. Vic said it might be the best overall. The problem is they were top heavy and when you lose the top 2-3 it's just a disaster. Shields has done excellent work playing solo against the top WRs in the game. His absence is similar to the Panthers losing Norman at the start of the season; how'd that turn out? They got crushed by big plays the first half of the season.
Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
I disagree at Corner. Sham Shields is one of the better cover corners in the league, and he is missed. However, I think his career is over. That said, Randall and Rollins have both struggled this season.Sabertooth said:
Their pass rush has been non-existent without Matthews.
I thought the O line held up OK all things considered. That seemed to be the least of the problems yesterday, considering everything that happened, even with the injuries.
Yea, but the problem is who is injured. 8/22 random starters may not be crushing to most teams .... but when most of those 8 are high-salary cap, critical impact players (best pass corner, best pass rusher, pro-bowl RB), it's a disaster.Sabertooth said:
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Well, they were wrong. Randall is garbage. Rollins is nickel material at best. Ted let three corners walk within the past two seasons. Any of these would be our best corner now. Shields got hurt. It sucks but he's done. Now we have nothing.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Yeah I wasn't taking Shields into account. I guess I've already mentally moved past him. I think his career is over. What we've got left after him is a joke at corner. I believe the safeties are good enough.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Yeah that's a good point. The real problem might just be huge contracts that aren't on the field. Shields is done. Matthews hurt a lot, Peppers is a part timer. Lacy isn't a pro bowl running back anymore.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Bottom line. When you build your team through the draft alone.....you better be the best damn drafter there is. Ted used to be. He isn't anymore. He's average now. And when you tie one hand behind your back, you better be damn good with the other.
sho nuff
Footballguy
We know your opinion on Randall...but Shields is not weak. And even Randall is an upgrade over Brice and Gunter being forced out there. So no...its not like 6 out of 22.Sabertooth said:
To call Clay to only true talent on D shows you really just want to complain. If you don't see talent elsewhere at all, you have a bad eye for talent.
Everyone has 3 starters out now? I mean...they lost Lang and Bahktiaria in this game...and then pressure started getting there quick. Do you think that is a coincidence?
sho nuff
Footballguy
I had a great angle of that...Murray slowed up but there was no way Rollins was ever getting there.
As for your last line...same here. Time for a change.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
Yes...now play the 4th and 5th guys (most of the game as Rollins played limited snaps)...and do it with no pass rush without Clay right now and this is what happens.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
You can only use injury excuses for so long. After almost two seasons of ####, this team just is what it is. A .500 ball club that is heading towards the wrong way. Last year, I think they could use it. But you can't use injuries for 20+ straight games of mediocre football. That's not an anomaly. That's reality.
Warhogs
Footballguy
It's looking like a miserable season and the injuries haven't helped but I sure hope they don't use the injuries as an excuse for the season and go with the same approach of being inactive in free agency. The formula was successful for a short period but isn't working and the key pieces are aging. Sometimes you need to recognize you are a good team with good players in their prime and go out and add talent around them. If they stay with the same approach of drafting and the cheap free agents I think things get worse before they get better. And by worse, I'm talking a sub .500 team.
I think you guys are all making this too complicated. Nothing all of a sudden changed after 9 games; Ted is still one of the best drafters in NFL history and McCarthy is still a very good coach. They're losing because some draft players haven't played up to their selection (which happens to the best drafters) and because a ton of playing time has been missed by our best players. It happens.
Sometimes the worst drafters get very lucky and the best drafters get unlucky. Look at Jerry Jones... arguably among the worst 5 GMs over the last decade, giving out terrible contracts and making horrible picks. Their cap space next year is utterly disastrous (look at overthecap; they have the worst situation in 2017). Then he somehow hits on a bunch of OL picks, a miracle 3rd-rounder franchise QB selection, and has the #4 pick fall in his lap to take a generational RB. Is Jerry Jones a genius? No. No he is not. He got lucky. It happens.
Sometimes the worst drafters get very lucky and the best drafters get unlucky. Look at Jerry Jones... arguably among the worst 5 GMs over the last decade, giving out terrible contracts and making horrible picks. Their cap space next year is utterly disastrous (look at overthecap; they have the worst situation in 2017). Then he somehow hits on a bunch of OL picks, a miracle 3rd-rounder franchise QB selection, and has the #4 pick fall in his lap to take a generational RB. Is Jerry Jones a genius? No. No he is not. He got lucky. It happens.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Yeah I think that's exactly what we are. A sub .500 team. Ted and Mike simply peaked in 2010.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
It's been 20 games. At some point you are what you are. It's weird, Ted was great because Aaron fell in his lap. But Jerry is lucky to land Prescott and Zeke.
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There are also 31 other NFL franchises. Give some credit to other teams. Green Bay can't always be the winner.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Most of those teams were much much worse than Green Bay going into the 2010 season. Most are now better.
Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
Big picture, this hit me hard today after watching that performance:
" They’re 9-12 in the last 21 games and, much like the Titans of the past, scaring no one. "
http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/mcginn/2016/11/13/mcginn-packers-season-brink/93674808/
That is a bad record over the last two seasons. I was optimistic they'd bounce back this season, the offense back on track. Not so sure at this point they have a way to turn this around.
" They’re 9-12 in the last 21 games and, much like the Titans of the past, scaring no one. "
http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/mcginn/2016/11/13/mcginn-packers-season-brink/93674808/
That is a bad record over the last two seasons. I was optimistic they'd bounce back this season, the offense back on track. Not so sure at this point they have a way to turn this around.
Warhogs
Footballguy
I think this season is ugly. My silver lining is an earlier pick in what is supposed to be a good draft class and hopefully a lesson learned that you have to at least make an effort to add talent in free agency and they will become more active trying to use all avenues to build a strong team. I'm not very hopeful for 2016. At best, they battle for a playoff spot but can they really do anything in the playoffs? Maybe they are better off continuing to stumble? I do think guys like Davante Adams and Ty Montgomery have shown improvement to help down the road.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I agree. I think we all thought we were seeing a mirage when they began taking on water. But it turns out they just aren't that good anymore.
ETA: The first paragraph cracks me up....the day the defense died would have been when they made Marvin Jones look like Marvin Harrison. Also how can a third straight loss be the beginning of the end? That would be the Atlanta game wouldn't it?
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
You'd think after 10+ seasons Mike would be able to teach his team fundamentals. He keeps saying they lack it every loss.
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
I want to go back to the days when I was only worried about sports sucking.
Pipes
Footballguy
Agreed but it's the apparently lack of effort and ho hum attitude is what's troubling. If they were flying to the ball on defense and just missing a play here or there on offense and losing it would be easier to swallow then getting boat raced by the team that had the #1 overall pick in the draft earlier in the year.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I do not understand the fascination with Free Agency. More often than not teams which resort to it pay a heavy price. The hit rate there has to be below even the hit rate on drafting.
Warhogs
Footballguy
I wouldn't call it a fascination but plenty of teams do well with free agents and when teams in your division are being active and getting better and you sit on your hands you are losing ground. Linval Joseph has been a key to the Vikings DL. He was a free agent. Marvin Jones filled a big hole at WR for Detroit and he has been doing well. I don't advocate being a huge player in free agency if you are a poor team but if you are supposed to be one of the better teams in your conference as the Packers were predicted to be you sometimes need to forget your build through the draft ideals and add a key player or two. Sadly, as poor as Green Bay looks now the may have fallen out of that type of team and you have a lot of key players getting old that just may not be around long enough to add anything to another playoff run.
Edit to add: Actually I believe for Detroit both Golden Tate and Marvin Jones were added during free agency. My point being you can't be afraid to use free agency as well as the draft in building your team. By ignoring free agency you are putting your team at a disadvantage.
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Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
Get there or not, he was exactly one yard from him at about the 4 yard line. Make an effort. Sell out, maybe you get a piece of him. The team is begging for a spark, and Rollins half assed it.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Nobody is using the injuries as an excuse other than to say thats why this year went from mediocre to bad.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I think this is a .500 team even when healthy. Just not that many players who are above average. Coaching is stale. Just a poor product this year and last.
sho nuff
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
The record suggests otherwise.
sho nuff
Footballguy
The recod does not suggest its a 500 team when healthy . ..nor that there arent many players that are above average . not at all
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
So you are for successful fee agent transactions. Me too. Reggie, Dotson a few others. The thing is to consider not just the successes, but the failures which have hamstrung franchises. The Albert Haynesworths, Ndamokong Suh, Mario Williams, Joey Galloway situations which seem far more prevalent than the good situations.
When times get desperate folks want to see action. They can see free agency moves. patience, well that is also action or a sort but it is more difficult to see. Anyhow, I am with you in wanting things to improve. that puts us in the same boat as fans of the 31 teams who did not win it all last year.
