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2016 Oakland Raiders thread (1 Viewer)

And Norman was a 5th round draft pick! Hopefully Reggie, JDR and the scouting dept will find us a diamond in the rough next week.

 
Paul Gutierrez
ESPN Staff Writer 

The Raiders will remain in Florida the week between games at Jacksonville and Tampa Bay this fall, practicing there rather than making consecutive cross-country trips on back-to-back weekends, Raiders owner Mark Davis said Sunday evening. Oakland plays at the Jaguars on Oct. 23 and at the Buccaneers on Oct. 30. The Raiders had requested the back-back games when it saw the list of opponents for 2016 and the league's schedule makers obliged.

 
I must've read that wrong. 

It said the Raiders made a scheduling request and the league obliged. 

The league oblige the Raiders!?!?

what's next? Dogs and cats living together? Will this miraculous off season never end?

;)

 
massraider said:
Soooo......Myles Jack.  We need to be thinking about this guy?

And Bosa as well.  Rumblings on Twitter that he may slip.
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Myles- same as Jaylon, you let your doctors do their thing and trust their advice and go from there. If they :shrug: then you pass with your 1st.

Bosa may be interesting if he slips though. What is the big knock on him anyways?

 
Chadstroma said:
Myles- same as Jaylon, you let your doctors do their thing and trust their advice and go from there. If they :shrug: then you pass with your 1st.

Bosa may be interesting if he slips though. What is the big knock on him anyways?
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Well, word is Bosa refused a drug test before week 1 this year, that's why he was suspended for the game.  

Also the idea that he's not a speed rusher off the edge, he's a power guy, and may not have the upside of other players.  

 
massraider said:
Well, word is Bosa refused a drug test before week 1 this year, that's why he was suspended for the game.  

Also the idea that he's not a speed rusher off the edge, he's a power guy, and may not have the upside of other players.  
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I am all for BPA so if he is BPA then let's get that ticket in for him. Though, I would be interested to see how we would play him in the lineup. I suppose you could have Mario/Bosa (assuming Mario is healthy) and then one of them takes a seat when Mack takes some snaps at DE. Or I guess you could kick Mario into DT for passing downs with Boas and Mack on the ends.

 
Bosa would certainly be BPA but I can't see him dropping that far.  Best comp is Jared Allen but with better hands/power against the run.  Not a speed guy per se but adequate quickness and superb hands and angles help him play faster.  My biggest concern is a seeming lack of rush discipline.  He overran lanes a bajillion times and lost contain or saw draw/counters hit big gashes behind him.  That may have been a scheme thing where the LB's couldn't fill, but it may be something he needs to reign in.  I strongly suspect it's a discipline thing but don't want to crush him in case he was being cut loose.  Can't imagine he's there, would surprise me more than seeing EZE would.

 
Hankmoody said:
Bosa would certainly be BPA but I can't see him dropping that far.  Best comp is Jared Allen but with better hands/power against the run.  Not a speed guy per se but adequate quickness and superb hands and angles help him play faster.  My biggest concern is a seeming lack of rush discipline.  He overran lanes a bajillion times and lost contain or saw draw/counters hit big gashes behind him.  That may have been a scheme thing where the LB's couldn't fill, but it may be something he needs to reign in.  I strongly suspect it's a discipline thing but don't want to crush him in case he was being cut loose.  Can't imagine he's there, would surprise me more than seeing EZE would.
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No, I would LOVE Ezek to fall to us. But it is hard to see that happening. The only player I would have on my board higher than Ezek would be Ramsey and that will not happen. But with Ezek:

3. San Diego Chargers- unlikely
4. Dallas Cowboys- highly likely 
5. Jacksonville Jaguars- possible
6. Baltimore Ravens- possible
7. San Francisco 49ers- doubtful
8. Cleveland Browns- possible
9. Tampa Bay Buccaneers- unlikely
10. New York Giants- highly likely
11. Chicago Bears- highly likely
12. New Orleans Saints- doubtful
13. Miami Dolphins- highly likely

It is hard to see Ezek going pass Dallas, Giants, Bears and Dolphins on top of the other teams that could surprise or trade with someone moving up to grab him.

Bosa.... well, I didn't expect him to be at 14 either but if teams are getting spooked for some reason then you never know. I haven't heard one 'bad' thing about Ezek. I think if he was in any other position other than K or P then he would be sure fire top 5 without any doubts. The only thing hurting his draft value is how badly RB's have been devalued over the last few years in the NFL.

 
massraider said:
I have a list of 10 guys that I cannot imagine being at our pick.  At least two of them will be there.  
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My top 5 BPA from limited actual watching and just collecting write ups from others. It looks like Smith and Jack will be there but that is not a BPA discussion, that is a medical discussion.

  1. Tunsil
  2. Jaylon Smith (Doctor decision)
  3. Ramsey
  4. Jack (Doctor decision)
  5. Elliott
After that the waters get muddy for me as I just haven't put the time in.

 
Jerry McDonald ‏@Jerrymcd 2h2 hours agoInteresting. In this @JennyVrentas story, Fla. St. PK Roberto Aguayo works out for Raiders ST coach Brad Seely. Hmm‘The Kicker’ Finishes A Father’s Journeyby Jenny Vrentas

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/04/21/roberto-aguayo-florida-state-nfl-draft

"A second rule change for 2016 might add even more value. The day the NFL voted to move touchbacks from the 20 to the 25-yard line, Aguayo was working out privately for the Raiders. Special teams coordinator Brad Seely promptly asked Aguayo to show him high hang-time kickoffs aimed within a yard or two of the goal line. Some teams may try to adopt a strategy of trying to pin a returner deep instead of going for the touchback, something that Aguayo says Florida State coach Jimbo Fisher asked him to do on about 70 percent of his kickoffs."

 
Apologies in advance for my typical long post. I'm verbose, what can I do?

We all know things get crazy on draft day, and unexpected things happen. We ascribe needs to teams when their internal boards are actually quite different. Paxton Lynch could jump way up, forcing quality guys down. All good things for us, here are my own thoughts on what I wish would happen, and what likely will:

Guys I would love to have a shot at but think there is just no way that they fall:

DeForest Buckner, Vernon Hargreaves, Joey Bosa, Ronnie Stanley, Ezekiel Elliott -- actually have seen mocks where these guys fall past 10. These are also mocks that have the Giants reaching for a WR, or the Browns screwing up as usual. Either way, would snap up any of these guys, but thinking they will somehow miraculously drop is a pipe dream. I include Eze here too, as though he's the most liable to fall somewhere near us, I just think what he brings to the table is too valuable to too many teams that he slips that far. Just trying to be realistic.

Guys who just might eke past others to 14, but provide really tough choices:

Myles Jack, Sheldon Rankins, Ronnie Stanley, Leonard Floyd -- all fit positions of need. Would be really hard to pass Jack here, but as others have stated, do you take a chance on upside vs an injury that may come back to haunt him later, even with medical clearance? As to the other three, if two are available by any chance, makes for a hard choice as to which would be BPA and also fill up an area of need. We could use more depth and youthful talent at either LB, OT, and DT.

Guys who I think are most likely going to be there for us, and who we should consider:

William Jackson III, Jack Conklin, Shaq Lawson, A'Shawn Robinson, Darron Lee, Reggie Ragland -- not as big of a scout as others on this thread, who likely know the upsides and downsides of these players much better than I. Of these, I think Jackson and Ragland make the most sense in terms of BPA and position of need for us, but can also see us looking at Lee for help on the outside instead of Ragland who will help more on the inside. I see some holes in both Ragland (not able to hang with speedy TEs and RBs in pass coverage) and Lee (has speed but may not be as good vs the run), so I think Jackson is our guy if he's there, IMHO.

Guys who I think are most likely going to be there for us, and who I pray we avoid:

Robert Nkemdiche, Eli Apple, Jaylon Smith, Keanu Neal, Vonn Bell -- all of these guys scare me. Nkemdiche has bust written on him. either for lack of consistency in the flashes of his talent, or for his off-field shenanigans. Eli Apple will add value in the NFL, but I think he's overrated and doesn't deserve to be considered this early in the first. Smith is too risky, as most here agree with. With Neal and Bell, just worry that our pursuit of a safety will have us looking at the best safety on the board -- and taking him way too early when we could potentially sit and wait for Karl Joseph (who may slip given his non-ideal size -- maybe thinking Joseph will drop is a pipe dream as well).

 
krsone21 said:
Jerry McDonald ‏@Jerrymcd 2h2 hours agoInteresting. In this @JennyVrentas story, Fla. St. PK Roberto Aguayo works out for Raiders ST coach Brad Seely. Hmm‘The Kicker’ Finishes A Father’s Journeyby Jenny Vrentas

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/04/21/roberto-aguayo-florida-state-nfl-draft

"A second rule change for 2016 might add even more value. The day the NFL voted to move touchbacks from the 20 to the 25-yard line, Aguayo was working out privately for the Raiders. Special teams coordinator Brad Seely promptly asked Aguayo to show him high hang-time kickoffs aimed within a yard or two of the goal line. Some teams may try to adopt a strategy of trying to pin a returner deep instead of going for the touchback, something that Aguayo says Florida State coach Jimbo Fisher asked him to do on about 70 percent of his kickoffs."
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Awesome read, thanks for posting, krsone21 -- made me think more about my own valuation of this guy despite my views on drafting kickers high. Really cool read about the backstory on him and his dad, and will be rooting for him on draft day.

 
Darron Lee is terrific against the run.  He's not the biggest my physical stuffer yet, but he was a 190 lb QB 3 years ago so he's still putting his body together and learning how to use it.  He's blazing fast, he takes good angles, and he does a decent job of taking on blockers directly and as he gets experience that will improve.  Lavonte David type but already quite a bit bigger.  I loved loved loved David coming out of Nebraska and love Lee as the same guy.  He gets a lot of scouting love as a pass rusher, not sure I see that but if the scouts do that's even better.  He can definitely turn and run with TE's and RB's though so he's a 3 down LB regardless.  I have him miles ahead of Ragland, who I like for what he is.  He's just not Darron Lee.

Of your list I like Lee, Rankins, Lawson, Jackson, Conklin in that order.  Stanley's a pipe dream to still be there and we should snap accept that, and if Jack is there it's because of his knee so I would guess we have to pass and let someone else take the risk.

God I'm so ready for Thursday.

 
Anybody have thoughts/targets about who we might go after as complete fliers in the 7th round? 

Admit to have given it zero thought, nor do I really know much about guys projected in the first round or two, but heard an interesting interview on Sirius with Dan Vitale, Northwestern's "superback" -- plays at FB, HB, TE, a kind of jack of all trades. Good story, good kid eager to get to the next level doing whatever it takes. Looking at some highlights of his receptions, has some pretty good hands and terrific field awareness, and can make catches in traffic (though I doubt he gets true separation against NFL calibre d-backs).

Also looked at the run blocking highlights I could find -- nothing jaw dropping (and even some whiffs), though he seems to seal edges well when used as a traditional TE blocker on or moving across the line. May have trouble in traditional pass blocking, but could be useful on third down and short plays.

The kicker comments in this thread had me thinking about older guys on our roster like Janikowski who we could replace to free up more cap space down the line. Looking at Vitale's stats, they are a little similar to Marcel Reece (6'2/240 vs 6'1/250, respectively). Vitale doesn't seem to have anywhere near Reece's speed or (that I've found) evidence he could handle pure run plays or be an effective pure FB, but he's the same kind of athlete with similar versatility that could likely handle some of the 3rd down plays already in the book designed for Reece.

Anyway, just got me thinking about what other players people are keeping eyes on as late round wish list fliers.

 
Cookiemonster said:
I'll be surprised if he makes it past the Ravens' 2nd round pick.  If I'm the Steelers, I take him at 1.25 with a big, confident smile on my face.
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Given that his stock keeps rising, you are probably right that he won't make it out of the 1st. But if you think he can slip to the Ravens at 2.5 (36th overall), is it totally hopeless to pray he falls just another 8 spots to 2.13 (44th overall)?

Yeah probably.  :kicksrock:

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Anybody have thoughts/targets about who we might go after as complete fliers in the 7th round? 

Admit to have given it zero thought, nor do I really know much about guys projected in the first round or two, but heard an interesting interview on Sirius with Dan Vitale, Northwestern's "superback" -- plays at FB, HB, TE, a kind of jack of all trades. Good story, good kid eager to get to the next level doing whatever it takes. Looking at some highlights of his receptions, has some pretty good hands and terrific field awareness, and can make catches in traffic (though I doubt he gets true separation against NFL calibre d-backs).

Also looked at the run blocking highlights I could find -- nothing jaw dropping (and even some whiffs), though he seems to seal edges well when used as a traditional TE blocker on or moving across the line. May have trouble in traditional pass blocking, but could be useful on third down and short plays.

The kicker comments in this thread had me thinking about older guys on our roster like Janikowski who we could replace to free up more cap space down the line. Looking at Vitale's stats, they are a little similar to Marcel Reece (6'2/240 vs 6'1/250, respectively). Vitale doesn't seem to have anywhere near Reece's speed or (that I've found) evidence he could handle pure run plays or be an effective pure FB, but he's the same kind of athlete with similar versatility that could likely handle some of the 3rd down plays already in the book designed for Reece.

Anyway, just got me thinking about what other players people are keeping eyes on as late round wish list fliers.
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The Raiders have shown some serious interest in Siaosi Aiono. Aiono is a C/G from Utah. With the departure of Bergstrom the Raiders do need a backup center so he could be a late round option.

http://247sports.com/Bolt/Report-Raiders-like-Siaosi-Aiono-as-possible-backup-center-45008076

 
Please no Ragland. Please. Please. Please. He is the only selection I would be unhappy with but I really don't think the Raiders will go that route. We have shown that our scheme needs a MLB who can actually carry some weight in coverage. Doesn't have to be a CB or anything but needs to be able to cover. Ragland seems to be another thumper. He can plug up against the run but has very little in terms of coverage ability- perhaps to the point of being a liability. Do we really need another Lofton at MLB?

You typically can't make a MLB into an OLB but you can many times make an OLB into a MLB. If we go LB with that 1st round pick- a million times over I would prefer Lee if he is still there. Ragland may very well be a good football player but I just don't see him as a schematic fit for us. Maybe another team can use him in a scheme that doesn't ask coverage as much but I will pass thank you very much.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Given that his stock keeps rising, you are probably right that he won't make it out of the 1st. But if you think he can slip to the Ravens at 2.5 (36th overall), is it totally hopeless to pray he falls just another 8 spots to 2.13 (44th overall)?

Yeah probably.  :kicksrock:
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I would not be opposed to taking Joseph at 14.  The more I watch from this guy the more I like him.  Outside of Zeke at RB I do not think this draft has a lot of top end talent at any position.  I think Joseph has a chance to be a top notch safety. 

 
In the Shark Pool mocks, I took:

William Jackson III
Jonathan Bullard

and 

Sheldon Rankins
Keanu Neal

I like both options.  

But from a value perspective, and this is just my personal philosophy:  If all these 1st round options wind up being very good players, give me the defensive tackle than can pass rush.  Very few teams have good 3-techs, and they don't come out every year.  Good RB?  Every year.  OT?  Every year.  Even CB, there are good ones every year, and even later in the draft.  

Even though there is depth at DT, if we can get the best of what appears to be an all-time class, I have no problem taking him.  

But the chances that the team ranks players equally are slim.  

 
massraider said:
In the Shark Pool mocks, I took:

William Jackson III
Jonathan Bullard

and 

Sheldon Rankins
Keanu Neal

I like both options.  

But from a value perspective, and this is just my personal philosophy:  If all these 1st round options wind up being very good players, give me the defensive tackle than can pass rush.  Very few teams have good 3-techs, and they don't come out every year.  Good RB?  Every year.  OT?  Every year.  Even CB, there are good ones every year, and even later in the draft.  

Even though there is depth at DT, if we can get the best of what appears to be an all-time class, I have no problem taking him.  

But the chances that the team ranks players equally are slim.  
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Taking actual players out and talking position with talent being 'equal'. I agree in general that I would prefer to have an elite DT over an elite CB- even more so now. We are building a team that certainly can rush the edge. Mack, Aldon and Irvin as well as Mario. That is good pressure there on a QB and teams will have to scheme for it. Shift the line to the outside, lot's of chips and help from TE's and RB's. Now, add in an elite DT and it really causes problems in how you plan your offense to match up to our defense. What are you going to do? If you put all your attention on the outside then you are going to have your QB rocked with the pocket collapses around him and he can't buy extra time by stepping up into a pocket if the pocket doesn't exist.

Now, if you add an elite CB then you can buy yourself some extra time to allow those edge rushers to get there but the better QB's will take the scheme helping buy them time, step up on the pocket and then find someone else open.

Is Rankins elite? I don't know. If he is- then I want him. I focus more on Ezek as my dream because I know he is elite. I just haven't put in the time and effort to form educated opinions on guys like Rankins or any other DT.

 
Chadstroma said:
Please no Ragland. Please. Please. Please. He is the only selection I would be unhappy with but I really don't think the Raiders will go that route. We have shown that our scheme needs a MLB who can actually carry some weight in coverage. Doesn't have to be a CB or anything but needs to be able to cover. Ragland seems to be another thumper. He can plug up against the run but has very little in terms of coverage ability- perhaps to the point of being a liability. Do we really need another Lofton at MLB?

You typically can't make a MLB into an OLB but you can many times make an OLB into a MLB. If we go LB with that 1st round pick- a million times over I would prefer Lee if he is still there. Ragland may very well be a good football player but I just don't see him as a schematic fit for us. Maybe another team can use him in a scheme that doesn't ask coverage as much but I will pass thank you very much.
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Aren't we tired of seeing the Raiders getting killed in the short passing game by the likes of Jamaal Charles, Antonio Gates and every other TE that can get down the field? Remember last year, the first 8 weeks or so of the season the defense was getting gashed by TEs. I hope they stay away from Ragland also. They need a speedy LB like Lee who can cover the Charles' and receiving TEs of the NFL. It was as big a weakness as the team had last season. And its been a weakness for over a decade. Draft Lee and fix it!

 
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I think a lot of the pundits have it wrong on Ragland and he falls, far.  When you have two DTs like Bama had, it makes a MLB look much better.  Ragland is a two down player and most teams don't want to spend a first on a two down player.  I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Ragland go 30-45.  I could see Oakland taking him, but in the 2nd.

 
Bruno2 said:
Aren't we tired of seeing the Raiders getting killed in the short passing game by the likes of Jamaal Charles, Antonio Gates and every other TE that can get down the field? Remember last year, the first 8 weeks or so of the season the defense was getting gashed by TEs. I hope they stay away from Ragland also. They need a speedy LB like Lee who can cover the Charles' and receiving TEs of the NFL. It was as big a weakness as the team had last season. And its been a weakness for over a decade. Draft Lee and fix it!
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Myles Jack?

 
Chadstroma said:
Is Rankins elite? I don't know. If he is- then I want him. I focus more on Ezek as my dream because I know he is elite. I just haven't put in the time and effort to form educated opinions on guys like Rankins or any other DT.
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Yeah, I'm not sure myself about Rankins.  Chris Jones makes sense, even Vernon Butler.  

If they love a CB tho, I'm on board with that.  

I think Elliott goes top 10.  But I wouldn't be angry with the pick.  

 
Hankmoody said:
Wow a pipe dream just a couple of weeks ago.  He's got the same knee prognosis that Ajayi got last year.  What happens to a talent like Jack?
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Reggie isn't afraid to draft  players with injury histories. Obviously Hayden had a serious injury, but Cooper has a foot ailment he's been battling since college. And there's Edwards, although I think it's safe to say no one (including Edwards himself ) knew about his neck condition. Point being, if Jack is there, my gut tells me Reggie will run that card up to the podium himself.

 
Bruno2 said:
Reggie isn't afraid to draft  players with injury histories. Obviously Hayden had a serious injury, but Cooper has a foot ailment he's been battling since college. And there's Edwards, although I think it's safe to say no one (including Edwards himself ) knew about his neck condition. Point being, if Jack is there, my gut tells me Reggie will run that card up to the podium himself.
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Absolutely no one thought that Hayden's health issue would impact him moving forward. It was a done deal.

I don't know about Cooper.

No one knew anything about Mario's issue until the injury.

Jack has an injury that could very well limit him in playing ability and/or length of his career. That is pretty big difference between the instances you brought up and Jack.

 
Would love to see Rankins fall to us. To the points above, not sure if he's going to be elite in the NFL, but seems like a concensus #1 at DT in this draft, and his initial speed sure seems to be elite. Knock against him may just be that he could be slightly undersized for an interior lineman in the NFL, and how he would fare on secondary rushes if the Oline neutralizes his initial explosion off the line.

Me, I just don't think he'll be there for us. But if he is, surely a no-brainer. Between him or Jack, would take Rankins given risk factor. 

And good thoughts on Lee. Guess I agree his skillset works better for need, and if guys like Rankins, Eze, etc. don't slip, would be happy with Lee or Jackson III.

But man, am I excited on the prospect of slippage....

 
I found this article regarding the Denver front office very, very interesting.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/did-one-broncos--discount--deal-set-stage-for-von-miller-conflict--021107007.html

When the Denver Broncos begin their offseason program on Monday, Super Bowl MVP Von Millerwon't be there. He won't be there Tuesday or later in the week. And without a new long-term deal, there's no guarantee he'll be at the team's summer minicamp or even arrive on time for training camp.

That's an indication of the financial distance between the Broncos and Miller. The two sides are not close, with a disparity believed to be in the neighborhood of $20 million total over a span of five years. That's a difference of roughly $4 million per season. Two sources familiar with the negotiation pegged Denver's offer as hovering around $18 million per season (roughly $90 million over five years). With the $4 million disparity in mind, that puts Miller's stance at around $22 million annually (roughly $110 million over five years). 




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Interestingly, the Broncos are squaring up in this negotiation in a manner that has come to define this offseason. They're drawing a financial line in the sand, a familiar tune for the franchise. Here's a list of names over the past several months that defined Denver's bottom-line approach: Derek Wolfe, Malik Jackson, Brock Osweiler, Danny Trevathan, Ryan Clady, Russell Okung and Colin Kaepernick. And now, Von Miller has joined the party.

The value of those players has been viewed through a fiscal-minded lens this offseason. Specifically, what general manager John Elway was or wasn't willing to pay for their skills. But salary-cap guru Mike Sullivan has interestingly emerged as a power broker in the roster-shaping process, too. Sullivan has been a strong voice this offseason, both in Elway's ear and at the negotiating table, multiple league sources told Yahoo Sports.

Here's where things currently stand with Miller: The Broncos feel they've put a strong and fair offer on the table for a player who isn't actually on the open market. The Broncos aren't interested in looking at Miller's value on the "open market" because he isn't on it thanks to the franchise tag. To the Broncos, they are using the tag as a tool to retain Miller for this year and potentially the next season, while paying him a fair price for his services. And in the team's estimation, Miller could be retained for the next two seasons at a total price of around $32 million. The $16 million per season for the next two years means Denver's offer of $18 million per year averages out to more for the next two years than the Broncos would be paying otherwise.

The team also sees the $18-million-per-season offer as a good deal for Miller, making him the second-highest-paid defensive player in the NFL, behind Miami's Ndamukong Suh (who has an annual average of $19.062 million). For some perspective, multiple league sources said Denver is comfortable with its offer because it puts Miller ahead of other "overpaid" annual deals signed elsewhere. Among those are Suh, New York Giants defensive end Olivier Vernon ($17 million) andKansas City Chiefs linebacker Justin Houston ($16.8 million).

That outlook isn't dovetailing with the approach Miller and his camp are taking, particularly as it pertains to pass rushers, sources said. Vernon's deal will be viewed as a market-setter by every high-end edge rusher. The price for top-shelf players who get to the quarterback, or potentially do more, went up significantly this offseason. From the viewpoint of Miller's camp, he is the most versatile elite rusher in the NFL. He's also arguably the most important piece on a defense that captured a Super Bowl for Denver.


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Those arguments have some ammunition, too. Defensive coordinator Wade Phillips used Miller in a variety of ways that triggered problems for offensive schemes in the playoffs. Miller was moved to various spots within the scheme, creating pressure from all over the field. He rushed and set the edge with regularity, lined up over center (see the havoc against the New England Patriots in the AFC title game), slid into the slot and spied Cam Newton in the Super Bowl. It's a long list of possibilities that give opponents headaches and make Miller the top defensive priority in game preparation.

That has shown in the numbers, too. In five seasons, Miller has 60 sacks (Pro Football Focus actually credits him with 71), four All-Pro nods, four Pro Bowls, a Super Bowl MVP and a defensive rookie of the year. He also played the first five years of his career under the new labor agreement, making him one of the NFL's biggest bargains at an average of slightly less than $6 million per season. And while he was suspended in 2013 for violating the NFL's rules on substance abuse, he was released from the program in 2015 after going two years without a failed test. He also has bounced back with two strong seasons after suffering an ACL injury in 2013.

All of this puts Miller in a unique spot coming out of the Super Bowl, as an elite player whose franchise tag falls well below his market value. The Broncos used the most restrictive tag possible as well – the exclusive rights tag – which allows Miller to negotiate only with Denver. Part of that decision was because the team didn't want Miller dialing in a contract offer in a free-agent environment rich with salary-cap room. But while Miller never tested the market, two high-ranking executives – one in the AFC and one in the NFC – believe he would have achieved or surpassed Suh’s per-year average. Both declined to speculate on a salary ceiling.

This puts the Broncos and Miller into difficult territory. And that's where the methodology of Elway and Sullivan come in. Elway values Miller as a team centerpiece and he has also leaned on Sullivan to protect Denver's long-term salary-cap health, multiple sources told Yahoo Sports. Multiple sources also said Sullivan, a longtime NFL agent before joining Denver, has been determining the "salary slot" where players fall. And he played that role in salary talks with all of Denver's free agents as well, including Osweiler, Jackson and Trevathan, as well as limited conversations about Kaepernick's salary (if a trade with the San Francisco 49ers were to be consummated).

While Elway has been the focal point in many of the free-agent departures and salary standoffs, multiple sources say he has taken a hands-off approach in negotiations. Instead, they pointed to Sullivan as the person who laid the foundation in talks. And that foundation, several said, began with Sullivan low-balling a player's free-agent market or expecting a significant "discount."

Several of the sources also pointed to the recent contract extension of Wolfe, a Broncos defensive end who signed a four-year, $36.7 million deal less than two months before free agency. In light of some of the other contracts doled out last month, Wolfe appeared to have taken far less from the Broncos than he would have commanded in free agency. In turn, multiple sources said it created an environment where Denver was seeking discounts from all of their free agents.

"I think the Derek Wolfe deal screwed their heads up," one agent said. "It made [Mike] Sullivan believe he could get everyone to do bad deals. There is a lot of arrogance there."

Added another prominent NFL agent who dealt with Sullivan in previous years, "[He] tries to make everyone eat a [expletive] sandwich. And we have long memories."

How does any of this impact Denver's negotiations with Miller? Well, he's the first player who lacks some of the other significant "knocks" that have created a hardened stance by the Broncos. For Osweiler, the salary line was predicated on his lack of a track record. For Jackson, he wasn't among the highest priorities in the defensive scheme. For Trevathan, he was replaceable. These were all players the team could have extended one year ago, but didn't. Even in the Kaepernick discussions, he was slotted as a high-level backup whose contract needed to be adjusted to reflect that evaluation. Sources have said that Sullivan played a significant role in all of those assessments.

With Miller, Sullivan's negotiating approach gets tougher. Unlike Osweiler, Miller has a proven track record of greatness. Unlike Jackson, he's a cornerstone in Phillips' high-pressure scheme. And unlike Trevathan, he can't be seen as easily replaceable. Miller is also healthy, out of the drug program and currently the most widely recognized (and ticket-selling) Bronco outside of Elway.

While Miller has a mountain of contract leverage, he also has none. This is his peak time to be a free agent but he's not free to test the market. This is the kind of territory where the franchise tag helps an NFL team depress a veteran salary. That will loom large for Miller this offseason. His 2011 draft class was the first to have a rookie wage scale, which was put in place to restrict the massive deals unproven rookies once received. The idea being that the money would instead go to proven veterans. So in effect, Miller was among the first to take less as a rookie so he could make more as a proven veteran down the line.

Well, down the line has arrived. And that's why Miller isn't taking part in the offseason program.

Miller expects to be paid like the best defensive player in the NFL, and Denver has to decide whether such a number (somewhere between $19.1 million and $22 million) is worth it. Meanwhile, the Broncos have to take their stand after already losing three other key pieces of the roster in Jackson, Trevathan and Osweiler.

The stage is set for the next few months. Von Miller wants to be paid, and Denver doesn't want to overpay. Somewhere inside a gap that is millions apart, this negotiation could get uglier than anyone expected.
Click to expand...

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Would love to see Rankins fall to us. To the points above, not sure if he's going to be elite in the NFL, but seems like a concensus #1 at DT in this draft, and his initial speed sure seems to be elite. Knock against him may just be that he could be slightly undersized for an interior lineman in the NFL, and how he would fare on secondary rushes if the Oline neutralizes his initial explosion off the line.

Me, I just don't think he'll be there for us. But if he is, surely a no-brainer. Between him or Jack, would take Rankins given risk factor. 

And good thoughts on Lee. Guess I agree his skillset works better for need, and if guys like Rankins, Eze, etc. don't slip, would be happy with Lee or Jackson III.

But man, am I excited on the prospect of slippage....
Click to expand...
love this list of 4 for us at our slot. None are beyond the realm of possibilities.

You've just created my 4 Player (Realistic) Wish List.

 
joey said:
love this list of 4 for us at our slot. None are beyond the realm of possibilities.

You've just created my 4 Player (Realistic) Wish List.
Click to expand...
:thumbup:

I think our only trade options in the 1st will be if someone comes up for Lynch, or an OT.

If Tunsil, Stanley, and Conklin go before us (praying), then Decker is the only one left.  Could get interesting, and a lot of teams behind us need an OT.  

 
 
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