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2016 Oakland Raiders thread (2 Viewers)

Nice, dude. Glad to see you coming along here. Elliott is the dream pick at #14. He would make the single biggest difference to our team of any player in this draft, given how our roster is now built. He is exactly what we need to take this offense and team to the next level. Imagine how much better our D will be with rest and leads.
I kind of like that it seems like was a bit of an alpha male at OSU, which is saying something.  

Drafting where are, it's easier to whiff, and if you look at positions of need, I'm not so sure this corner or that defensive tackle is going to be that much better than some guy available in the second round.  It becomes more about letting the draft come to you, and getting a guy that is going to hit.  

It's still not my preference to take him.  If Sheldon Rankins, Shaq Lawson or (name the CB of your choice) become good players, I'd rather have players at those positions.  Based simply on positional scarcity and need.  Give me a Pro Bowl CB or DT over a Pro Bowl RB all day long.  And you have to assume our line is going to make whichever RB we have back there is going to look better than normal behind this O-line.

But mid-1st round, mitigating risk is part of the consideration.  Is Elliott a LOT more likely to hit than Lawson or Rankins?  Maybe.  And chances are, he'll have the biggest impact of any player we might get there.  

I'm trying to keep my mind open.  The only thing I am definitely rooting for is for players we can't use to get drafted in front of us.  I want to see QBs, WRs, and OL drafted in front of us.  

 
One Vonn Bell writeup---Hitting people with the wrath of Thor’s hammer is exactly how Vonn Bell approaches opponents when coming downhill.

Another-- Against the run, allows running backs to get on top of him and deliver the first blow. Drag down tackler without much thud.

:lmao:

 
Pass on Von Bell.  Those write-ups are dead on target.  Sometimes he's a missile, sometimes he dogs it all over the field. 

http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/2016/02/nfl_combine_2016_vonn_bell_the.html

INDIANAPOLIS -- Vonn Bell said he was iffy. Then he said that happened because he was lazy.

What has happened to the most confident Buckeye from an Ohio State team that was overflowing with confidence?

It seems like the safety got real after a dose of NFL reality, turning some early appraisal from scouts into a reflective admittance at his NFL Combine meeting with reporters Saturday.

The issue? Bell's commitment to run defense during his junior year - an All-American junior year - in Columbus.

"I saw on film while sitting down with scouts, they were tearing me up a little bit," Bell said. "But it's not hard to fix. I've got to run to the ball a little harder."

It sounds like this wasn't the first time Bell heard this criticism. Ohio State secondary coach Chris Ash, now the head coach at Rutgers, was pointing it out during the year.

"He was, he was," Bell said. "It happens."

Why?

"Being a young guy, thinking the world or whatever," Bell said. "It just happens."

Bell has always prided himself on making the plays that can change a game. Projected as a likely second-round pick, the 5-foot-11, 199-pounder has range in the passing game. If he wants to move up draft boards and make a case as a first-round pick, he has to persuade teams he'll go hard all the time.

"It's not just being paid," Bell said. "You've got to show passion. ... You're playing for your livelihood. You gotta get paid. You don't want to be on the streets, now."

So Bell will tell you he's the guy, the top safety in the draft. Mike Mayock of NFL.com rated Bell as the No. 2 safety coming into the combine, behind Karl Joseph of West Virginia.

"I've been a playmaker. I'm always going to be a playmaker," Bell said. "If you have playmaking ability, it's going to stick with you."

Bell's explanation about his run defense in the first answer of his media session led to several more questions about the "lazy" idea during his seven-minute interview. Despite spurts of confidence, it was atypical of a Bell encounter.

So before he left the podium, I asked the final question as a test to see where he stood. It was about the fictional Vonn Bell Academy, the imaginary school he's been talking about for several years where he teaches others how to play football.

Vonn, in whatever NFL city you wind up, will you open a Vonn Bell Academy there?

"Yes," Bell said. "It will be open. It's coming soon."

OK. He's fine. He just needs to get after it in the run game more.

 
Pretty fun little exchange on NFLN right now.  

Jeremiah mocks Jackson III to Oakland.  Lance Zierlein (Houston area draft guy, big on the Texans) comes on in faux-outrage, HOW can the team take another Houston CB, Raider fans are gonna blow up your Twitter!!!!

Everyone has a nice laugh.  Jeremiah says, 'Hey Lance, Texans just spent a lot of money on Osweiler, maybe if they hadn't been worried about the whole Carr name, they would have their QB already.'   :headbang:

Side note:  I must have heard 5 different NFL talking heads talking about the Raider fans on social media.  Apparently, there's a bit of a reputation.  Ha.  

 
Raider fans are just getting warmed up too.  The team is on its way up and winning more games.  We are going to be even more obnoxious soon. 

 
There is no need to think about Elliott falling to the Raiders at #14.  It is not going to happen.  Elliott is a 3-down back that starts week 1. 
You never know.... RB's have been so devalued over the last few years that teams may go elsewhere. That being said, I am seeing most mocks having him gone well before 14.

 
You never know.... RB's have been so devalued over the last few years that teams may go elsewhere. That being said, I am seeing most mocks having him gone well before 14.
Heard Lance Zierlein on a Eagles podcast, they were debating Elliott, he said Elliott wasn't making it to #8.   Everyone seems pretty sure lately. :shrug:

 
Good comments, both. But I think you are conflating my comments aimed specifically at the secondary to the entire D. There is no question our D got stronger up front with Irvin, and the promise of having Mario come back to form -- along with the unstoppable force that is Mack -- does a lot to make up for poor CB/Safety talent. A great pass rush that disrupts the pocket goes a long way to hide deficiencies in the defensive backfield.

But I can't be fooled into thinking what we have is truly a viable NFL secondary. Again, not including Sean Smith, who is absolutely a gigantic upgrade all by himself, there are a lot of unknowns everywhere else. I don't think it's doom and gloom to say that we are very weak past Smith in both dependable and proven starters and depth -- I mean, which of these guys would realistically start on other NFL teams?

That's not to say I don't have hope that Amerson continues his solid progression, or that guys like Carrie or McDonald will solidify. But they were guys that we picked up or drafted for emergency depth and help on special teams -- point being that they are relatively unproven in terms of consistent and reliable play.

I don't think it's anywhere near a stretch to write off Hayden. Guy has wasted his talent with a weak heart.  I also don't think it's a chicken little statement to worry about Allen coming back to form as a 29 y/o, regardless of how routine ligament tears are in this day and age.

Granted, safeties aren't as important as QBs, a pass rushing end/OLB, left tackle, or even a WR1. But any strong defense needs to be strong down the middle. To be really effective and make the most of our front 7, you need a playmaking safety to patrol the middle effectively and make the QB throw into man coverage (our default scheme) -- and where Smith can then shine.

This is has been a huge need for us since Woodson announced his retirement (and arguable earlier). I think it's smarter for us to nab a proven NFL-starting-caliber safety in Nelson now, rather than gamble in the draft and/or rely on the subpar talent we have. We have the money, but seem to have been waiting on the position and letting other guys (Gipson, Johnson, Weddle, Iloka, etc.) get resigned or taken without seeming interest.

Leaves me scratching my head, I guess.
We win games with having a good D not having a good secondary. Obviously the secondary is part of the D but I am not going to look at one unit and judge on that. Yes, it would help our D to bolster our secondary further but at the same time- when I look FA, I am looking at what did we do for the D- are we better or worst. I think we are a better D and we are not done. Is our secondary top notch? No- I would put it on the weaker side of the 32 teams but not a lot of teams have the players up front that we do either.

I appreciate Reggies patience and lack of just making moves to make moves. How many FA signings actually end up making a difference? I mean, not for the Raiders but for the league? More times than not- the teams that win free agency are the teams not making playoffs. I think a lot of time that is about chasing names and guys in different systems that don't fit the new system. I don't want us to go out and get another DeAngelo Hall or Larry Brown because they may look like we are bettering our secondary when really we are not- because they were horrible scheme fits. More and more to me Reggie has earned the benefit of the doubt and I much rather have his disciplined, patient and thoughtful execution than Al's later years of chasing big names with big paychecks that don't pan out.

 
Heard Lance Zierlein on a Eagles podcast, they were debating Elliott, he said Elliott wasn't making it to #8.   Everyone seems pretty sure lately. :shrug:
Ha- and everyone was sure Aaron Rodgers was not going to be around as long as he was.

The more the smoke then usually the chances are there is a fire but this is the season of deception and of people who have no real idea what teams are going to do telling us what they think or what they would do if they were those teams. And even if you are confident how things will play out with the picks it all gets instantly destroyed because of trades that are like the butterfly effect that change everything.

Yes, I would put the chances of him falling to #14 as not likely but it sure does not mean it won't happen.

 
He is one of my favorite safeties in this draft. I would love to see him in Silver & Black.
Any chance we could get him in the third? Or would he have to be a second round pick in order to grab him? I was able to catch him play some before the injury, and he'd be a lot of fun to have on our defense.

 
Any chance we could get him in the third? Or would he have to be a second round pick in order to grab him? I was able to catch him play some before the injury, and he'd be a lot of fun to have on our defense.
It's possible.  His Big Board rankings range from the 30's to 60's for the most part.  

Seems like 2nd/3rd round is his range.  

If we don't get a S in the 1st and 2nd, it's going to be a nail-biter waiting for that 3rd rounder, that's for sure.  Might have pure panic if we don't take on in the 3rd.  

 
Makes sense.  

Rivera is going to finish his rookie deal.  Smith is the blocker, they like Holmes, who was undrafted, mainly because of injuries.  If you assume there's no room for Rivera, I think the best hope is to trade a guy you like, but don't have room for, for a late pick or even better, a player like that on another team.  Find an extra safety or linebacker or backup center on another team.   That's the best scenario.  

Deals like that don't happen till the summer though.  

 
Makes sense.  

Rivera is going to finish his rookie deal.  Smith is the blocker, they like Holmes, who was undrafted, mainly because of injuries.  If you assume there's no room for Rivera, I think the best hope is to trade a guy you like, but don't have room for, for a late pick or even better, a player like that on another team.  Find an extra safety or linebacker or backup center on another team.   That's the best scenario.  

Deals like that don't happen till the summer though.  
Yea, Walford showed enough last year to expect he is our TE for the next few years. Smith is a very good blocking TE. Rivera is not much of blocker and you aren't going to keep 4 TE's if they really like Holmes. I like the idea of trying to get some value for guys you know you won't end up keeping for one reason or another (otherwise known as how the Pats do trades). Rivera may get some bites as he is a good catching TE and a lot of teams are looking to imitate the whole double TE set NE has done well with in the past.

 
Any chance we could get him in the third? Or would he have to be a second round pick in order to grab him? I was able to catch him play some before the injury, and he'd be a lot of fun to have on our defense.
It's possible he could be there in the third. But I think your rolling the dice waiting to mid third and hoping he is still there. Might have to take him in the second if the Raiders want him.

 
If the medicals check out I would love Smith with the 14th pick. I personally think he is the best player in this draft.
A healthy Jaylon.... I agree. Do we roll the dice on his health at 14? That is a big question. Could either catapult our D to top of the NFL or could set us back big time depending on if it is a hit or miss.

 
We're not that talented to afford to redshirt out first round pick. I like Jaylon Smith but it's nuts to say he's the best player in the draft. Even if he were 100 percent,  I'd take Miles Jack, or Jalen Ramsey.  Or Bosa. Pump the brakes at pick 14, not gonna happen.

 
We're not that talented to afford to redshirt out first round pick. I like Jaylon Smith but it's nuts to say he's the best player in the draft. Even if he were 100 percent,  I'd take Miles Jack, or Jalen Ramsey.  Or Bosa. Pump the brakes at pick 14, not gonna happen.
Sorry- better than Jack (at health). Harder to compare with Jalen or Bosa being different positions.

 
We're not that talented to afford to redshirt out first round pick. I like Jaylon Smith but it's nuts to say he's the best player in the draft.
I don't think its nuts.  He's in the discussion.  If healthy, he's in the discussion, and is definitely part of that top group-Tunsil-Bosa-Jack-Ramsey-Bucker.

I'm with you on passing at #14, that's a high price to pay for a guy that will probably miss the year, and whose game is built around athleticism.  It just seems like there are good players going to be there, at positions of need.   I would be happy with slapping a solid double to left field at #14. 2nd round?  I would not be unhappy.  Jaylon said that his doctor said the nerve would heal fine on its own, which sounds good, but still implies there was damage.  I still think it's possible he slides to the 3rd or 4th round.  There are going to be teams that take him off the board completely, and you are going to have a very limited amount of teams that are willing to draft a guy that is probably writing off 2016.  

 
I would be surprised if we don't take a backup C in the draft, there is depth at the position, and I don't think we have anyone that has played that role before,  

 
I'm keeping an eye on the Jets.  

I think they are the best shot at a trade down, because of the QB thing.  Rams picking right behind us.  If there's a QB there, it makes sense.  They cannot afford Wilkerson/Brick/Fitz.  They just can't.  But if they get a young QB, they can roll with rookie/Geno/Petty.  

 
I don't think its nuts.  He's in the discussion.  If healthy, he's in the discussion, and is definitely part of that top group-Tunsil-Bosa-Jack-Ramsey-Bucker.

I'm with you on passing at #14, that's a high price to pay for a guy that will probably miss the year, and whose game is built around athleticism.  It just seems like there are good players going to be there, at positions of need.   I would be happy with slapping a solid double to left field at #14. 2nd round?  I would not be unhappy.  Jaylon said that his doctor said the nerve would heal fine on its own, which sounds good, but still implies there was damage.  I still think it's possible he slides to the 3rd or 4th round.  There are going to be teams that take him off the board completely, and you are going to have a very limited amount of teams that are willing to draft a guy that is probably writing off 2016.  
I am fine passing on him in the 1st but would be very unhappy if we passed on him in the 2nd. I don't think he will be there in the 3rd for us.

 
We're not that talented to afford to redshirt out first round pick. I like Jaylon Smith but it's nuts to say he's the best player in the draft. Even if he were 100 percent,  I'd take Miles Jack, or Jalen Ramsey.  Or Bosa. Pump the brakes at pick 14, not gonna happen.
If 100% healthy I don't think it's nuts at all to say he could be the best player from this draft. If you can get a top 5 player in this draft at pick 14 you take it in my opinion. Even if you have to IR him to return. I would do it all day long if his medical re-checks come back good.

 
Jaylon Smith at 14 is crazy.  There are too many good players to pick from there to take a player that has a significant injury with nerve damage.  I'm not taking a guy at 14 that some teams probably have completely off their board.

 
that'd be like spending a 12th overall pick on a dude who almost died on the practice field due to a major heart issue! No one would do that, right?

;)

(sorry. can't let that one go)

 
I can't get on board with the Jaylon Smith first round pick either, assuming there are any question marks at all concerning his abilities after returning from a potentially nerve damaging injury. He's got a remarkable amount of skill, but with the momentum we've built I'd rather bet on a player that's potentially more of a "sure thing" (as if there is such a thing when it comes to the NFL draft) just to keep that train rolling in the right direction.

Thoughts on Reggie Ragland in the first? I see him mocked to us an inordinate percentage of the time, but I can't get excited about that pick. I'd rather have Rankins, Lawson, Elliot, etc., assuming all of them were available. Admittedly, I haven't been able to watch much Ragland tape. He checks all of the right boxes (SEC defensive player of the year, consensus All-American, active in the community, etc.), but I can't bring myself to get excited by it.

Any input would be appreciated.

 
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Ifo Ekpre-Olumu was released by Cleveland today. I wouldn't mind bringing him in.

Rand GetlinVerified account
‏@Rand_Getlin
Note on Ifo Ekpre-Olumu. I'm told he's 100% healthy and feels certain he'll be playing football at a high level this year.

 
Another Cleveland safety hits the market. 

Donte Whitner released by Browns

he's 30. I know his name but have no clue if he still has enough to be part of the Replace Charles Woodson Plan. 

Thoughts on Whtiner at this point in his career?

 
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His PFF grades were better than I would have thought.

For realz, tho.  I dunno if I remember any CLE defender at all last year.  

 
I liked seeing how Donte was upset that Cleveland didn't cut him earlier so he could be part of the first wave of free agency. That will hopefully lead to a bargain deal for a motivated vet for us!

Reggie, call Donte...or Ifo...or Reggie!

;)

 
joey said:
Another Cleveland safety hits the market. 

Donte Whitner released by Browns

he's 30. I know his name but have no clue if he still has enough to be part of the Replace Charles Woodson Plan. 

Thoughts on Whtiner at this point in his career?
Browns released SS Donte Whitner.

The move saves Cleveland $3.95 million, but leaves $4.5 million in dead money. Whitner is coming off a solid year, posting 81 tackles in 14 games and grading as PFF's No. 24 safety. The Browns are cleaning house in their secondary, cutting Whitner and failing to re-sign Tashaun Gipson. Entering his age-31 season, Whitner won't struggle for interest as the top available safety behind Reggie Nelson.

 
These are two very different players as well.  Nelson is more like Allen, a free safety.  Whitner clearly is a SS.

 

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