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2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (2 Viewers)

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Saw this on Twitter, can anyone confirm?

lue said he didn’t play Korver as much because Semi didn’t get any minutes, and he was reserving Korver to match up against Semi?

that cant be true can it? For Lue’s sake? 

Edit to add: found the actual clip:

https://twitter.com/defpenhoops/status/999493021048754176?s=21

so is this shtick or did he actually let Semi’s minutes dictate his decision on when to play Korver? 

 
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msudaisy26 said:
If you were in this thread earlier this year you would have seen the post that Kev made, I believe it was him. That the refs have never been better at any time in sports. So forgive me if I and many others in this thread don't want to hear your constant whining from your couch about the refs when you have no clue how to do their job or how hard it is. Your insight on these fouls is the equivalent of me going to have foot surgery done by a construction worker. 
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that was me

and it was an independent review by two non-league sources that revealed referees are objectively making the correct call something like 94% of the time

A HORRIBLE NUMBER

 
When I see constant whining about officiating, the doosh side of my brain automatically assumes the whiner knows little about basketball. Noting the officials missed a big call is fine. It happens. Extrapolating that into something beyond the officials missed a big call makes you a silly extrapolator. 

 
mr. furley said:
i stopped watching the NBA after the i realized that the refs rig every outcome for 48 minutes

we're all just watching a refereeing chess match but no one has figured it out yet
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How long before Fanduel offers DFS for referees? Do we think Football guys will give us access to this content with a regular membership?

 
Chaos Commish said:
When I see constant whining about officiating, the doosh side of my brain automatically assumes the whiner knows little about basketball. Noting the officials missed a big call is fine. It happens. Extrapolating that into something beyond the officials missed a big call makes you a silly extrapolator. 
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And this all gets exacerbated by the fact that players ##### and whine on just about every call or non call againat them, even if replay clearly shows it was the correct call/non-call.

I like Van Gundy's assertion that refs should issue technical fouls for players that whine about obvious fouls. I know it is hard to know if you got all ball, or a lot of arm, or if you were set or outisde the restricted area on a charge call. But there are times when things are shown to be clear fouls, yet the player acted as though it is an afront to their manhood to call that against them. Seems to not matter if it is a superstar like Lebron or Durant, or a shlub like Clarkson.

Makes me appreciate when dudes just take the call and show no emotion, regardless of the merit of the call. Jaylen Brown is good at that. He tens to just shut up and go on to the next play. Tatum seems to always have his hands up complaining, as does Love.

 
Wonder Woman SUCKED!

ETA: Don't know what i'm watching tomorrow nite. Will check Game 7 fo sho if there is one, though.

 
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the moops said:
And this all gets exacerbated by the fact that players ##### and whine on just about every call or non call againat them, even if replay clearly shows it was the correct call/non-call.

I like Van Gundy's assertion that refs should issue technical fouls for players that whine about obvious fouls. I know it is hard to know if you got all ball, or a lot of arm, or if you were set or outisde the restricted area on a charge call. But there are times when things are shown to be clear fouls, yet the player acted as though it is an afront to their manhood to call that against them. Seems to not matter if it is a superstar like Lebron or Durant, or a shlub like Clarkson.

Makes me appreciate when dudes just take the call and show no emotion, regardless of the merit of the call. Jaylen Brown is good at that. He tens to just shut up and go on to the next play. Tatum seems to always have his hands up complaining, as does Love.
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Agree, I will take it up a little. I hate when players are expecting the contact or the ball gets tipped out of bounds and they are begging for the call before the refs even make it. 

 
The missing of bunnies and layups did seem to continue for the Celtics last night. Game was won on defense and on the boards. 

 
That was such an ugly game last night.  Turnovers, missed layups, etc. It was basically decided by Celtics making 3's and FT's and Cleveland missing those.  Tatum looked good and Smart had one of his games, but the rest of the team looked the same as they did in game 4.  LeBron mailed it in a bit and still had a great game, but the rest of Cleveland played like garbage.  The defensive efforts were good, but the offense just looked really bad on both ends.

 
mr. furley said:
that was me

and it was an independent review by two non-league sources that revealed referees are objectively making the correct call something like 94% of the time

A HORRIBLE NUMBER
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I assume such a study ignores the violations that are considered to not matter right?

There is a lane violation on literally every free throw. I mean the rebounders dont even really line up behind the line anymore. The inbounder frequently is over the line after a made basket if there is no pressure, and if there is sudden pressure it is not uncommon for the guy to start passing it, realize there is pressure and basically dribble the ball on the line. 

Or does it only analyze the calls actually made?

 
parasaurolophus said:
I assume such a study ignores the violations that are considered to not matter right?

There is a lane violation on literally every free throw. I mean the rebounders dont even really line up behind the line anymore. The inbounder frequently is over the line after a made basket if there is no pressure, and if there is sudden pressure it is not uncommon for the guy to start passing it, realize there is pressure and basically dribble the ball on the line. 

Or does it only analyze the calls actually made?
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i'd have to go back and find the post in this thread.

as i recall it analyzed calls made and those that presumably could have been made based on watching the game tapes.

don't think it specifically mentioned things like carrying the ball or lane violations. neither of which i can recall having seen whistled in decades in the NBA. 

 
mr. furley said:
NBA and independent tracking source The Pudding find refereeing generally the same this year as it has been over the course of the years. fans think refereeing is at an all-time low.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23089756/nba-referee-relations-spotlight-nba

The official numbers from the league office show that referees have been right 97.4 percent of the time when they blow the whistle in the last two minutes of close games. Overall the referees have been judged to have 93.9 percent accuracy on all "graded" events, which includes non-calls.

This roughly matches independent tracking of the reports. According to the tracking site ThePudding, the league has reviewed more than 26,000 plays in the last two minutes of games within five points since March 2015, when the L2M reports began. In that period, the league has ruled referees missed or incorrectly called 8.2 percent of the reviewed calls, or about 1.5 incorrect calls in the final minutes of close games.

(pend your hot takes here)
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here's the original link @parasaurolophus

 
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mr. furley said:
here's the original link @parasaurolophus
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That sounds nice when you say 94%, but according to that report, that's only for the last two minutes of each game.  They didn't review the entire game(I'm assuming too much work).

Still, that equates to 1.5ish missed or wrong calls every game according to that article.  In a 10 point game, that doesn't matter, but in a tied game?  You blow two calls in a back and forth game in the last two minutes and you've just changed the outcome of that game.

 
encaitar said:
That sounds nice when you say 94%, but according to that report, that's only for the last two minutes of each game.  They didn't review the entire game(I'm assuming too much work).

Still, that equates to 1.5ish missed or wrong calls every game according to that article.  In a 10 point game, that doesn't matter, but in a tied game?  You blow two calls in a back and forth game in the last two minutes and you've just changed the outcome of that game.
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What's your solution? I don't think robot referees are ready to roll out yet.

 
I'm glad somebody is looking into the fee that the NBA is putting in place with the gambling passage. Silver certainly acted quick enough to ensure a fee was in place to collect when the gambling ruling hasn't changed much of anything yet:   

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/nba-defends-quest-for-integrity-fee-payment-in-sports-bets/ar-AAxKdeA?ocid=ientp

Something just seems shady about Silver. I know it is the cool thing to hate commissioners like the treatment Goodell gets, but Silver seems to have owned this one. He was in charge when the NBA blocked the CP3 trade to LA right? his whole shenanigans with stepping in with the Sixers to get rid of Hinkie was just shady too. Guy outsmarted the broken system, and so the answer is to get rid of the guy instead of figuring out how to fix your system. The result is now 8-10 teams "tanking" per year, and Silver feels the answer is to not say the word "tank" and everything will be fine.

 
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
What's your solution? I don't think robot referees are ready to roll out yet.
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I don't see any reason why we need a bunch of old men on the court running around in pants. One game official on the court, everything else comes from a dude (or dudes, or gals) watching the game on multiple screens. The screen ref has the authority to call everything and just buzzes in to the ref on the floor. 

 
Moe. said:
I don't see any reason why we need a bunch of old men on the court running around in pants. One game official on the court, everything else comes from a dude (or dudes, or gals) watching the game on multiple screens. The screen ref has the authority to call everything and just buzzes in to the ref on the floor. 
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This doesn't seem very well thought out.

 
modogg said:
I'm glad somebody is looking into the fee that the NBA is putting in place with the gambling passage. Silver certainly acted quick enough to ensure a fee was in place to collect when the gambling ruling hasn't changed much of anything yet:   

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/nba-defends-quest-for-integrity-fee-payment-in-sports-bets/ar-AAxKdeA?ocid=ientp

Something just seems shady about Silver. I know it is the cool thing to hate commissioners like the treatment Goodell gets, but Silver seems to have owned this one. He was in charge when the NBA blocked the CP3 trade to LA right? his whole shenanigans with stepping in with the Sixers to get rid of Hinkie was just shady too. Guy outsmarted the broken system, and so the answer is to get rid of the guy instead of figuring out how to fix your system. The result is now 8-10 teams "tanking" per year, and Silver feels the answer is to not say the word "tank" and everything will be fine.
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Wrong.

 
Synthesizer said:
This doesn't seem very well thought out.
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I'm the big picture guy, Brandt will fill you in on the details. 

It doesn't need to be that complicated though. You have one guy on the court so the players have someone to yell at. Two or three people at the existing facility in Secaucus watching on multiple monitors, which they already do. Just give them the authority to buzz in whenever they feel like it, instead of only going to them in specific situations like we do now. 

 
Moe. said:
I'm the big picture guy, Brandt will fill you in on the details. 

It doesn't need to be that complicated though. You have one guy on the court so the players have someone to yell at. Two or three people at the existing facility in Secaucus watching on multiple monitors, which they already do. Just give them the authority to buzz in whenever they feel like it, instead of only going to them in specific situations like we do now. 
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Let's start with the most basic play.... bang bang and the ball goes out of bounds off 2 players in the corner.  Rather than have a human using his own eyes to make the call from 5 feet away, you are suggesting that someone watching the game on a monitor make the call?

 
You can put two guys on the court if you want. The important thing is the person at the monitor has the authority to overrule them whenever. 

 
Moe. said:
You can put two guys on the court if you want. The important thing is the person at the monitor has the authority to overrule them whenever. 
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in addition if one of the on-court refs gets the call wrong does that person in the booth have a button that can issue a non-lethal shock to them, maybe a collar?

 
wilked said:
in addition if one of the on-court refs gets the call wrong does that person in the booth have a button that can issue a non-lethal shock to them, maybe a collar?
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I'll allow it. 

Who do you think makes more accurate calls in tennis? The chair ump and the linespeople or Hawk-Eye? Hawk-Eye isn't perfect but it's better than the human eye without the benefit of slow motion or replay. We have the technology to make this a lot easier and better for everyone. If you think that the fallibility of human refs is part of the game then that's fine, can't argue against that.  

 
Warriors +1 tonight seems too good to be true

edit: Line seems to be different every place I check. Bovada has Warriors -1 -105, bookie's site has Rockets -2

 
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Damian Lillard, First Team All-NBA

Honestly if you're not gonna let the freak classify as a guard it's a good pick.  Curry didn't play in enough games, Chris Paul probably didn't either, Lillard was probably a little better than Westbrook (better PER, led team to better record with arguably weaker roster), no other obvious candidates.  Maybe Butler but I'm not sure how they classify him plus he only played in 59 games.

 
encaitar said:
That sounds nice when you say 94%, but according to that report, that's only for the last two minutes of each game.  They didn't review the entire game(I'm assuming too much work).

Still, that equates to 1.5ish missed or wrong calls every game according to that article.  In a 10 point game, that doesn't matter, but in a tied game?  You blow two calls in a back and forth game in the last two minutes and you've just changed the outcome of that game.
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presumably pressure is highest in the last 2 minutes. generally mistakes happen under pressure. fans call it choking. players shrink under pressure.

that open 3 at the 4 minute mark of the 1st quarter sure does look a lot easier than the contested 3 with 35 seconds left in the game. refs are under the same pressure, maybe even moreso but less appreciated. "blowing" 2 calls in the final two minutes when there are hundreds of possible calls to be made and saying that means a ref "sucks" is extremely harsh.

the goal posts are moving a bit here from "the refs suck!" to "in the last 2 minutes of the game a 94% success rate sucks".

it's one of those arguments where you either think games are fixed, refs are awful people who couldn't tie a shoe and they're all cheating or you think it's an extremely difficult and thankless job being micro-judged by millions of people who get to watch 30 replays in super slo-mo before they make a decision.

sure there are some really awful looking blown calls but those are unfairly used as an example of how bad all calls are. it's a really....... simple.... way to look at the situation.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Damian Lillard, First Team All-NBA

Honestly if you're not gonna let the freak classify as a guard it's a good pick.  Curry didn't play in enough games, Chris Paul probably didn't either, Lillard was probably a little better than Westbrook (better PER, led team to better record with arguably weaker roster), no other obvious candidates.  Maybe Butler but I'm not sure how they classify him plus he only played in 59 games.
Click to expand...


Westbrook, Derozan, Aldridge, Giannis, Embiid - 2nd team

Oladipo, Curry, Towns, Butler, George

This post gives a breakdown of the votes. Lillard made the first team comfortably. Harden and LeBron were unanimous, Davis was very close.  Paul did not receive nearly as many votes as I would have guessed. 

 
the moops said:
And this all gets exacerbated by the fact that players ##### and whine on just about every call or non call againat them, even if replay clearly shows it ...

Makes me appreciate when dudes just take the call and show no emotion, regardless of the merit of the call. Jaylen Brown is good at that. He tens to just shut up and go on to the next play. Tatum seems to always have his hands up complaining, as does Love.
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As a Celtics fan I am so excited about Tatum's future. But, he's starting to bother me with this.

 
wilked said:
Saw this on Twitter, can anyone confirm?

lue said he didn’t play Korver as much because Semi didn’t get any minutes, and he was reserving Korver to match up against Semi?

that cant be true can it? For Lue’s sake? 

Edit to add: found the actual clip:

https://twitter.com/defpenhoops/status/999493021048754176?s=21

so is this shtick or did he actually let Semi’s minutes dictate his decision on when to play Korver? 
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I try not to be too hard on Lue because I know he doesn't get any credit for the things he does well, but this is pretty inept.

 
Moe. said:
Westbrook, Derozan, Aldridge, Giannis, Embiid - 2nd team

Oladipo, Curry, Towns, Butler, George

This post gives a breakdown of the votes. Lillard made the first team comfortably. Harden and LeBron were unanimous, Davis was very close.  Paul did not receive nearly as many votes as I would have guessed. 
Click to expand...
Does Trevor Ariza's mom have an All-NBA vote?

 
Moe. said:
I don't see any reason why we need a bunch of old men on the court running around in pants. One game official on the court, everything else comes from a dude (or dudes, or gals) watching the game on multiple screens. The screen ref has the authority to call everything and just buzzes in to the ref on the floor. 
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I agree.  Wear jorts or GTFO.

 
Moe. said:
I'll allow it. 

Who do you think makes more accurate calls in tennis? The chair ump and the linespeople or Hawk-Eye? Hawk-Eye isn't perfect but it's better than the human eye without the benefit of slow motion or replay. We have the technology to make this a lot easier and better for everyone. If you think that the fallibility of human refs is part of the game then that's fine, can't argue against that.  
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tennis ball in or out is far different than a foul call.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
tennis ball in or out is far different than a foul call.
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For sure. I almost put that in the post. 

I think I've posted this before but Rugby League has this figured out imo. Ref on the field makes the calls he sees, if something happens and he doesn't have a good view of it, he makes a square motion with his hands, it immediately goes to video review, they post the call on the jumbotron. Obviously the games are different and there are more decisions to be made in basketball compared to a lot of sports, so again it's not a perfect comparison but the general idea is the same. Technology makes the calls easier and more accurate. 

I'm not a ref complainer and think they do a pretty solid job given the circumstances. Do you think we will be doing this the same way 40 years from now, or do you expect technology to be integrated more and more as time goes on? 

 
So you want a continuous replay system where every play throughout the game can be reviewed?  Still seems awful.  I'll take instant calls by a human referee even if they are only 93% correct or whatever.  Heck, as we go to more replays in general I'd guess replays are only 95% correct anyway.

Imagine the excitement of all that waiting we would do while the replay crew reviews all out of bounds calls, all foul calls, all infractions, and everything in between for the full game   :excited:

 
Synthesizer said:
So you want a continuous replay system where every play throughout the game can be reviewed?  Still seems awful.  I'll take instant calls by a human referee even if they are only 93% correct or whatever.  Heck, as we go to more replays in general I'd guess replays are only 95% correct anyway.

Imagine the excitement of all that waiting we would do while the replay crew reviews all out of bounds calls, all foul calls, all infractions, and everything in between for the full game   :excited:
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MOAR basketball?!?!  :excited:

 
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