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2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (1 Viewer)

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msudaisy26 said:
This isn't football though, sooner or later you have to condense all those assets into 8 - 10 guys to make a run at it. Right now they have have IT, Smart, Bradley, Crowder, Brown, Oylnck, Horford, whoever they go after with their free agent money, 3 picks this year, plus how many picks for the next 2 years after, plus any guys they have stashed overseas. There might be a big gap between them and Cleveland/Golden State, but they are a top 6 team in the league right now. It is time to go for it.
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Sounds good but if you do that for the sake of doing it you can implode...they are a 52 win that went to the Eastern Conference Championship...they only have one player on the roster who is on the downside of his career...they have the #3 pick in the draft and at least two more high end picks and a boatload more and have been linked to almost every "available"veteran out there...why panic now...if the deal is out there I trust Ainge to make it and just because some blogger says there is a deal doesn't mean there is...I am not advocating doing nothing but there is absolutely no reason to rush this...they hold enough cards not to...if they come out of this off-season with something like Tatum and Hayward and their picks I will be more than happy...if they move picks for a Butler or Porzingas I will be just as happy...what I don't want to see and I feel pretty comfortable saying Ainge is trying to avoid is a situation where they push all their chips to the table and give themselves a small window and are right back to square one in 4-5 years...this team is in a very unique situation...they are a high-end team with a ridiculous amount of assets...they can build to compete now but also do it in a manner that is sustainable...when I see fans getting impatient all I can think of are the people who always used to question Belichik when he would trade out of the first round or let veterans walk...like BB I really believe Ainge is doing everything possible to make this last and due to that it will probably frustrate some who want immediate gratification just like they did at the last trade deadline...

 
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Jayrod said:
I live in Missouri.  We have nothing.  Closest teams to me are OKC & Memphis.

Plus, I didn't choose Boston, Boston chose me. :wub:  :shamrock:
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Well, faith & begorra, what a fine wee lad ye be! May your lane be open and the fast break always at your back.

I'd be a Stevens fan if i wasnt spoiled by my location. Watching other teams of ordinary talent flail around the court makes me sad for them, cuz every play seems to count in Stevensball.

 
Baloney Sandwich said:
He is 5 months older than Gordon Haywood who they apparently want to sign to a max deal
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Without surrendering any assets. I'm not saying don't touch any players in their late 20s, they just shouldn't be potentially mortgaging the future for a guy that may have already peaked as the 15th best player in the NBA.

 
msudaisy26 said:
Are you a Celtic homer? Porzingis isn't worth the 1st overall, now Butler isn't worth the 3rd overall. So if the Celtics don't just absolutely dominate a trade, like with Brooklyn, you hate it?
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Nope. I'm the resident Nuggets homer.

I don't remember me adding much to the Porzingis trade discussion other than he would great next to Jokic.

Right now the Celtics don't have the realistic ability to take on George or Butler prior to free agency without taking themselves out of the running for some of the max free agents that will be available. Adding Butler rather than the 3rd pick is going to be a big improvement for them, but they are still no better than the 3rd team in the NBA and maybe still the 5th or 6th best. If they could add say George or Butler plus Hayward and the 3rd pick while selling off future assets instead (Crowder and Smart or Bradley would be gone in this scenerio), they might have the horses to pass Cleveland and keep up with GS for a few games. There is a huge opportunity cost to acting prior to free agency.

 
Kev4029 said:
Nope. I'm the resident Nuggets homer.

I don't remember me adding much to the Porzingis trade discussion other than he would great next to Jokic.

Right now the Celtics don't have the realistic ability to take on George or Butler prior to free agency without taking themselves out of the running for some of the max free agents that will be available. Adding Butler rather than the 3rd pick is going to be a big improvement for them, but they are still no better than the 3rd team in the NBA and maybe still the 5th or 6th best. If they could add say George or Butler plus Hayward and the 3rd pick while selling off future assets instead (Crowder and Smart or Bradley would be gone in this scenerio), they might have the horses to pass Cleveland and keep up with GS for a few games. There is a huge opportunity cost to acting prior to free agency.
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I think it's the you need a guy to get more guys hypothesis. None of the top tier free agents are going to Boston just to play with Thomas, Horford and the surfeit of role player types they currently have. If they can land a top tier guy, then they might look more attractive to other top tier guys, so you trade for the first one.

 
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Jayrod said:
I live in Missouri.  We have nothing.  Closest teams to me are OKC & Memphis.

Plus, I didn't choose Boston, Boston chose me. :wub:  :shamrock:
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To each their own, but as someone who has been to hundreds of basketball and baseball games over the last several years and as probably had the chance to interact with opposing fan bases of every team in both sport, IMO you've chosen the absolute worst team fan base in America to join. Nobody combines obnoxiousness, arrogance and lack of knowledge of the sport like Celtics fans.

Small sample size of course, but in my experience you can do better GB. They don't deserve you.

 
TobiasFunke said:
To each their own, but as someone who has been to hundreds of basketball and baseball games over the last several years and as probably had the chance to interact with opposing fan bases of every team in both sport, IMO you've chosen the absolute worst team fan base in America to join. Nobody combines obnoxiousness, arrogance and lack of knowledge of the sport like Celtics fans.

Small sample size of course, but in my experience you can do better GB. They don't deserve you.
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I'm sorry, TF, what's done is done.  I can only try and raise the bar a bit.  

 
TobiasFunke said:
To each their own, but as someone who has been to hundreds of basketball and baseball games over the last several years and as probably had the chance to interact with opposing fan bases of every team in both sport, IMO you've chosen the absolute worst team fan base in America to join. Nobody combines obnoxiousness, arrogance and lack of knowledge of the sport like Celtics fans.

Small sample size of course, but in my experience you can do better GB. They don't deserve you.
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Boston fans are whiny tools, the lot of them /JoeB

 
Gr00vus said:
I think it's the you need a guy to get more guys hypothesis. None of the top tier free agents are going to Boston just to play with Thomas, Horford and the surfeit of role player types they currently have. If they can land a top tier guy, then they might look more attractive to other top tier guys, so you trade for the first one.
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Its self-defeating though. They don't have the money to sign the top tier free agents if they make that trade, so it doesn't matter if they are more attractive to the top free agents because they'll only have the ability to sign the Danilo Gallinari's of the free agency class.

 
Kev4029 said:
Its self-defeating though. They don't have the money to sign the top tier free agents if they make that trade, so it doesn't matter if they are more attractive to the top free agents because they'll only have the ability to sign the Danilo Gallinari's of the free agency class.
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I imagine they're going to have to dump Horford and Thomas (if they resign him, possibly just let him walk) at some point.

 
Gr00vus said:
I imagine they're going to have to dump Horford and Thomas (if they resign him, possibly just let him walk) at some point.
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The team will look vastly different after the summer of 2018. The only player I would bet on being around come August 2018 is Jaylen Brown.

 
Gr00vus said:
I imagine they're going to have to dump Horford and Thomas (if they resign him, possibly just let him walk) at some point.
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I wasn't a big fan of the Horford signing. He's not a $28 million a year player. I fear BOS will compound their mistake by signing IT to a $40 million a year deal. The Celts are much better off spending that money on other guys. Horford doesn't do enough on offense or defense to command that sort of money. And Thomas is the biggest liability on defense in the entire NBA. Both are probably too old to be relevant by the time the Celtics kids develop. 

I'm not really sure they are in a good position to go into "win now" mode without gutting the team or giving away all their assets. The spots for them to improve (based on value of investment moving forward) are Horford and IT. They could get better, younger, less expensive guys in those spots, which might allow Boston to attract another star player by having more cap room.

Another issue is going to be that they can't draft and roster all the picks they have, so unless they start trading them, they are going to have a boatload of picks to use on players they can't play.

So my concern overall is that if they had the guys they were potentially targeting now (say Butler and Hayward) instead of the guys they do have (Horford and Thomas), then they would be in great shape to add a couple more star players and be a team with 4 stars for 2017-18. I don't see another team that would have an interest in Horford, and it will cost the Celts a ton of money to extend Thomas.

Another option I heard was saving their cache of assets and picks until next year and then offering the sun and the moon for Davis.The Pelicans would probably pass, but if they were offered two lottery picks and a couple of young starters, would that get BOS even close?

 
Anarchy99 said:
Another option I heard was saving their cache of assets and picks until next year and then offering the sun and the moon for Davis.The Pelicans would probably pass, but if they were offered two lottery picks and a couple of young starters, would that get BOS even close?
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I realize they haven't won bupkis, but Anthony Davis is in the generational talent category. You go a decade or so before you land a player like that. He's got 4 years left on his current deal. No way the Pelicans are dealing him any time soon, and definitely not for a handful of role players and some lottery picks you'd end up using to hope you somehow draft another player as good as Davis. If anything, they should be going the other direction and trying to land Jimmy Butler or someone like that to put next to Davis.

 
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Gr00vus said:
I realize they haven't won bupkis, but Anthony Davis is in the generational talent category. You go a decade or so before you land a player like that. He's got 4 years left on his current deal. No way the Pelicans are dealing him any time soon, and definitely not for a handful of role players and some lottery picks you'd end up using to hope you somehow draft another player as good as Davis.
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I get that somehow getting Davis is a pipe dream right now, but the logic on this discussion was that Davis has 3 years left on his contract (not 4). Keep compiling draft picks and young talent. Maybe BOS trades the Nets pick next year for a lottery pick the year after. Maybe the Lakers are good enough that Boston gets the Kings lottery pick instead in the same draft. Next year plays out. The following year plays out.

Now Boston has two lottery picks in the upcoming draft. Let's say Brown and Smart (just as examples) are now decent productive starters. Say Boston keeps Bradley and he continues to be a decent scorer and still plays great defense. Davis now has a single year left on his contract and does what George just did (not going to re-sign). Now what for the Pelicans? 

Do they say no to a package of two lottery picks, an established all defensive team defender and two solid young players / starters? ((Kings lottery pick, lottery pick from Nets pick trade, Brown, Smart, Bradley). Do the Pelicans say no to that package if The Brow looks very unlikely to return?

 
Gr00vus said:
I realize they haven't won bupkis, but Anthony Davis is in the generational talent category. You go a decade or so before you land a player like that. He's got 4 years left on his current deal. No way the Pelicans are dealing him any time soon, and definitely not for a handful of role players and some lottery picks you'd end up using to hope you somehow draft another player as good as Davis. If anything, they should be going the other direction and trying to land Jimmy Butler or someone like that to put next to Davis.
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The 4th year is a play option for Davis. IMO, next offseason is the best time to look into trades if you are the Pelicans. With 2 years of team control they would still be getting maximum value for him. Also by next year, they'll know if Cousins is the solution or not at center. If he is, they'll offer him boats of money to stay and the Pelicans will probably stay the course. If he isn't the solution, they are going to be nearly capped out assuming they re-sign Holiday (if not, they are already ####ed and Davis is going to be begging to leave), and it'll be a great time to reload with a Davis trade and start the re-build.

 
strykerpks said:
Casual lurker to this thread. Keep up the good work Cappy #antifariq :thumbup: :lmao:

Hey SWCer what did you think about the Friday evening news dump of the Bangos new GM? I'll hang up and listen.
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hey there fellow scanny brohan well i like it he has been around was a part of the decision making that got us  tron master and brohodgon and that aint bad in the past couple o years and i like that is going to know the team inside and out better than some johnny come lately would so i am with it these new owners they seem to know what they are doing i will give them that new arena up and coming team kidd has done ok and i was wrong about him what can you say sometimes you just have to trust the team and i will for now take that to the bank brochachos 

 
SWC said:
hey there fellow scanny brohan well i like it he has been around was a part of the decision making that got us  tron master and brohodgon and that aint bad in the past couple o years and i like that is going to know the team inside and out better than some johnny come lately would so i am with it these new owners they seem to know what they are doing i will give them that new arena up and coming team kidd has done ok and i was wrong about him what can you say sometimes you just have to trust the team and i will for now take that to the bank brochachos 
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It's probably going to be a quiet offseason for Horst.  The Bucks are pretty much capped out and wouldn't have had much flexibility even if Monroe opted out.  They need to hit at 1.17, decide whether to match on Tony Snell and start thinking about what to do about Parker's extension. 

It's hard to fault Hammond too much for overspending on guys like Delly, Henson and Teletovic last summer.  It was an inflated market due to the cap increase and he needed to fill a lineup.  Those guys are going to be tough to move but not impossible.  The Bucks were able to trade Miles Plumlee last year.

 
Sammy3469 said:
I don't know if you can say that.  KAT is going to be a top 10 player in the league.  KP is going to be top 20 at least in his prime.  Booker and Turner may be All-Stars at some point.  Then you have a bunch of rotation players like Johnson, Oubre, Dekker, Anderson, Jefferson, Jones, Harrell, Hernangomez, Holmes.  It is missing some of the "starter" quality, but the top 4 guys are better than 2013 and arguably '14 and there is some depth to it (13 and 16 are probably worse and 14 is probably a little better)

More than anything though, the past 3 or 4 drafts have shown just how bad team evaluations of players have been.  My guess is scouts still haven't adjusted to the new NBA, but drafting of players by teams has been close to abysmal for awhile now.  
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I think there's a lot of factors. Old school thinking of scouts and lack of player development on all levels. Don't think one and done helps either. A lot of these kids need more then a year experience in college. Unless youre the Spurs or someone similar teams aren't developing young players like they should. 

 
Long Ball Larry said:
You can be a Hawks or Kings fan.  Those are your choices.
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yeah SIxers fans may need to call a meeting soon. We may need to close the bandwagon off, it is getting way out of control. National media, who used to poke and make fun of the Sixers, now all of a sudden are fans. It may get tough...

 
modogg said:
yeah SIxers fans may need to call a meeting soon. We may need to close the bandwagon off, it is getting way out of control. National media, who used to poke and make fun of the Sixers, now all of a sudden are fans. It may get tough...
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Don't worry, they'll all jump off in December when Fultz tears his achilles.

 
modogg said:
yeah SIxers fans may need to call a meeting soon. We may need to close the bandwagon off, it is getting way out of control. National media, who used to poke and make fun of the Sixers, now all of a sudden are fans. It may get tough...
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Watch that bandwagon empty when Embiid misses another 40 games this year.  76ers are going to be awful again. 

 
Gr00vus said:
Too bad it doesn't renew busted connective tissue and cartilage.
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:kicksrock:

Good thing is the Sixers were competitive without Embiid, SImmons and Fultz on the court. God forbid Embiid gets another injury, but even if that occurs they have added much more talent to keep them afloat. 

 
modogg said:
:kicksrock:

Good thing is the Sixers were competitive without Embiid, SImmons and Fultz on the court. God forbid Embiid gets another injury, but even if that occurs they have added much more talent to keep them afloat. 
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I'm joking. I'd trade the Lakers's situation for the 76ers's in a millisecond.

 
DJackson10 said:
They offered that to the Sixers and then apparently Boston offered that to the Bulls and then they said no. 
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and i'd like to add that all of these rumors circulating are coming from random or off the record source. I don't think anybody has come out and said anything at this point. NBA seems to be a in a bit of a frenzy this year with some of this stuff

 
Assuming the 76ers take Fultz, what happens with Saric? Do they fit together? Saric comes off the bench? Gets traded? Seems like he might not be effective on a team where Fultz and Simmons will probably initiate a lot of the offense.

 
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Gr00vus said:
Assuming the 76ers take Fultz, what happens with Saric? Do they fit together? Saric comes off the bench? Gets traded? Seems like he might not be effective on a team where Fultz and Simmons will probably initiate a lot of the offense.
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tons of talk about Saric being a priority 6th man. They have also talked about different line-ups, figuring Embiid plays 60 games or so. I don't think he gets traded unless the value makes sense. The Sixers have most pieces in place out of a Shooting Guard 

 
tommyGunZ said:
Ball, Ingram, PG13 > Embiid, Simmons, Fultz
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What about Deng? What about how much PG13 is going to cost and the result on the cap space? What about the other 10 players on those teams? What about that PG13 isn't on the Lakers? What about that the 76ers have more and better assets to trade for PG13 (or a similar quality player) if they want to?

 
modogg said:
yeah SIxers fans may need to call a meeting soon. We may need to close the bandwagon off, it is getting way out of control. National media, who used to poke and make fun of the Sixers, now all of a sudden are fans. It may get tough...
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I've said for awhile City wise the Sixers aren't really a popular team as much as College ball has been. I remember the 01 finals and in 8th grade all the bandwagon Sixers fans. I knew more about that team and I was kind of newer to them per say in rooting for them (Remember I said before i tried to become a fan) then most of these people who claimed to be huge fans. I have a friend who's the worst sort of fan ever but claims to be an expert when it comes to the draft stuff and all (Went to school for sports management but did nothing to really accelerate his career nor has the personality for the job) as he's a bandwagon homer. Doesn't really care about the local Philly teams unless they are good yet claims he knows a lot and doesn/t Once tried to argue that Iggy was a great player because he was the best dunker in the league. Same kid thought that PSU Football (He went to PSU) would beat my Florida team and wasn't good the year that Florida steamrolled Ohio State in the NT game Tebow's Freshman year. Yeah the kid is very thick headed and the worst sort of Sports fan ever. I was interested in going to the Phillies game tomorrow afternoon (1:05) as we haven't been to one in like 2 yrs. Found tickets that just went away an hour ago 40 bucks 12 rows behind the plate. Didn't want to go because they stink and he needs to get ready for the NBA. Really? 

 
Gr00vus said:
What about Deng? What about how much PG13 is going to cost and the result on the cap space? What about the other 10 players on those teams? What about that PG13 isn't on the Lakers? What about that the 76ers have more and better assets to trade for PG13 (or a similar quality player) if they want to?
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Be nice he is trying to look at the positives. His team just had to give away the 2nd overall pick from a couple of years ago because their GM went on a spending spree like a drunk college boy that loves Star Wars the 1st time he logged into in Ebay. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
There are probably about 20 to 25 teams that wish they were in the 76er's spot right now. Who would have thought that 3 years ago?
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I wouldn't say teams would trade their left nut for their situation because there's still plenty of questions and it could crumple down at anytime. Still it's better then a lot of teams. Just a ton of question marks. 

 
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