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2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (4 Viewers)

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Kev4029 said:
They are busy today. In the last 12 hours they have posted both part 1 and 2 of the mock offseason (even for us plebs that don't subscribe) and immediate reaction pods to both the Paul and PJ news. I listed to 1.5 hours this morning and I'm already nearly 3 hours behind. Love these guys.
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Same. I finished part 1 on my way home from work.

I love their "jokes." They just crack themselves up and I enjoy that.

I also learn so much about the cap stuff in the NBA and that is awesome.

 
Hayward is hoping to have a short free agency, but doesn't have a visit lined up with the Celtics. Just the Heat and Jazz, should the Celtics be worried here?

 
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-favoritism-austin-rivers-led-194049049.html

if the bolded is true, even a greatly diminished Melo, Doc Rivers should have been fired long ago. 

If Chris Paul trusted Doc Rivers to build and coach a contender with the Clippers, he would not have been laying the groundwork with other teams in advance of free agency, then ultimately telling the Clippers he was headed to the Rockets and they should make a trade to send him there. Which they did.

That distrust isn’t just that the Clippers never got out of the second round, it was about the perception of how Rivers managed the team — specifically his son Austin Rivers. I have been told by multiple players and people around the Clippers there was a real frustration with how the younger Rivers was treated, including Austin getting a three-year, $35 million contract seen as more than he deserved.

Long-time Los Angeles-based broadcaster and current ESPN anchor Michael Eaves — who used to do the Clippers pre- and post-games shows on Fox Sports in L.A. — gave up the details on his Facebook page.

Paul’s relationship with Doc Rivers started to deteriorate rapidly after the Clippers acquired Austin Rivers. Several members of the team felt Austin acted entitled because his dad was both the coach and the President of Basketball Operations. In the view of the tenured players, Austin Rivers never tried to fit in, and when players tried to address the situation with him, he still did not respond the way the core of the team wanted him to. It led to resentment within the locker room, which often played out during games. One of Paul’s biggest contentions with Doc was that Paul, and other players, felt Doc treated Austin more favorably than other players. He would yell at guys for certain things during games and practices, but not get on Austin in the same manner for similar transgressions.

But what really solidified Paul’s dissatisfaction with Doc was a proposed trade involving Carmelo Anthony last season. New York offered Carmelo and Sasha Vujacicto the Clippers in exchange for Jamal Crawford, Paul Pierce and Austin Rivers, a deal to which Rivers ultimately said no. That event led Paul to feel that keeping his son on the roster was more important to Doc than improving the team. So, ultimately, Paul lost both trust and faith in Doc. As one league executive put it, “Chris despises Doc.”

Would having swapped out Crawford and Rivers for Carmelo Anthony really have changed the course of last season for the Clippers? No. They weren’t beating Houston, San Antonio, or Golden State because they had ‘Melo (can you imagine what Golden State would have done to him defensively in the pick-and-roll?). But whether or not saying no to the trade was the smart move by Doc Rivers, because of his previous moves it was seen by players through the prism of favoritism

Eaves goes on to point out this is a perfect option for CP3. If he and Harden can mesh in Houston — no sure thing, they are both used to being ball-dominant guards — he can re-sign next summer with them on a max contract, essentially giving himself a six-year deal with $230 million that takes him to age 38. If it doesn’t work out, he and his buddy LeBron James can team up anywhere that a team can swing cap space for two max salaries (both Los Angeles teams could qualify there, so long as Doc is gone from the Clippers).

There have been a lot of tea leaves to suggest — and more obvious signs recently such as bringing in Jerry West — that Doc Rivers’ era in L.A. may be coming to end. He’s still owed a lot of money, but power seems to be moving away from him.
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EYLive said:
Yeah fishing. Standard knowledge... For 2 people... So standard, in fact, that Google doesn't bother posting any info about it.
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I'm gonna agree with them. Pretty common knowledge that the Clippers are a bunch of turds. It's pretty amazing that you have failed to either notice how annoying they are or admit to it for some reason. Chris Paul is most of the reason why, but the rest of the team kinda sucked too. The Rockets with Paul and Harden will be unbearable. 

 
Kev4029 said:
I'm gonna agree with them. Pretty common knowledge that the Clippers are a bunch of turds. It's pretty amazing that you have failed to either notice how annoying they are or admit to it for some reason. Chris Paul is most of the reason why, but the rest of the team kinda sucked too. The Rockets with Paul and Harden will be unbearable. 
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They were unbearable with just one of them 

 
Kev4029 said:
I'm gonna agree with them. Pretty common knowledge that the Clippers are a bunch of turds. It's pretty amazing that you have failed to either notice how annoying they are or admit to it for some reason. Chris Paul is most of the reason why, but the rest of the team kinda sucked too. The Rockets with Paul and Harden will be unbearable. 
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Clips AINEC

 
Man, what a fantastic off-season.

I have no idea how Paul will work in HOU, but it will be fascinating to see unfold. I could see them pushing GSW to game 6, and I could also see Paul and Harden choking each other (same could maybe be said for IT and Hayward, without the game 6 part). Either way, win-win. D'antoni has had a great career, and we are about to find out just how good he is.

Between all this and Monk, I'm back in on the NBA. 

 
pollardsvision said:
Man, what a fantastic off-season.

I have no idea how Paul will work in HOU, but it will be fascinating to see unfold. I could see them pushing GSW to game 6, and I could also see Paul and Harden choking each other (same could maybe be said for IT and Hayward, without the game 6 part). Either way, win-win. D'antoni has had a great career, and we are about to find out just how good he is.

Between all this and Monk, I'm back in on the NBA. 
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I don't think Paul goes to Houston unless he believes they are making some other moves. They need another playmaker to make that work.

 
need2know said:
I don't think Paul goes to Houston unless he believes they are making some other moves. They need another playmaker to make that work.
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I thought that too, but if all these rumors about the Clippers and Doc are true, I could see why he would just leave for another good team. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
I thought that too, but if all these rumors about the Clippers and Doc are true, I could see why he would just leave for another good team. 
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Esp if he's only there for one year

 
next year paul can sign with the bucks because we could use a solid backup journeyman for brohagdon take that to the bank brochachos 

 
need2know said:
Esp if he's only there for one year
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More than anything, I think this was a play to get himself, LeBron, Melo, and Wade (not that Wade really matters at this stage) in the same FA class.  Whether that means they all go to Houston, back out to LA, or somewhere else, I don't know, but I fully expect CP and LeBron to be somewhere together in 2018-9.  It lines up too nicely now.

 
Eephus said:
DJackson10 said:
LOL yeah if I'm DJ I'm fuming. You made me stay rather then going to Dal only to leave the next year. Yeah F You. I wonder how Mark Cuban feels as well? If I'm Jordan I'm telling the Clippers I want out now. 
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Yeah, Dallas would have been a much better situation :rolleyes:
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It's not about it being a better situation team wise, but that he had made a decision and then the Clipper family basically kidnapped him to stay. Now, Paul forces a trade and there's been talk about Griffin leaving via FA, Reddick leaving via FA and even rumors about the Clippers shopping Jordan. I'd be pretty pissed having the whole thing blow up after all the song and dance to keep him. Dallas wouldn't have made the playoffs, but the team sure as hell would have been way better with Jordan in the middle all year instead of Bogut in there for 1/3 of the season.

When I saw the trade, the first thing I thought, well laughed about, was the whole kidnapping of Jordan to keep him a Clipper.

 
I realize none of you agree with me but 8 think Carmelo is one of the most underrated players in the league.  To win basketball games you have to score more points than your opponent.  Half of that is defense and half is, you know, scoring. There are very few people who can score like him. Even if you think he's just a better version of Rudy Gay, it's important to note that Rudy Gay is about to get 15 million a year or more from someone to be a poor man's Carmelo. Carmelo is one of the premier scorers in the NBA.  (One of only 6 active players to lead the league in scoring, top 20 scorer every year of his career, great in isolation).   Every time I see him live I am reminded of watching Tim Duncan wherein I look up and say to myself, "weird....i don't remember him having 20 points as we start the 4th quarter."

At this point he needs to be somewhere as a second scoring option who can stand and shoot uncontested threes but also be a go to out of timeouts and the occasional end of games.  As.much as I would love him in Houston he would likewise flourish in my view in a place like Washington, Portland, or even Boston where a scoring point guard can disrupt the defense and THEN get Carmelo involved when the D is off balance.  

 
Dr. Octopus said:
He's not very good but they would have been getting him for absolute garbage.

I'd say there's no way the Knicks even made that offer, but Phil Jackson...
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I've talked about this before, but Carmelo is a very good player if he is playing power forward. According to 82games.com, he averages 26.2 pts/6.9rebs/3.0asts per 36 with a .500 eFG% (I caclulated roughly a .550 TS%, about league average) and a 22.6 PER. Those are fantastic numbers. IMO he is also a much better (less worse?) defender at the position as well. He needs to be a full time PF sooooo bad.

 
i would like wade to convince them all to come to milwaukee where he went to college and dominate alongside anteater and tron master and brohagdon and snellybelly it would rule just imagine if the powerhouse of the league was the milwaukee fn bucks man that would be hilarious and then every time the warriors came we plied them with beer until finally draymond has a big old beer belly and we call him fatmond it would be like the hansel and gretel story and then a witch eats him take that to the bank bromigos 

 
SWC said:
i would like wade to convince them all to come to milwaukee where he went to college and dominate alongside anteater and tron master and brohagdon and snellybelly it would rule just imagine if the powerhouse of the league was the milwaukee fn bucks man that would be hilarious and then every time the warriors came we plied them with beer until finally draymond has a big old beer belly and we call him fatmond it would be like the hansel and gretel story and then a witch eats him take that to the bank bromigos 
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Whenever I see Brohagdon, my mind reads it as Bromageddon.

 
bromageddon is when me and my brohans get a keg and fire up some looking glass on the hi fi and some burgers on the grill out in the driveway and that my fine feathered friend you can indeed take to the bank 

 
Abraham said:
I realize none of you agree with me but 8 think Carmelo is one of the most underrated players in the league.  To win basketball games you have to score more points than your opponent.  Half of that is defense and half is, you know, scoring. There are very few people who can score like him. Even if you think he's just a better version of Rudy Gay, it's important to note that Rudy Gay is about to get 15 million a year or more from someone to be a poor man's Carmelo. Carmelo is one of the premier scorers in the NBA.  (One of only 6 active players to lead the league in scoring, top 20 scorer every year of his career, great in isolation).   Every time I see him live I am reminded of watching Tim Duncan wherein I look up and say to myself, "weird....i don't remember him having 20 points as we start the 4th quarter."

At this point he needs to be somewhere as a second scoring option who can stand and shoot uncontested threes but also be a go to out of timeouts and the occasional end of games.  As.much as I would love him in Houston he would likewise flourish in my view in a place like Washington, Portland, or even Boston where a scoring point guard can disrupt the defense and THEN get Carmelo involved when the D is off balance.  
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The NBA has yet to have a signing of one of the 5-yr supermax ($200mil) contracts which pretty much announce, "We cant really build a team around this guy now because of this contract, but he's so valuable we gotta lock him up". The last contract of that kind was the one Melo signed with the Knicks, eschewing good but lesser $$ to be the final piece in the Bulls puzzle for the extra doremi and chance to make his ol lady famous in NYC. 

A player simply can't be "underrated" in those circumstances. There's no doubt there are skills there, but it's been Melo's standing around, showboating, who-me-ing and system(yes, even that one)-ignoring that has made him the "i-dont-want-her-you-can-have-her-she's-too-fat-for-me" of professional basketball. He is not an asset to a team anymore because, for all the NBA's other faults, the new game does require that you pay attention or get exploited and i cant see him caring again unless LeBron makes him his same-class ##### in some superteam

 
wikkidpissah said:
The NBA has yet to have a signing of one of the 5-yr supermax ($200mil) contracts which pretty much announce, "We cant really build a team around this guy now because of this contract, but he's so valuable we gotta lock him up". The last contract of that kind was the one Melo signed with the Knicks, eschewing good but lesser $$ to be the final piece in the Bulls puzzle for the extra doremi and chance to make his ol lady famous in NYC. 

A player simply can't be "underrated" in those circumstances. There's no doubt there are skills there, but it's been Melo's standing around, showboating, who-me-ing and system(yes, even that one)-ignoring that has made him the "i-dont-want-her-you-can-have-her-she's-too-fat-for-me" of professional basketball. He is not an asset to a team anymore because, for all the NBA's other faults, the new game does require that you pay attention or get exploited and i cant see him caring again unless LeBron makes him his same-class ##### in some superteam
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Agreed...if Carmelo ever got his head on straight and committed himself to team hoop he could still be a big time player (as opposed to a stat aggregator)...there is a ton of talent there and if he were to link up with Lebron (or another star) and went balls out he could be a real difference-maker...and he would have to be with that contract...anything other then playing like that will hurt a team...

 
stbugs said:
It's not about it being a better situation team wise, but that he had made a decision and then the Clipper family basically kidnapped him to stay. Now, Paul forces a trade and there's been talk about Griffin leaving via FA, Reddick leaving via FA and even rumors about the Clippers shopping Jordan. I'd be pretty pissed having the whole thing blow up after all the song and dance to keep him. Dallas wouldn't have made the playoffs, but the team sure as hell would have been way better with Jordan in the middle all year instead of Bogut in there for 1/3 of the season.

When I saw the trade, the first thing I thought, well laughed about, was the whole kidnapping of Jordan to keep him a Clipper.
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Jordan and his management knew the Clippers' situation when he agreed to resign.  They had a two year window but things didn't work out as planned due to injuries, poor supporting cast, playoff underperformance, etc.  He's made $40M on this deal and has another $46M coming.  I have my doubts about whether he can carry a team but here's his chance to prove he's the man and get lined up for his next payday.

But speaking of Dallas, it's hard to figure out their plan to build their next contender.  I assume Dirk will stay for another year and they'll try to extend Noel, but I don't think a team built around Noel and Harrison Barnes will go very far.

 
wikkidpissah said:
The NBA has yet to have a signing of one of the 5-yr supermax ($200mil) contracts which pretty much announce, "We cant really build a team around this guy now because of this contract, but he's so valuable we gotta lock him up". The last contract of that kind was the one Melo signed with the Knicks, eschewing good but lesser $$ to be the final piece in the Bulls puzzle for the extra doremi and chance to make his ol lady famous in NYC. 

A player simply can't be "underrated" in those circumstances. There's no doubt there are skills there, but it's been Melo's standing around, showboating, who-me-ing and system(yes, even that one)-ignoring that has made him the "i-dont-want-her-you-can-have-her-she's-too-fat-for-me" of professional basketball. He is not an asset to a team anymore because, for all the NBA's other faults, the new game does require that you pay attention or get exploited and i cant see him caring again unless LeBron makes him his same-class ##### in some superteam
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Agree for the most part. But he can still be a useful player even at a big salary. 

 
Eephus said:
But speaking of Dallas, it's hard to figure out their plan to build their next contender.  I assume Dirk will stay for another year and they'll try to extend Noel, but I don't think a team built around Noel and Harrison Barnes will go very far.
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Lots of people think Dennis Smith is a potential star. If they hit on him and Noel reaches his ceiling as a rim protecting lob guy, there are worse cores to build around. 

 
Abraham said:
Agree for the most part. But he can still be a useful player even at a big salary. 
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I dont think anyone can keep Melo's head on but LeBron anymore. Them coming up together, having it out, the King getting all the stuff Melo wanted & them becoming pals in the end makes James the only coach or player in ball get him to stay on task and i got Melo doing his b-ball penance & gettin his title by opting out to be the "whatever's left" cap##### for the Lakers, Rockets or whatever team hosts LeBron's Last Stand. Ga-ron-tee he still be playing one-up games ad nauseum with anyone else in the sport.

 
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