2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (2 Viewers)

[Deamon]

0-4 in OT. he's called it a career.

Is this a joke? 

 

[tjnc09]

We all know James traded Irving to Boston anyways so he could do a sign and trade this off-season.  No one benefits from disrespecting James so this is conversation is probably meaningless.

 

[Dedfin]

But that's what great leaders do. 

Sure I can understand if LBJ wants to strangle or pout or be disappointed. That's a completely reasonable response for anyone.

However, is that what a great leader does? Nope and LBJ is the team's leader. I think it's a valid criticism when the best player looks defeated with OT left to play. 

LBJ the player did everything he could do to put that team in a position to win, but LBJ the leader failed them.

Jordan would have probably choked JR out on the spot.

 

[Stuart Ullman]

The same team that beat Philly without irving and Hayward. Yeah I wouldn't quote Vegas odds 

That's not how this works. It's not rock, paper, scissors.

 

[Britney Spears]

I can’t believe you think he should have just shrugged it off. 

GSW homer who doesn’t want to see the soul crushing way that game ended - major officiating blunder, followed by FT miss & all-time great hilarious boneheaded teammate. 

 

[Da Guru]

https://twitter.com/Ballislife/status/1003479077326487552

Video of Cavs bench after Smith's error.  

*James reaction is when he asked if they had a timeout left

Good leadership qualities.

 

[Stuart Ullman]

Also, anyone who is insulting Lebron at this juncture doesn't understand basketball.

The Cavaliers have no business being in the Finals and Lebron carried the team here. There's no player past or present you could put in Lebron's place that would beat the Warriors in this series.

Winning this series is NOT a one man job.

 

[msudaisy26]

I think it's cute how NbA fans defend other teams having a chance every year. I guess ill bounce from this thread.

I guess you missed the Rockets vs. Warriors series.

When the seasons starts there will be roughly 8 teams that have a chance, 2 to 4 of them will fall off the map due to injuries, or just because they weren't as good as we thought for this year. See the Spurs this year. The another 1 or 2 teams will actually rise up and have a chance that were kind of unexpected. See the 76ers this year. Then when they playoffs start you will have 3 - 6 teams that will have a chance at making the finals. Roughly 1 or 2 of these teams will complete flame out. See the Raptors this year.

Are the Warriors and the Celtics in those 8 teams when the season starts, for sure. I would be willing to bet that they will be 2 of the 6ish teams that have a real shot at making the finals once the playoffs start. That is far as I am willing to go until I see where all the good free agents sign (LBJ, George, Paul, Cousins, and it is unlikely he leaves, but even Durant.)

 

[msudaisy26]

Am not THAT bored.  But I'll take your word for it.  That surprises me though that everyone in here thought Cleve won that trade. 

Just going off memory I think I liked the trade for both, but thought Boston slightly overpaid. I will say this, if Boston doesn't resign Kyrie that trade will probably end up being a lose/lose for both teams. The Cavs could have had 2 more shots with Kyrie and LeBron. (I know he is a free agent after this year, but I think he would have signed another 1 year deal) and Boston lost the pick.

 

[Deamon]

Just going off memory I think I liked the trade for both, but thought Boston slightly overpaid. I will say this, if Boston doesn't resign Kyrie that trade will probably end up being a lose/lose for both teams. The Cavs could have had 2 more shots with Kyrie and LeBron. (I know he is a free agent after this year, but I think he would have signed another 1 year deal) and Boston lost the pick.

Kyrie was unhappy and was vocal about wanting out.  Don't think there was any way he was going to be in Cleveland this year.

 

[msudaisy26]

You are crazy to think LeBron on some other east team doesn't have a chance against Boston (especially Philadelphia)

If LeBron went to any of these teams in the East this summer they would probably win the East barring injury. Bucks, Raptors, Wizards, 76ers, Celtics, Pacers. I would give him a punchers chance, with the Heat, Pistons, Hornets, Knicks, and Magic.

 

[msudaisy26]

Kyrie was unhappy and was vocal about wanting out.  Don't think there was any way he was going to be in Cleveland this year.

True, but using hindsight. Don't you think the Cavs would call him and hope he was bluffing considering what they got in return?

 

[Britney Spears]

 at the hypothetical scenario where Rodman completely blows the game but Jordan "demands a refocus".

Also where he isn’t playing with Scottie fn Pippen by his side. 

 

[Charlie Harper]

Also, anyone who is insulting Lebron at this juncture doesn't understand basketball.

The Cavaliers have no business being in the Finals and Lebron carried the team here. There's no player past or present you could put in Lebron's place that would beat the Warriors in this series.

Winning this series is NOT a one man job.

That's missing the point.

No one is debating LBJ's importance or value to the team. HE IS THE SOLE REASON that Hill and Smith are even in position to blow the game. 

What people are criticizing is his lack of leadership at that instance. That's a separate issue from his production on the court.

If people want to cut him slack for his lack of leadership bc of his on court impact, that's fine. However, even those people need to admit LBJ could have handled it better. 

Again....his decision to act pout/no talk to his teammates could either do nothing or negatively impact his teammates. Acting in a engaged and supportive manner could have only helped...no downside at all. So why not choose the option that helps your team?

 

[MAC_32]

True, but using hindsight. Don't you think the Cavs would call him and hope he was bluffing considering what they got in return?

I have a hard time with this. The Cavs could have gambled and held firm. To a guy that was part of a team that got blown out in the finals. That coasted and generally just went through the motions all season.

This obviously hasn't worked and may be the end, but I don't think the alternative would have worked either. It needed shaken up to have a chance though. And to this point it's actually been a more competitive finals with LeBron and his army of bums. 

 

[GoBirds]

When LeBron leaves this dumpster fire of a team does he help the hope team by allowing sign and trade or look out for #1 and not hurt his future squad? Assume the latter?

Think of how miserable Love is going to be when LBJ is gone and he still has to live in Cleveland. 

 

[Alex P Keaton]

That doesn't even make sense. 

He took 4 shots in 5 minutes of OT (which would extrapolate to 38 shots a game). That is not giving up.  Giving up would be going out there and taking no shots and looking passive.  

Fair.  We've seen that LeBron before, so we all know what that really looks like.

 

[Britney Spears]

But that's what great leaders do. 

Sure I can understand if LBJ wants to strangle or pout or be disappointed. That's a completely reasonable response for anyone.

However, is that what a great leader does? Nope and LBJ is the team's leader. I think it's a valid criticism when the best player looks defeated with OT left to play. 

LBJ the player did everything he could do to put that team in a position to win, but LBJ the leader failed them.

Great leaders are so divested from emotion, that they would never punch a teammate or anything like that. 

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I do. Feel free to bump next year. The finals have been warriors cavs four years in a row. This year boston wouldve made it if not for the injuries to irving and hayward. Next year boston-warriors is a lock unless lebron goes to houston. Mark it down now. The NBA is a joke. The athletes are amazing, the sport itself is a joy to watch, the offseason is the best of all the leagues but the final outcome is known by everyone well in advance.

Yes, it was a lock this year that Houston would look like the better team through 5 games, the Warriors would be down double digits at half often, and Chris Paul (MVP of the Western Finals through 5 games) would get injured, thus insuring your Nostradamus-like credentials would remain safe.

 

[Tau837]

What if he forms another super team (him, george, Paul all agree to goto LA)?

If Paul goes to LA, what does Ball do, warm the bench?

 

[SWC]

guys listen to the superfans labrohan who almost singlehandedly beat a nintendo video game make the best team lineup until his team turned in to crack addicts in the final seconds sucks and is terrible at basketball take that to the bank bromigos 

 

[Charlie Harper]

Great leaders are so divested from emotion, that they would never punch a teammate or anything like that. 

We're talking about LBJ and not MJ. 

 

[wikkidpissah]

lol who exactly told you otherwise?  A 5'5" guard who gets bum hunted in the postseason has no value in the NBA.

There are probably less than five players who can change the whole dynamic of the league and James is one of them.

i did. The present condition of the Li'l Fella's hip & 'tude and seeing how the Celtics can play without having to adjust for his size does not detract from the fact that IT's 2015-7 performance as the Celtics leader was as impressive as i've ever seen a Celtic play in 55 years a fan and superior to anything Kyrie has done. 

 

[Stuart Ullman]

That's missing the point.

No one is debating LBJ's importance or value to the team. HE IS THE SOLE REASON that Hill and Smith are even in position to blow the game. 

What people are criticizing is his lack of leadership at that instance. That's a separate issue from his production on the court.

If people want to cut him slack for his lack of leadership bc of his on court impact, that's fine. However, even those people need to admit LBJ could have handled it better. 

Again....his decision to act pout/no talk to his teammates could either do nothing or negatively impact his teammates. Acting in a engaged and supportive manner could have only helped...no downside at all. So why not choose the option that helps your team?

For me, Lebron was justified to give up on his team like that. If anyone is allowed to be frustrated or selfish on that team, it's him.

His team and coach let him down. At that point he knew they couldn't win the series. He's human.

The last thing I think to do in that situation is criticize Lebron. I empathize with the big guy. Nothing he does will be good enough to beat this team and he is emotionally defeated (think Raptors when the will to fight is broken, it's over).

His team didn't deserve leader Lebron James in that moment, imo.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

If Paul goes to LA, what does Ball do, warm the bench?

Maybe Ball gets traded for someone good?

 

[Chaos Commish]

So not really believing the Lakers could land Lebron but digging into the story a little because I'm bored, turned up some interesting stuff I didn't know. His wife reportedly said after they purchased the 20 million dollar home in Brentwood that she wanted to live in LA full time. Rich Paul, the Akron based agent who owes his entire career to Lebron and one of his closest friends, also recently purchased a home in LA. Maverick Carter, his closest confidante and Akron based business partner on numerous ventures, likewise has recently purchased an LA home. Lebron then purchases a second Brentwood home, this one brand new and with tons of space for guests, for 23 million. That's 43 million in Brentwood property. Like 10% of his net worth. My online sportsbooks are not taking bets at the moment. If it's +500 I'll risk a little. I'm going to Vegas in a few days, I should be able to find the prop there, but last I saw it was 3:1 there. 

 

[Chaos Commish]

I've been to hundreds of NBA games. That scene on the bench y'all are debating is pretty common stuff. I think many of you are just not used to looking at an NBA bench during a break. Expecting Lebron to channel his inner Knute Rockne is silly. These are grown men with more hours playing than most of you have posts and that's saying something. The mistake wasn't made on the bench. Those guys are going to do what they do regardless of what's said on the bench in that moment. They were all processing something ridiculous. No other superstar leader guy was going to save that mess with some magic motivational inspiration. They rested. They got over it. They played ball. That's the nba. 

 

[tommyGunZ]

if i were a GM in Atlanta, Orlando, Sacramento or New York i wouldn't even give Lebron a sniff at the vet mininum. guy just doesn't want it badly enough.

He’s not a leader.  Quits too easily.  

 

[Frostillicus]

People also told me I was crazy when I said Irving for IT plus was a steal for BOS.

What?  Who?  

 

[Frostillicus]

All one has to do is search this thread. Most here loved the trade for Cleveland. I was one of the few who loved it for Boston. Just search if youre bored. 

I would be stunned if you can find anyone who loved it for Cleveland. I do recall a lot of “the best they could have done in those circumstances” talk, but that’s not nearly the same thing. 

 

[Tau837]

Think of how miserable Love is going to be when LBJ is gone and he still has to live in Cleveland. 

Won't he be familiar from his days in Minnesota?

 

[Stuart Ullman]

Also note, Michael Jordan once gave Steve Kerr a black eye.

LINK

 

[Frostillicus]

What is the list of players who would have shrugged off the end of game 1 and been a “proper leader?”  No way on Jordan. No way on Bird. Magic ok maybe. No on Barkley. Maybe on some current warriors but they are in a vastly different situation with a margin of error that isn’t razor thin. No on Westbrook. No on harden. No on Paul. 

Who we looking at here?  

 

[Frostillicus]

I apologize for hijacking the thread especially since im not really an NBA fan.

You’re going to have to be way dumber to get kicked out of here. I believe in you. 

 

[Frostillicus]

Won't he be familiar from his days in Minnesota?

I hate you. 

 

[Chaos Commish]

What is the list of players who would have shrugged off the end of game 1 and been a “proper leader?”  No way on Jordan. No way on Bird. Magic ok maybe. No on Barkley. Maybe on some current warriors but they are in a vastly different situation with a margin of error that isn’t razor thin. No on Westbrook. No on harden. No on Paul. 

Who we looking at here?  

Yes on Paul, but no big deal. He's had years of practice on the Clippers though. He held a struggling Rocket team together and quoting Kerr, willed them to two wins before the hammy. He would have been a little animated there, and it might have backfired depending on the knucklehead. Barkley has called him the best leader in the league for years and I think it is because he's always in his teammates grills, side coaching, willing himself and his team to try harder. It's real. Does it make him a better leader than Lebron? No, not really, but it would have made some people in this thread happy.

 

[Frostillicus]

Yes on Paul, but no big deal. He's had years of practice on the Clippers though. He held a struggling Rocket team together and quoting Kerr, willed them to two wins before the hammy. He would have been a little animated there, and it might have backfired depending on the knucklehead. Barkley has called him the best leader in the league for years and I think it is because he's always in his teammates grills, side coaching, willing himself and his team to try harder. It's real. Does it make him a better leader than Lebron? No, not really, but it would have made some people in this thread happy.

You won me over. 

 

[Charlie Harper]

So not really believing the Lakers could land Lebron but digging into the story a little because I'm bored, turned up some interesting stuff I didn't know. His wife reportedly said after they purchased the 20 million dollar home in Brentwood that she wanted to live in LA full time. Rich Paul, the Akron based agent who owes his entire career to Lebron and one of his closest friends, also recently purchased a home in LA. Maverick Carter, his closest confidante and Akron based business partner on numerous ventures, likewise has recently purchased an LA home. Lebron then purchases a second Brentwood home, this one brand new and with tons of space for guests, for 23 million. That's 43 million in Brentwood property. Like 10% of his net worth. My online sportsbooks are not taking bets at the moment. If it's +500 I'll risk a little. I'm going to Vegas in a few days, I should be able to find the prop there, but last I saw it was 3:1 there. 

After the HOU series I think a Lakers team featuring LBJ, PG13, Ingram, Kuz, and Ball could give the Dubs a run. 

It would require the young guys to improve on defense, but they have the length and athleticism to switch everything like Hou and still have enough offense to compete. 

Of course they would require a few ring chasing vets, but the team has a solid chance. The Houston series really proved that although the Dubs have 4 All-Stars, they can be challenged as long as Curry can be picked on every possession.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Hedo raining down 3s on the Cavs in 09 is definitely the funniest. 

I worked with a girl who dated Hedo for a bit. Think this was before he had herpes or genital warts or whatever.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

There's no player past or present you could put in Lebron's place that would beat the Warriors in this series.

Thanos?

 

[Short Corner]

Everything you said is correct, but think about it this way....did James actions help his team at all?

Best case....sitting their pouting..did nothing to change the outcome.

Worst case....it torpedoed his team's confidence and/or didn't refocus his teammates who just lost the game.

A motivation/upbeat LBJ at that moment in time has only positive benefits....can't think of a single negative. Acting the way he did potentially impacted his teammates negatively.

Seriously though, ask your husband to explain it to you.

 

[Short Corner]

People also told me I was crazy when I said Irving for IT plus was a steal for BOS.

DJax and Bobcat don't really count.

 

[Short Corner]

.

 

[Short Corner]

Won't he be familiar from his days in Minnesota?

TC > CLE all day every day.

 

[Deamon]

That's missing the point.

No one is debating LBJ's importance or value to the team. HE IS THE SOLE REASON that Hill and Smith are even in position to blow the game. 

What people are criticizing is his lack of leadership at that instance. That's a separate issue from his production on the court.

If people want to cut him slack for his lack of leadership bc of his on court impact, that's fine. However, even those people need to admit LBJ could have handled it better. 

Again....his decision to act pout/no talk to his teammates could either do nothing or negatively impact his teammates. Acting in a engaged and supportive manner could have only helped...no downside at all. So why not choose the option that helps your team?

 

[GOB]

I worked with a girl who dated Hedo for a bit. Think this was before he had herpes or genital warts or whatever.

Sorry about that

 

[Bull Dozier]

This is suck a weak argument on who is better or what competition was better. No one used the 3 pointer like they do now. You guys act like there were a couple teams running around hitting 3's like crazy and the Bulls just got lucky and avoided them all. 

The game has evolved. 

Saw a great clip on Timeless Sports' Twitter Feed yesterday (sorry, can't like here but it is a great follow).  It was Jordan talking postgame after his first three peat.  He was saying how since he won three in a row it was an accomplishment that put him up there with the all time greats, but he wasn't lobbying for greatest of all time because players play different in different eras. He was wise beyond his years.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Maybe basketball's not your sport Mike.  I know, let's watch a spelling bee.

Or maybe I like basketball played to the rules of the game without giving stars the advantage of violating them and then actually awarding them with free throws. 

As for spelling bees, some of those kids are clutch.

 

[Short Corner]

Or maybe I like basketball played to the rules of the game without giving stars the advantage of violating them and then actually awarding them with free throws. 

As for spelling bees, some of those kids are clutch.

Meh...failed pop culture reference by me there.  Anyway, I don't think he gets away with much compared to what other guys in the league do.  He is just so ### #### big and agile and challenges guys to take a charge against a freight train with the likelihood that they are not going to be able to get to the spot and still get rung up despite taking the punishment.  A bigger threat to the game, IMO, is the constant holding done defensively and on screens.  Laughable that TT wraps up Curry on the screen every time and then Curry gets called for the push off trying to break free.

 

[SWC]

What is the list of players who would have shrugged off the end of game 1 and been a “proper leader?”  No way on Jordan. No way on Bird. Magic ok maybe. No on Barkley. Maybe on some current warriors but they are in a vastly different situation with a margin of error that isn’t razor thin. No on Westbrook. No on harden. No on Paul. 

Who we looking at here?  

jack sikma probably take that to the bank brohans