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2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (2 Viewers)

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We should do a time machine thread where we make up dumb hot takes about Michael Jordan throughout his career.  We can start in 1984. Total postseason choke job. Sure the team won a title in '82, but James Worthy was the leader of that squad. When it was his turn to take the reins he flamed out.  Pathetic excuse-making to blame Kenny Smith's wrist injury, too.

 
How does one disagree with his leadership?  Because I don't think his body language after regulation was that of a leader. Many people in here agreed. Many analysts agreed. You're acting like I'm the only one that had a problem with it. 
You're acting like I'm acting like you're the only one who has a problem with it.

 
The fact that everyone seems so biased on defending him is telling. He could freak out at everyone on the court and there would be excuses or people defending him. 

The fact is, he's been blasted by some people with a lot more experience in these situations than you or I. I don't believe in the "toughen up sissy" blanket-type of leadership, nor do I think it works on every player. 

Do you honestly think Lebron being pissy on the bench INCREASED their chances to win?  Can anyone honestly say that with a straight face?  if you think Kobe, Jordan, magic, etc would have reacted that way, you're wrong. you have an opportunity to snap Jr out of his funk, turn to him and say "man shake it off, we got this" (which I think Jr would have reacted better to), and he didn't. korver was the only dude on the bench showing life and trying to keep his team's heads in the game. players follow their leader emotionally, and lebron looked defeated. I am shocked there are this many basketball fans that feel so strongly that lebron handled that situation well. 

 
Anxious to see if Andre Iquodala plays and is effective if he does.

Anxious to see if Javale McGee plays and if he is effective and if he can keep from being rejected by the rim.

Wondering if for a game Korver or Smith can find their stroke.

Wondering if in desperation Thompson provokes Green into a suspension.

Answers in a few hours.

 
The fact that everyone seems so biased on defending him is telling. He could freak out at everyone on the court and there would be excuses or people defending him. 

The fact is, he's been blasted by some people with a lot more experience in these situations than you or I. I don't believe in the "toughen up sissy" blanket-type of leadership, nor do I think it works on every player. 

Do you honestly think Lebron being pissy on the bench INCREASED their chances to win?  Can anyone honestly say that with a straight face?  if you think Kobe, Jordan, magic, etc would have reacted that way, you're wrong. you have an opportunity to snap Jr out of his funk, turn to him and say "man shake it off, we got this" (which I think Jr would have reacted better to), and he didn't. korver was the only dude on the bench showing life and trying to keep his team's heads in the game. players follow their leader emotionally, and lebron looked defeated. I am shocked there are this many basketball fans that feel so strongly that lebron handled that situation well. 
:lmao:

 
TreMENdous difference between calling one's team out and throwing them under the bus. With Magic, Bird, MJ there was never a doubt that they were as unhappy with themselves over a game coming down to turning on a misplay as they were with any possible miscreant. I can't rank LeBrohan, as talented & dominating & competitive an athlete as i've ever seen, as the best basketball player ever simply because he thinks everything that happens in the world that doesn't happen BECAUSE of him happens TO him and that's as ugly & counterproductive a quality as Wilt's nonchalance, Kareem's diffidence, Kobe's ego & rapiness or anything else which keeps top players from GOAT consideration.

 
Can you name someone who would be dealing with it better? I mean, not just players now, i mean any other player ever??

Which player in the history of ever would be doing a better job overall?
:lmao:  do you always ask everyone else to find examples for what you want to prove?  

I am not sure what you are even asking for, the call in game 1, his teammates, a superstar teammate asking to be traded?

 
If you had an argument built on anything but Strawmen and weak presuppositions I might.  But for now :lmao:  is all the effort I can muster up for that weak ###  ####.
So you think Lebron did an admirable job in that moment of being an emotional leader preparing his team for OT. Ya?  

 
Yes or No. 

Lebrons actions on the bench were the best way to prepare his team mentally and emotionally for OT. 
It's not his job to prepare his teammates mentally and emotionally.  Emotionally?  Seriously?  Are you sure you're not getting this from the Anson Dorrance book on leadership?

Great book by the way

 
It's not his job to prepare his teammates mentally and emotionally.  Emotionally?  Seriously?  Are you sure you're not getting this from the Anson Dorrance book on leadership?

Great book by the way
I didn't ask if it was his job. I asked if he did all he could to prepare his team during that break. If pouting in his hands was the best way to motivate his team. 

 
No one is giving him a free pass for the OT behavior.  We've all said he could have handled it better.  But we also recognize that he was thrown into a very difficult and emotional situation.  He wasn't perfect in one moment.  Not a big deal, move on.

 
Odd that you gave her a like and you have been lying most, if not all, of the blame on LBJ.  I don't know whose fault it was.
I'm pretty open minded when it comes to that. Lots of the loss was on Lue, on his teammates, etc. It's not all lebrons fault. Never said it was. I also can admit that lebron is the most talented basketball player I've ever watched. His accomplishments have been amazing. He's THAT good.  What I said is his actions on the bench (as well as other things in his career) show me he is a very good leader.  That as a leader of a team in the finals, I think it Is your responsibility to get everyone on the same page. Motivate. Encourage. Lead by example. And not look emotionally defeated which is then passed along to your teammates. 

 
This board really needs a strawman emoji.  the lmao doesn't do your posts justice
Again dodging the question and blindly putting him on a pedestal.  He can do no wrong to you. He's perfect to you. He's the best leader in history and everyone should whine like he does. 

 
No one is giving him a free pass for the OT behavior.  We've all said he could have handled it better.  But we also recognize that he was thrown into a very difficult and emotional situation.  He wasn't perfect in one moment.  Not a big deal, move on.
Really?  Everyone tonight is giving him a free pass for that moment. Saying it's not his job to motivate them in that moment. 

I don't see where anyone in the last few pages has said he should have handled that better? 

 
TreMENdous difference between calling one's team out and throwing them under the bus. With Magic, Bird, MJ there was never a doubt that they were as unhappy with themselves over a game coming down to turning on a misplay as they were with any possible miscreant. I can't rank LeBrohan, as talented & dominating & competitive an athlete as i've ever seen, as the best basketball player ever simply because he thinks everything that happens in the world that doesn't happen BECAUSE of him happens TO him and that's as ugly & counterproductive a quality as Wilt's nonchalance, Kareem's diffidence, Kobe's ego & rapiness or anything else which keeps top players from GOAT consideration.
:thumbup:

 
Alright well you've proved your intelligence. And your trolling attempts. You've said nothing to defend that he screwed up in that moment. 
Nothing to defend

Again dodging the question and blindly putting him on a pedestal.  He can do no wrong to you. He's perfect to you. He's the best leader in history and everyone should whine like he does. 
when you build your argument on this crap

 
I'm pretty open minded when it comes to that. Lots of the loss was on Lue, on his teammates, etc. It's not all lebrons fault. Never said it was. I also can admit that lebron is the most talented basketball player I've ever watched. His accomplishments have been amazing. He's THAT good.  What I said is his actions on the bench (as well as other things in his career) show me he is a very good leader.  That as a leader of a team in the finals, I think it Is your responsibility to get everyone on the same page. Motivate. Encourage. Lead by example. And not look emotionally defeated which is then passed along to your teammates. 
Dude. The game was over as soon as it went to overtime. No motivational speech would have led the Cavs to an over time win on the road vs this warriors team. You are delusional.

 
No one is giving him a free pass for the OT behavior.  We've all said he could have handled it better.  But we also recognize that he was thrown into a very difficult and emotional situation.  He wasn't perfect in one moment.  Not a big deal, move on.
:goodposting:

And I have a bigger problem with everyone in the video besides Lebron and Smith....and the other coaches who I assume are huddled up 20 feet away where the huddle up normally happens.  Lue also did virtually nothing upon returning to his team.  It was a complete waste of time.  That's not on Lebron.

 
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Dude. The game was over as soon as it went to overtime. No motivational speech would have led the Cavs to an over time win on the road vs this warriors team. You are delusional.
Agreed they would have lost anyways. I still think as great of a player as he is, he should have conducted his body language better and not given up. If you want to be the best ever, you don't admit you've lost the game until it's over. I get he was frustrated. I would be too. And I wouldn't have handled it any better. But he's supposed to be better than that. I think he should have acted more mature and not let his frustrations show and rub off on his team. 

 
Agreed they would have lost anyways. I still think as great of a player as he is, he should have conducted his body language better and not given up. If you want to be the best ever, you don't admit you've lost the game until it's over. I get he was frustrated. I would be too. And I wouldn't have handled it any better. But he's supposed to be better than that. I think he should have acted more mature and not let his frustrations show and rub off on his team. 
Now he gave up?

 
We should do a time machine thread where we make up dumb hot takes about Michael Jordan throughout his career.  We can start in 1984. Total postseason choke job. Sure the team won a title in '82, but James Worthy was the leader of that squad. When it was his turn to take the reins he flamed out.  Pathetic excuse-making to blame Kenny Smith's wrist injury, too.
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/767019-official-retroactive-michael-jordan-hot-take-thread/

 
:goodposting:

And I have a bigger problem with everyone in the video besides Lebron and Smith....and the other coaches who I assume are huddled up 20 feet away where the huddle up normally happens.  Lue also did virtually nothing upon returning to his team.  It was a complete waste of time.  That's not on Lebron.
Korver was trying to rally everyone at least. 

Someone explained that coaches usually spend the first 2 minutes together away from team discussing things anyways. But yes, Lue also did nothing when he came back. Seemed like he thought the game was over too. And he also deserves blame. 

 
Korver was trying to rally everyone at least. 

Someone explained that coaches usually spend the first 2 minutes together away from team discussing things anyways. But yes, Lue also did nothing when he came back. Seemed like he thought the game was over too. And he also deserves blame. 
Korver did some clapping when Lue returned, IIRC.  I would have liked to see Kyle, Perkins, and Calderon in there as soon as they saw the tension and frustration happening.  Like I said the other day, and while I have no way to prove it besides knowing the type of players and bench/locker room leaders they were, guys like RJeff, Frye and James Jones would have been in there rallying the troops.

And yes, you're right about the coaches huddle, but there are also coaches behind the bench and in the case of the Cavs some are former NBA players.  You see the legendary Amon Ones the entire time, and I think Posey too.  

 
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No one is giving him a free pass for the OT behavior.  We've all said he could have handled it better.  But we also recognize that he was thrown into a very difficult and emotional situation.  He wasn't perfect in one moment.  Not a big deal, move on.
There's no room in this thread for a reasoned and balanced take.

 
@Deamon - please post all your LeBron takes on his personal Twitter feed. Be sure to clearly identify yourself as a 76ers fan.

Sincerely, Cavaliers, Rockets and Lakers fans.

 
You're right. Lebron is the greatest leader in NBA history. That's what you're insinuating with that statement. 
Sooooooo, which player would be doing better right now?

And no, I am NOT saying he is the best leader in NBA history.  Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, we have no way to really know.  I am saying in this EXACT position right now, I think he has this team playing better than any other one player ever would have them playing.  

If you disagree, just tell me the player who you could swap in who would have the Cavs playing better right now.

 
:lmao:  do you always ask everyone else to find examples for what you want to prove?  

I am not sure what you are even asking for, the call in game 1, his teammates, a superstar teammate asking to be traded?
Simple question.  If you can't figure out what I am asking, so be it.  Don't feel like spoon feeding you.

 
Up 2-0 is a bone bruise the kind of thing where once you can deal with discomfort you don't really benefit from additional rest, or would he be even more healed with another couple days off?
Isn't the schtick that Kerr just disregards game 3?  I don't think it makes sense if they aren't pushing hard to win it in four. 

 
Korver was trying to rally everyone at least. 

Someone explained that coaches usually spend the first 2 minutes together away from team discussing things anyways. But yes, Lue also did nothing when he came back. Seemed like he thought the game was over too. And he also deserves blame. 
no way you can put any blame on Lebron. this year I think he is in the same category as Barry Sanders. a great talent, with a sub-average team. the weight of the whole organization is on his shoulders every single F'n game. guy has to give his all, every single game, to keep the team in games. I don't know if any of us know what it is like to have to do this over and over, when you know your window is not as large as it was when he was younger. he is basically pissing away a year of his career this year.

the whole rah rah stuff is great for high school sports, and thankfully I have missed the last few pages of this thread to see this argued ad nauseum, but the guy can not be blamed when he literally gives his all and his team can not provide at least average back.

 
Not sure how this would work and what that means for Kyrie, but LBJ allegedly will talk to the Celtics. 

https://www.weei.com/blogs/alex-reimer/lebron-james-will-have-conversation-celtics-says-stephen-smith
lol, why would he not visit every team and get all he can. Celtic's fans wish, but they have no cap room that would even make any sense. they already overspent on Heyward, Kyrie, and Horford. Why in the world would Lebron go there.

I know we are in for it for the next month with reports of Lebron going to every team in the NBA, but realistically it is Philly or he stays in Cleveland (which I can not imagine is on the table either). Houston would be great, but I can't imagine a team that arguably would have won the championship if they avoided the CP3 injury is looking to overhaul a good portion of that roster to just bring Lebron in. CP3 is saying he wants the max now because he knows Lebron isn't going there. I guess there could be a surprise team like San Antonio, but he has said the whole time his family and winning will decide this. you think his kids want to move all over the country and be uprooted every few years?

ETA: looks like that article is from the Boston area. they have surpassed the Lakers with their NBA coverage. Boston is also getting Anthony Davis and Bamba too, so they should be ok for next year

 
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To be honest it's not that hard for me to imagine the Celtics doing something in a sign and trade scenario. Hayward could be moved and they have lots of other assets. They could probably offer the Cavs one of the best sign and trade packages while still having a ton of talent on the roster for Lebron to play with. They'd probably have to move Kyrie as well though (maybe to San Antonio for Kawhi if things don't work out there for the Spurs?).

Not saying it's likely, but if James has his eye on Boston I think it could happen.

 
lol, why would he not visit every team and get all he can. Celtic's fans wish, but they have no cap room that would even make any sense. they already overspent on Heyward, Kyrie, and Horford. Why in the world would Lebron go there.

I know we are in for it for the next month with reports of Lebron going to every team in the NBA, but realistically it is Philly or he stays in Cleveland (which I can not imagine is on the table either). Houston would be great, but I can't imagine a team that arguably would have won the championship if they avoided the CP3 injury is looking to overhaul a good portion of that roster to just bring Lebron in. CP3 is saying he wants the max now because he knows Lebron isn't going there. I guess there could be a surprise team like San Antonio, but he has said the whole time his family and winning will decide this. you think his kids want to move all over the country and be uprooted every few years?

ETA: looks like that article is from the Boston area. they have surpassed the Lakers with their NBA coverage. Boston is also getting Anthony Davis and Bamba too, so they should be ok for next year
OddsShark has HOU as the favorite to get LBJ as of yesterday . . .

Houston Rockets +150
Philadelphia 76ers +300
Cleveland Cavaliers +350
Los Angeles Lakers +400
Golden State Warriors +1600
Los Angeles Clippers +2500
Miami Heat +2500

 
I read the thread title too quickly, and I thought it said "JR Smith executed". but then again, I wasn't particularly surprised by that either.

 
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