2018 College Football Thread: Local man buys some teenage champions a 4 for 4 (1 Viewer)

[Shula-holic]

I didn't consider going, but even people who booked flights months ago said the prices were already insane, and they're even worse now. Even in 2009, you could get tickets cheap at the game in Pasadena, but that was weather related. I took a beating on an extra ticket I got for the playoff game against Ohio State in New Orleans. I sold it on the street for like $65, and the guy who eventually sat in it said he paid the scalper $60 (paid $2-300 through the school). There were people last week already asking for half of face value for the tickets they knew they were getting, and it's comical that others have theirs listed for face.

I don't see how it can continue this way. People have stopped ordering tickets through the school, knowing they can get a better deal in the secondary market.

Most fans of Alabama and Clemson buy these now for resale more than to go.  I've been blown up since Alabama won with people trying to sell their tickets.  Granted it happens with every school, but these two have gone so much lately that it's no longer special.  When that happens, demand just naturally goes down.  Then everyone who has the right to buy gets the bright idea that they'll just buy and resell them and make all this money.  Add in the distance away and cost of flying to and staying in San Francisco, it's a perfect storm.

 

[ZenoRazon]

The huge difference is depth, teams like Alabama/Clemson can come at ya in layers, depth on depth, big stud leaves, enter big stud.  Schools like UCF can't do that. They can get speedy athletes because there are so many of them but finding legit big bad men in gangs not that easy. Unless, you are Alabama, Clemson.

 

[bigmarc27]

Most fans of Alabama and Clemson buy these now for resale more than to go.  I've been blown up since Alabama won with people trying to sell their tickets.  Granted it happens with every school, but these two have gone so much lately that it's no longer special.  When that happens, demand just naturally goes down.  Then everyone who has the right to buy gets the bright idea that they'll just buy and resell them and make all this money.  Add in the distance away and cost of flying to and staying in San Francisco, it's a perfect storm.

It’s not really that it’s no longer special. Trust me, it hasn’t gotten stale. 

I just took 3 weeks off work though and spent a ton of money on Christmas and wedding anniversary.  I don’t feel like throwing down another 5k for the two of us to take off to SF and take off more time when things are picking up from the holiday slumber.  I bought (or attempted to buy) 2 tix to the title game in ATL last year Fromm stubhub. I was told I bought them for $4800 and then a bit later told that they didn’t have them. So... I’ll watch like I do most of the others - standing up in front of the tv because I’m too nervous to sit down.  My dogs will stare and my wife will hang around until it becomes too intense. She can’t handle it at that point / when we won two years ago she went to the bedroom for the final drive and didn’t watch it until after she heard me yelling. 

Also I don’t honestly go to games for the same reason anymore. I used to go to every home game and the big ones were all I thought about all week. Now my favorite games are the ones against weak opponents because I’m mainly there to take in campus for nostalgia and see friends that I went to school with.  They’re the same ones that I have a running chat with during games now, but if we’re at the game vs the Citadel, we can chat and catch up without being stressed. 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/title-game-ticket-prices-plummeting-90-percent-college-football-worried-214530894.html

Tickets shouldn't be almost $2K in the first place.  As bad as attendance is at the bowl games I have no idea how people that do go afford to so.  The ticket prices are stupid in most cases but the flights are ridiculous around the holidays.

 

[ZenoRazon]

I love football,  at all levels.  Breaks my heart I know longer play (last game an alumni game at 38, still had that burst, but after 10yards,yikes)

Anyway.....

Time to dump the bowl games and have an 8 team playoff system.

We never see two teams bought in in these nothing games, hell, Georgia couldn't care less.  And all these guys bailing out because the game means....0.  Who bails out with a title on the line, yep....nobody.

 

[gump]

San Francisco is great. First time my wife and I went we took the train from the airport and got off near some market she wanted to go to. Climbed up the subway stairs to get our first glimpse of being in downtown.... just as 100+ naked people rode by on bicycles. I laughed (probably louder than I should have) while my wife was: 

But yeah, if you're someone who is afraid of catching the gay, it's not the place for you. 

 Not surprising the fanbase Most Likely to Report also like to insult.

Anyway...when i refer to destination, i mean football destination. Bama fans are now going on their 7th Champ trip (not counting Semis)...it's expensive in general.  And not a trip to sight see with the wife.  I also work with dozens who went to the SB in SF...bad experience, super expensive, and difficult to get around.  Nothing to do with the views of downtown of the GG Bridge.

 

[DallasDMac]

We never see two teams bought in in these nothing games, hell, Georgia couldn't care less.  And all these guys bailing out because the game means....0.  Who bails out with a title on the line, yep....nobody.

Totally disagree with this. First round projected picks with millions upon millions of dollars on the line, especially those that know they realistically have no chance (which will likely be 5 of the 8), are not going to risk playing in these games any more than the would a bowl game. There's just way to much money at stake.

 

[mr. furley]

REPLAY OF THE REDBOX BOWL CURRENTLY ON FS2!

REPEAT!!!!

REPLAY OF THE REDBOX BOWL CURRENTLY ON FS2!

dynamite programming decision

 

[Politician Spock]

 Not surprising the fanbase Most Likely to Report also like to insult.

Anyway...when i refer to destination, i mean football destination. Bama fans are now going on their 7th Champ trip (not counting Semis)...it's expensive in general.  And not a trip to sight see with the wife.  I also work with dozens who went to the SB in SF...bad experience, super expensive, and difficult to get around.  Nothing to do with the views of downtown of the GG Bridge.

WTF do mean it's not a football destination?!?!

The bay area has been home to the 49ers, the Raiders, the Stanford Cardinal, the California Golden Bears. the Redbox bowl, and as you pointed out, an occasional Superbowl. Name one other area that has as much football played in it throughout the year as the bay area. Hell, even the most successful Arena Football team ever called it home (San Jose Sabercats). And it's not just football. It's home to two MLB teams, an NHL team, and an NBA team currently dominating the league for years. All of that wouldn't even be remotely possible if sports fans did not LOVE it as a destination for their sport. 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

John Ourand‏Verified account @Ourand_SBJ

Joe Tessitore, Booger McFarland, Jason Witten and Todd McShay will call Monday’s Alabama-Clemson CFP Championship on ESPNews. The “MNF Film Room” will replace the “Coaches Film Room” this year. ($)

Can ESPN screw things up more if they tried to?  I know we get the regular telecast and don't have to watch this crap but the coaches film room is fantastic.   The MNF crew is not.

 

[heckmanm]

REPLAY OF THE REDBOX BOWL CURRENTLY ON FS2!

REPEAT!!!!

REPLAY OF THE REDBOX BOWL CURRENTLY ON FS2!

and here I am stuck at work like a chump

 

[gump]

WTF do mean it's not a football destination?!?!

The bay area has been home to the 49ers, the Raiders, the Stanford Cardinal, the California Golden Bears. the Redbox bowl, and as you pointed out, an occasional Superbowl. Name one other area that has as much football played in it throughout the year as the bay area. Hell, even the most successful Arena Football team ever called it home (San Jose Sabercats). And it's not just football. It's home to two MLB teams, an NHL team, and an NBA team currently dominating the league for years. All of that wouldn't even be remotely possible if sports fans did not LOVE it as a destination for their sport. 

If Patriots fans had an opp to go to 7/10 Super Bowls...and the other locations were LA, Miami, NOLA, Tampa...SF would be at or near the end of the list.

 

[Politician Spock]

If Patriots fans had an opp to go to 7/10 Super Bowls...and the other locations were LA, Miami, NOLA, Tampa...SF would be at or near the end of the list.

That's a completely different argument than saying SF is not a football destination. 

But even that argument is countered by Alabama fans willingness to go Los Angeles for an NC game. 

 

[General Malaise]

Ugh

 

[gump]

That's a completely different argument than saying SF is not a football destination. 

But even that argument is countered by Alabama fans willingness to go Los Angeles for an NC game. 

It’s comparative to the destinations over the last decade...which I covered the differences between.

 

[ZenoRazon]

Totally disagree with this. First round projected picks with millions upon millions of dollars on the line, especially those that know they realistically have no chance (which will likely be 5 of the 8), are not going to risk playing in these games any more than the would a bowl game. There's just way to much money at stake.

With nothing on the line we see a ....hey the kid.....I don't see that with a Championship staring them in the face. The coachs won't be so...hey what's best for the kid..now.  Did we see anyone bail in the final four? A lot different with something to play for.

There does come a time believe it or not when it really isn't all about you.  You have others depending on you.

 

[General Malaise]

I think it matters that Santa Clara is over an hour's drive from San Francisco absent traffic.  It's a horrible location for a stadium for the home teams and a dreadful location for neutral teams.  The idea to park it there was head spinningly stupid.  There were more fans at the Rite-Aid Metamucil Bowl in North Haverbrock than there were at Pac12 Title Game in Santa Clara this year.  

 

 

[Politician Spock]

It’s comparative to the destinations over the last decade...which I covered the differences between.

I appreciate your attempt to change my mind, but you haven't budged it. I agree that no football fan of any team is going to feel exactly the same about every single destination to watch their team in a championship game. As you point out, New England fans would prefer Miami and Tampa to LA and SF due to the issues of flying farther and across 3 time zones. But LA and SF would still successfully sell tickets to New England fans. Just not as easily as Miami and Tampa would. The "prefer" issue existing does not explain why there is such a HUGE drop off in demand by Alabama and Clemson fans for this one specific city. They'll buy tickets if it were in Phoenix. They'll buy tickets if it were in LA. But SF can't sell them? That's not a preference issue. That's a complete avoidance issue. 

 

[gump]

Ugh

More like Yikes.

 

[Shula-holic]

One other driver to keep in mind is the CFP is now split from the old BCS bowls.  In the past if the Fiesta Bowl, for example, held a BCS Championship Game the ticketing was much different.  As a Fiesta Bowl patron, I would buy the Fiesta Bowl's other 3 games in that 3 year cycle and then I'd get that 4th game also with the same exact seats.  The other bowls worked the same way.  They used that title game as a carrot to get you to stay with them as a patron and keep their other events sold and  butts in the seats.  It also gave them a good local core fan base to attend who often would like to go to those other "cheaper" games and then they'd sell the BCS Championship to recoup most of that outlay.  Now that the championship is no longer affiliated with those bowls, they've seen patrons decline and attendance drop off.  I no longer buy any tickets to any of the larger bowls.

It also doesn't help that the west coast just isn't a strong market when it comes to demand for college football.  The Pac 12 is the toughest conference to do any kind of brokering on because the demand is so light.

 

[Shula-holic]

It’s not really that it’s no longer special. Trust me, it hasn’t gotten stale. 

I just took 3 weeks off work though and spent a ton of money on Christmas and wedding anniversary.  I don’t feel like throwing down another 5k for the two of us to take off to SF and take off more time when things are picking up from the holiday slumber.  I bought (or attempted to buy) 2 tix to the title game in ATL last year Fromm stubhub. I was told I bought them for $4800 and then a bit later told that they didn’t have them. So... I’ll watch like I do most of the others - standing up in front of the tv because I’m too nervous to sit down.  My dogs will stare and my wife will hang around until it becomes too intense. She can’t handle it at that point / when we won two years ago she went to the bedroom for the final drive and didn’t watch it until after she heard me yelling. 

Also I don’t honestly go to games for the same reason anymore. I used to go to every home game and the big ones were all I thought about all week. Now my favorite games are the ones against weak opponents because I’m mainly there to take in campus for nostalgia and see friends that I went to school with.  They’re the same ones that I have a running chat with during games now, but if we’re at the game vs the Citadel, we can chat and catch up without being stressed. 

I get that it's not stale, but this is what I'm actually referring to.  For many fans that first time, they make it their Christmas because they've never had that experience.  For a Clemson or Alabama fan, that's not the case this year.  They have other priorities because it's not something they've never experienced.  For Auburn in 2010, UGA in 2017 etc. the fans were going at any cost pretty much.  That changes even on the 2nd one.  Auburn/FSU in 2013 wasn't near what the 2010 game was.  The majority of the people who go to these games fit that pattern.  I know people who go to every Alabama home game who prefer to go see the kickoff game in Dallas now to a CFP title game.  I don't necessarily agree with that sentiment but it is there and is reflected in the demand.

 

[Tom Servo]

I love football,  at all levels.  Breaks my heart I know longer play (last game an alumni game at 38, still had that burst, but after 10yards,yikes)

Is that you, Uncle Rico?

 

[Tom Servo]

I get that it's not stale, but this is what I'm actually referring to.  For many fans that first time, they make it their Christmas because they've never had that experience.  For a Clemson or Alabama fan, that's not the case this year.  They have other priorities because it's not something they've never experienced.  For Auburn in 2010, UGA in 2017 etc. the fans were going at any cost pretty much.  That changes even on the 2nd one.  Auburn/FSU in 2013 wasn't near what the 2010 game was.  The majority of the people who go to these games fit that pattern.  I know people who go to every Alabama home game who prefer to go see the kickoff game in Dallas now to a CFP title game.  I don't necessarily agree with that sentiment but it is there and is reflected in the demand.

I can see that; a kick-off game in Dallas in late summer makes a great vacation/weekend getaway. Early January in a place where you're not sure of the climate/how to get around plus multiple championship games?  Eh, not so much. The former is likely to be much cheaper and can do it most every year whereas the latter...eh, not so much.

 

[belljr]

I think it matters that Santa Clara is over an hour's drive from San Francisco absent traffic.  It's a horrible location for a stadium for the home teams and a dreadful location for neutral teams.  The idea to park it there was head spinningly stupid.  There were more fans at the Rite-Aid Metamucil Bowl in North Haverbrock than there were at Pac12 Title Game in Santa Clara this year.  

 

Yep.   Its good for public transportation.  

At least Great America is across the street

 

[bigmarc27]

So HC rankings just to get some discussion...

Tier 1 - elite curmudgeon

Nick Saban

Tier 2 - elite goober

Dabo Swinney

Tier 3A - Shining bright, still with something to prove

Kirby Smart

Lincoln Riley

Tom Herman

Tier 3B - Not as shiny, but shown more over time

Jimbo Fisher

Dan Mullen

Chris Peterson

Tier 4 - ummmm sure?  They are indeed Head coaches!

Jim Harbaugh

Brian Kelly

Gus Bus

Tier 5 - Solid, but the ceiling is lower than others...

David Shaw

Mike Leech

Gary Patterson

Pat Fitzgerald 

Paul Chryst

James Franklin

Tier 6 - The guys I’d call if I’m a big program looking for a new coach

Dino Babers

Matt Campbell

PJ Fleck

Tier 7 - We’ll see

Mario Cristobal

Willie Taggert

Jeff Brohm

Scott Frost

 

[RUSF18]

I'd take Campbell over pretty much all of tier 5 and some of tier 3/4.

 

[General Malaise]

Tier 7 - We’ll see - 2018 Record/Bowl Game Outcome

Mario Cristobal - 9-4 Won RedBox Bowl in a thriller

Willie Taggert - 5-7 No bowl game invite.  Womp womp

Jeff Brohm - 6-7  The only team that did worse in their bowl game was Houston and Houston fired their coach.  Auburn just scored again.

Scott Frost - 4-8 No bowl game invite.  

One of these things is not like the other ones....

 

[General Malaise]

Harbaugh embarrassed himself on the national stage in back to back games.  Bring him down a peg please.

 

[General Malaise]

Peculiar in their absence:

Jeff Tedford - resurrected a moribund program and is 22-6 in two years with two bowl victories at Fresno State

Bryan Harsin - 52-15 at Boise State 3-1 in Bowl Games (this year's cancelled)

Kyle Whittingham - 120-61 at Utah, 11-2 in Bowl Games (bad loss this year to Pat Fitzgerald)

Ed Orgeron - 25-9 at LSU and beat the hog piss out of the self proclaimed national champs.  I'd take him over Malzahn and I'm guessing FDAS would too.

Bronco Mendenhall - 115-65 in BYU and Virginia.  Just curb stomped an SEC school in a bowl game.  Has turned Virginia around in 3 years' time.  

Rising Stars:

Neal Brown - Troy
Seth Littrell - North Texas
Luke Fickell - Cincy
Willie Fritz - Tulane

 

 

[Capella]

Tier 7 - We’ll see - 2018 Record/Bowl Game Outcome

Mario Cristobal - 9-4 Won RedBox Bowl in a thriller

Willie Taggert - 5-7 No bowl game invite.  Womp womp

Jeff Brohm - 6-7  The only team that did worse in their bowl game was Houston and Houston fired their coach.  Auburn just scored again.

Scott Frost - 4-8 No bowl game invite.  

One of these things is not like the other ones....

Good point. Only Mario lost 4 games in a putrid conference with a future #1 pick at Qb.

 

[Politician Spock]

Harbaugh embarrassed himself on the national stage in back to back games.  Bring him down a peg please.

Obviously a top 25 coach... but it's ridiculous that Michigan is paying him top 5 salary. 

 

[Galileo]

Tier 4 - ummmm sure?  They are indeed Head coaches!

Jim Harbaugh

Brian Kelly

Gus Bus

Tier 5 - Solid, but the ceiling is lower than others...

David Shaw

Mike Leech

Gary Patterson

Pat Fitzgerald 

Paul Chryst

James Franklin

I'd take Gary Patterson over Jim Harbaugh any day of the week and twice on Saturday.   This year was a struggle with 40, yes that is 40, players missing 4 or more games due to injury...20 season ending injuries.  Crazy that they were still competitive.  I think that is a tribute to coaching.  Plus he should get bonus points for having the only signs of a defense in the Big 12.

 

[Zegras11]

Peculiar in their absence:

Jeff Tedford - resurrected a moribund program and is 22-6 in two years with two bowl victories at Fresno State

Bryan Harsin - 52-15 at Boise State 3-1 in Bowl Games (this year's cancelled)

Kyle Whittingham - 120-61 at Utah, 11-2 in Bowl Games (bad loss this year to Pat Fitzgerald)

Ed Orgeron - 25-9 at LSU and beat the hog piss out of the self proclaimed national champs.  I'd take him over Malzahn and I'm guessing FDAS would too.

Bronco Mendenhall - 115-65 in BYU and Virginia.  Just curb stomped an SEC school in a bowl game.  Has turned Virginia around in 3 years' time.  

Rising Stars:

Neal Brown - Troy
Seth Littrell - North Texas
Luke Fickell - Cincy
Willie Fritz - Tulane

 

Thank you for bring up Harsin.   Solid coach.  

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Obviously a top 25 coach... but it's ridiculous that Michigan is paying him top 5 salary. 

I believe that's what's called home field advantage.

 

[Jayded]

Brian Kelly is too high: he belongs in Tier 5. 

I can tell you when ND fans talk about him moving on that a lot of the coaches in Tier 5 are on the preferred short list (Chryst, Shaw, Patterson)

As succinctly as I can express Kelly having met his ceiling:

- ND was 6-0 in bowls after regular seasons of 0 or 1 losses before Kelly (Kelly is 0-3)

- ND was 8-5 overall in bowls as a top 9 team before Kelly. All previous 5 losses were within one score in the 4th quarter (i.e. no blowouts)

- Kelly has taken teams to 4 major bowls (one at Cincy, and all but Rose), going 0-4 with an average losing margin of 25.5. 

 

[DJackson10]

Harbaugh embarrassed himself on the national stage in back to back games.  Bring him down a peg please.

I absolutely love seeing Harbaugh getting embarrassed. Dude thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread. He's one of those guys who couldn't get a job in the SEC but wishes he could make his team an SEC just so he can pound his chest in Bravado fashion. Might be one of the most overrated coaches ever. 

 

[General Malaise]

Do Notre Dame fans forget what it was like under Wittingham, Weiss and Davies? 

 

[Capella]

Do Notre Dame fans forget what it was like under Wittingham, Weiss and Davies? 

Yea I heard today that he’s had more 10-win seasons in his time than ND has had in 17 or 18 years previous combined. Silly to want to run him off there.

They aren’t winning a national title again. They’ll never be able to beat Alabama/Clemson/insert southern school with no academic standards here back to back in the playoffs. 

 

[Jayded]

Do Notre Dame fans forget what it was like under Wittingham, Weiss and Davies? 

Good <> Great. Brian is good, but not great.

Davie, Willingham, and Weis are the outliers in ND history. Kelly is an Elmer Layden v2 in the history books. 

How about....he’s about to have coached as many games at ND as Knute Rockne and has yet to win a meaningful bowl game. 

 

[Jayded]

Yea I heard today that he’s had more 10-win seasons in his time than ND has had in 17 or 18 years previous combined. Silly to want to run him off there.

They aren’t winning a national title again. They’ll never be able to beat Alabama/Clemson/insert southern school with no academic standards here back to back in the playoffs. 

75+% of the five star recruits are academically eligible for ND. Don’t believe the spin in the media. 

Kelly even admitted it whether he realizes it or not. If you take him at his word after the game he said it wasn’t a talent gap. That means it was a coaching gap. We agree. 

 

[belljr]

Brian Kelly took a floundering ND program and made them very relevant again.   I don't if it's talent gap or coaching against the powerhouses that's the shortfall.  But he's done a great job imo but is probably hit his peak

 

[Tecumseh]

So HC rankings just to get some discussion...

Tier 1 - elite curmudgeon

Nick Saban

Tier 2 - elite goober

Dabo Swinney

Tier 3A - Shining bright, still with something to prove

Kirby Smart

Lincoln Riley

Tom Herman

Tier 3B - Not as shiny, but shown more over time

Jimbo Fisher

Dan Mullen

Chris Peterson

Tier 4 - ummmm sure?  They are indeed Head coaches!

Jim Harbaugh

Brian Kelly

Gus Bus

Tier 5 - Solid, but the ceiling is lower than others...

David Shaw

Mike Leech

Gary Patterson

Pat Fitzgerald 

Paul Chryst

James Franklin

Tier 6 - The guys I’d call if I’m a big program looking for a new coach

Dino Babers

Matt Campbell

PJ Fleck

Tier 7 - We’ll see

Mario Cristobal

Willie Taggert

Jeff Brohm

Scott Frost

Not even a "we'll see" for Ryan Day?

 

[General Malaise]

Good <> Great. Brian is good, but not great.

Davie, Willingham, and Weis are the outliers in ND history. Kelly is an Elmer Layden v2 in the history books. 

How about....he’s about to have coached as many games at ND as Knute Rockne and has yet to win a meaningful bowl game. 

You're living in the past, man!

Good luck if you move on. Not sure what else to say.

 

[bigmarc27]

Not even a "we'll see" for Ryan Day?

He’s got to at least coach a game first. I’m assuming he’ll have some success - too much talent not to win games. No way to judge him on things at all right now though. 

We’ll see is more of a “not ready to make a definitive opinion after what I’ve seen so far.”

 

[Mad Cow]

He’s got to at least coach a game first. I’m assuming he’ll have some success - too much talent not to win games. No way to judge him on things at all right now though. 

We’ll see is more of a “not ready to make a definitive opinion after what I’ve seen so far.”

 

[bigmarc27]

I’m not counting the games where he was the substitute while your new ethics professor was suspended. 

 

[AAABatteries]

75+% of the five star recruits are academically eligible for ND. Don’t believe the spin in the media. 

Kelly even admitted it whether he realizes it or not. If you take him at his word after the game he said it wasn’t a talent gap. That means it was a coaching gap. We agree. 

There was an obvious talent gap on the field the other night - ND’s secondary versus those Clemson WRs was in particular one-sided.  I’m not a Kelly fan (I think he’s a jerk) but he’s done a really good job there.  If your  argument is he isn’t elite (Saban, Meyer) then I’d agree and most likely those two would win there but it wouldn’t be so much their coaching as their recruiting ability.  

 

[Capella]

There was an obvious talent gap on the field the other night - ND’s secondary versus those Clemson WRs was in particular one-sided.  I’m not a Kelly fan (I think he’s a jerk) but he’s done a really good job there.  If your  argument is he isn’t elite (Saban, Meyer) then I’d agree and most likely those two would win there but it wouldn’t be so much their coaching as their recruiting ability.  

I don’t think that 75% is right. I swear I read something once that said 30%

 

[bigmarc27]

I’m not sure how much I buy the academic requirements problem at ND. They recruit nationally so even if it’s 30% of 5 stars, they can still go after California 5 stars and Florida 5 stars where other schools cannot.  The bigger problem is the same on Michigan is facing. No one they’re recruiting has ever seen them as elite, and no one is going to want to live in South Bend, Indiana. This isn’t the 60s when one team was on tv every weekend and kids were willing to go there to get that exposure. Everyone is on tv, and elite talent wants to get to the NFL. 

 

[Jayded]

There was an obvious talent gap on the field the other night - ND’s secondary versus those Clemson WRs was in particular one-sided.  I’m not a Kelly fan (I think he’s a jerk) but he’s done a really good job there.  If your  argument is he isn’t elite (Saban, Meyer) then I’d agree and most likely those two would win there but it wouldn’t be so much their coaching as their recruiting ability.  

Somewhat agree. 

Kelly has a type of player he likes that he calls RKG (right kind of guy) that he avoids looking at stars. What this has turned into is an excuse for not attempting to recruit five star players. For some reason he thinks he can coach them up there. We saw a week ago that wasn’t true again. 

If I told you ND and Clemson had the exact same number of 4+5 star players, I bet that’d surprise folks. Clemson has more 5 star players and that’s part of the point of ND fans saying its more scheming and coaching than it is a talent gap to “being back.”

If Kelly doesn’t completely overhaul himself again on his offensive side, he won’t go a step further. His offense is passive, relies on “coach ‘em up” players, and is all finesse despite the roster and skills on his team. Kelly refuses to run in spite of having had 4 top 20 NFL draft picks on his OL across the last 8 years (Zach Martin, Ronnie Stanley, Quenton Nelson, Mike McGlinchey).