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2021-22 NBA Thread: Bill Simmons furiously recording 2.5 hour long pod about how Boston is still better than Golden State (2 Viewers)

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As usual Shaq/Barkley get it Joker reaction


The TNT crew is the best. Old school mentality from 3 ex players. Shaq is right. Don't turn your back on a guy you just cheapshotted and not expect the favor be returned. I Laughed at the Miller reference because a Bulls page I follow brought up that Video about a week ago. Brad is lucky Shaq didn't connect or it may have been the end of Mr Miller's career there. 

Barkley is right about sick and tired of hearing these other people on TV all day. They all act like Morris is some saint and what he didn't wasn't a dirty play by a guy known for dirty play. Morris isn't getting any sympathy from me here. 

Also agree with them if Jokic gets suspended so should Morris. Increase Butler's fine and fine anyone who got off the bench on either side. Honestly Butler may have gotten off easy considering he tried to enter the Den Locker room after the game. 

 
i don’t get the kings bagley situation.  injuries are obvious, but guy has had flashes of double doubles and 3 range.  i mean, harkless is playing 25 useless minutes a night, why not get this some trade value?

 
i don’t get the kings bagley situation.  injuries are obvious, but guy has had flashes of double doubles and 3 range.  i mean, harkless is playing 25 useless minutes a night, why not get this some trade value?
Because he’s a black hole that has a net negative impact on the offense, was one of the worst defensive players in the league last year, and now is a locker room cancer who is refusing to enter games. 

 
Bulls went Showtime tonight and Lavine had a nice 360 dunk to cap it off at the end of the game. Vucevic found his shot tonight and Chicago shot almost 50% from 3 (Seriously did I just watch the old Warriors of Curry/Klay show) beating Doncic and the Mavs. I seriously love this Bulls team. They are so likable and theres a player with a particular skillset for everyone 

 
Reason why I love NBA over college is because the players are good. 
And the rules are better. I coached college basketball at the D1 level and look, I loved our kids and I loved watching them fight to get better and I loved how the team always came first. 

But jesus the awful FT shooting, the consistently mediocre officiating, the inability of guys to make simple moves, and just how damn boring it is when you can pack the paint because very few collegiate players are actually good enough to truly make you pay...AND you have to watch it for an extra 10+ seconds? Ugh. 

 
i don’t get the kings bagley situation.  injuries are obvious, but guy has had flashes of double doubles and 3 range.  i mean, harkless is playing 25 useless minutes a night, why not get this some trade value?
Send him to Sun's for Jalen Jaden Smith whatever the waste of pick from the guy outta Maryland that they've already declined THIRD year option on : 😂

I'd give Bagley long term deal before giving Aytons anything close to max deal.

BTW Frank the Tank goes for 31 tonight. He's always looked good whenever with Suns. Yet another reminder tonight how replaceable Ayton is. Mcgee-Frank the Tank combo goes for 45-15-4 over their 48 minutes .... :eek:

 
i don’t get the kings bagley situation.  injuries are obvious, but guy has had flashes of double doubles and 3 range.  i mean, harkless is playing 25 useless minutes a night, why not get this some trade value?


Bagley's RSE ( Rookie Scale Exception) slotting is like 10-12 million. So a team trading for him would need to give up some kind of positive asset, then have the cap space to carve out room on their cap for him, then give him minutes knowing he's going to be a zero defender, low BBIQ, a ball stopper, a non rim protector ( but has the tool set for that) and no real legitimate consistent three point threat.

If Bagley breaks out for a new team a little, now they have forced themselves into a situation where you have to think about giving a decent sized contract to a mostly unproven player who is seen as lazy and also has character concerns.

Or if that team is interested, they can wait until Sacto doesn't offer Bagley a qualifying offer and sign him as a street free agent for the minimum. The DVE ( Designated Veterans Exception) slotting for Bagley is going to less than 2 million a year, with the NBA itself actually paying a portion of that salary in cash. Since the DVE is an exception, that means if Bagley falters, he can be cut and another player can be signed without be stuck with outgoing cap implications ( the cash payout however is still the teams responsibility)

For example, the Warriors signed Jose Calderon with the DVE years ago to find a ring chaser for their roster. When Matt Barnes became available later, they cut Calderon and signed Barnes. In effect, the Warriors were not trapped by Calderon's contract since it was an "exception" They were not forced to trade off his contract just to make cap room to sign Barnes. They were on the hook for the actual cash payout to Calderon though.

Bagley is cheaper and offers less risk and less commitment as a fringe street free agent.

Double Doubles are not that valuable. In fact, if we are talking NBA bigs and pivots, if they can't defend the rim and can't space the floor, they are a massive liability. There is usually an inverse relationship between heavy rebounding numbers and effective rim protection. Enes Kanter can give you a ton of double doubles. He can camp around the rim on both ends because he has no rim protection responsibilities, because he can't defend the rim. Since he can't space the floor, he clogs the driving lanes that neutralizes his offense since his lead guard can't penetrate as easily. A floor spacer draws out the opponents big. Or forces a mismatch somewhere. Packing Kanter in the paint offensively means his natural cover, like the opposing rim protector, is already in a better position to neutralize any slashers.

Bagley is also low BBIQ. Meaning he can't quarterback the defense. He doesn't rotate well and he's not switchable. When you are dumb, you can't anticipate, and nearly all NBA players simply don't have the ability to recover 100 percent of the time against this level of competition.  Bagley has an interesting overall tool set but he's fundamentally bankrupt. When your basics are bad and it appears you aren't smart enough nor willing enough to work on them, what's the point anymore?

The Kings have come to a point where it's no point to lose more games to quasi develop a guy they know they don't want to keep long term anyway.

Can Bagley be fixed? Maybe a team like the Heat can help him some. But you can't fix stupid. Maybe he can be a situational Stretch 4 at some point ( A long range bench gunner only coming in for specific spots during the game but not really in the core rotation)  Point to note - You could have signed Killian Tillie for like 750K as an undrafted free agent to give you that instead of all the lost opportunity cost for Bagley.

You used to be able to rely on teams like the Kings and Pistons and Charlotte and New York to have front offices who would do stupid trades and bail you out of your personnel messes. Not anymore. Franchises, following the trends, are hiring young guns like Troy Weaver and Brock Aller and it's harder to find stupid teams to absorb your problems in trades.

The core reasons why the Kings desperately want Bagley gone are the exact same reasons no other team wants him right now.

 
Ant with 47 tonight. Wolves lose by double digits. 

I'm 100% convinced Towns has got to go. 17p-12r tonight but it took 19 shots to get there with more 3-attemps than 2. Like everyone says, there is just something missing with KAT. I'm 8-1 this year betting the opponent center over on rebounds against him. He's one of the most talented players I've ever seen, but at the risk of sounding super homer-y, he doesn't have a lick of KG to him. Ant has some of that. Maybe a lot of it. Not sure yet. But I'm taking Edwards over KAT 100% of the time. That dude is the real thing. 

 
i don’t get the kings bagley situation.  injuries are obvious, but guy has had flashes of double doubles and 3 range.  i mean, harkless is playing 25 useless minutes a night, why not get this some trade value?
The Kings organization is not mentally ready to compete at this time.  There's a lot going on. They'll eventually play, but not quite yet.  No, you can't talk to their doctor.  Thanks for asking though.

Remember when Vivek Ranadive came up with this great new strategy to revolutionize the game, one he was all excited about?  Then it turned out to be keeping only 4 players back on defense with a player on the other side of the court (ie, 'cherry picking').  Genius.

 
Taking Bagley over Luca and Trae at 2 is an all-time bad mistake. I guess they would have just ruined those two anyways as well. 

 
Bagley could find a home in Boston.  He wouldn't start over Horford/Williams but he'd be better than Kanter off the bench and maybe could learn a few things under Horford's wing for future seasons.

:coffee:

 
And the rules are better. I coached college basketball at the D1 level and look, I loved our kids and I loved watching them fight to get better and I loved how the team always came first. 

But jesus the awful FT shooting, the consistently mediocre officiating, the inability of guys to make simple moves, and just how damn boring it is when you can pack the paint because very few collegiate players are actually good enough to truly make you pay...AND you have to watch it for an extra 10+ seconds? Ugh. 
this is kind of what i like about college

you can see the dudes giving effort, it's unpredictable, upsets are exciting.  you never know what might happen from game to game.

in the NBA, for the most part, everyone is good enough that uncontested shots are basically automatic. it's like watching an assembly line at times. remarkable, but boring in its predictability.

i like the chance that some college freshman is going to heat check from 48 feet and throw it off the top of the backboard 3 minutes in because it's just such a college kid to think is a good idea.

 
Dan Patrick floating the idea of Scottie Pippen MJ one on one pay per view. I don’t care how over the hill they are I would be all over this. 

 
And the rules are better. I coached college basketball at the D1 level and look, I loved our kids and I loved watching them fight to get better and I loved how the team always came first. 

But jesus the awful FT shooting, the consistently mediocre officiating, the inability of guys to make simple moves, and just how damn boring it is when you can pack the paint because very few collegiate players are actually good enough to truly make you pay...AND you have to watch it for an extra 10+ seconds? Ugh. 


football, too - and it's every level of it. talent, coaching decisions, ref calls, announcing & analysis. unless invested on a personal level - have no alma mater, so its kids/grandkids, etc - i watch sport to see the best play for the highest stakes. i'd rather watch Olympic curling, javelin or frikkin biathlon than college sports, and i dont even give a hoot about the corruption or hypocrisy. and i'd rather watch a fishing recap than the inanely atomized CFP rankings reveal. other than that, i've no opinion on the subject...

 
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Bagley could find a home in Boston.  He wouldn't start over Horford/Williams but he'd be better than Kanter off the bench and maybe could learn a few things under Horford's wing for future seasons.

:coffee:




Headline: Report Exposes Celtics' Dysfunction Under Brad Stevens, 'Tension-Filled' Relationship With Kemba Walker

Joseph Salvador Jun 19, 2021

https://www.si.com/nba/2021/06/19/celtics-locker-room-dysfunctional-brad-stevens-kemba-walker-tension

*****

Much to the chagrin of wikkid, the Celtics don't look like a stable environment to try to rehabilitate a problem child type player.

Tatum should be the leader of that team, but he's not. When put to critical moments, he just tends to fold. Putting a character risk player with a decent sized cap charge on the same bench as human lightning rod Enes Kanter might not go so well.

Teams with an established culture usually have multiple points of stability. The Heat are run by Pat Riley. Erik Spolestra is going nowhere. Udonis Haslem enforces the locker room. Bam and Jimmy Butler enforce the work ethic side of the culture. Lowry has championship experience. The majority of that core has been to the Finals.

If Brad Stevens can't even reign in Tatum and Brown from low efficiency shot jacking, how is he going to handle a stick of dynamite like Marvin Bagley?  This kind of dysfunction is a lot to put on Al Horford alone.

Cue Wikkid to tell all of us how this current team can be an incredible squad without mentioning the context being used is the NBA in 1992.

 
I know that we have inundated this thread with Ben Simmons stuff, and that some of the trade suggestions have been "pie in the sky" but the Boston Fansided site suggesting this trade is beyond the pale:

Celtics Get:

BEN SIMMONS

SETH CURRY

TYRESE MAXEY

2022 1ST ROUND PICK

Sixers Get:

Jaylen Brown

Josh Richardson

 
I know that we have inundated this thread with Ben Simmons stuff, and that some of the trade suggestions have been "pie in the sky" but the Boston Fansided site suggesting this trade is beyond the pale:

Celtics Get:

BEN SIMMONS

SETH CURRY

TYRESE MAXEY

2022 1ST ROUND PICK

Sixers Get:

Jaylen Brown

Josh Richardson
aint nobody who's had Josh Richardson already taking him back...

anybody trades Maxey (at least til he goes famous and rancid) is a dam fool. he got the Booker/JMurray overrated-then-underrated-then-overrated-again Kentucky guard stank all over him.

i been on the "give Tatum what he wants, trade Brown for Beal" train since the Bubble but, even tho i still have doubts Brown can carry a team, i'm more inclined to give Tatum to Beal lately. if Simmons aint mentally ill now, he will be within 18 days up here.

 
I know that we have inundated this thread with Ben Simmons stuff, and that some of the trade suggestions have been "pie in the sky" but the Boston Fansided site suggesting this trade is beyond the pale:

Celtics Get:

BEN SIMMONS

SETH CURRY

TYRESE MAXEY

2022 1ST ROUND PICK

Sixers Get:

Jaylen Brown

Josh Richardson


That's a pretty lopsided trade in favor of the Celtics. Simmons would likely be reflipped in that kind of deal later. Most teams just aren't that hot on Brown. There's a certain "compiler" element to his game. He's the kind of guy who's productive but not show stopping that turns franchises into treadmill teams i.e. too good to get help by becoming a lottery team but never quite good enough to help a team contend.

The teams I'd look at now are OKC, New Orleans, Memphis and Houston. Though I doubt Tilman Fertitta would want to engage in a trade with Morey. Sengun, House Jr, Christopher and Garuba  in some combination would be on the table.

Memphis could headline Brandon Clarke/Desmond Bane and De'Anthony Melton and picks. OKC would be able to offer a boatload of picks. You offer Simmons for Zion just to throw that against a wall and see if it sticks. I doubt it, but you never win by not trying.

There aren't a ton of sexy options here. The big thing is Philly already has one massively overpaid contract in Tobias Harris, they can't afford to also sink with Simmons and his contract as well.

What's the dark horse trade?  Offer Simmons for Klay Thompson. I don't think the Warriors do it, but I believe it should be shocking enough that they'd blink, stop and listen. You make that offer hoping Lacob overrules his front office, in the same way he overruled them on LaMelo Ball and decided to take Wiseman on his own. 75 percent of old Klay Thompson is a massive boost to the Philly roster. He also offers the kind of low maintenance type personality that will be a breath of fresh air after all this drama.

 
this is kind of what i like about college

you can see the dudes giving effort, it's unpredictable, upsets are exciting.  you never know what might happen from game to game.

in the NBA, for the most part, everyone is good enough that uncontested shots are basically automatic. it's like watching an assembly line at times. remarkable, but boring in its predictability.

i like the chance that some college freshman is going to heat check from 48 feet and throw it off the top of the backboard 3 minutes in because it's just such a college kid to think is a good idea.


Plus you got March Madness 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
I know that we have inundated this thread with Ben Simmons stuff, and that some of the trade suggestions have been "pie in the sky" but the Boston Fansided site suggesting this trade is beyond the pale:

Celtics Get:

BEN SIMMONS

SETH CURRY

TYRESE MAXEY

2022 1ST ROUND PICK

Sixers Get:

Jaylen Brown

Josh Richardson


Brown would create the same problems as Simmons does without the fact he actually can shoot a little in he's ball dominate. Sixers need someone who can play off Joel not fight for who gets the ball each possession 

 
Brown would create the same problems as Simmons does without the fact he actually can shoot a little in he's ball dominate. Sixers need someone who can play off Joel not fight for who gets the ball each possession 


If OKC enters that trade, maybe there's something there

OKC - Gets Brown

Boston - Gets Simmons

Philly - Get's Dort Plus Volume Picks/ Neismith / Salary ballast ( but do not surrender Curry nor Maxey)

I don't think Simmons fits the Celtics roster, but I do believe Brad Stevens is an ego maniac and that he could convince himself that shoving all that offensive responsibility on Tatum won't break him ( Simmons, Smart and Time Lord won't exactly set the offense on fire )

Sam Presti just wants value. He's a horse trader and knows he can't actually use all those picks. Brown might be useful for a while and be there to be retraded later.

For Philly, Dort is one of the best value contracts in the game right now. I'm not a huge Neismith guy but he's got a chance to be an overpowered Anthony Morrow type. Those draft picks could end up being gold. Morey is not a great drafter but he's not an incompetent one either. He knows how to see the value in a guy like Maxey or a Melton. It's not sexy but the reality of the situation is the 76ers are not going to get a young star and a massive haul for Simmons at this point.  There comes a time for Morey to see hanging onto Simmons too long is more about his personal ego/vendetta than just what is the best salvage based decision.

While Eastern Conference teams loathe to trade brand name guys to other Eastern teams, the Celtics are dysfunctional enough where this is still punishment for Simmons. Boston fans are mean as ####. If Soft Ben wanted an easier fan environment, riding the Leprechaun Gauntlet won't be it, not by a long shot.

Watching Enes Kanter giving Ben Simmons an elbow shiver on national TV would be hilarious. Kanter is just not going to take that bizarre behavior from Simmons. And since any type of punishment for Kanter would look like backdoor retribution for his recent political statements, Adam Silver would have to walk away.

 
With GRay Allen gifted to the Bucks as the perfect 2 for Giannis to kick it out to, this whole NBA season is a mere formality once Milwaukee gets to whole band on the floor at the same time. The Bucks were capped out with no draft capital and somehow they acquired (with scraps) a dude who is 3rd in the league in made 3's, while hitting them at a 42% clip on 9 attempts per game.

Thanks Memphis!

 
With GRay Allen gifted to the Bucks as the perfect 2 for Giannis to kick it out to, this whole NBA season is a mere formality once Milwaukee gets to whole band on the floor at the same time. The Bucks were capped out with no draft capital and somehow they acquired (with scraps) a dude who is 3rd in the league in made 3's, while hitting them at a 42% clip on 9 attempts per game.

Thanks Memphis!
Absolutely HATE Grayson Allen (as do you, I suspect), but I positively LOVE his fit on this team.  And once Khris, Brook, and Donte come back?  Look out NBA!

 
Absolutely HATE Grayson Allen (as do you, I suspect), but I positively LOVE his fit on this team.  And once Khris, Brook, and Donte come back?  Look out NBA!


That's why he will forever be Gray Allen to me going forward. Eff that Grayson guy. But Gray Allen? He's my dude.

Gray Allen - light it up, light it up!!! (Ray Allen is still my all-time favorite Buck)

Ain't nothing like a 3 point sniper who does it on volume.

 
i hate the fact that i have to root for that cheap shot tripping scum bag but i guess now hes our cheap shot tripping scum bag so i guess i have to take that to the bank brohans

 
Just when you think Paul, Clutch and Ben Simmons couldn't sink to new lows they are now accessing the Sixers of trying to force Ben to play with a mental illness. Paul is gonna end his sports agent career trying to fight this to the death. Is he really sure he wants to die on the Ben Simmons Hill? Clearly there's better things to fight for 

 
DJackson10 said:
Just when you think Paul, Clutch and Ben Simmons couldn't sink to new lows they are now accessing the Sixers of trying to force Ben to play with a mental illness. Paul is gonna end his sports agent career trying to fight this to the death. Is he really sure he wants to die on the Ben Simmons Hill? Clearly there's better things to fight for 
IMO this is way too up in the air to throw around accusations like this. 

 
Wolves with road wins over Milwaukee and the Lakers and a home loss against orlando. Really not helping me. Either be good or suck, just let me know. I know everyone else in here just automatically assumes the Wolves will be awesome, but I'm not convinced. 

 
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