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2021-22 NBA Thread: Bill Simmons furiously recording 2.5 hour long pod about how Boston is still better than Golden State (1 Viewer)

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Leeroy Jenkins said:
Reed and Jordan combined for 9 rebounds last night.  The Heat were crushing with second chance points.  Drummond is so much better than Jordan and had 20 rebound games this season and could protect the rim.  Both games were close at points in the 4th quarter.  Getting some rebounds could have turned the tide.  But we will never know.  Drummond isn't a game changer every day, but he was by far the best option behind Embiid that they ever had, and he did make a difference in games Embiid missed earlier in the year.
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I agree with you--but my point is this.  The Sixers made that deal to give themselves and their MVP caliber franchise player the best shot at a championship.   Embiid was not happy with them holding onto Simmons and the Sixers needed to make a move that gave him the best shot.  Embiid was clearly happy when they made the move for Harden.  Keeping Embiid happy is something that carries a lot of value for the Sixers--but the other posters that are using hindsight and a flukey Embiid injury are completely overlooking that fact. 

Even if they had Curry and Drummond in place of Harden for this series--the Sixers are not going to beat the Miami heat without Embiid.   That's just the reality of the situation.  Curry and Drummond are nice role players--but they are not difference makers that can make up for a top 2-3 MVP candidate missing games agains another elite team.    Let's not overlook the fact that Curry and Drummond made virtually no difference or impact on the Nets.  The Nets made it to the playoffs through the play-in game and then got swept by the Celtics.   The Nets were lacking inside presence before Drummond--and even with him--they didn't get much better.  If you watched the Celtics vs Nets series--what killed the Nets was that they were very unorganized and scattered on offense--especially late in games.  This is because trading Harden away left them in position to where Kyrie and Durant were stuck being not only primary scorers--but primary playmakers--and this hurt them.  Harden would have helped them tremendously in that series. 

My point is this--if the Sixers lose this series--it's not because of that trade.  It's because Embiid got hurt. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Reed and Jordan combined for 9 rebounds last night.  The Heat were crushing with second chance points.  Drummond is so much better than Jordan and had 20 rebound games this season and could protect the rim.  Both games were close at points in the 4th quarter.  Getting some rebounds could have turned the tide.  But we will never know.  Drummond isn't a game changer every day, but he was by far the best option behind Embiid that they ever had, and he did make a difference in games Embiid missed earlier in the year.
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Way too much Drummond talk. As someone pointed out, he played 60 minutes in the BOS series and had a total of 12 rebounds. He sucks

 
Morey dropped the ball on refilling his roster. One could tell at the time that he thought Shake would shake off his slump and had Doc under orders to feature Niang when anyone with eyes knew his slowfoot act would get rubbed off more than a methhead's crank. Cousins, Dragic, bringing Thad Young home, etc woulda been the order if he hadnt beeen so busy patting himself on the back.

 
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And to add - yes Deandre Jordan sucks worse. Like way worse. He should not be playing at all. The Heat have a 149.2 (!!) ORtg when DeAndre Jordan is on the court this series.

 
Imagine talking about Drummond and Jordan. Completely useless in the playoffs. 

I will never understand people talking about him at all as a "valuable piece" in that deal. Or that he's some "big loss" as the crappy replacement at backup center to Embiid. Utterly useless when games matter. His replacement Jordan is and always has been equally so.

 
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Craig_MiamiFL said:
Imagine talking about Drummond and Jordan. Completely useless in the playoffs. 

I will never understand people talking about him at all as a "valuable piece" in that deal. Or that he's some "big loss" as the crappy replacement at backup center to Embiid. Utterly useless when games matter. His replacement Jordan is and always has been equally so.
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he had a value that didnt translate to Brooklyn - the Sixers didnt have to realign when he came in for Embiid, a rare and important thing when you have such a singular player. he couldnt float out like Joel - which is why Cousins would have been an apt replacement - but the substitution pattern kept a flow which they havent had since

 
General Malaise said:
Is that confirmed?  Are you suggesting Portland was offering up CJ and this year's lone 1st rounder for Ben?  Would have been better than giving up CJ and Nance for Josh Hart and a Lucky's Hot Dog, even though I like Ben Simmons about as much as I do a venereal disease.
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Not sure it was confirmed, but there were lots of rumors. 

 
Drummond doesn't change a thing in this series, but imagine for a minute that he was a force. Do we really think the Heat wouldn't adjust? 

I don't know if I am just reading to much into it, but Miami looks as interested in this series as I am. I don't see a sense of urgency when Miami is playing. It looks like they turn it on and off whenever they want because they know without Embiid this is a lottery team. 

 
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wikkidpissah said:
he had a value that didnt translate to Brooklyn - the Sixers didnt have to realign when he came in for Embiid, a rare and important thing when you have such a singular player. he couldnt float out like Joel - which is why Cousins would have been an apt replacement - but the substitution pattern kept a flow which they havent had since
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Don't disagree at all that Cousins has more value anywhere than Drummond/Jordan.

Both Drummond/ Jordan are useless at playoff time. The NBA has adjusted for their like and they're minimum/near minimum types. Why you 100000000% don't pay for anything but the elite types. My heart drops knowing how long this Steven Adams has been getting overpaid 🤣🤣 Finally a team stopped playing him despite being ridiculously overpaid.

 
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Jayrod said:
The only good series in this round is BOS/MIL.  I think GS is pissed off and goes home and puts Memphis in their place to go up 3-1 and may even finish it in 5 in Memphis.

The other 2 series are essentially over already without much hope.  Dallas has a glimmer of hope with Luka and could get 1 game at home, but they are facing the best team in the NBA without a legit #2.  Philly can't win a game without Embiid against the Heat.

Next round though.....GSW/PHX and MIA/(BOS or MIL) will be fantastic.

I think in the Finals we get Suns vs. whoever wins the Bucks/Celtics series, but there is a lot of basketball to be played between now and then.
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Please keep underestimating the Miami Heat.  They are also playing without one of their core 3 players and they are not missing a step.  Embiid not being there is killing the sixers, but you are not even getting full "Playoff Jimmy" in round 2 bc Embiid and Lowry aren't there.  Sucks (even as a heat fan and wanting to win the series) that Embiid got "stupid hurt" bc Doc is an idiot, but even if you even out the Rebounds Miami's bench is killing the sixers and Spo is a much better coach than Doc.

Edit to add: Miami shelved Duncan this series bc of the defensive mismatch.  Not sure if the same thing happens if Embiid (floor spacing for Miami) or Lowry (Oladipo still stitting?) were available.

Also, Imagine getting an all star scorer and defender pop into the rotation in the playoffs (Oladipo)

 
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I was surprised there was no mention of the guys who left the bench for the Warriors getting suspended.

Not that I think they should, I just always think back to that Suns/Spurs series where a few of the Suns were suspended for stepping on the floor after Horry's hard foul.

 
Frostillicus said:
The league is crooked for the Warriors. 
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I mean it is ridiculous that Steve Kerr calls guys out for cheap shots with Draymond ####### Green on his team. He's right up there with Jae Crowder for the league lead in taking cheap shots at people. 

I agree with the tweet some MEM beat guy showed - Draymond plays and Brooks is suspended because Brandon Clarke is better at landing than Gary Payton is.

 
I'm shocked the amount of y'all that keep giving CP3 led teams the benefit of the doubt saying they're favorites after they choke year after year after year.

The man hasn't won anything or proven he knows how to win a title. Maybe he has the pieces this year, Ayton & Book are still in the ascending stage of their careers, so by default it's a better team than last year.

But I'll keep betting the field every single time until they prove me wrong.

 
ShamrockPride said:
I'm shocked the amount of y'all that keep giving CP3 led teams the benefit of the doubt saying they're favorites after they choke year after year after year.

The man hasn't won anything or proven he knows how to win a title. Maybe he has the pieces this year, Ayton & Book are still in the ascending stage of their careers, so by default it's a better team than last year.

But I'll keep betting the field every single time until they prove me wrong.
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This feels different. Good coach, great defense, the pieces all just fit on the Suns.  I think his old teams he was the leader and best player. He might be the leader on this team, but Booker is a better player. 

Also if you take the field against anyone every year you are going to be right a lot more than you are wrong. 

 
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Instinctive said:
I mean it is ridiculous that Steve Kerr calls guys out for cheap shots with Draymond ####### Green on his team. He's right up there with Jae Crowder for the league lead in taking cheap shots at people. 

I agree with the tweet some MEM beat guy showed - Draymond plays and Brooks is suspended because Brandon Clarke is better at landing than Gary Payton is.
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Just because Green is dirty doesn't mean you can't call it out when others do it. 

That might be one of the dumbest tweets ever. Those plays weren't even close to the same thing. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Yea. Terrible over pay. Should have called the bluff or went for a “lesser” player and kept Drummond and Curry. Most people in this thread thought it was too much at the time, but hoped Harden was good enough to be a game changer — after the first 5 games he fell off a cliff. 
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I used to be a big Morey supporter but he's lost it the past few years glueing himself to Harden at any cost.  I'd actually entertain an argument on him being one of the worst.   He left the Rockets a dumpster fire and seems like he's going the same route with the Sixers, handing out 1st round picks like candy.  

 
scoobus said:
I was surprised there was no mention of the guys who left the bench for the Warriors getting suspended.

Not that I think they should, I just always think back to that Suns/Spurs series where a few of the Suns were suspended for stepping on the floor after Horry's hard foul.
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You can leave the bench, just not during an altercation. 
 

Since there was no altercation in this instance, no suspensions. 

 
Instinctive said:
I mean it is ridiculous that Steve Kerr calls guys out for cheap shots with Draymond ####### Green on his team. He's right up there with Jae Crowder for the league lead in taking cheap shots at people. 

I agree with the tweet some MEM beat guy showed - Draymond plays and Brooks is suspended because Brandon Clarke is better at landing than Gary Payton is.
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Seriously?  Have you ever played the game before?  Brooks took a run at an airborn player from behind with zero intent of making a play on the ball and basically ended the guy's season.  He's lucky it is only one game.

 
Navin Johnson said:
Seriously?  Have you ever played the game before?  Brooks took a run at an airborn player from behind with zero intent of making a play on the ball and basically ended the guy's season.  He's lucky it is only one game.
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That's the point. If Payton lands ok there's no suspension. If Clarke gets hurt, Green gets one. Outcome > Process.

Have I played before lmao check your notebook.

 
Jayrod said:
Exactly.

Guys take a run "at an airborn player with zero intent of making a play on the ball" every single night in the NBA season.  Rarely does it result in a broken elbow.

Many of these resulted in an ejection, but few earn another game suspension
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I watched that whole video and the Brooks foul was worse that the vast majority. He combined a handful of dangerous things all at once that we don't see often. He definitely made a run at a defenseless airborne player without trying to actually make a basketball play, but they were also moving at near full speed, and he clobbered him in the head. Most of the time when a player gets taken down in the air, it's much more stationary (similar to Clarke), and rarely is there a wind up like Brooks to the head. 

I thought it was one of the dirtier plays I've seen in a long time that deserved a suspension based strictly on his actions, the outcome just accentuated it.

 
Kev4029 said:
I watched that whole video and the Brooks foul was worse that the vast majority. He combined a handful of dangerous things all at once that we don't see often. He definitely made a run at a defenseless airborne player without trying to actually make a basketball play, but they were also moving at near full speed, and he clobbered him in the head. Most of the time when a player gets taken down in the air, it's much more stationary (similar to Clarke), and rarely is there a wind up like Brooks to the head. 

I thought it was one of the dirtier plays I've seen in a long time that deserved a suspension based strictly on his actions, the outcome just accentuated it.
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Bull####.

I just watched it like 10 more times.  Brooks is trying to prevent an easy bucket and comes hard.  He just misjudged the speed and jumping ability of GP vs his own speed and jumping ability.

The biggest key for me is the vast majority of the contact is to GP's head with the inside of his elbow.  It was a hard swipe but for the ball.  Again, too slow and too low, but it wasn't with intent to injure.

Some of those in the clip I posted were going at the body of the player with zero intent to even play the ball.

He's suspended because Gary broke his arm.  Plain and simple.

 
Jayrod said:
Bull####.

I just watched it like 10 more times.  Brooks is trying to prevent an easy bucket and comes hard.  He just misjudged the speed and jumping ability of GP vs his own speed and jumping ability.

The biggest key for me is the vast majority of the contact is to GP's head with the inside of his elbow.  It was a hard swipe but for the ball.  Again, too slow and too low, but it wasn't with intent to injure.

Some of those in the clip I posted were going at the body of the player with zero intent to even play the ball.

He's suspended because Gary broke his arm.  Plain and simple.
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The thing that makes me believe that it wasn't a legit play for the block was his windup. He brought his arm from his hip to make the swipe. That's something you do when you're trying to take a hard foul, not block a layup.

 
Kev4029 said:
The thing that makes me believe that it wasn't a legit play for the block was his windup. He brought his arm from his hip to make the swipe. That's something you do when you're trying to take a hard foul, not block a layup.
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That "windup" took a fraction of a second.  Watch it in real speed, not slow mo.  That was a very quick play and simply a reaction by Brooks.  He wanted to prevent a potential 3-pt play so he came in hard, like guys do all the time.  The contact point, the awkward landing and the injury were all just bad luck.

Draymond does this kind of crap all the time.

 
Jayrod said:
Bull####.

I just watched it like 10 more times.  Brooks is trying to prevent an easy bucket and comes hard.  He just misjudged the speed and jumping ability of GP vs his own speed and jumping ability.

The biggest key for me is the vast majority of the contact is to GP's head with the inside of his elbow.  It was a hard swipe but for the ball.  Again, too slow and too low, but it wasn't with intent to injure.

Some of those in the clip I posted were going at the body of the player with zero intent to even play the ball.

He's suspended because Gary broke his arm.  Plain and simple.
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I got bored after about 90 seconds, because nothing in the video was similar to the Brooks play.   Were some of them egregiously bad behavior?  Sure.

Was Brooks suspended because GP got hurt? Yeah.

Was the Brooks play ridiculously dangerous?  Yeah.

 
Jayrod said:
That "windup" took a fraction of a second.  Watch it in real speed, not slow mo.  That was a very quick play and simply a reaction by Brooks.  He wanted to prevent a potential 3-pt play so he came in hard, like guys do all the time.  The contact point, the awkward landing and the injury were all just bad luck.

Draymond does this kind of crap all the time.
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His arm is almost vertical before he even leaves the floor and his eyes aren't tracking the ball.  Zero chance he was trying to block the shot.  The contact to the head coupled with the left hand pushing underneath thru GP off his equilibrium.  The bad luck take is laughable.

 
It was a hard foul that I think we all agree was unnecessarily dangerous. Some might call that dirty. Some called Marcus Smart diving on the ground for the ball in the play Steph got hurt on a month or two ago dirty. As someone who actually played at a medium level and then coached at a high level (I was on staff with an NBA team for a year and a Power 5 D1 team for 3 years), I don't think either play was "dirty," personally. I don't think either guy is intending to take someone out., but instead pushing the limits of effort and making an ill-advised attempt on a play where they had already lost that moment.

I think both were plays where the world I want to live in, a guy is more conscious of ability to injure and doesn't do it. BUT...I feel the same about a number of other plays, ESPECIALLY no less than 4 plays Draymond Green has made in his, what, 7 playoff games this season alone. 

Brooks only got suspended because Payton got hurt. If Clarke got hurt, or Jokic got hurt, or Jaxson Hayes got hurt, guys like Green and Crowder would have been suspended too. And that's my issue. Either suspend the act, or don't suspend it. Whether the "victim" was unlucky should be irrelevant.

I'm glad @Jayrod weighed in, and would be interested in @wikkidpissah's take too. 

 
Instinctive said:
It was a hard foul that I think we all agree was unnecessarily dangerous. Some might call that dirty. Some called Marcus Smart diving on the ground for the ball in the play Steph got hurt on a month or two ago dirty. As someone who actually played at a medium level and then coached at a high level (I was on staff with an NBA team for a year and a Power 5 D1 team for 3 years), I don't think either play was "dirty," personally. I don't think either guy is intending to take someone out., but instead pushing the limits of effort and making an ill-advised attempt on a play where they had already lost that moment.

I think both were plays where the world I want to live in, a guy is more conscious of ability to injure and doesn't do it. BUT...I feel the same about a number of other plays, ESPECIALLY no less than 4 plays Draymond Green has made in his, what, 7 playoff games this season alone. 

Brooks only got suspended because Payton got hurt. If Clarke got hurt, or Jokic got hurt, or Jaxson Hayes got hurt, guys like Green and Crowder would have been suspended too. And that's my issue. Either suspend the act, or don't suspend it. Whether the "victim" was unlucky should be irrelevant.

I'm glad @Jayrod weighed in, and would be interested in @wikkidpissah's take too. 
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I agree with all of the above.  Very well stated.

 
ShamrockPride said:
I'm shocked the amount of y'all that keep giving CP3 led teams the benefit of the doubt saying they're favorites after they choke year after year after year.

The man hasn't won anything or proven he knows how to win a title. Maybe he has the pieces this year, Ayton & Book are still in the ascending stage of their careers, so by default it's a better team than last year.

But I'll keep betting the field every single time until they prove me wrong.
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Weren't they in the finals last year?

 
Instinctive said:
It was a hard foul that I think we all agree was unnecessarily dangerous. Some might call that dirty. Some called Marcus Smart diving on the ground for the ball in the play Steph got hurt on a month or two ago dirty. As someone who actually played at a medium level and then coached at a high level (I was on staff with an NBA team for a year and a Power 5 D1 team for 3 years), I don't think either play was "dirty," personally. I don't think either guy is intending to take someone out., but instead pushing the limits of effort and making an ill-advised attempt on a play where they had already lost that moment.

I think both were plays where the world I want to live in, a guy is more conscious of ability to injure and doesn't do it. BUT...I feel the same about a number of other plays, ESPECIALLY no less than 4 plays Draymond Green has made in his, what, 7 playoff games this season alone. 

Brooks only got suspended because Payton got hurt. If Clarke got hurt, or Jokic got hurt, or Jaxson Hayes got hurt, guys like Green and Crowder would have been suspended too. And that's my issue. Either suspend the act, or don't suspend it. Whether the "victim" was unlucky should be irrelevant.

I'm glad @Jayrod weighed in, and would be interested in @wikkidpissah's take too. 
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OK, but ima weigh in on Draymond, Maaaacus & this all at once and then leave the subject of dirty play & thugs & flops for good cuz y'all are nannies.

Draymond's all mouth. He needs to keep an edge because his game is a very hard game to play but the edge makes him a target so he chatters to stay in front of it and it makes him sound a fool. There's really no such thing in this zone world as an enforcer and he aint one cuz he dont like contact, just anger. The anger that keeps his edge. If they had podcasts in the 60s-80s, he'd be doing his with false teeth.

Maaaacus Smaaaat is basketball's Hannibal Lecter - possessed of a hunger which must have its day. I have watched him since he went back for his sophomore year @ OSU to lab some offensive skills and the results had me praying on draft night 2014 "ANYBODY but Smaaaat!!". It took every one of these eight years, most of them filled with mistakes, but he has sought the ability to have an effect on every play since he first stepped onto the parquet floor and, God bless him, he has finally achieved it. I just know he's Bill Russell's favorite player and, therefore, mine because he has taken the mental game and made it physical, converted hunger into strategy, made his body as smart as his mind - the pinnacle of sports achievement.

Case in point, the Nets series. Smaaaat isnt an on-ball defender, simply because his strength is as a disrupter. But he'd just won DPOY yet the Celtics' all-time Nemesis, Kyrie Irving, had put up 30sumn in Game 1. He heard the chatter and said #### it, got tight as a cornrow on Kancerie and didnt let go for two games. Then he returned the favor of Irving tearing his team apart from inside by going back to his disrupter style for Game 4 but threatening to go back and shame Uncle Drew every time he got uppity. Now Kyrie knew what having someone in his head was like - tis a shame his narcissism wont let him learn the lesson of it. A beauty to watch and the best thing about being a Celtics fan since the Leprechaun was leaving it on the floor every night. Watched the game where Curry got hurt and that was ALLLL ball. The play after was much uglier and was the only time in 2022 i saw Maaaacus mad at himself.

Which brings me to Dillon Brooks. Brooks has a lot in common with young Maaaacus Smaaaat - almost NO impulse control. But there's no purpose except to do what comes in his head to do. Does a half-dozen exceptional things every game and is still a net negative to his team cuz he cant not do what he does - chuck, overplay, foul, ignore clock, spacing, play & rules. It bothered him that someone broke free, so he str8up pitbulled him. Thoughtless, almost criminal, he would be elbowed & undercut for a year in the man-NBA for it. Now, he should go on admin leave until Gary Payton returns to a basketball court, THEN serve a suspension. There's people who don't think and people who wont think. The latter simply must be made to think for this to be a world. Dillon Brooks is the latter. nufced

 
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I'm reminded of the 1987 Bucks - Celtics EC semifinal series I posted a few pages back in which (among other crazy events) Sidney Moncrief body-slammed Danny Ainge after a hard foul on a layup in Game 6. Not only was there no ejection, neither player even got a personal foul on the play and both kept playing in the game. At the time, there was a category of foul called "fighting foul" that didn't count as a PF or a technical of any sort (although Moncrief did get to shoot free throws.)  That wasn't even in the top five crazy events of this series, at least one of which was in Game 3 in Milwaukee, when Kevin McHale went into the stands in a scuffle with a Bucks fan behind the Celtics bench.  No discipline whatsoever - McHale had just fouled out of the game so there were no ramifications for him, which was completely normal for us at the time.  I also remember Paul Pressey repeatedly driving the lane and getting clotheslined or body-checked by Parish and McHale. The Celtics reward for winning game 7?  They got to play Rodman, Laimbeer and Mahorn seven more games before losing to the Lakers in the finals.

As great as the current Bucks-Celtics series might end up being, it will never live up to those epic 80s wars.

 
I think if the roles were reversed and Green fouled Brooks or Clarke that way and injured one them he would have been suspended at least a game and maybe more because of his reputation.

As a Warrior and Green fan I would be upset he was out, but when you play stupid games (like fouling a guy hard with no intent to play the ball) you win stupid prizes. 

 
Heard this on the radio the other day.

If you speed in your car and get caught -  you get a ticket.

If you speed in your car and kill someone  - you go to jail. 

The outcome matters. It always does.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Weren't they in the finals last year?
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And they fell short, like his (Chris's) previous 16 seasons. This is more a Chris choke thing I'm discussing. Like I said, maybe this Suns team is the one, but something about Chris, just has never worked out for his teams.

 
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ShamrockPride said:
And they fell short, like his (Chris's) previous 16 seasons. This is more a Chris choke thing I'm discussing. Like I said, maybe this Suns team is the one, but something about Chris, just has never worked out for his teams.
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Hasn't Paul also suffered injuries at the absolute worst possible time for his teams?  

 
Is Joel gonna play tonight?!  Passed concussion protocol. 
 

Woj just said looking likely he will play tonight.  

 
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offdee said:
He was upgraded from Out and they’re saying he’ll warmup and up to him if he feels like he can go.  Insiders saying likely to play 
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Nice.  Thought it was a done deal out for the series. 

I want a healthy Embiid and Middleton on the floor.  We've been waiting all season for these series and it sucks when the guys that matter are out.

 
Miami -1, was -3 this morning

Dallas also -1, interesting, i think they'll win this one

also Bucks up to +750 for championship, i like that #. Celts at +450 too

might be a smart hedge in there

Suns +180 Dubs +330

That's a product of their competition and more certain outcomes than Bucks/Celtics. just rambling, never made my bet but thinking this could be last chance to see fat numbers for eastern conf champs. and just ruling out miami might not be ideal. 

 
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