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2021 Las Vegas Raiders - PLAYOFFS!!!! (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Hankmoody
- Start date
Chaka
Footballguy
He's virtually a Beasley clone so far. Their stats this season are almost identical.
Is Beasley a "stud"? I will accept that he is but I don't see either of these guys being elected All Pro.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Ruggs, Edwards, Renfrow and Waller. Plus Carr and Jacobs/Drake and the line.
If you concede Ruggs/Edwards were better players plus you have the draft capital invested in them plus you want to continue them to develop. Renfrow plays a different role. Waller is one of the best in the league. How many empty sets will you run? If you aren't running empty, who does Zay take all these snaps from to get more opportunity?
I am not saying Zay is the answer. But his lack of recent playing time doesn't automatically mean that he couldn't get snaps because he isn't good enough to see snaps... there is... was... a log jam ahead of him. He is getting his opportunity now. Let's see.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
I haven't done a deep dive into slot WRs. But not wanting another one and Renfrow being a "stud" are two different things. I wouldn't want Beasley for a lot of reasons, but I am 100% confident that they could swap teams and neither would miss a beat.
Of course the term "stud" is open for debate as well.
LawFitz
Footballguy
1st three years in NFL + career avgs...
Yards per Touch -
- Beasley: 8.5, 9.4, 11.4 (career avg: 10.6)
- Renfrow: 12.3, 11.7, 10.5 (career avg: 11.6)
Yards per Target -
- Beasley: 5.3, 6.8, 8.6 (career avg: 7.6)
- Renfrow: 8.5, 8.5, 7.8 (career avg: 8.3)
Beasley is a poor man's Renfrow, who is exiting his prime. Renfrow is a rich man's Beasley who is still a year or two from entering his, health permitting.
Chaka
Footballguy
I'm not sure how we are defining slot WRs but there are a lot of players that run a lot out of the slot.
How do we classify Tyler Boyd or Sterling Shepard? Who is the slot WR in Tampa Bay when Evans, Brown & Godwin are all on the field? If it's none of them how do we feel about Scotty Miller? Is Christian Kirk a slot WR? Can we call Tim Patrick the slot WR in Denver with Jeudy back or is it Jeudy?
Again, I love, love, love Renfrow and wouldn't give him up for most of those guys but stud implies irreplaceable and I don't get that from Renfrow yet.
To be fair I do see Edelman type potential in Renfrow's career arc.
How do we classify Tyler Boyd or Sterling Shepard? Who is the slot WR in Tampa Bay when Evans, Brown & Godwin are all on the field? If it's none of them how do we feel about Scotty Miller? Is Christian Kirk a slot WR? Can we call Tim Patrick the slot WR in Denver with Jeudy back or is it Jeudy?
Again, I love, love, love Renfrow and wouldn't give him up for most of those guys but stud implies irreplaceable and I don't get that from Renfrow yet.
To be fair I do see Edelman type potential in Renfrow's career arc.
Chaka
Footballguy
I am not sure it is entirely fair to compare the entire career arc when Beasley arrived on a team with Dez Bryant, Jason Witten & Demarco Murray all pretty much at their peaks. And he still established himself as a 50+ target guy in his second season.
I do believe Renfrow>Beasley I just think we shouldn't overstate it. Or perhaps I am understating Beasley's talent?
Chaka
Footballguy
Gruden was in no way an incompetent offensive mind but he was intractable which made making in game, or even in season, adjustments more difficult.
LawFitz
Footballguy
I think you are more understating the Welker/Edelman/Beasley/Renfrow role as the uber-reliable and tough underneath chain mover for their respective offenses. I'm sure there are some others that fit this mold, but I can't think of any currently in the NFL, except maybe Sterling Shepard.
I won't say it for Beasley, but Welker, Edelman and now Renfrow are absolutely studs in this role. You said your definition of stud is irreplaceable. In this role, Renfrow is exactly that right now.
Chaka
Footballguy
You're already including Renfrow with Welker & Edelman. That's the part that I think you are reaching on so far. And how can you not include Beasley in that group then?
If it's about moving the chains.
Beasley 19 first downs on 43 catches, Renfrow 17 on 38.
Beasley 43-416-1 with 9.6 y/c
Renfrow 38-399-2, 10.5 y/c
These guys are clones.
Underappreciated clones.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Renfrow is exhibiting indications of being better than all of them. First three seasons of at least 50 touches per season...
(Renfrow with 49 in rookie year, and at 38 through seven games in this, his 3rd yr).
Yards per Touch -
- Beasley: 10.3, 11.1, 10.3 (career avg: 10.6)
- Renfrow: 12.3, 11.7, 10.5 (career avg: 11.6)
- Welker: 10.3, 10.4, 10.4 (career avg: 10.9)
- Edelman: 10.0, 10.5, 11.2 (career avg: 10.7)
Yards per Target -
- Beasley: 7.1, 8.5, 7.7 (career avg: 7.6)
- Renfrow: 8.5, 8.5, 7.8 (career avg: 8.3)
- Welker: 6.9, 8.1, 7.8 (career avg: 7.8)
- Edelman: 7.0, 7.3, 7.0 (career avg: 7.2)
Based on the above, Beasley has been better than I've given him credit. And Renfrow is a stud.
Chaka
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
beasley has some glorious hair.
renfrow is awesome. he's not a "stud wr" he's a straight balling ### thug mofo and i love him. but he's not a "stud wr"
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
i said that i don't think ruggs and edwards are that much better than him. i get the draft capital argument with ruggs, not edwards though. zay is only 26 and was a 2nd round pick. where's his developmental snaps? they're paying him more than any pass catcher not named waller.
2019 targets. waller 117, renfrow 71, williams 64, richard 43, washington 41, jacobs 27, jones 27, moreau 25. not a murderers row of wrs. granted it was only 10 games.
2020 sees agohlor and ruggs enter the picture. not much of a log jam. 20 targets in 16 games. devontae booker had more targets. edwards basically missed the entire season
2021 7 targets so far. 1 since gruden left. log jam in full effect. we'll see if he gets more targets now that ruggs is gone.
i'm not sure why you think i was questioning you. i hope zay is the answer. i like zay. i hope he kills it. but there's something weird about how he doesn't get any targets on the raiders. he had 74 as a rookie and 102 in year 2 in buffalo. 102!
plus he can levitate. awesomeness
tombonneau
Footballguy
Saw that Raiders promoted WR Dillon Stoner from PS. Other than jersey sales, will he have any impact?
Zay is pretty meh any chance this dude ends up starting down the stretch?
Zay is pretty meh any chance this dude ends up starting down the stretch?
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Zay is suppose to be taking Ruggs role on offense so he will see a big increase in snaps. I think they will do more two TE sets too so I suspect more snaps for Moreau but that is more if a guess on my part.
Jobu
Footballguy
It will be interesting to see if the team is able to re-coup bonuses and void guarantees should Arnette get axed....conduct detrimental to the team.
I expect our Raiders to hold strong, kind of emulating Rich's personality/demeanor, hold strong and play lights out tomorrow.
Help ease the pain of mental illness and donate for a good cause at...
https://www.namiwalks.org/participant/371514
I expect our Raiders to hold strong, kind of emulating Rich's personality/demeanor, hold strong and play lights out tomorrow.
Help ease the pain of mental illness and donate for a good cause at...
https://www.namiwalks.org/participant/371514
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Chadstroma
Footballguy
Clark County prosecutors on Friday tacked on additional felony charges DUI resulting in substantial bodily harm, reckless driving resulting in substantial bodily harm and a misdemeanor charge of possession of a firearm while under the influence, according to court documents obtained by the Las Vegas Review Journal.
The football star was previously charged with DUI and reckless driving resulting in death.
The football star was previously charged with DUI and reckless driving resulting in death.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
https://deadspin.com/raiders-problems-piling-up-1848010773
WTF
And the rumor of a big story on the financial irregularities?
Seriously?
WTF
And the rumor of a big story on the financial irregularities?
Seriously?
Thanks for posting. While I feel the family should get as much as possible from Ruggs, and hope they do, I donated because I'm so sickened nd disgusted by this event.
Just cut him and move on from these "high character " guys Gruden was obsessed with drafting.
Jobu
Footballguy
According to Mike Silver of Bally Sports says our Raiders had a zoom meeting with DeSean Jackson....that he could sign as soon as Monday, but nothing has been decided yet.
Take it for what its worth...
Help someone and/or their families suffering from mental illness and donate to a good cause at...
https://www.namiwalks.org/participant/371514
Take it for what its worth...
Help someone and/or their families suffering from mental illness and donate to a good cause at...
https://www.namiwalks.org/participant/371514
Weird so many people donating are hashtagging Raidernation, etc...
If some drunk football player killed my kid I'd f***ing hate that team for eternity and would not want to be reminded of their name ever. Maybe it's just me but I feel it's in poor taste to mention the team name.
Chaka
Footballguy
Wat?
The Raiders didn't kill their child. Why would you ever conflate the two?
Should they hate Corvette too?
Enderdog
Footballguy
Which is greater, the number of times he says the n word or the number of different guns he points at the camera? It's closer that you think.
That was either staged or he just has guns laying around everywhere. And he posted his home address. Moron.
Thanks for drafting all these high character players Mr. Gruden.
Chaka
Footballguy
The Arnette video is interesting. There appears to be a huge piece of missing context, as comments twice about someone being "5 minutes" that is going to "pull up".
It sounds like someone threatened him via social media and he stupidly responded in kind. I am sure his actions violate some kind of cyber bullying or cyber terrorism laws but I would sure like to see whatever post or video that was sent to him that set this off in the first place. Because it sure sounds like he was responding to someone threatening him first.
This may be a non-story.
It sounds like someone threatened him via social media and he stupidly responded in kind. I am sure his actions violate some kind of cyber bullying or cyber terrorism laws but I would sure like to see whatever post or video that was sent to him that set this off in the first place. Because it sure sounds like he was responding to someone threatening him first.
This may be a non-story.
Jobu
Footballguy
Raider fans are generous of the heart as they are of the wallet.
Just like the fans of other teams and other sports.
Help someone and/or their families suffering from mental illness and donate to a good cause at...
https://www.namiwalks.org/participant/371514
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Jobu
Footballguy
Hoping Eagles play inspired ball and put another L to the Chargers record. I may be going to the Raiders/Chargers game at the end of the season. Going to be rocking!
Only hope for a Chiefs loss with Aaron Rodgers not playing is Jordan Love coming out with a chip on his shoulder.
Time to ice the beer and grab the rosary beads.
Help someone and/or their families suffering from mental illness and donate to a good cause at...
https://www.namiwalks.org/participant/371514
Only hope for a Chiefs loss with Aaron Rodgers not playing is Jordan Love coming out with a chip on his shoulder.
Time to ice the beer and grab the rosary beads.
Help someone and/or their families suffering from mental illness and donate to a good cause at...
https://www.namiwalks.org/participant/371514
ZADO
Footballguy
How much can one team take ?
They played like a team with the weight of the world on their shoulders who travelled across Country ,and STILL made it competitive.
While i hate the loss as a fan i AM happy it wasnt a blowout with all things considered ,i see a much better effort next week after more time passes.
They played like a team with the weight of the world on their shoulders who travelled across Country ,and STILL made it competitive.
While i hate the loss as a fan i AM happy it wasnt a blowout with all things considered ,i see a much better effort next week after more time passes.
ICON211
Footballguy
I saw a team that just didn't execute in the red zone and had horrible turnovers. Jacobs ran strong and the D played with good energy. I am not giving them credit because they didn't get blown out by the freakin Giants.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
carr played AWFUL. i mean really really bad. overlook the 3 turnovers, he still played terribly. he's back to throwing behind waller on EVERY throw. just awful SMDH the team looked really good outside of carr.
zay got 4 targets i think. 1 catch, 1 int and 2 desperation throws out of bounds, in the red zone.
zay got 4 targets i think. 1 catch, 1 int and 2 desperation throws out of bounds, in the red zone.
ZADO
Footballguy
when i say the weight of the world on its shoulders i actually mean Carr ,seeing hes the leader of the team its on him
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
That may have been Carr's all time worst game, if not then it definitely was among the bottom of his games. Several missed throws, overall not connecting percentage wise, 2 INT's and 1 fumble. How much does all the drama weigh on him and cause this and how much was it just having a bad day? None of us will be able to say.
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DocHolliday
Footballguy
Carr is better than this. Ruggs had to be a huge reason for Carr’s struggles. It was bound to happen. The team lost a teammate in a horrific manner. This season isn’t over but no matter what happens, the future is bright.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
The Las Vegas Raiders are getting a much-needed reinforcement to their receiving corps via free agency.
DeSean Jackson is expected to sign with the Raiders, NFL Network's Mike Garafolo reported Sunday. Jackson will receive more than the veteran minimum in his contract, Garafolo added.
Jackson became a free agent this week when the Rams failed to find a trade partner for a swap involving Jackson, who signed with Los Angeles in the offseason but didn't see enough playing time to continue with the team. Both Jackson and L.A. agreed to seek a trade for the veteran deep threat, and the Rams released him once they passed the league's trade deadline without a deal.
Las Vegas took the field for the first time without the recently released Henry Ruggs III on Sunday and struggled to move the ball through the air without a big-play option available for deep pass attempts. Ruggs III is currently facing four felony counts and a misdemeanor for his role in a traffic collision that resulted in the death of a young woman. The Raiders released him Tuesday following the fatal collision.
DeSean Jackson is expected to sign with the Raiders, NFL Network's Mike Garafolo reported Sunday. Jackson will receive more than the veteran minimum in his contract, Garafolo added.
Jackson became a free agent this week when the Rams failed to find a trade partner for a swap involving Jackson, who signed with Los Angeles in the offseason but didn't see enough playing time to continue with the team. Both Jackson and L.A. agreed to seek a trade for the veteran deep threat, and the Rams released him once they passed the league's trade deadline without a deal.
Las Vegas took the field for the first time without the recently released Henry Ruggs III on Sunday and struggled to move the ball through the air without a big-play option available for deep pass attempts. Ruggs III is currently facing four felony counts and a misdemeanor for his role in a traffic collision that resulted in the death of a young woman. The Raiders released him Tuesday following the fatal collision.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Yea, I think Carr has a hig heart and he truly loves his teammates. I think that Gruden was rough but Ruggs is rough on a whole different level. I mean, the only question now is how long will he be in prison and how much money will he be left with after getting sued. My heart has hurt for the young woman and Ruggs too as a kid who had such a huge bright future ahead of him that is gone now... maybe he can reinvent himself and do well on the back end of all of this. To me, the decisions he made were absolutely horrible and resulted in the loss of life, which is inexcusable, but that doesn't mean he wasn't/isn't a good kid. Anyways... if my heart has ached over all of this over the week.... I can't imagine how his teammates.... who I have said seem like a very close group of guys.... have felt like.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
ruggs' absence was not the reason carr couldn't throw the ball well. come on.
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