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2021 New York football Giants (3 Viewers)

monk said:
In desperate need of depth along the offensive line, the New York Giants made a trade on Monday. 

The Giants have sent a 2023 sixth-round draft pick to the Houston Texans in exchange for cornerback Keion Crossen.

Crossen, 25, was a seventh-round pick of the New England Patriots in the 2018 NFL draft. After one season in Foxborough, where he was a special team standout under Joe Judge, 

WTF? C'mon???  Gianst special teams sucked last year after investing an unreasonable amount of resources in STs

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2021/08/16/new-york-giants-acquire-keion-crossen-trade-houston-texans-draft-pick/
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I get that it's not the one and only unit you're interested in, but you're upset that they are trying to improve a unit that you say sucked last year? Another weird take, IMHO.

 
jhib said:
I get that it's not the one and only unit you're interested in, but you're upset that they are trying to improve a unit that you say sucked last year? Another weird take, IMHO.
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Well it's certainly not as bad as their Oline and probably the easiest position in the NFL to fill.

To give up resources and to cut legitimate talent for 1 dimesnsional players that mght end up with a handful of tackles at the end of the season is just ###  backwards. theyve already invested a ton in DBs and Special teams ... they re not good at it !!!!!! 

You think this guy who might end up with 5 special teams tackles at the end of the season is as valuable as a starting guard or center?

 
monk said:
Well it's certainly not as bad as their Oline and probably the easiest position in the NFL to fill.

To give up resources and to cut legitimate talent for 1 dimesnsional players that mght end up with a handful of tackles at the end of the season is just ###  backwards. theyve already invested a ton in DBs and Special teams ... they re not good at it !!!!!! 

You think this guy who might end up with 5 special teams tackles at the end of the season is as valuable as a starting guard or center?
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They are not getting a starting guard or center who's any better than who they've got (and that they can afford) for a 2023 6th round pick, so the answer to that question is pointless. And as it doesn't have any effect at all on any potential OL move, it's silly to knock the trade just because it was for ST.

Last year's special teams actually showed evidence of how one guy can make a big difference on special teams, even if you wouldn't necessarily know it just by looking at individual stats. Cody Core was one of the leaders of a unit that was a strength the year before, and it hurt them big-time when he went down last August and was lost for the season.  

 
Jordan Raanan
✔
@JordanRaanan
CB Isaac Yiadom is being traded to the Green Bay Packers, per sources. Yiadom was acquired in a trade with the Denver Broncos before the start of last season. Started 10 games for the Giants.

 
Yenrub said:
Traded for CB Josh Jackson
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I like this ... He was highly rated coming out of in the draft ... Josh Norman comp on NFL draft tracker

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/josh-jackson/32004a41-4328-0902-e4c5-2abd75fbeaef

PFF

  • 2018 - Very good rookie year (PFF Overall 59.1 Coverage 64.0) 
  • 2019 - Soph Slump? Injuries? Looks like he played pretty well but a lot less (PFF Overall 60.4 Coverage 59.6) 
  • 2020 - Covid Season  (PFF Overall 52 Coverage 51.7) 
Maybe a change of scenery, new system and coaching will help 

 
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Regarding Toney ... 

Matt Harmon of Reception Perception was on big blue bantor and said that the Giants are basically starting at square 1 with Toney as a technical route runner.

Toney tested 13th percentile succes rate against man coverage and 20th percentile against press coverage which according to Harmon was stone worst amongst college prospects. 

https://receptionperception.com/

 
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IMO offensive line and DB are positions where you can never have too many good players.  Even backup CBs and safeties play a significant amount of time without having injuries to players ahead of them on the depth chart.  I don't know much about Jackson vs. Yiadom, though.  Is Jackson an upgrade?

 
“I think all five of the starters, plus a couple of the backups, are good, quality players,” Mara said Tuesday. “I know our coaching staff feels good about them. Obviously, there’s going to be skepticism about them until they do it on the field, and they start producing some complete games and some wins."

Mara on our OL/

 
Yenrub said:
Pat Leonard seems to think the Giants are going to make a trade for an OL

https://twitter.com/pleonardnydn/status/1428157112937484293?s=21
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From my vantage point, Judge, Gettleman and Mara all said some version of: “We know we need to make a move” in the last few days … so I think it’s coming.
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He might end up being right in this case, but Leonard is the last person I'd trust to interpret anything said by someone involved with the Giants.

 
Kyle Rudolph may be PUP'd and miss first 6 weeks.

link

......."The Giants agreed to sign Rudolph to a two-year $12 million contract this offseason after the veteran missed the final four games of the 2020 season with a foot injury. Contracts are finalized after a player passes a physical. When the Giants conducted their physical, they acquired more information on Rudolph’s foot injury. They had the chance to alter the contract but chose not to and signed Rudolph to the original deal.

“We honored the agreement because our doctors were confident Kyle would be fine following the procedure.” – Giants GM Dave Gettleman on Tuesday via NY Post"........

 
kodycutter said:
Kyle Rudolph may be PUP'd and miss first 6 weeks.

link

......."The Giants agreed to sign Rudolph to a two-year $12 million contract this offseason after the veteran missed the final four games of the 2020 season with a foot injury. Contracts are finalized after a player passes a physical. When the Giants conducted their physical, they acquired more information on Rudolph’s foot injury. They had the chance to alter the contract but chose not to and signed Rudolph to the original deal.

“We honored the agreement because our doctors were confident Kyle would be fine following the procedure.” – Giants GM Dave Gettleman on Tuesday via NY Post"........
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Good ol' Gettleman ...can't wait until he's gone

 
I know it's preseason and the Starters havent even played yet but I have to say I love the way the preseason is being run with the Team practices with the Browns and now pats coming up.  The 2nd and 3rd teams have looked well coached and competitive. 

Some fairly unexpected players have stood out and  looked real encoraging ... i.e Stills,  Ximines, Coughlin, R.Wiliams & CJ Board to name a few. The 2nd team Oline has actually held it's own which is real encouraging. 

I cant wait to see The starters ... the thought of seeing a healthy Saquan playing is unreal.

I'm going to the Giants Pats game on Sunday and happy to hear they plan to play most of the starters and treating it almost like a regular season games

 
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kodycutter said:
Kyle Rudolph may be PUP'd and miss first 6 weeks.

link

......."The Giants agreed to sign Rudolph to a two-year $12 million contract this offseason after the veteran missed the final four games of the 2020 season with a foot injury. Contracts are finalized after a player passes a physical. When the Giants conducted their physical, they acquired more information on Rudolph’s foot injury. They had the chance to alter the contract but chose not to and signed Rudolph to the original deal.

“We honored the agreement because our doctors were confident Kyle would be fine following the procedure.” – Giants GM Dave Gettleman on Tuesday via NY Post"........
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Rudolph was running routes and catching passes from DJ today in warmups before the game

 
monk said:
I know it's preseason and the Starters havent even played yet but I have to say I love the way the preseason is being run with the Team practices with the Browns and now pats coming up.  The 2nd and 3rd teams have looked well coached and competative. 

Some fairly unexpected players have stood out and  looked real encoraging ... i.e Stills,  Ximines, Coughlin, R.Wiliams & CJ Board to name a few. The 2nd team Oline has actually held it's own which is real encouraging. 

I cant wait to see The starters ... the thought of seeing a healthy Saquan playing is unreal. Going to the Giants Pats game on Sunday and happy to hear they plan to play most of the starters
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It seems a little strange to me that Jones hasn’t had any preseason game action yet considering that among the excuses made for his less than stellar play last year was lack of a preseason.

Anyway I suspect that most of the starters will see action next week against the Patriots. They might even play into the 3rd quarter.

I agree that the 2nd OL looked decent today. Sills looked good but I wonder where he fits in since he plays zero special teams.

 
Here is an interesting blurb I noticed in this article from Dan Dugan 

The most encouraging development of the week was the pressure generated by the Giants’ edge rushers against the best offensive line in the league. Lorenzo Carter looks all the way back from a torn Achilles despite missing time early in camp with a minor calf injury. Trent Harris has flown under the radar, but he continued a strong camp with productive practices in Cleveland.

The Giants had a lot of success against left tackle Jedrick Wills, who was the 10th pick in the 2020 draft. But there was steady penetration all over the line, which was promising against such a strong unit.
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The Browns have the #1 ranked OL going into the season (per PFF)

They will get another good test this week because the Patriots are ranked #3 

 
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kodycutter said:
lol, quality opponents there  :shrug:

edit: you like engram, i don't.   hope he performs like you do.
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I see the goal post were moved from “i'd love to see him make plays that change games....in our favor though” to “oh those plays that helped the Giants came against bad teams, so they don’t count” while I was sleeping.

Does he need to improve? Of course, he does, but he has been a good player for the Giants. He also needs to stay healthy.

 
Engram doesn't block particularly well and made a lot of mistakes last year so IMO it's fair to criticize him and expect better.  I also think he's made some plays during his career and deserves a chance to turn it around this year, but I'd like to not only see improvements from the mistakes but also for him to start becoming a more complete TE and improve his blocking.

 
Yenrub said:
It seems a little strange to me that Jones hasn’t had any preseason game action yet considering that among the excuses made for his less than stellar play last year was lack of a preseason.

Anyway I suspect that most of the starters will see action next week against the Patriots. They might even play into the 3rd quarter.

I agree that the 2nd OL looked decent today. Sills looked good but I wonder where he fits in since he plays zero special teams.
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This. I mean... for a guy who needs as much camp and reps as possible, he's had no preseason game reps. It's a bit mind-boggling to me; I've stated ad nauseum Jones biggest hurdle is recognizing pressure (legit seeing it coming) and reacting properly (protect the ball/dump off/not panic like a scared chicken) and preseason is a good way too see his results. Yet they're sitting Jones and that worries me immensely.

 
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Yenrub said:
It seems a little strange to me that Jones hasn’t had any preseason game action yet considering that among the excuses made for his less than stellar play last year was lack of a preseason.
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But it wasn't just the lack of preseason games last year, but the lack of joint practices as well (compounding the fact that he was playing in a new system).  I think a lot of coaches just value those joint practices much more than preseason games, and it sounded like both the Browns and Giants coaches were satisfied with what they accomplished during the week.

I imagine Jones got a lot more out of the joint practice than he would have facing a 2nd or 3rd team defense in the game.

 
jhib said:
But it wasn't just the lack of preseason games last year, but the lack of joint practices as well (compounding the fact that he was playing in a new system).  I think a lot of coaches just value those joint practices much more than preseason games, and it sounded like both the Browns and Giants coaches were satisfied with what they accomplished during the week.

I imagine Jones got a lot more out of the joint practice than he would have facing a 2nd or 3rd team defense in the game.
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That’s why I said lack of preseason was among the excuses (plural) not the only excuse.

I agree that the real training camp, 2nd year in the system and joint practices should help. However as @The Frankman pointed out, Jones biggest issues seem to come when he is under pressure. Joint practices are great an all but there is no real pressure in those practices because the QB’s are all still wearing the red don’t touch me jerseys. It's relatively easy to look good and feel comfortable when you know you are not going to get hit.  

 
If anybody has a link to Giants targets projections from a Giants insider source, that would be awesome.  I can't find anything...probably because it's a mess.

 
TripItUp said:
Does anybody have a good read on Giants WR targets breakdown?
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Honestly, I don’t think anyone can give you a good answer. Three of the new pass catchers that they brought in (Golladay, Toney & Rudolph) have barely practiced so they haven’t had a chance to build any type of chemistry during training camp.

Obviously, they are paying Golladay #1 WR money so in theory he should get the most targets but again he hasn’t practiced much.

Shepard & Engram are both having really good camps. Shepard is Jones’ “security blanket”. I wouldn’t be surprised if both those guys outperform their fantasy ADP. Slayton has been solid this camp as well, he too has a good rapport with Jones.

 
Yenrub said:
14 hours ago, jhib said:
But it wasn't just the lack of preseason games last year, but the lack of joint practices as well (compounding the fact that he was playing in a new system).  I think a lot of coaches just value those joint practices much more than preseason games, and it sounded like both the Browns and Giants coaches were satisfied with what they accomplished during the week.

I imagine Jones got a lot more out of the joint practice than he would have facing a 2nd or 3rd team defense in the game.
Expand  
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That’s why I said lack of preseason was among the excuses (plural) not the only excuse.

I agree that the real training camp, 2nd year in the system and joint practices should help. However as @The Frankman pointed out, Jones biggest issues seem to come when he is under pressure. Joint practices are great an all but there is no real pressure in those practices because the QB’s are all still wearing the red don’t touch me jerseys. It's relatively easy to look good and feel comfortable when you know you are not going to get hit.  
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I just got the feeling that when (most?) people used the "lack of preseason" as an excuse last year, they were talking the whole picture and not just the preseason games.  So it didn't seem as confusing to me that they'd intentionally lack preseason game experience for him this year given that the rest of preseason is more normal. 

But I get your point about more natural game pressure.  Hopefully it all works out!

 
I would have liked to have seen Jones have some preseason games. Barkley also. Really hard to like anyone in this offense going in blind. 

 
jhib said:
I just got the feeling that when (most?) people used the "lack of preseason" as an excuse last year, they were talking the whole picture and not just the preseason games.  So it didn't seem as confusing to me that they'd intentionally lack preseason game experience for him this year given that the rest of preseason is more normal. 

But I get your point about more natural game pressure.  Hopefully it all works out!
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I’m a Giants fan so I hope it works out too. I’m tired of watching them lose.

I would love to lift my personal boycott on buying any new Giants merchandise but I refuse to spend any money on anything until they put a winning product on the field.  

 
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Jones is going to play at least the 1st half and posibly the 3rd Q against the Pats 

It would have been foolish to put Jones on the field behind that Oline with Zero starters around him. He literally would have been the only offensive starter on the field for the Giants  ... what good could possibly come out of that???

 
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monk said:
Jones is going to play at least the 1st half and posibly the 3rd Q against the Pats 

It would have been foolish to put Jones on the field behind that Oline with Zero starters around him. He literally would have been the only offensive starter on the field for the Giants  ... what good could possibly come out of that???
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:shrug: who said anything about putting him out there without the starting OL? Haven't you been telling us all how bad they are? It's not like they didn't need the work too

 
Yenrub said:
:shrug: who said anything about putting him out there without the starting OL? Haven't you been telling us all how bad they are? It's not like they didn't need the work too
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They cant afford to lose an Olineman in a preseason game .... That's why they didnt play them. They'd have to suit up their coaches in the regular season if they lost anyone else

 
monk said:
They cant afford to lose an Olineman in a preseason game .... That's why they didnt play them. They'd have to suit up their coaches in the regular season if they lost anyone else
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Didn't you just post that they were going to play in the next preseason game?

 
Yenrub said:
Didn't you just post that they were going to play in the next preseason game?
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Yes against other starters in order to be prepared for the season which is a week after. And they will have to play in the regular season games too.  it's a little different then puttingthem in against 2nd and 3rd team and risking injury. 

Yo do realize the more games they play the higher the risk of injury right?

 
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monk said:
Yes against other starters in order to be prepared for the season which is a week after. And they will have to play in the regular season games too.  it's a little different then puttingthem in against 2nd and 3rd team and risking injury. 

Yo do realize the more games they play the higher the risk of injury right?
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This is you

They cant afford to lose an Olineman in a preseason game
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So which one is it? 

 
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